Polyamory and Christianity

...AA. This involves a 12 step programme where you search out a relationship with "A God of your understanding'. I have searched all my life for such a relationship through both christianity and more new age philosophies but never found it to the extent I have through AA.

This is interesting. Are you willing to say more?

I had a fascinating conversation with an atheist a week or two ago, in which he and I understood each other on a point of faith for the first time. I've been working on finding a way to understand at least a little the atheist approach for over ten years now, and finally got somewhere in this conversation.

So now I'm all interested in hearing about other people's new experiences.

The further I get into the programme the more difficulty I seem to have accepting being in a committed relationship with someone polyamorous.

Why do you think that is? Is the programme freeing you to express what you want to express? Or is the programme leading you to express what the programme wants you to express? Is this something you want to talk about?

My daughter, who is very christian tells me this is because the concept of polyamory is not of God (her God anyway).

I'm very Christian too. I'm also very poly. Someone once asked me to reconcile my open marriage with Scripture -- I had written about open marriage before I learened the word polyamory. May I email my response to you?


A God of my understanding is impossible to explain but does not have such prejudices. He does however want me to be happy and I'm wondering if the way this is manifesting is an indication that this relationship is perhaps not the best platform for my peace and happiness moving forward.

Are there more issues than just polyamory involved? What about security, companionship, and simplicity? Are they missing too?

I have these thoughts on one hand and on the other I think that this is just me battling my ego.

Jacob wrestled with the angel. Judaism, I'm told, has a tradition of wrestling with the Scriptures to figure out what them mean. Battling is part of deep soul searching.

Jasmine
 
I had a fascinating conversation with an atheist a week or two ago, in which he and I understood each other on a point of faith for the first time. I've been working on finding a way to understand at least a little the atheist approach for over ten years now, and finally got somewhere in this conversation.
I am kind of interested in how this went. It may be off topic for this thread. If so, maybe a new thread? But no pressure. I am just curious.
 
Thanks for taking some much interest in this JG. Yes, please email me your response I think it will be very helpful. There is definitely something very deep here for me, even reading your response had in tears and I'm typing through tears.

There is definitely a connection in my head between polyamory and God not co-habiting comfortably. It isn't to do with sin, or historical rules but more that it seems to be one of what I'll call "The big Suggstions" that most people who live their lives from a Christian platform adhere to. Other "Big Suggestions" are things like, "As you sow shall you reap"; the whole thing about idols and money; "Be as little children" etc. I believe in these premises because I have observed them work out well more often than not. I've noticed that when I apply them to my life it goes much better. Remember this is purely my philosophy.

As I've said I'm also open to the possibility that I am just battling my own ego. I'm using the principles of AA to deal with it, which is handing over my will to a power greater than myself. This is another "Big Suggestion" that I have seen works out best for me. I'm trying not to project out too far and just live each day to the best of my ability and leave the rest up to God. This seems to be working well.


"Are there more issues than just polyamory involved? What about security, companionship, and simplicity? Are they missing too?" - No, I feel very secure in my relationship, we live simply and are best, best friends. My problems are around depth of relationship and feeling. There is something disturbing for me in being totally invested emotionally when my partner is not because he also loves someone else.
 
There is definitely a connection in my head between polyamory and God not co-habiting comfortably. It isn't to do with sin, or historical rules but more that it seems to be one of what I'll call "The big Suggstions" that most people who live their lives from a Christian platform adhere to. Other "Big Suggestions" are things like, "As you sow shall you reap"; the whole thing about idols and money;

Remember, the "Big Suggestions" are man's rules/suggestions not God's. If God does not strickly forbid it, it's not wrong. Man has a habit of feeling the need for more rules and regulations in order to "feel" holy or righteous and therefore invents his own version of what he thinks God SHOULD have written.

"Be as little children" etc. I believe in these premises because I have observed them work out well more often than not. I've noticed that when I apply them to my life it goes much better. Remember this is purely my philosophy.

Children don't have the same hang ups about how many people or even who they are allowed to love like as most of us adults have.

Check out Romans 14, read it, then substitue other things for "eat". The verse is not about food, but any man made ritual or restriction. I keep coming back to this verse in my own life when I find myself judging other Christians and their beliefs.
 
Thanks SN. Surprisingly even having this discussion on the forum is upsetting me again. I'll go and dig my bible out of the basement and check out Romans. I bought a very large bible a number of years ago, which I keep trying to get rid of and it keeps coming back to me. I shifted it down to the basement when I got into trouble for randomly pulling out quotes. I gave it to my mother when I really went off it but she kept it knowing that I would one day want it back, and I did. I think I have a really confused and difficult relationship with Christianity and the bible.

The "be as little children" I hadn't thought of in relation to polyamory, because seriously committed adult love relationships aren't something that a child experiences. I think of it more in their ability to live in the present.
 
I'll go and dig my bible out of the basement and check out Romans.

Google it - way faster and you can even switch between like a 100 different versions.

I think I have a really confused and difficult relationship with Christianity and the bible.

Funny thing, when I was trying to find excuses to abandon Christianity and the God of the Bible, I spent alot of time reading the Bible. I came to quite a few conclusions for myself that aren't real popular with most Christians and especially my mother. The real funny thing is that my brother and I came to nearly the same conclusions and views independently.

The "be as little children" I hadn't thought of in relation to polyamory, because seriously committed adult love relationships aren't something that a child experiences. I think of it more in their ability to live in the present.

I wasn't strictly refering to Poly either, but they are more open to love in all forms and can also return it (they don't care about color, race, religon, gender, if you walk with a limp, etc), they are also open to actually listening and learning to what God wants them to hear instead of what man thinks God wants.
 
There is something lovely about the thin delicate pages of a big old bible. Mine has all these guides and commentaries in it and when I opened Romans one of the first things that struck me was a commentary on adultery. I find it really, really hard to get past this when it comes to polyamory and Christianity.
 
. . . one of the first things that struck me was a commentary on adultery. I find it really, really hard to get past this when it comes to polyamory and Christianity.
I wouldn't ever see polyamory, with its emphasis on honesty, communication, and openness, and being so much (much!) more than sex, as anything even remotely like adultery! The word "adultery" just makes me think of illicit, secret sexual liaisons, to satisfy very base desires and coveting what someone else has.

Christianity is supposed to be about love, and so is polyamory. Perhaps you're having a problem with the sexual aspect of multiple relationships? I have heard that the Torah has no pronouncement against adultery, I wonder if that is true. The fact remains that there are so many contradictions in the Bible, and its writings can be interpreted numerous ways -- it is easy to get confused and twist yourself into knots trying to understand it. My mother used to torture herself over specific verses trying to decipher their meanings and how to apply them to her life -- to the point where our pastor actually advised her to stop reading the Bible!

I would suggest that this is the source of your unrest, and I have my doubts that the Bible can help you here:
My problems are around depth of relationship and feeling. There is something disturbing for me in being totally invested emotionally when my partner is not because he also loves someone else.
It sounds like your issue surrounds doubting your partner's ability to love one than one as deeply as you love him. That's big, "challenging old beliefs" kind of stuff.
 
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Adultery was a property crime - the intent to steal another man's wife without his permission. It was never intended to mean what it means today. Nearly all the heros of the Old Testament had multiple wives and concubines with God's blessing and never once was it considered adultery.

I don't like bibles with commentaries anymore because they skew things to their way of thinking right or wrong.
 
OK. Here's the long story. My husband and I were pretty New Age and open-minded. My mother was a Christian, we sent our eldest daughter to a Christian school and I had tried to get into Christianity a number of times. About 8 or 9 years ago a chance meeting with a man caused my daughter to have a profound religious experience. The man's family were pretty 'hardcore' Christians and my daughter (A) ended up marrying his son at the ripe old age of 21.

It was a disaster and within a couple of years A was having an affair which ended the marriage. It would have been so easy for her to have come to the conclusion that Christianity was a load of rubbish and to have resumed life as a fun-loving 20-something free of any restrictions. Instead I watched her grapple through tremendous guilt and shame and work really hard to "get right with God". I couldn't understand it but she held this firm belief that she was "convicted" by God and her feelings would not allow her to live a life that wasn't aligned to that. It took her a while but she fell in love with another (less hard-core) Christian, who she married.

Now I am asking myself if perhaps what I am going through is something of a similar "conviction". What I am feeling is no longer coming from my head but from my heart.

As I said this has all come about as a result of AA. My daughter got me into AA after a friend of my mother's suddenly turned up on my doorstep in January with a conviction to pray with me. I went along with it to be polite to an elderly lady, but after probably drinking most days for the past 20 years, I haven't had a drink since. Very interesting times.
 
Leviticus 18:20 Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

Leviticus 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

contrast with:

Leviticus 20:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

John 8

...The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
 
Thanks Magdlyn
There is no denying that the Bible says many things, often contradictory and widely interpreted. This is why I mix it with how I feel when applying it to my life. I also don't believe that spirituality of any kind is a 'one size fits all' deal. I think we each have to discover what works for us and our relationship with our own interpretation of God.
 
As I said this has all come about as a result of AA. My daughter got me into AA after a friend of my mother's suddenly turned up on my doorstep in January with a conviction to pray with me. I went along with it to be polite to an elderly lady, but after probably drinking most days for the past 20 years, I haven't had a drink since. Very interesting times.

Drinking too much? Or one glass of wine with dinner every day?

Jasmine
 
Drinking too much? Or one glass of wine with dinner every day?

Jasmine

Yes well it started out at 1-2 glasses with dinner everyday. But as my marriage worsened I started using it to feel better. The 'usual" crept up to 2-3-4 glasses; weekend socialising would usually cut out a bottle and when I was particularly upset I would just take a whole bottle of wine and drink it all so I could carry on. After my marriage broke up I was able to peg it back to a couple of glasses most days with a bit more in the weekends but I was always wanting more, even though I didn't allow myself. When I tried to stop on a daily basis I would end up drinking more when I did drink. When I did stop altogether I really started to craving it, this never went away and I ended up going back to it because emotional stuff started coming up that I couldn't deal with. I tried to stop and tried to be very moderate in my drinking for over a year without much success.

Being in AA I realise I had a long way to go to be the 'classic' alcoholic but I have got too much to do with the rest of my life to be putting so much effort into regulating my alcohol intake. Trust me, I am much better off without it. The bonus of it all is that I probably feel the closest to God that I have in my whole life and that is something I have also craved.
 
please email me your response

Should be in your mailbox.

one of what I'll call "The big Suggstions" that most people who live their lives from a Christian platform adhere to.

Something I learned once...
The difference between a little truth and great truth:
The opposite of a little truth is a falsehood.
The opposite of a great truth is another great truth.

I wonder if the big Suggestions fall into the great truth department.

the whole thing about idols and money;

It seems to me that we as a society treat monogamy like an idol. It is above question. Anyone caught violating monogamy is whispered about in scandalized tones.

I struggled with the "Thou shalt not commit adultery" bit too. I worried and worried that I was reading what I wanted to read with the property crime interpretation. But in the end, the facts are the facts. Adultery was indeed a property crime when that law was written. Women were the property of their fathers first, and then their husbands. Notice Exodus 20:17:

"17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

The wife doesn't even get top billing! The house comes first!

"... nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

It's all about property.

Further, a man couldn't commit adultery against his wife. Only against another man.

All this figured into my wrestling with Scriptures. All this contributed to my understanding that the Scriptures were written for a people in a place in a time. They were never written for today's people in today's places in today's time. I can read them for insight, hints, and clues. I can't read them for directives.

I'm using the principles of AA to deal with it, which is handing over my will to a power greater than myself. This is another "Big Suggestion" that I have seen works out best for me.

I understand this. I've done this. Especially when things get really bizarro.
which happens sometimes. Hey, I don't need to land in the belly of a whale!

"Are there more issues than just polyamory involved? What about security, companionship, and simplicity? Are they missing too?" - No, I feel very secure in my relationship, we live simply and are best, best friends. My problems are around depth of relationship and feeling. There is something disturbing for me in being totally invested emotionally when my partner is not because he also loves someone else.

Have you seen the book, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter"? I haven't read it, only heard about it. It's about how the picture perfect princess tale, including Prince Charming, is taking over our daughters' imaginations. They expect their entire lives to be exactly like that.

What's more, the picture perfect romantic tale of "happily ever after" has been insinuating itself into all our lives for so long that it has become like the air we breathe -- we don't even know it's there. Or maybe like all those chemicals and plastics floating around in all our bloodsteams without our knowledge, with unknown toxicity levels.

I'm a committed poly, a poly activist. And sometimes **I** get frustrated around depth of relationship and feeling from my husband, and I feel neglected and want to scream. But you know what? I had times like that long before we transitioned away from monogamy. There's something about those secure, companionable, simple, best-of-friends, long-term committed relationships, they just don't spark the same kind of NRE - new relationship energy. And the toxic Cinderella/Prince Charming virus lurking in our hearts starts to whisper ugly "not enoughs" at us. Because we've been eaten by Cinderella.

Jasmine
 
"Are there more issues than just polyamory involved? What about security, companionship, and simplicity? Are they missing too?" - No, I feel very secure in my relationship, we live simply and are best, best friends. My problems are around depth of relationship and feeling. There is something disturbing for me in being totally invested emotionally when my partner is not because he also loves someone else.
I was talking to someone about having multiple relationships and we both seemed to reach the conclusion that it's so much complexity to deal with that monogamy is just simpler. Also, when you know that someone else prefers the simplicity of monogamy, it is hard not to worry that they will choose to simplify their love life by choosing someone else and dispensing with you. Christianity, however, is very explicit about divorce being hard-hearted and unforgiving. So if you apply that in a practical sense, it could almost mandate polyamory by telling you that even though someone else committed adultry, you should forgive them and love them. The bible says you MAY divorce in cases of adultery, but it doesn't say you MUST, as far as I know. Considering that Christianity is so focused on forgiveness and loving enemies, I think polyamory would be preferred to divorce, but maybe this is a far sought interpretation idk.
 
Phew this seems to finally be clearing for me. Thanks to everyone who has posted something. It does help me to have the biblical stuff interpreted in such sensible ways. Serialmonogamist your little post seemed to hit just the right note at just the right time. Then I went to an AA meeting last night - step 6 Being willing to have God remove all our character defects. It seems the more I go into the 12 step programme the more it opens up. I thought this step was primarily about prayer but it's about being aware of my defects and then changing my thinking.

I said my difficulties could have been about ego and I think they are. I think pride is my greatest character defect and my ego will find any way it can to feed it. Having a partner who also loves someone else attacks my pride at a very deep level.

I don't go to church very often because it can set me off into floods of tears. I've always found it really puzzling that there are all these happy, joyful people around me singing about the wonders of the Lord and I seem get such a different experience of it. A hard work experience. It makes me feel like I must be one of the worst of the worst. Maybe that's why AA works for me, no happy clappers just people who realise they have issues and are willing to look at the really hard things about themselves.
 
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