What if he doesn't really love his wife?

Araneidae

New member
I'm here to vent because I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I've touched on these issues in another forum, but this is another dimension to my situation.

I was never really poly... I started dating an older man, D, last year, who openly told me that he was married and had just started going on dates because his wife had decided to open the relationship. They were each others' first everything, had married young, and had a daughter three years ago. She was in the BDSM community, and wanted to open the marriage so she could advance in a relationship with one specific man. So for the first time since high school, D found himself looking for a girlfriend. He wasn't really interested in it at all. He only started the whole process to make things seem "fair" and he wanted to give her what she wanted.

Skip forward a year later, and he and I are extremely close. I have a busy life, so it usually mostly works out that I don't have a ton of time to spend with him. We see each other 2 nights a week (one overnight). The rest of the time he's busy being an incredibly committed husband and father. Meanwhile our relationship has flourished. I've never felt this kind of love for another person. So at the same time, since I'm not naturally poly, and I'm relatively young, it is painful sometimes to think that I can't really have him all the way. But mostly I'm ok with dealing with these feelings. He's made it clear that I'm staying no matter what and that I'm a crucial part of his life now.

Recently things have been a little rocky. I've always felt like his wife is jealous of our closeness, and tries in some small ways to make me still feel "secondary". We have to always ask for her approval every time we see each other, etc. I also just found out that they made the decision to have another child recently without discussing it with me or S's partner, and S is already pregnant. I have struggled with this a lot emotionally for reasons that are hard even for me to understand.

I've always wondered a little bit... especially when I'm having a dark time emotionally with this and have what D and I call our "bad thoughts"... why they are together. They don't seem physically close. Their personalities are wildly different. And, at the beginning of this whole thing, she really did hurt him by confessing that she wanted to see someone else (let me make clear again, that neither D nor I started out poly so this didn't come naturally to us). At my worst I find myself thinking that I'm so much better than she is. They don't fight and get along fairly well, but there is just nothing there. I mostly kept these feelings to myself and didn't act on them because I thought there was something I wasn't seeing and I didn't want to interfere if D's and my relationship was still flourishing.

When D told me about the pregnancy, he confessed something else. That what he has discovered with me is something he never had with her. That he is sure that he loves me more, and only married her originally because she was the first person who came along. These confessions are dangerous, but a small part of me still liked hearing them. I know that's wrong. I don't know what to do.

After discussing it later, he said that family comes first, and she is his family. Obviously he had still decided to move forward with having another child with her, because "that was always the plan". But part of me feels like this is not the way poly is supposed to be. Sometimes it seems like they are just friendly roommates raising children, and I am the addition for him that makes it worth it because I provide the romantic connection he's discovered he does need. I guess this can work if everyone is happy with it, but now I find myself really hoping for the alternate universe where things could maybe be different. But I know he's too much of a standup guy to let that happen. He basically told me that he wouldn't want his daughter (and the one on the way) to be raised in a divorced family. Nevermind the fact that they would still be surrounded by a world of love from so many people... his mind is fully made up.

Looking for any kind of advice or any similar experiences. Right now I see myself moving forward preserving things basically as they are. We will all work on communication, I'll be there for his current daughter and future child even though the idea of being part of a complete family is sometimes hard, and keep thinking about maybe having a family of my own with him someday (which we have talked about a lot). I'll do my best to be friendly with my metamour. It's complicated, but maybe it will work out. I'm just wondering if I'm a bad person for having these ideas sometimes.
 
I don't think you are a bad person for having these thoughts. They are perfectly reasonable thoughts to have in your situation when you have questions.

  • What about you and your desire to have kids one day? Are you willing to give that up for this?
  • Are you free / emotionally free to date other people?
  • What about the TMI line and him telling you things that you may or may not want to know? Are you happy knowing these things or troubled?
  • What about them making life choices/decisions that influence you in some way (like a new child) without even telling you anything was up? Do you want that to change or are you happy with that?

I don't know how long you two have been together, but it doesn't sound like you talked it all out before, or kept talking along the way.

The beginning doesn't sound auspicious either.

I was never really poly

He wasn't really interested in it at all. He only started the whole process to make things seem "fair" and he wanted to give her what she wanted.

And then this...

But part of me feels like this is not the way poly is supposed to be.

What WOULD poly be for you if it was the way it was supposed to be? What would you want? And how far removed is it from what you actually have?

You are responsible for creating your own happiness and what you do/do not participate in.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks so much for replying.

-We've talked a lot about my potentially having kids. He has confirmed that yes, he would absolutely want to have children with me if that's what I want. And S has also said this is ok, but it was a while ago that it was discussed. But it's 3 years minimum down the road for me as I will be back in school soon.
-I'm technically free to date others. I haven't closed that door for myself completely, but I'm honestly 0% interested. Maybe I'll meet someone, but I'm not looking. Except for dealing with the complications of the setup, he does meet nearly all of my needs.
-Happy and troubled. Yes it did cross a line, and totally shifted my thinking about this entire thing. But it also gives me some comfort and security to know that I still have a unique importance to him.
-I was definitely pissed off that they did this without discussing their plans. I know that they're technically "allowed" to do this but it seems disrespectful and hurtful to not even talk about how it would affect me/us. I've told him that communication absolutely needs to improve and that if they say they want me to be a part of the family... that's part of it.

I know that the beginning sounds bad. This is basically what I mean when I say "not how poly is supposed to be." As in starting when he fell into it mostly against his will to do what his wife wanted, and I fell into it because I fell in love with him (not the poly situation).

What I want is to actually feel like an equal. If I have to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation, I would rather have my metamour happy to see her husband happy instead of complain that they don't have what we have. If I'm going to be somewhat of a co-parent and adult figure to the kids to the best of my ability, I want to feel more integrated into the family. And I also want some more independence in my relationship with D, because I do need that. I also have all the expected selfish worries about time/scheduling/attention when my one-and-only is married with a toddler and an infant. There isn't really a way to work on that part except me knowing that he's such a badass dad, and I'm pretty good with kids, that it'll probably work out in the end even though it keeps me up at night now.

So basically... I'm choosing to continue to participate because I can't imagine my life without him at this point. Sometimes I wish things were different, but also remind myself that I fell in love with him as a whole person, including what an amazing partner and father he is. I just don't want to always feel like I'm always begging/hoping for more time and that I'm taking away from what he already has, which is how she makes me feel sometimes.
 
You're both acting more like you're having an affair than anything else. I'd think carefully about staying in a situation where you resent his wife. It will consume you.

She doesn't make you feel like that. He does. He's the one you're dating and he's the one who has chosen not to set things up in a way that stops you from feeling like a secondary. The reality is that with his marriage, kids, work, family commitments etc, he may not have the resources for anything "more" than a typical secondary style relationship. Despite what he would want in an ideal world.
 
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What I want is to actually feel like an equal.

What behavior is required of

  • you?
  • Him?
  • Meta?

for you to "feel equal" here? Are you able to articulate it into behavior done/not done by who?

If I have to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation, I would rather have my metamour happy to see her husband happy instead of complain that they don't have what we have.

This is not in your control. How your meta or your partner choose to behave or feel is up to them. To me feelings ensue after behavior. Since you cannot control their behavior you cannot control their resulting emotion after their behaviors.

If I'm going to be somewhat of a co-parent and adult figure to the kids to the best of my ability, I want to feel more integrated into the family.

I note you keep using the word "feel" to describe things that are NOT emotion words. "Integrate" is not an emotion word. It's an action word. Could change your thinking pattern to action oriented. That sentence could be reframed as

"If I'm going to be somewhat of a co-parent and adult figure to the kids? In order to be able to perform to the best of my ability I will need to BE more integrated into the family. That would happen by me doing A, him doing B, her doing C and the TRIO doing D."

That might help you figure out how to solve your problems more effectively.

And I also want some more independence in my relationship with D, because I do need that. I also have all the expected selfish worries about time/scheduling/attention when my one-and-only is married with a toddler and an infant. There isn't really a way to work on that part except me knowing that he's such a badass dad, and I'm pretty good with kids, that it'll probably work out in the end even though it keeps me up at night now.

When one is a parent one does put kids first. But even so, a calendar is a calendar, and all the adults in this family could deal with their calendar management better if there's time management problems in one of the adult couplings. If the problem is about time management, it needs time management solutions.

Trying to fix (external time management conflict with him) by yourself by (internally thinking "he's a badass dad") isn't an external time management solution. You seem to be swapping out apples and oranges and not dealing with him direct. If he blames the wife, you have double problem. Time management, and him passing the buck.

So basically... I'm choosing to continue to participate because I can't imagine my life without him at this point.

The way you phrase that does not compute to me. Nobody can divine the future or know the unknown before it happens.

Could reframe that so it is in the present day:

"I am choosing to continue to participate at this time. Because the pros still outweigh the cons for me when I assess it."


If you are still doing the pros/cons list, could finish thinking that out first.

Sometimes I wish things were different, but also remind myself that I fell in love with him as a whole person, including what an amazing partner and father he is.

Are you trying to talk yourself into/out of things when you write like that? Baffling. :confused: Falling in love is a lovely experience, but you are talking about the past "falling in love" stage. Already did that stage. It is not the present. Instead of looking backward could reframe that to today.

"Sustaining love is where we now are at at the present stage. Are we each able to sustain love in the present day? Do we each have the skills to do that? Do we each put in the time and effort required? "

Don't leap to future or look backwards when there's conflict -- be present in the TODAY.

I just don't want to always feel like I'm always begging/hoping for more time and that I'm taking away from what he already has, which is how she makes me feel sometimes.

Could not shift this on to you meta. I'm not saying she's awesomeness.

Could not shift this on to your partner. I'm not saying he's evil.

But if YOU choose to participate here in this polyship in this way going with your needs unmet and not talking about it to your people? That is your behavior. And if you feel yucky as a result? That's your feelings ensuing after your behavior.

Any relationship comes with a price of admission. If this particular one has a price tag of

  • Dealing with a meta you don't esp like?
  • Dealing with the fact your partner has kids and a kid on the way?
  • Dealing with expected to be a coparent to these children?
  • Dealing with putting off your own pregnancy?

That's the price of admission. YOU decide if you can afford to pay it or not and be healthy in your physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual healths. You are responsible for you.

If you find you need more time in order to keep the (you + him) layer healthy, it is what that layer needs. You address it with HIM. Relationships need time/space to happen IN. You either are getting enough time from him or not getting enough from him to do that (you + him) layer TLC. She is not in charge of him or his calendar. He is in charge of him and his calendar. If what time he has available to offer you is not meeting your needs? He is not meeting the needs of the shared (you + him) relationship.

If you are monoamorous but poly-friendly, that means you only want to love one person at a time but are ok being in a poly structure. If choosing to participate here loving only him means you have zero interest in dating other people, it is YOU keeping you from dating other people who might be better able to meet your needs by choosing to continue to participate in a polyship that doesn't meet your needs because you are not willing to detach.

I mean all this kindly. I'm not judging or trying to come down hard on you when you are struggling. :eek:

But that's the bottom line as I see it and how I would try to solve it if it were me. If the (you + him) tier is not getting enough TLC, it's not getting enough TLC.

You could talk to him about it.

  • Could address it now before new baby arrives and see if changes can be put into place so your needs can be better met
  • Could let time pass doing nothing and see if things get better over time on their own. (But resolve on a time limit so it does not turn into the perpetual snooze tag button)
  • Could accept this is what you get here and all you will ever get here. No changes will happen. Limit reached.

Weigh the pros/cons here honestly with yourself and if it's still on the plus side, awesome. If it's not, or just barely into the plus? Then you could consider change. You deserve to "thrive" and be happy in your relationships and not merely "survive" in them.

Galagirl
 
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Gala Girl had some good practical advice. I just want to give you sympathy that your bf got his wife pregnant without telling you they were trying. That means they stopped using birth control some time ago, and went bareback. I can see how that could throw you and make you feel like an outsider! I may not be as enlightened as some poly people. I'd be hurt and angry if that happened to me. I'd wonder about the trust and respect issues inherent in that situation.
 
Gala Girl, that is all really practical advice. In particular, you've repeated something I already knew-- I need to take ownership of my own choices and needs. I've been trying to do a better job of expressing throughout this what exactly my needs are.

Yes, a lot of this comes down to my partner not really serving as a great bridge between me and my meta. He's helped contribute to our system where I have to ask for indirect permission for many things in our relationship. We're working on that. Following this new drama, I finally came out and told him that as much as practical, I would like to be an equal. I know this can't mean 50/50 time in our situation and that's fine. I also have a busy life. But, i told him, if he wouldn't ask for my approval before meeting her for an unscheduled lunch, there is no reason it has to be that way for me. It's more a matter of principle, and it's little things like that that would help me.

I do want to point out that before the pregnancy happened, we had all had our ups and downs, but for several months things were pretty good. Just this past weekend, the four of us (me, D, S, and S's partner) had gotten together for a family BBQ and had a great time. Generally there weren't a lot of immediate issues other than the communication/scheduling principles I mentioned above. Which is why it did hurt so much to find out they had planned this huge change for all of our lives.

Magdyln, thank you as well. I really think I needed to hear that from someone in the community. I wasn't sure if my feelings were justified about this at all. It's not really the physical thing (sex, I mean). As far as I knew they very rarely had sex and we are all fluid bonded anyway. And the time span between trying and success was, well, 2 sessions. They had expected this to take many moths though, and I assume they were planning to wait the many months before telling me.
 
Yeah, I'd feel a little funny about it, though otoh, maybe they didn't want to jinx the process by telling anyone about ttc (trying to concieve). But, since an infant in the mix will impact not just them, but their 2 lovers, I'd say they made an error that needs to be addressed. Poly is complicated and kids complicate it more. Your bf will be way less available with a newborn/teething infant and broken nights' sleep, etc.

I think sometimes poly people can act like they are single or mono, and go ahead and do certain things, not fully being aware of how what they do with one partner ALWAYS ripples down to the other partner(s).
 
I've been trying to do a better job of expressing throughout this what exactly my needs are.

Circle from list? Could that help?

http://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory


But, i told him, if he wouldn't ask for my approval before meeting her for an unscheduled lunch, there is no reason it has to be that way for me. It's more a matter of principle, and it's little things like that that would help me.

I am going to gently disagree. I could be totally wrong in this case... but to me it isn't about him having some agreements with his wife to meet her needs. It's that he might be oversharing them with you and/or that you might be choosing to get upset over it.

What "principle" you are talking about? :confused: I'm not clear. I think he could be respectful of both his partners. That part could be "the same for both."
HOW he demonstrates respectful behavior toward his partners doesn't have to be the same behaviors because you guys have your own preferences. That doesn't have to be the same. One might not care about shoes on the rug, one might want shoes by the front door so the carpet doesn't get grubby. Being "respectful" in each partner's home could be different behaviors. Is that what you mean about having the same principle or did you mean something else?

You guys are different people, and will have different needs. Having "everything the same" in behaviors is not going to work because you may not have the same needs. Like if he passes out chocolate cupcakes to all his partners - that might be "equal and all the same behavior" But if one of you is allergic to chocolate or not into desserts, that's not necessarily "meeting my needs."

If I were dating him? His agreements with his wife could be whatever they are. If they share an agreement that he has to check in with her first before asking me out for a lunch date -- well and good. Their agreement, their deal between them, esp if one of them going out means the other one is on parenting duty with the kid. I get that. But they could sort all that stuff out on their own time.

I wouldn't need to know or be involved in their parenting issues at that stage of the game.

But by the time he asks me out for lunch and I'm involved at that point of the process? I expect it to be good to go. Don't be asking me out for Thurs or Fri lunch, if it turns out he can't actually go because the baby has a doc appt Thurs or something. If he's not actually free to ask me out for Thurs, why's he asking for Thurs? Get it together, dude. Just go with asking me for the Fri then from the start. Organize yourself! Kid emergencies happen, and that's fine, but basic time management, please.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but that's my impression: "Sloppy hinge" with information management (goes to TMI) and not on it with his time management. Then it could get compounded if you choose to take the extra info he overshares personally, or if you choose to think "less than" or "competing with the wife" thoughts. Not fun.

If that applies in your case, maybe those are areas you and he could work on improving. Better info management and time management boundaries.

I think sometimes poly people can act like they are single or mono, and go ahead and do certain things, not fully being aware of how what they do with one partner ALWAYS ripples down to the other partner(s).

Yup. The polymath thing.

Which is why it did hurt so much to find out they had planned this huge change for all of our lives.

It's not cool to do that when this group is more than the one dyad -- it is a 4 person polyship from the sound of it. That polymath shape has MANY singles, duos, trios, and a quad for communication avenues.

At the same time, if this is a matter of great import to you that is something you could have asked. "Is there to be more TTC going on?" Better the issues get covered from BOTH directions than not at all in my mind. Each person has to hold up their end of the stick.

(Him + wife) <---> you

is a two way communication arrow there. It's not the only layer in a 4 person polymath, but that seems to be one layer you are talking about here with the communication issues.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Adding my perspective:

I want to throw out a caution here with regard to S, due to an experience I had where I really dropped the ball. I (being monogamous) was struggling with the fact that my wife (very monogamous) was showing signs of Alzheimer's (complicated story), she was struggling with the fact that I was rebelling against everything, and along comes a polyamorous dynamic where I fall in love with another woman. Well, essentially, a struggling marriage (my wife and me) combined with NRE (the other woman), and I had a hard time remembering the positives about my marriage. I was very gung-ho about the new romance I had just discovered.

And the "new woman" was a perfectly good person, there was no problem with putting her on a pedestal. The problem was bumping my wife off the pedestal -- something I did in my own mind, and something I deeply regret today (and there's nothing I can do to make up for it -- my wife passed away last year). I just can't warn strongly enough about how powerful NRE is. I know you and D have been together for at least a year, but I swear that NRE can easily last that long. D probably feels it for you, but it's probably been a long time since he last felt it for S.

In the meantime, S is the "chore relationship" -- the relationship with kids to tend to, jobs to do around the house, bills to pay, and on and on. Whereas D's time with you is probably free of all those doldrums and minutiae. You and D = pure romance ... whereas S and D = the depressing realities of domestic living. I don't mean to presume I can jump into your minds and know that's how it really is, but I'm just saying there's a reeeally good chance it might seem that way in D's eyes. Which could be the reason he's thinking, "I've got something with Araneidae that I never had with S."

And actually, that's technically true. What he has with you is different from what he ever had with S. That's because you and S are two different people. Two different people --> two different relationships. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. The day may come when D lives to regret bumping S off the pedestal. The truth is, you and S probably both deserve to be up there.

I know the situation I had is different from the one you have. First of all because yours was *initiated by* "the wife," whereas mine was *introduced to* "the wife." And there are many other differences, I don't doubt. I'm just saying be really careful about the NRE factor, because it can make the whole world look turned upside down.

Other than that, I'm in agreement with all that's been posted on this thread, and I really like the advice GalaGirl's had to offer. Try to work on the problems a little at a time, and make a new resolution to try to be friends with S -- on S's team, not on the opposing team. You need to know that S is on your team, and S needs to know you're on her team as well.

If I am out of line with anything I've said here, I apologize. I guess I just hope others will be able to avoid the regrets that I ended up (justly) experiencing.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks so much for your helpful words, Kevin. Sorry for the late reply. I've been mulling things over, and we've sort of been in a period of uncertainty right now.

I really don't know how to repair things at this point. D and S have talked, and resolved that they have problems in their relationship that come down to not mutually appreciating each other. He thinks he's fixing this by initiating more quality time with her, and keeps saying it's a slow process. But really, very little seems to be changing.

Meanwhile, S reached out to me to tell me that she is bothered by the intensity of my relationship with D and wishes for me to find another partner to take some of the strain off THEIR relationship. Essentially, saying that their issues are because D and I have a strong relationship.

I respectfully replied that I'm not interested in seeing anyone else-- and that is my choice, I understand that. Since this point, she did not reply to me, has not spoken to me or communicated with me in any way (even once when we were all together, she refused to even look at me). D and I still have our regular amount of time together more or less, but everything is on edge. I feel like I can't ask for anything even close to "extra"... like a short vacation with him, an unscheduled outing with him, some extra time to spend with his daughter, or anything like that, because it would be putting pressure on a fragile situation-- D is unwilling to even bring such things up with her in fear of rocking the boat. I guess both of us are being stubborn-- I don't want to reach out and apologize when I don't see that I've done anything wrong, and I guess she thinks I'm being selfish. I have tried to reach out to her with casual conversation in an attempt to bring things back to at least civility, but she ignores me.

Not sure what anyone else can provide here, as this is all so complicated and has so many layers. I don't want to feel like I'm in competition with her, but I'm just not in a good place about it right now. Any ideas how to improve this going forward?
 
It takes two to tango. If she's unwilling to communicate with you, despite your efforts to reach out to her, then there's nothing you can do about that.

I don't know what she thinks of you personally, but as a "thing" -- specifically, a thing that has captured her husband's heart, she clearly sees you as a threat. Quite possibly she thinks he might leave her because he has you. At the least she blames her own relationship problems with him on you. She doesn't want to assume the responsibility for those problems herself.

It remains for D to be the one who decides what he's going to do about this. If he decides on "steady as she goes" for the rest of your lives, then that's what you're all stuck with, unless you or S decide to break up with him. You and D will continue to walk on eggshells where S is concerned, while S will continue to stress out over the great relationship she sees D having with you that she knows she doesn't have with D. And that'll be the story of your lives, til death do you all part.

There's a chance that D spending more time with S will eventually help. But it kind of sounds like S and D need some professional counseling. There's a rift between them that runs pretty deep.

You can suggest that to D if he asks your opinion. Otherwise your choices are limited to

  • continue to go along with whatever D decides,
  • put your foot down and insist D and S get counseling or divorce.
Do you want to put your foot down, or do you want to continue to keep the peace? Which of the two alternatives sucks less?

If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. Sorry things have deteriorated (or stagnated at least).

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you deal in this.

Meanwhile, S reached out to me to tell me that she is bothered by the intensity of my relationship with D and wishes for me to find another partner to take some of the strain off THEIR relationship. Essentially, saying that their issues are because D and I have a strong relationship.

On the surface that seems illogical... Her putting that they have issues at your door. If she wants a strong bond with him she could develop that with him rather than envying yours with him. Under the hood what does that mean though? How does he behave toward her?

Because even though you are not doing anything, if he goes around the house going "GF never does that, GF always does this" to his wife, I could see where wife could get sick of hearing about GF. (You) If it is the hinge's behavior that is pushing buttons like that? The wife could have trouble separating that out and "transfer" it to you rather than seeing it is the husband's behavior in his communication style that is actually the alienating irritant that prevents them from bonding better. Not you.

Could any of the people in this polyship be dealing in poly hell stuff?

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

And whatever happened to the bdsm partner she opened up for? Is that still on or did that fade away? Could she be upset that her husband's other relationship proved longer lasting than hers and that be the reason for envying that the bond between you guys is strong?

Could it be fears during pregnancy rearing up?

I thought you guys were moving toward coparenting and more like a "family style" polyship rather than a "separate relationships" model the last time you wrote. I do not see how it is supposed to function as "three adult polyshipping coparents" smoothly if you cannot solve problems together and do effective conflict resolution.

It is still up to you if you continue to participate in this. If you are? You could set some healthy boundaries and suggest all of you seek a counselor. I do not think both you and D "shrinking yourselves to not rock the boat" is the answer. You all could talk more efectively rather than talk less to help resolve the conflicts. Get help having those conversations with a counselor if you all cannot do it effectively on your own.

I would not add more dating partners or children to this at this time.

I do not know if any of those ideas help you any but I hope this sorts out for your sake. Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
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I don't have any advice to add but just wanted to say I feel that I am in a similar situation to the OP, and this thread is exactly what I needed to read. I definitely feel a stronger more powerful love with my partner, and my husband was my first love. I don't think my husband really realizes the disconnect yet. I have no desire to leave him, and we are planning on starting a family soon. Thanks all for the advice on this topic, and I look forward to whatever else people have to add
 
If I'm going to be somewhat of a co-parent and adult figure to the kids to the best of my ability, I want to feel more integrated into the family.

As a mom, if someone came in and expected to CO-PARENT my kids (existing and any future), I would be livid and wouldn't want them anywhere near me or my kids EVER. My husband's best friend, over the years, has become closer than an aunt to my kids, but she is NOT a co-parent. I am the parent and my husband is the parent. For me this expectation or goal sends up all kinds of red flags (even if the expectation coming from one of the parents).

Is your begging for more time with the bf reasonable for a man with job, home, family and possible other interests that don't involve you? Twice a week commitments is actually a LOT of time away from a young family and household chores, especially if any of those are overnights. Many people with a family are lucky to get one night a week. I have a few childless friends and they have NO clue that staying out late, even just once is a BIG, HUGE, friggin deal and it adds extra stress on the parent that is staying home. Have you offered to babysit so your bf and his wife can have a night out?
 
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You talk a lot about wanting to be seen as more an equal to your metamour, having a role in parenting their existing and future children, and feeling betrayed that their family planning (having another child) was done without including you before moving forward.

And then you say you try to maintain a friendly rapport with his spouse.

Do you contribute time and money to the care and maintenance of their kids and home? If a family emergency comes up that causes plans to change, are you upset and feeling a loss? Do you offer help in shuttling the kids to activities? As asked above, do you offer to watch the kids so they can go out and reconnect romantically? Would YOU be happy if that was something your partner would be happy to do or would you find it threatening? If you and he wanted to move on to having a kid now, how would you feel consulting her and her having an equal say in that or how to raise that child?
 
Like Kevin-I let my emotions motivate me to knock Maca off the pedastal AND over the years I have noticed for myself that I also do this with GG from time to time.
I have (thankfully) learned that actions need not follow emotions and I don't allow my decisions regarding who to be with change in the "heat of the moment" like that.
I love your example Kevin and the way you explain it.

Also-like others have said; I am a mother of 5. If someone else tried to come in and "take over" as a co-parent without my EXPRESS invitation-regardless of their sexual relationship with one of my partners; they would be sent flying and my partners would be welcome to join them.

I am VERY easy going about co-parenting. But the invitation HAS TO BE FROM ALL CURRENTLY INVOLVED PARENTS. PERIOD. It also has to be accepted by the children.
In our case all of the children are co-parented by a group of four adults. Three of them have additional parents outside of the household.

But you can't make that choice or decision. It's not your place. That is a decision which must be made by BOTH of them AND their children.
 
That's a lot of responses! I'll try to get to these as succinctly as possible.

@Kevin:
I've suggested that counseling might be a good option for us, because communication across the board has been pretty bad. I'm a scientist, and I like to lean towards if a certain method is clearly failing for a certain amount of time... it's time to try a new method. I don't know if they'll agree.

@GalaGirl:
As far as I can tell, her apparent envy of our bond seems to come from D's more subtle actions. I am sure he is not parading around announcing why our side/I am potentially better. She has just noticed that he seems excited to spend time with me, etc, and doesn't feel the same thing back. She is still with her partner, but we really don't know much about the strength of their relationship other than that it is not as intense as mine and D's. I also thought we could move toward a family-style poly and was fine with this, but I was pushed back hard by S. She specifically said in her email that she wants to include me more but my "monogamous desires" make her feel threatened and "our family always comes first." This baffles me, because I don't see why me expressing an interest in being involved with the whole family (including her!) highlights my monogamous desires. It seems to me like her fears have caused a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was asking all this time to be more involved with the group as a whole, she pushed me back because she feared I was trying to take her husband/daughter/family away and was just trying to "date [her] husband", and now things are such that I AM just dating her husband and have to "demand" more alone time with him if I'm going to see him at all.

@MsChristy:
Just my two cents, and please let me know if I'm out of line, but... if you are feeling a dynamic shift with your husband (maybe not enough to lead to a split, but still)... is it really a wise time to think about starting a family? Because of my situation, I would say absolutely make sure you talk this out with both of your partners and make sure everyone is aware where they stand FIRST.

@SNeacail and Vin:
I didn't come in expecting to co-parent, and I don't even know if that's what I'm expecting now. In the beginning I never even thought I would meet D's child. But things have evolved to the point where I have a significant role in her life, and I would like to continue being a consistent adult figure for her. No, I was never explicitly given this role by both parents, but over time D has encouraged me to where I am now, and I thought S was ok with the way things are... I thought. D and S never had a real discussion about exactly what role they wanted their other partners to play in child-rearing, and I think that's having repercussions now.

This doesn't mean I want to change rules or make significant decisions, but I do want to have some kind of a voice. YES I have offered to babysit, and have done so on a few occasions, and the offer stands, but S seems to be feeling a lot of what you're expressing here. She is currently unwilling to let me have any more than bare minimum time with her child because she seems to feel like I'm trying to take her away (which to me is so ridiculously far from the truth). If I were permitted, I would be happy to be involved more in a HELPFUL way. I would be thrilled to be able to take on more responsibilities with their child and around the house, but I can't if I'm in the position where even asking to do this makes me seem like I'm trying to take something away from them. Just recently, D was working late every single night this past week, and I offered to watch their daughter for a night or two so S could get a break. She quickly rebuffed and said she wouldn't be needing any of my help... in a rather passive-aggressive way. I have no issues with family emergencies, but I can tend to get upset if they make family plans at the last minute that can and do interfere with my plans, and I'm just expected to be fine with it-- when I can pretty much never ever make last minute plans in our current setup. This just comes down to our scheduling and communication issues.

If I were to have a child with D, in an ideal world, I wish that S and I could get along and communicate well enough that we could be co-parents. I think all hands on board is a wonderful concept for raising children. But right now this is not looking good for the future of that concept for us.
 
As an example of what I'm trying to point out to you concerning your feelings about their unborn child.
Right now my my husband and I have one kid. My other partner takes from this dynamic time that would otherwise go to my husband/kid. As well money I spend during the time I am with him. He contributes nothing towards the care of my home or kid. If my husband and I decided to have another kid, I'd think it was out of bounds if my other partner felt he should have been given a say in that when he isn't responsible for any part of the existing kid re time or money and wouldn't be for any other kid I might choose to have.

That it bothers you, combined with your admitting you feel gratified in your belief that you have some greater connection with your partner than he has with his wife, it takes on a competitive nature. You don't want a child right now - something that would further take time and money from his household and all who live there. Yet your are upset that they chose to have another child now for whom you also won't be responsible. Could it be the new child with only add to the amount of years you'll have to wait so his children won't be raised in a divorced home? Gosh! What an unhelpful conversation that seems!

For a future where you would create a larger deficit of time and money in that household by him having a child with you, this competitive vibe has to go. He doesn't want his kids growing up in a divorced home; would he prefer a married yet contentious home? Please examine yourself for exactly why a child for them now really bothers you when theirs won't cost you a dime, perhaps some time but one you might have with him WILL greatly cost her. It really seems you find it cute to think you outshine her in some way AND you have your eye on the other side of wife and mother.
 
For a future where you would create a larger deficit of time and money in that household by him having a child with you, this competitive vibe has to go. He doesn't want his kids growing up in a divorced home; would he prefer a married yet contentious home? Please examine yourself for exactly why a child for them now really bothers you when theirs won't cost you a dime, perhaps some time but one you might have with him WILL greatly cost her. It really seems you find it cute to think you outshine her in some way AND you have your eye on the other side of wife and mother.

Unfortunately, the OP did not come up with these desires and expectations on her own. D confided to her he felt a deeper connection; D brings their child around and encourages her interaction. He seems to have desires not shared by his wife. They need to get their shit figured out so the OP knows where she stands. D can feel things for the OP and wish for things all day and night, but what is he actually willing to do?

It appears he wants to keep her bound to him, but do nothing to actually act on the desires he has shared with her. Granted if his wife does not share his desires, they all have choices to make:

-continue on as they are
-the OP could decide she has had enough
-the OP could find an additional companion
-the wife could issue an ultimatum
-the husband could stand up to the wife about what he really wants
-other permutations
 
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