Is this a fair request of my primary ...

Wyrdkiss

New member
This is a poly-theory question on approach and responsibilties of all individuals involved.

My primary partner (F) is struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else [also F] and I (Male) wiIll leave the primary relationship. that is her base fear.


As a result, she doesn't feel she can handle talking to my play partner / secondary at this time.
She knows we care for one another, but it is new (three weeks in).

My "secondary" (we both dislike that term) is getting uncomfortable, and may bail due to our new to this and shaky, odd, possibly determinental situation.

You see, my primary wants to support me, but she and I together do not know the answer to this:

IS MY PRIMARY PARTNER "on board" with us being open if she refuses to write to or meet my secondary (my secondary, F, has reached out and offered to meet her).

Is she crippling us unconsciously? When offered to meet my secondary, She says she, "can't be that adult about it right now." Does that mean she cannot be even in an open relationship?
Is it totally unfair of me to request my primary write her and offer some kind of connection, some reassurance of approval and awareness, however minimal?

She feels pressured by my suggestion that it is her half of the responsibility and commitment for us to truly give this a go. I feel a lack of consideraton and committment from her regarding out lifestyle agreement, and I may lose my secondary because of it.

Does my primary have the right to be herself in this, doing it her own way, or does she need to put on her big girl pants and step up, reach out, and aknowledge my secondary kindly?

Thoughts? who can relate to either side?

Complex question, thanks for looking
 
Last edited:
No. She has the right to decide when she is comfortable meeting other members of your polyship. She may need more time, more reassurance from you, more working on her own issues - but that is HER stuff. You can't force her. So even though the NRE is bursting off the screen in your post, hold your horses! Also, anyone who is already claiming "secondary" status three weeks in is a fast mover; maybe everyone should slow down a bit. If she likes you, she will wait until your existing partner is more comfortable before demanding increasing levels of connectedness and intimacy. If she wants to move on before you can provide that, then it doesn't sound like she is into YOU, she is into the idea of a relationship and it doesn't matter who it is with. Just my two cents. Good luck!
 
I partially agree with Dev, in that it is your partner's choice how fast to move with your new partner. She is NOT in a relationship with her; you are. She doesn't ever have to meet her. You have to trust her choices.

There is the risk that if she chooses to uninvolve herself from a part of your life, that she might find herself "out of the loop," when it comes to major parts of your life, feeling as if she's excluded- BUT THAT WAS HER CHOICE. And she may be totally okay with not knowing that half of your life.

The red flag, for me, is that you say the reason for this is not a lack of interest, but because she is "struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else." This speaks to a "don't ask, don't tell," relationship, and usually indicates major issues with the relationship. I can totally understand your new girlfriend being wary of your partner's insecurities with poly as a whole.

I have gotten myself in a DaDt relationship, and, fair or not, I don't think I would ever put myself in a situation where I couldn't meet both partners up front. Burned too badly before, and can't handle the ensuing drama that could result and me already in love with the man/woman.
 
If I Don't want to meet someone I won't. The more my partner tried to coerce me the more in would refuse and get pissed.

Its not any of my responsibility to help my partner with his other relationships. If he gets dumped because I refuse to meet someone he's seeing thats not on me.

IMO OP, you are 100% in the wrong here.
 
What pops out to me seems to be that she might have agreed to participate in a polyship she is not on board with. To me "not sure" is less than "joyous yes." So it counts as "no" if it is time to make the final call. Cannot be on the fence forever.

If someone does not really want to be here any other question after that becomes moot. You can certainly ask things of her. Like she could ask things of you. But if she doesn't want to be here... Why be here asking stuff about how you want to be here together? :confused:

If she wanted to try it on to help her decide... Try it on for how long before making the final call so people can get off the fence and moved forward? That does not sound like it was established.

I think you both could revisit that fundamental before coming to address additional agreements on how metamours fit or do not fit in your lives and how much, if many interaction there will be.

Was it a case of avoidy gone wrong?

First her not wanting to experience break up feelings so went went along with the poly shipping to avoid that.

And now she has a polyship shape she does not want. But cannot admit that because then she has to own that she was less than honest about wanting to be here. Gotta avoid that.

She still does not not to break up with you and experience break up feelings. Still avoiding that.

But she does not want you to break up with her for her less than honest behavior because then she experiences break up feelings. Gotta avoid that.

So she continues to just do nothing while going against her own grain in hopes the the other one goes away by magic? Then she is free of the polyship shape she does not want. You deal with any break up feelings, not her. And she does not have to reveal or own she was less than honest at the start?

Is that what this is? You could ask her if that is the logic here.

I could be totally wrong, but just another angle to consider. It is not kind to rush her if it is about needing time.

But it is also not kind to let her keep on this way either if that is what you have on your hands... Not wanting to even be here but not wanting to be the guy to pull the plug either stuff.

That is no foundation for a healthy polyship if one of the players is loathe to be there.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Just read back your OP and listen to yourself. You need to put on your grown up underwear and stop being so insensitive and demanding.,
 
There are two separate issues.

1) Does your primary have to meet your other dating partners?
2) Does your primary have to show comfort with poly?

There's no requirement for her to be involved. But if she is literally unable to meet or contact your girlfriend-- that is a warning sign. This is the kind of situation that ends up with you in love with both and living two different lives...may even have to pretend to your wife that the girlfriend doesn't exist. That gets pretty tricky.

Are you willing to do that?
 
Thank you, everyone, for the time you've offered us thus far.

A few responses first

...Also, anyone who is already claiming "secondary" status three weeks in is a fast mover; maybe everyone should slow down a bit. If she likes you, she will wait until your existing partner is more comfortable before demanding increasing levels of connectedness and intimacy. If she wants to move on before you can provide that, then it doesn't sound like she is into YOU, she is into the idea of a relationship and it doesn't matter who it is with. Just my two cents. Good luck!


I definitely appreciate you reminding me that a new play partner NRE does not justify any pressure on her part for my primary to act in a way she is uncomfortable, or for me to become some sort of dysfunctional liaison. Good points, and taken to heart.

Note Devirajni: "secondary" was used for ease of context, not literally when posted. I must learn, however, that those words should be used accurately here to gain the most accurate feedback possible -- and not confuse or annoy the rest of you.

Just read back your OP and listen to yourself. You need to put on your grown up underwear and stop being so insensitive and demanding.,

You are absolutely right London. I've apologize to my partner for the pressure I created be even asking the question of her, by even raising the issue at this point.

IMO OP, you are 100% in the wrong here.

Thank you for the feedback as well Inyourendo. Sometimes we just need to read it from someone else.

I partially agree with Dev, in that it is your partner's choice how fast to move with your new partner. She is NOT in a relationship with her; you are. She doesn't ever have to meet her. You have to trust her choices.

There is the risk that if she chooses to uninvolve herself from a part of your life, that she might find herself "out of the loop," when it comes to major parts of your life, feeling as if she's excluded- BUT THAT WAS HER CHOICE. And she may be totally okay with not knowing that half of your life.

The red flag, for me, is that you say the reason for this is not a lack of interest, but because she is "struggling to get past her fears I will fall in love with someone else." This speaks to a "don't ask, don't tell," relationship, and usually indicates major issues with the relationship. I can totally understand your new girlfriend being wary of your partner's insecurities with poly as a whole.

Yes PolyinPractice -- it's true we have our agreements down, but what is truly comfortable with her, TRULY desired in the context of our arrangement we haven't faced. I know her discomforts, but not my partner’s real interest in an open lifestyle, if she has any. She can articulate them logically, but there is a definitive disconnect in application.
We are not necessarily striving to be poly at all, we are striving to be prepared and accepting of what life offers us.
I tend to care about people I am explorative with for the most part.


What pops out to me seems to be that she might have agreed to participate in a polyship she is not on board with. To me "not sure" is less than "joyous yes." So it counts as "no" if it is time to make the final call. Cannot be on the fence forever.

.....

That is no foundation for a healthy polyship if one of the players is loathe to be there.

Galagirl

Your ENTIRE post was spot on Gala, very perceptive. These issues are unfortunately quite complex, but what it boils down to is regardless if we try open or if we "go" monogamous, it is prompted and fettered out of her fear either way.

She probably doesn't want anything to do with flexibility. Not truly, deeply inside.
Yes she fears I will leave her if we close up the relationship and other areas don't rectify themselves. We have some different sexual and social interests, energy, comfort, modes of expression and lifestyles at this point. that is why I thought being open would be a relief for both of us.

So yes, she feels quite stuck.

And so do I.

We have many years together, and love our life aside from this (considerable) disparity.

So with that said, it is fascinating that this question of logistics and protocol took us right back to the start, thanks to the veterans on this site and their honest feedback.

What to say from here, I'm at a loss for words. Fear is the mindkiller, and I feel pressured regardless to be the one to make the decision -- and be it open, mono or break up, it's still feels all on me...

There are two west coast workshops approaching -- one on doing Poly well, the other on how to handle jealousy and insecurity even before attempting to open, or for those who have and struggled.

Perhaps attending both of those, then sorting the dominoes where they fall is our best strategy at this point.

In addition to me becoming a better listener -- and actually doing something with what I'm hearing -- I am going to encourage my partner to jump on this site and ask her own questions, explore her own topics, and perhaps that will help us take a direction together, any direction, with less fear.
 
Last edited:
p.s.

I've unintentionally derailed this thread from a theoretical question to personal relationship extrapolation in this subforum.

Mods please move if necessary, if not we can get back on to the topic at hand -- the necessity of communication in general between Primary partner's ----> OSO's, etc.
 
no I'm not, but I could certainly keep it minimal if we are all being honest with one another.

How would you define minimal? What I think is necessary information and what my husband things is necessary information are two very different things at times (something we're still defining after years of being together and being varying shades of open).
 
What to say from here, I'm at a loss for words. Fear is the mindkiller, and I feel pressured regardless to be the one to make the decision -- and be it open, mono or break up, it's still feels all on me...

Not necessarily.

Y'all could set the "fence limit" now since it wasn't set before. Keep doing best til X date and at that date it's final call. If NOT all players are at "JOYOUS YES! THRILLED TO BE HERE!" could accept the (no confidence vote), be sad, disband. Move ON to the healing stage. Free from spinning wheels stage.

All call feel good about "well, we gave a good honest shot all the way til.... and we broke up on good terms. That part is good."

Fear of a break up is because one hasn't experienced a good one... well, plan for a good one if it must be. A STELLAR shebang party of one!

Smaller win than (all stay together in joyous yes) but it's a win if you let it be.

Dragging out (lack of purpose/indecision) through (suckage) to (deep resentment land)? Ugh. That's not a small win. That's all kinds of ugh.

Galagirl
 
Not necessarily.

Y'all could set the "fence limit" now since it wasn't set before. Keep doing best til X date and at that date it's final call. ...

[/QUOTE]

Yup, that's somewhat the plan.
we've discussed a lot, I've chilled out and slowed down and we've enjoyed ourselves this week.

Dragging out (lack of purpose/indecision) through (suckage) to (deep resentment land)? Ugh. That's not a small win. That's all kinds of ugh.

Indeed it is. We're ready to move beyond the analysis paralysis in some way or form.

Thanks everyone.
 
Disclaimer: I don't do sugar coating.

My "secondary" (we both dislike that term)

Then don't use it. Give her a nickname on here, and use her real name in real life.

You see, my primary wants to support me, but she and I together do not know the answer to this:

IS MY PRIMARY PARTNER "on board" with us being open if she refuses to write to or meet my secondary (my secondary, F, has reached out and offered to meet her).

Yes. More precisely, if she's otherwise on board with being open, then refusing to interact with your other partner does not negate that.

Is she crippling us unconsciously?

We're not mind readers. Impossible to say. Any claims to the contrary are conjecture and loaded with personal assumptions.

When offered to meet my secondary, She says she, "can't be that adult about it right now." Does that mean she cannot be even in an open relationship?

No. It means she needs time and space to process what she's feeling.

Is it totally unfair of me to request my primary write her and offer some kind of connection, some reassurance of approval and awareness, however minimal?

It's never unfair to request anything. Bear in mind that requests are not demands, and requesting something does not entitle you to receive it. If you make a request and she denies your request, then follow your own advice: pull up your big boy pants and get over it.

Continually pressuring someone to give in to your requests turns them into demands. Making demands is unkind and a great way to ruin a relationship.

She feels pressured by my suggestion that it is her half of the responsibility and commitment for us to truly give this a go.

You're pressuring her so she feels pressured. Shocking.

I'm not hearing any empathy or consideration for your primary's feelings. Clearly she's struggling with this, and rather than being supportive and loving, you're pressuring her and making demands. Keep it up, and it won't just be your secondary you lose.

Whose idea was it to open the relationship? That has bearing on how much "responsibility" she has to make it work. If this was all your idea, then you get more than just half the responsibility in making it work. What's in it for her?

I feel a lack of consideraton and committment from her regarding out lifestyle agreement, and I may lose my secondary because of it.

If this is the only issue, then it sounds like you're blowing it out of proportion. If there are other signs and reasons that trigger these doubts, then focus on those and take it all as a whole.

Does my primary have the right to be herself in this, doing it her own way

Damn right she does. It's called "autonomy" and it's a need that all humans share. We all get to make our own choices. And we most certainly get to be ourselves and do things our own way.

You really need to be told this??

or does she need to put on her big girl pants and step up, reach out, and aknowledge my secondary kindly?

Is your secondary so self-conscious and feeble that she requires other people to acknowledge and accept her in order to feel valued? If so, then that's your secondary's personal self-esteem issue and learning to cope with that is 100% her responsibility.

There's no rule that says everyone has to like everyone. Some couples agree that they'll meet each other partners. Others agree never to see or hear of them. Emphasis on agree, as in two-way mutually decided, free from coercion and manipulation.

It's a question of what works for the people involved. It's unclear whether not meeting your other girlfriend actually "doesn't work" for you and the other girlfriend, or if you guys are just falling into some trap about "the one and only correct way to do poly." There's no such thing.

But ultimately, if your primary refuses to meet the other girlfriend, then short of stalking her and forcing a meeting (which is totally uncool), there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. If that's a problem for you, then you're well within your rights to evaluate whether or not this form of open relationship is suitable for you.
 
There's no requirement for her to be involved. But if she is literally unable to meet or contact your girlfriend-- that is a warning sign. This is the kind of situation that ends up with you in love with both and living two different lives...may even have to pretend to your wife that the girlfriend doesn't exist. That gets pretty tricky.

OP, honestly, if your wife never wants to meet her metamour or if she does meet but isn't interested in building a friendship with her, it should not be seen as a warning sign but that you need to quit pressuring her to push her boundaries. I've recently had to tell bassman and wild orchid (my metamour) that I am not ready to be besties with her and that I'm not ready for family activities (unless my boundaries on PDA is respected). Seriously if my husband was told that's a warning sign I'd be a little pissed. That's lack of respect for someone's comfort level. Hub & gf have been together since the end of October. I experience lots of compersion when he's with her & maybe one day I'll be okay with love share BUT I'm not there yet. Its possible I never will be.

The more bassman pressures me or tells me it'd be great if one day all of us can love share, I feel pressure, anxiety and that I'm taking 20 steps backward instead of one baby step forward at a time. Once they stopped pressuring me, guess what? I felt like me again, me who can choose who I want in my intimate circle of family and friends and lovers.

Now if the relationship was broken to begin with that's another story and poly won't solve those problems.

One great piece of advice my poly circle is finally incorporating is "go at the pace of the who is slowest". Just remember that at this time in all this NRE, wife is slowest, need to go at her pace. If she's not ready to meet her metamour, she's not ready & accept she may never want to meet metamours. Its called respecting her and the only red flag/warning sign is recognizing you're being pushy.
 
Wyrd, I took a look at your old threads. Seems you and gf have been together 5 years and open 3? And yet, this is only how far you've come in making poly work. I dunno if she's really cut out for it. Do you?
 
One great piece of advice my poly circle is finally incorporating is "go at the pace of the who is slowest". Just remember that at this time in all this NRE, wife is slowest, need to go at her pace. If she's not ready to meet her metamour, she's not ready & accept she may never want to meet metamours. Its called respecting her and the only red flag/warning sign is recognizing you're being pushy.

While the advice, "go at the pace of the slowest," is a nice and considerate thing to do, it's not always the best. As GalaGirl pointed out, it's not actually being nice to let someone live in denial-- as appears to be the case. Well, it's one of the possibilities in this situation.

I'm all for letting the wife ease herself into comfort, but again, as was pointed out, this has been three years? And the wife still can't even bear the thought of knowing who he is with? This speaks to insecurities on her part that probably need to be addressed. It's not unfair of the "secondary" to want to feel that the wife is accepting of this (I mean, suppose the OP was lying and having an affair?) A one time meeting is not asking her to be a BFF. The wife needs to grow up here, imo. Or they need to be mono. Or find a woman who is okay with DaDt.

Especially after reading London's story. I know what happened to her is not unique, and therefore don't think I'm paranoid in encouraging the OP's girlfriend to get the wife on board. Even if it means pushing boundaries. Sometimes being "pushy" is okay ;)
 
While the advice, "go at the pace of the slowest," is a nice and considerate thing to do, it's not always the best. As GalaGirl pointed out, it's not actually being nice to let someone live in denial-- as appears to be the case. Well, it's one of the possibilities in this situation.

I'm all for letting the wife ease herself into comfort, but again, as was pointed out, this has been three years? And the wife still can't even bear the thought of knowing who he is with? This speaks to insecurities on her part that probably need to be addressed. It's not unfair of the "secondary" to want to feel that the wife is accepting of this (I mean, suppose the OP was lying and having an affair?) A one time meeting is not asking her to be a BFF. The wife needs to grow up here, imo. Or they need to be mono. Or find a woman who is okay with DaDt.

Especially after reading London's story. I know what happened to her is not unique, and therefore don't think I'm paranoid in encouraging the OP's girlfriend to get the wife on board. Even if it means pushing boundaries. Sometimes being "pushy" is okay ;)

My 2 cents: there's a lot of middle ground to be had here. First if the wife is truly on board with poly as she has stated, then that should be enough. There is no requirement that she meet her metamour. Why should she? The relationship is between the two of them - not with her.

So why the push? Sounds like Wyrdkiss does not believe she is on board. And if that's the case meeting the metamour - or not - is a red herring. The issue is whether or not she can tolerate him having another love in his life. Can she or can't she?

As for the metamour, I get the insecurity. I've been there. Trouble was, I'd met the wife of my lover, and had seemingly genuine assurances that all was well - until it wasn't, and she went irrevocably 180 degrees the other way after a few months. So to me, meeting between metamours may provide a sense of security - but it can be totally false.

If it is Wyrdkiss's intent that meeting be a test, it's a lousy one. It may push a wife who is trying to adapt too far, too fast. And if she is just feigning being on board, it won't change that. Or as in my case, assurances are made that mean nothing.
 
The more bassman pressures me or tells me it'd be great if one day all of us can love share, I feel pressure, anxiety and that I'm taking 20 steps backward instead of one baby step forward at a time. Once they stopped pressuring me, guess what? I felt like me again, me who can choose who I want in my intimate circle of family and friends and lovers.

This is a good point. If I'm unsure about something in my life, then people pressuring me is going to push me further and further from wanting to do it. I'll feel like I'd be doing it to please them rather than because I want to.
 
Back
Top