Spreading the love around: does love lessen with more partners.

I find that having both of my beloved's in my life has increased my openness, closeness and bond with both of them. Time IS a topic that needs to be brought into the forefront, it CAN be an issue or you CAN use creative adaptive thinking to keep it from being an issue.
This weekend for example, GG is getting quality time with the kids while Maca and I spend Friday night together. Then, Saturday at noon, he's taking Sweet Pea (11yo) to a movie while Maca spends time with SaltyPea (15yo) and SourPea (3yo), SpicyPea and Ppea are going to see their grandparents and I'm going to tea with a friend. Then at 4pm we're all coming back together for dinner as a family. After dinner SpicyPea and I are walking down to a new dance class near our house to check it out, look at pricing etc. Saturday night after we return from the dance class GG and I will have our time curled up together until late Sunday morning.

Simple? No, quality time for everyone? Absolutely.

So... basically, as I see it, allowing in love from multiple partners potentially enriches one's life, but need not be a replacement or at the expense of any of the other partners.
I really liked your workbook analogy. It's so fitting for my life right now, but also-so very true!

Even if it's the non-sexual activity time, spending time as a whole can offer the opportunity to enjoy the company of more romantic lovers as well as forge new friendship bonds and further open up the channels of communication that are so critical to any relationship.
This is key for me. If a person doesn't want to spend time with my family-they're never going to be a dating option for me. Just won't happen. Of course I spend one on one time with each of my HETEROSEXUAL male lovers alone. I want and need that, so do they.
BUT-if they can't handle spending non-sexual time together, well, they're going to lose out on time with me-just like any other person who doesn't want to spend time with my family TOGETHER is going to lose out on time options.

Pe "Open poly" people in my opinion seem to have a rather low barrier to entry. "You're ok with my lifestyle and my existing partner(s)? Wassup new boyfriend, let's have sex and see how it goes". Wooo NRE!!! A month later it's someone new. That's just my experience though.
LMAO-I'm very picky and that would certainly not work for me. But, it didn't stop my from lmao over the way you wrote it.

I've met many people in the poly-arena who have the attitude that they WANT a long-term, permanent partner.. and yet, they're just jumping from one NRE high to the next with no seeming awareness that they aren't finding what they want because they're too busy getting high.
 
Ahhhhhh - ok...

Hi Precise,

Ok - this is good...............

There's parts of your post that are following......others taking off on their own :)

Such as............

........ If they have spent many years finding the right partner they will of course be upset if they have no alternative or lesser alternatives. Your conclusion that all lovers are equal is quite politically correct but doesn't have much association with reality in my mind.

Ok - so "reality" to you would be living in an ideal world - where all our wants were met - and also the #1 priority for everyone we are in some relationship ?

Now it would seem to me (just lil ol me) that the foundation here is heavily rooted in that concept of "right" partner, - everyone else being 'lesser'.
Hmmmmmm.............
Maybe this is REAL to you. I'm just glad it's not to me !

There was never any assumption that all "lovers are equal" as you say because I don't believe in equality ! But I do believe in uniqueness :) And if you haven't notice by now - being "politically correct" is pretty near the bottom of my priority list lol :)


The rest of this stuff.................well - maybe later.....
GS
That's even to say that all people want to have multiple "secondary" partners, or people they don't trust down to the bone. Every random or semi random sexual encounter you have puts you at risk of numerous diseases, regardless of protection used.

"Open poly" people in my opinion seem to have a rather low barrier to entry. "You're ok with my lifestyle and my existing partner(s)? Wassup new boyfriend, let's have sex and see how it goes". Wooo NRE!!! A month later it's someone new. That's just my experience though.
 
Perhaps it's finding people that they find attractive. If they have spent many years finding the right partner they will of course be upset if they have no alternative or lesser alternatives. Your conclusion that all lovers are equal is quite politically correct but doesn't have much association with reality in my mind.

I would chime in here. I figured out a long time ago that love can in fact be equal (how do you measure love anyways, this is really just a working example) however the relationship may not. Regardless of how the love is, you are absolutely going to have differences in the relationship.

Primary and secondary are not, for everyone, measurements in love. :) They can be:

Based on time involved
Family involved
Responsibilities
etc
etc
etc

Anyways, thats my take, and thats not politically correct. Thats how I feel. :)...
 
I think the workbook analogy might work fine for some situations, but not all. It seems to me to be closer to a secondary kind of thing (you can use the textbook without the workbook, but usually not the opposite).
I think I would prefer an analogy of two different textbooks.
 
Ok - so "reality" to you would be living in an ideal world - where all our wants were met - and also the #1 priority for everyone we are in some relationship ?

Now it would seem to me (just lil ol me) that the foundation here is heavily rooted in that concept of "right" partner, - everyone else being 'lesser'.
Hmmmmmm.............
Maybe this is REAL to you. I'm just glad it's not to me !

I'm along the lines of Ariakas that I believe love is equal. However love isn't the only part, or even the biggest part of a personal relationship.

There was never any assumption that all "lovers are equal" as you say because I don't believe in equality ! But I do believe in uniqueness :) And if you haven't notice by now - being "politically correct" is pretty near the bottom of my priority list lol :)

Ok, my assumption was a little wrong, sorry about that. But I still don't believe you can find a replacement for what you are missing simply by finding enough unique people, at least not in all cases.

I read poly stories where people say "I'm not interested in Cars like my partners new girlfriend is, so they have that kind of interest whereas I don't. It's good my partner can talk about cars with someone they like." Interests alone are things friends are for, I have many people I can relate to through my interests yet it doesn't mean I want to sleep with them, or be closer to them.

A lot of poly people seem to be of the mindset "if you're honest with what you're doing it's fine" and I agree. However to me you need to SELL me on why I should give a close part of myself away to someone. Just because we have a few shared interests and you're attractive isn't a reason to me. Am I missing out on some sex? Yes. But to me it's not enough motivation to constantly put myself under disease risk or give others a part of myself I like to keep special for my loved ones.

I just see a lot of lovey dovey crap with people trying to justify and rationalize the sweet taste of poontang. I just don't see why people do the logical gymnastics to support their lifestyle if its like that, just come out and admit you want some regular, casual sex and be done with it. I feel they aren't really being honest with themselves or their partners when they just throw everything under the "love" cloud - "oh yeah that boner in my pants I just got for that girl is love baby, and remember polyamory is about sharing the love" .
 
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Primary and secondary are not, for everyone, measurements in love. :) They can be:

Based on time involved
Family involved
Responsibilities
etc
etc
etc

Anyways, thats my take, and thats not politically correct. Thats how I feel. :)...

Get out of my head Ari! (j/k, you can stay, I enjoy the company) :eek:
 
I didn't read everything, sorry - but my answer is short and simple for once...

Is the love diluted? NO. Quite the opposite.

TIME - different matter completely. There are only so many hours in a day and days in a week. One on one time is DEFINITELY diluted, and it takes a lot of getting used to.
 
you are talking time no? In my experience it is time that limits my love, or tries too. I can feel love and not express it because of time... that doesn't limit love though.
If there is a time limit on love, then how would you know you have infinite love? You haven't been able to reach the point of saturation yet due to time constraints.
.......Tell me how many people you could handle in a close relationship? You seriously believe if time was infinite your brain could hold all the information needed for 20, 50, 100, 1000 people? Let alone an infinite amount......Not only would time need to be infinite, so would the brain's storage. Basically saying love is infinite is a cop out in my opinion because it will never happen while we are humans and have a 4th dimension called time. "Love is infinite" seems like the war cry of NRE addicts trying to rationalize why they need to have a new boyfriend/girlfriend every month.
I think you missed my point here. I love every one of the partners I have had throughout my life. They each hold a special place in my heart and that will never change. When I see them again I am flooded with that love. In the mean time it comes up when I think of them. I don't need to see them to feel it.

Same as with my partners now. I don't have to be near them to feel love for them. I find that time with them is a precious commodity and that is worth savouring and being grateful for, but that is not a direct correlation of how much I love a person.

If spending time with someone indicates love then that is a personal believe, I think, not a world belief. My love language does not tell me that I need to spend time with those I love to feel loved and to give love. Some of theirs do, sure and we make attempts to make sure that time is spent as often as possible. I would hazard a guess, as an example, that Leo does not equate love with time... PN and Mono both do. Derby does too I think, although perhaps not as much, or maybe we have adjusted to suit the situation we are in. I don't know, she could answer that more for herself I think...

I have handled and do handle the love of hundreds of people. I don't know intimate details about them and I don't pretend that I am close to them either, but again, as I have said in previous posts, I think this is about definition here,,, or description of how one personally loves. I don't seem to love the same way as you do preciselove. Your love is perhaps more precise :p;) mine is perhaps more expanding. :D

As for an NRE cop out... well maybe for some. I have certainly heard people here say that they loved someone more in a one night stand of fucking than other lovers they have been with for a longer period of time.

I personally don't see how you could know someone enough to warrant anything other than a chemical reaction, but that is largely due to the fact that "knowing everything (whatever that means)" is what makes me fall in love with someone... I have not experienced this in one night of sex. Sure, the sex can be good, but I have not left the next morning feeling love for them... but then that is me and perhaps NRE junkies get that and are addicted to that and that is how it is for them. It sounds like it could be true for them rather than a cop out.
 
Emphasis on Sex

I just see a lot of lovey dovey crap with people trying to justify and rationalize the sweet taste of poontang. I just don't see why people do the logical gymnastics to support their lifestyle if its like that, just come out and admit you want some regular, casual sex and be done with it. I feel they aren't really being honest with themselves or their partners when they just throw everything under the "love" cloud - "oh yeah that boner in my pants I just got for that girl is love baby, and remember polyamory is about sharing the love" .

I do not see any more a need to justify "poontang" as I would see a need to justify scrapbooking or racquetball.

If you break it down, making a new, close friend has few real differences to making a new, close lover:


  • Both can take time away from your primary lover
  • Both can have activities that include your primary lover
  • Both can involve complex emotional issues
The only real core difference is sexual interaction. Let's reword some of your statements using the racquetball example:

I just don't see why people do the logical gymnastics to support their lifestyle if its like that, just come out and admit you want some regular, casual sex and be done with it.

might become:

I just don't see why people do the logical gymnastics to support their sport activities if its like that, just come out and admit you want some regular, energetic racquetball play and be done with it.
and:

I feel they aren't really being honest with themselves or their partners when they just throw everything under the "love" cloud - "oh yeah that boner in my pants I just got for that girl is love baby, and remember polyamory is about sharing the love.

might become:

I feel they aren't really being honest with themselves or their partners when they just throw everything under the "exercise" cloud - "oh yeah that excitement I express for my racquetball partner is my love for fitness, and remember friendship is about sharing activities.

The hang-up here is sex. And yes, sexual diversity can be VERY rewarding. I do not think you'll find many people on here to argue against that.

It's also not everything. Nor is it something that *needs* justification. Nor does its presence *need* to be separated from relationships or love.
 
If you break it down, making a new, close friend has few real differences to making a new, close lover:
  • Both can take time away from your primary lover
  • Both can have activities that include your primary lover
  • Both can involve complex emotional issues
Agree with these.

The hang-up here is sex. And yes, sexual diversity can be VERY rewarding. I do not think you'll find many people on here to argue against that.

Sexual activities need to reoccur to be rewarding. Generally speaking. You may have some good memories, but they pale in comparison to the act of having sex with NRE. As such the sex is the driver for a lot of people, yet they usually say otherwise, because then it's not "love" or "poly" it's just typical sex like most people have.

It's also not everything. Nor is it something that *needs* justification. Nor does its presence *need* to be separated from relationships or love.

It does need justification in my mind, because if the main reason you're doing something is the sex but you're saying otherwise then you should be able to defend your position so it's clearly "not mostly about the sex".

If you think most people are honest, even with themselves, when it comes to such things you probably need to learn a bit more about human behaviour. It of course doesn't apply to everyone, and some people are honest about it. I have no qualms with people that know what they want and are honest about it.

However when I see the love is infinite people and then ask some questions about their long term partners there are usually some 'issues' lurking there. I also do not think many people fully analyze a situation and work out what motivates them to do something. They may latch onto an idea that sounds nice in their head, but it's just that, a nice sounding thing that they feel good about. They'll even defend it like it's really "them" due to this nice feeling they get.
 
Justificinationess...

Sexual activities need to reoccur to be rewarding.

In some cases, yes. In some cases, no. Depends on what the person seeking sex defines as "rewarding".

Generally speaking. You may have some good memories, but they pale in comparison to the act of having sex with NRE.

NRE+sex is one flavor, Long Term Love+sex is another. Both have different rewards, and neither is necessarily a bad thing.

As such the sex is the driver for a lot of people, yet they usually say otherwise, because then it's not "love" or "poly" it's just typical sex like most people have.

Gross generalization. Those types of people do exist, but so do the types of people who call themselves poly and also maintain legitimate long term relationships with their partners.

One could reverse that and show that many people calling themselves mono often have nefarious intentions as well.

It does need justification in my mind, because if the main reason you're doing something is the sex but you're saying otherwise then you should be able to defend your position so it's clearly "not mostly about the sex".

This is like saying a smoker who keeps trying to quit, but keeps failing, needs to justify why they'd still want to keep trying to quit. Their track record may be poor, but it does not invalidate their stated desire to quit.

Their chances of success may be perceived as low, but I'd still encourage them to keep trying.

It's another issue if you don't *trust* the person's motives. But that's something that can only be applied to people on an individual basis, not generalized towards a whole group.

If you think most people are honest, even with themselves, when it comes to such things you probably need to learn a bit more about human behaviour. It of course doesn't apply to everyone, and some people are honest about it. I have no qualms with people that know what they want and are honest about it.

Do I believe all people are honest about their intentions? No.

However, if I start from the *assumption* that they are not, I close myself to the rewards that can be gained from those that are.

If I start by giving them the benefit of doubt, I may get hurt. May get burned. But I may also hit the relationship jackpot that I seek.

No pain, no gain.

However when I see the love is infinite people and then ask some questions about their long term partners there are usually some 'issues' lurking there. I also do not think many people fully analyze a situation and work out what motivates them to do something. They may latch onto an idea that sounds nice in their head, but it's just that, a nice sounding thing that they feel good about. They'll even defend it like it's really "them" due to this nice feeling they get.

Issues lurk in both mono and poly relationships. Mono relationships don't have that great a statistical success rate, even in institutionalized marriage.

Poly relationships are more challenging to manage than mono due to the additional partners in play.

Though rare, super-duper high-quality mono and poly relationships exist. Both , IMHO, have rewards worth pursuing.
 
I feel they aren't really being honest with themselves or their partners when they just throw everything under the "love" cloud - "oh yeah that boner in my pants I just got for that girl is love baby, and remember polyamory is about sharing the love" .

The irony here is my observation comes from the other direction. I find to many people throw friendship under the "love" cloud (speaking about romantic love). I am beginning to realize this is where I seem to differ greatly from people in poly.

In my head I can easily break out friendship and romantic love. I can then split it into crush, lust, puppy love and real long term love. Can I define it for others (as GS keeps asking ;)) no, I can't. I can't define it for anyone, just like no one is going to tell me friendship and a new lover fall equally in line with each other.

  1. Both can take time away from your primary lover
  2. Both can have activities that include your primary lover
  3. Both can involve complex emotional issues

I can understand where this can overlap. But it so doesn't work in the same way. Yes friendship can take away some of those times (or be included), but the emotional connection or removal isn't there. The time itself is very different, and even if there are complex emotions... it just doesn't compare to a love. On the surface you are right but you are missing the deeper emotional side of those periods of time.

That is really my only point. To the misc conversation that is starting about poly and sex vs the intentions of the person. I think you will find it pretty diverse. Some people are poly because they enjoy sex and love, and some people are poly because they just want the love, the sex doesn't need to be there. That POV is up to you guys, arguing it isn't going to get you very far. As someone who needs that sexual connection with romantic love... I stand clearly on one side of the fence, but I can understand the other side just fine.

For the record I do see a lot of poly people that claim to only want love and not be concerned for the sex... maybe its my cynical side, but I just can't believe them. Maybe if they were more honest about their needs they might find their preferred gender more approachable. I wonder how many of those guys having problems picking up poly women are having that problem because they aren't being honest about a portion of their intentions (with themselves or others).
 
For the record I do see a lot of poly people that claim to only want love and not be concerned for the sex... maybe its my cynical side, but I just can't believe them. Maybe if they were more honest about their needs they might find their preferred gender more approachable. I wonder how many of those guys having problems picking up poly women are having that problem because they aren't being honest about a portion of their intentions (with themselves or others).

Absolutely! Of course false claims of intention are not a poly issue, they're a relationship issue in general.

Of course in poly, there's a chance that if you get burnt you'll have your other lover(s) to go to for support and love.
 
In my head I can easily break out friendship and romantic love. I can then split it into crush, lust, puppy love and real long term love.

I can...but...sometimes the lines can get a little fuzzy for me when it comes to men. I am straight, but also feel we are attracted to who we are attracted to, and I have not met a woman that I have had a crush on or felt lust for like I have with men. I am not saying it would be impossible for me to be attracted that way to a woman, it just hasn't happened for me. With women I feel a different sort of love, a strong friendship and admiration and respect, and protective. As far as the men I have been attracted to, I think crush and lust go hand in hand for me. Lust being a strong desire to act upon an emotion or crush. It may start out as a crush, then go into a friendship if the crush does not go into lust, but I like the person. No chemistry I guess you could say. Or I may start as friendship, develop a crush then feel lust. I may start out as crush, move into lust, then friendship, or friends with benefits. I see the sequence of events can be different depending on the person.

I can understand where this can overlap. But it so doesn't work in the same way. Yes friendship can take away some of those times (or be included), but the emotional connection or removal isn't there. The time itself is very different, and even if there are complex emotions... it just doesn't compare to a love. On the surface you are right but you are missing the deeper emotional side of those periods of time.

I am of this belief as well, for me at least.
 
I want to add something regarding love and sex.

I watched the movie Black Snake Moan yesterday. It was fabulous! And one thing that struck me was the deep bonding relationship between Lazarus (Samuel L. Jackson) and Rae (Christina Ricci). They never had sex, and their love for each other was so beautiful, rich, deep (well, not at first, lol, but you need to watch the entire movie to get it). I think if they had sex it would have spoiled the movie for me. Their love was deeper than many who have romantic relationships with love and sex. It was just a movie, but I believe this type of love can exist between people.

Would one call themselves poly if they share that type of loving bond with someone without sex? While at the same time also have a sexual romantic loving relationship relationship (marriage or long-term partnership) with someone else? Or do all of the relationships have to include sex if one is to be considered poly? Some of you have touched on this....just throwing my thoughts out there.
 
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Would one call themselves poly if they share that type of loving bond with someone without sex? While at the same time also have a sexual romantic loving relationship relationship (marriage or long-term partnership) with someone else? Or do all of the relationships have to include sex if one is to be considered poly? Some of you have touched on this....just throwing my thoughts out there.

RedPepper has a NSBF (non sexual boyfriend), so maybe she'll chime in here ... I believe she's also tagged things with NSBF.

While it's not something I would find possible, I certainly believe in "emotional" cheating, so I see how this deep love that goes beyond friendship but has not been consumated (whatever the reason) fits into the poly spectrum.
 
I believe it depends. A lot of the time, it's about your partner as much as you. That is, if you're a man with a female long-term partner (say, a wife), she might object to your close friendship with another female just as much as she would object to a more traditional romantic relationship that involves sex.

Then, for her, you might be cheating, or emotionally cheating. Either way, you would have passed her boundaries. For her, you wouldn't be mono the way she understands it.

Incidentally, I think it's a shame people in mono relationship don't have as much incentive to communicate. With poly, you're kind of forced to do it at one point or another, but too many mono relationships just assume each on their own, and then get upset when the other party doesn't follow unspoken agreements (that were never there in the first place in their mind).

People seem to have that romantic notion that if you really love each other you'll have the same ideas about everything and therefore don't need to talk about them, especially if it's an "ugly" subject such as money or other partners. But it seems to me real intimacy is when you can discuss these things openly, and deal with the differences of opinion when they come up.
 
People seem to have that romantic notion that if you really love each other you'll have the same ideas about everything and therefore don't need to talk about them, especially if it's an "ugly" subject such as money or other partners. But it seems to me real intimacy is when you can discuss these things openly, and deal with the differences of opinion when they come up.

I certainly find such discussions to be as bonding as a good session in the sack! :D
 
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