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  #151  
Old 03-15-2010, 12:56 AM
Ceoli
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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
You missed the whole point. Or I am not clear ? One or the other.
There is NO argument ! This relates little or nothing to what has come before in this - or any other thread. I originally started it new but it was chosen to tag it on here which may be why a comment like this would boil forth. My reason for starting it new in the first place.
Since it was attached to a thread where a debate was happening, that's the lens I saw it in, I will take that lens off now and ask, why the need to point out the obvious as if it's not known? Has anyone ever said that new partners should be treated as completely equal to the existing partner right off the bat?

So where to start?

Start with insecurity. Most of the dysfunctional stuff that arises with a new relationship can pretty much be traced back to insecurity or bad communication.

Most of the prescriptive treatments and limits that seem to need to be set can be traced back to a need to protect a relationship. If a relationship needs protecting, that suggests that there is danger. If people are operating from a place of danger, then insecurity arises. This applies to all members, not just the primaries or just the secondaries.

Address insecurity and you go a long way towards making an open loving space where relationships can grow naturally with joy and without angst. At least that's been my experience on both sides of it.
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  #152  
Old 03-15-2010, 02:29 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I think that articles like Franklin's on the Secondary's Bill of Rights go a long way towards educating people joining in with one or both members of an existing relationship (and I hope I am wording that neutrally enough) in the sorts of things they need to think about and talk about so that they don't allow themselves to be doormats for the existing couple.
I like this. It puts some of the accountability on the person entering the relationship to protect themselves.

There are a lot of control-freaks out there, both mono and poly. They will dictate to their partners, their friends, their siblings, their children, about whom they're allowed to date/love, and how. They come up with "I'm just doing what's best for you/us" kinds of excuses. As disappointing as it is to have those attitudes so prevalent, it's our own responsibility to protect ourselves against such people and avoid them. My mother-in-law did everything in her power to keep her son from marrying me (she had him wrapped around her finger and didn't want to share him with anyone.) I could have let her drive me away (and how she tried) but I chose instead to shake my head and carry on with our wonderful relationship. And now she's dead and we're happily married, so WE WIN! TTTHHBBBTTT.
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  #153  
Old 03-15-2010, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I don't regret the big stinks I made, though hopefully no bridges were burned that can't be rebuilt, because for me it was necessary to challenge those ideas openly and explicitly in order to fully process them. Knowing how my mind works, I believe that without my participation in the discussion, I would not have become emotionally involved enough to care about the issue.
I certainly don't regret the the big stinks you made either. You've always raised good points that made me have to better organize my thoughts around them. I very much appreciate the dialogues we've engaged in so far.
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  #154  
Old 03-15-2010, 03:09 AM
MrsDeep MrsDeep is offline
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Im in my first poly relationship at the moment and it seemed like it was pulling teeth to get into this relationship. alittle backround.

Married almost 3 years, bi wanted a girlfriend. Finally found one, she is a les and only had Mono relationships.

She sees this as cheating, me trying to be with her. Plus she hates the word Secondary like second place in a race. I just wish there was a better word than secondary to reasure her. That secondary doesnt mean that she is any less loved by me, does such a better word exist to please my new girlfriend. And to make me feel better as well?
She is new to Poly as Im I. But I have been looking into this for awhile and knew this is what I wanted.
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  #155  
Old 03-15-2010, 12:05 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
This relates little or nothing to what has come before in this - or any other thread. I originally started it new but it was chosen to tag it on here which may be why a comment like this would boil forth. My reason for starting it new in the first place.

You quoted something from the earlier thread in message #151:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
I'll just grab this quote from one of the threads .........

Quote:
Wording a new relationship as "entering OUR relationship" implies that the new person is of a second-class status. They are not "entering your relationship" they are "starting or having a relationship with you and/or whoever". That's the kind of language construction indicating the subconscious thought-process that leads to "prescriptive" expectations.
I will refrain from editorializing about this for the time being.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 03-15-2010 at 01:38 PM. Reason: typo
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  #156  
Old 03-15-2010, 03:07 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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She is new to Poly as Im I. But I have been looking into this for awhile and knew this is what I wanted.
Here's an idea; stop making the expansion of your love about anything besides having more love. Having all of you sit down and talk is better than drowning a simple arrangement of multipile loves in a world of theorizations, ideaology. Is she happy with simply being called your girlfriend? If so then stick to it. The need to be fluent or apply terminology is irrelevant if you have a healthy relationship. That is what is important. Re-invent the wheel. Stick to enjoying love over stressing about conformity. It's comforting to be around like minded people but forcing yourself to conform to anyone's idea of a label is wasted energy. Focus on your relationship.

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  #157  
Old 03-15-2010, 03:43 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by MrsDeep View Post
She sees this as cheating, me trying to be with her.
I'd suggest that this is something that you all should work on - as long as she feels it's somehow "wrong" there is going to be a tension there. Have the three of you sat down and discussed this as a group?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsDeep View Post
Plus she hates the word Secondary like second place in a race.
Yes, that interpretation of the word is a nasty one, and if that is the only connotation that she takes from it, then I would avoid using it.

Why do you feel you need a word to describe it? Words can get loaded with other meanings, depending on people's backgrounds and filters. (Plenty of discussions on here can back that up!)

If she feels like she is in second place in your heart, then find out how - work together all three of you to make sure she feels respected and her needs are being met. She *is* going to feel like a bit of an outsider coming in because you have such an established relationship - it's important to make her feel like she isn't some add-on that can be discarded when convenient.

If she is content with the relationship and it's only the word that is bothering her, then just plain stop using the word.

If you need *something*, I have heard "OSO" = Other Significant Other, "girlfriend", "partner" - or just plain use her name. Instead of referring to her as "my secondary" just say "Julia" (or whatever her name is). If you feel the need to explain or describe what you are doing to others, don't use a "shorthand" term like secondary but describe what she means to you.

Does that help at all?
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  #158  
Old 03-15-2010, 03:48 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Originally Posted by MrsDeep View Post
Plus she hates the word Secondary like second place in a race. I just wish there was a better word than secondary to reasure her.
Yea MrsDeep, as Mono suggests, try not to get too wrapped up in terminology and miss more important things.
If you haven't read this whole thread I'd suggest it. There are likely others too if you searched the term.
I don't think anyone likes the term and it's implications, and it's used by most just as a shortcut in semi-technical, hierarchical discussions.

By all means avoid it whenever possible outside those type discussions where everyone clearly understands (sees beyond) the implications.

GS
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  #159  
Old 03-17-2010, 04:53 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by MrsDeep View Post
Im in my first poly relationship at the moment and it seemed like it was pulling teeth to get into this relationship. alittle backround.

Married almost 3 years, bi wanted a girlfriend. Finally found one, she is a les and only had Mono relationships.

She sees this as cheating, me trying to be with her. Plus she hates the word Secondary like second place in a race. I just wish there was a better word than secondary to reasure her. That secondary doesnt mean that she is any less loved by me, does such a better word exist to please my new girlfriend. And to make me feel better as well?
She is new to Poly as Im I. But I have been looking into this for awhile and knew this is what I wanted.
If the word "secondary" makes your girlfriend feel less important, then drop it like a dead fly. It's just a word and there's no reason to stick with it. I don't like it for my relationships either. It seems like the only purpose for such a word is to reassure the "primary" that they're "more important."

When talking about poly, I always like analogies to friendships. They're all just different kinds of relationships, after all. I have a best friend. But I don't go around calling everyone else my "secondary friends." How silly would that sound? So why would I have a "secondary girlfriend?"

A better word to describe her? How about simply "my girlfriend?" Any word that implies hierarchy is going to bring up the same feelings. If you yourself feel the need for distinction in the "level" of relationships, I think "Husband" and "Girlfriend" are descriptive enough.

As for her thinking it's cheating, the best way to resolve that problem is for her to go out for coffee with your husband to see that he's really ok with this and not just playing along. Other than that, it's just going to take time for her to become accustomed to the idea. When "converting" a monogamous person, it's important to remember that we poly folk have felt this way for much longer, sometimes all our lives, and even if we've only recently discovered that there's such a thing that other people do too, we've always felt that inclination.
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  #160  
Old 05-06-2010, 02:49 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Default What do they mean to you?

Primary/Secondary.

I was reading a thread on the new to poly board and noticed that the OP was against the terms, feeling that they meant that one person was "second class".

But another poster felt that it simply meant that his job was to help his beloved promote her marriage (he refered to himself as secondary).

I know RP considers Polynerdist and Mono to be primary partners to her, but Mono often says he is secondary to Polynerdist in HIS opinion.

I've considered both Maca and GG equally important *even using Mono's criteria* but often refer to GG as my secondary simply because it makes it clear for other people that he entered the romantic relationship second...

HE identifies himself as secondary BECAUSE Maca is my husband and he is not.............


So what do these words mean to YOU? In your relationships??

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