Squeeeeeeee! Pre-NRE...

samines

New member
(Advice going into my first serious relationship!)

Okay, so, I know there's a thread somewhere specifically for posting our own stories, and if this relationship goes anywhere I'll find that thread and put the updates there.
BUT, for now... well, I'll go into my story in a minute, but I'm pretty sure I could use any advice you've got. lol :)

I'm 18. I found out I was poly a few years ago when I fell in love with a couple (13 and 17 years older than me)... I was head over heels and told them I liked them when I was 16... well, a number of problems with that (I was a minor, they met me when I was 12, she was originally my teacher... yeah... they became my godparents...) but mainly, they thought of me as family and turned me down for anything else (ever. Followed by a lot of awkward silence and edgy couple years.)
Well, I'm pretty much past mooning over that at this point (I figured some background couldn't hurt, I think their rejection is part of why I'm so nervous now), but now I'm back in poly-lovesick-puppy-mode. New couple...

Well, there are some complications with this couple too. But aren't there always? Oh and apparently teachers are my type >.<
I don't want to use names, and they actually both have the same first initials. And last initials, obviously. So from now on he is A, and she is E. (second letter of their first names, lol)

A is a teacher at my community college. I haven't been in any of his classes, but it's possible I'll end up in one before I graduate. I know him from a couple of clubs, and because my uncle introduced me to A and E (and their two adorable kiddos) when I first moved to the area last fall.
E is his lovely wife, who I know just as well as I know him because she's at all the club meetings and events.

I've been crushing on A since sometime last fall, and I've considered them both very close friends (in the closeted "this person means so much to me but I'm probably just someone in the crowd"-way) and (have not totally been aware of it, but in retrospect) have been falling for them, but just as I was leaving town for the summer, things started to escalate.
E mentioned polyamory in passing, and asked me "don't you think it would be great" from a kids-having-many-parents angle. I didn't catch on at first, but before I left we met for ice-cream, and hugged a lot, and she told me that they loved me, and the next day when I was driving he texted me "We <3 U", and then the goofy-flirty-talk on facebook got a little beyond subtle (E suggested I read a book, but in process managed to say that she thinks about me when she read about gay sex, and to imply that I'm "incredible" and "all over the place"... again, in a sorta joking way, but doesn't that sound a *wee bit* flirty?)
Oh, and A wrote someone (it's addressed to "WL", but that's neither my initials or his wife's, I'm guessing it's short for a nickname, but whose??) a poem that's just too freakin' good to be true. Honestly, I think that's part of the reason I'm still not sure what their deal is- that poem is too good to be true.
It's gotten to the point where I'm pretty sure either 1) It is so obvious that the only reason I doubt it is because I'm afraid to get my hopes up (see the godparents-story above :( ), or 2) I am making the whole thing up and the only reason I believe it is because I want to. Pretty suck-y mental place to be, but we'll work it out, or talk it out, or something. (Although if anyone can tell me if it's 1 or 2, that'd be cool too lol) I mean, I'm nervous, but I'm not gonna let them get away just 'cause I'm scared. :eek:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What I really want advice about is... this would be my first relationship in 4 years. And it has a lot more potential to be serious than any of the earlier ones.
Yeah, I'm 18, and no, I'm not sure if I'll be with these people for the rest of my life... but I really, really like them, and I think I'm about ready to see where it can go. I don't know exactly what I want, and I'm trying to figure out what I want, and I can't say I know quite what to expect... just, if my situation prompted you to think of anything, please tell me! I could use advice, or encouragement, or even some well-deserved warnings, although I can't say I'm looking forward to warnings... just, I appreciate being able to bounce this off you guys! Any suggestions of what I should be thinking about?
 
Well to make it simple - I'd probably just email or ask them in person if they are polyamorous or in an open relationship, and if they said yes, I'd ask if one or both of them would be interested in dating me (or ask if either of them would like to go out with me). As you may find out the answer is yes or no, or only one of them is interested in you if they are poly, you won't really know your options until somebody sucks it up and says something.

I'm not big on mysteries or wondering about things, it makes too much work for my mind. I'd say life is too short to beat around the bush but I guess at your age you have plenty of time to do that if you want ;) I just imagine knowing is better than not knowing!

And there are a lot of tags on this forum marked *triads* which you should read if you haven't - and I've never been in one but from my inexperienced opinion I still think the advice to go slow is good, as the dynamic is so different from one on one dating.
 
You mention that A is a teacher at the community college you attend? I realize that you seem to know him and E outside of the college as well - the club you mentioned. I hate to be the cold water thrower but colleges often have fairly strict policies about teachers dating students. Yes, you are all adults but the presumption is that an potential power imbalance exists. And it may not matter if you never take a class with him at least in how the policy is concerned. An 'affair' with a student could really hurt him professionally and it is risky for you and E socially and professionally as well.

And I am curious if you have dated people not in a couple? I wonder if you have dating experience outside of being interested in a couple. Dating a 'singleton' is very helpful experience in dating, period. Dating is hard in general, relationships are hard in general) but you are leaping ahead orders of magnitude in difficulty. If you haven't dated someone before, been in a couple yourself, well, I'm going to be the old fart and suggest, maybe, you want to walk before you run.
 
You mention that A is a teacher at the community college you attend? I realize that you seem to know him and E outside of the college as well - the club you mentioned. I hate to be the cold water thrower but colleges often have fairly strict policies about teachers dating students. Yes, you are all adults but the presumption is that an potential power imbalance exists. And it may not matter if you never take a class with him at least in how the policy is concerned. An 'affair' with a student could really hurt him professionally and it is risky for you and E socially and professionally as well.

I was definitely hoping someone would address this. Oh and those clubs... are school clubs. Yeah....
I know, and I was very quietly falling for them while I sat in my corner, but I'm pretty sure that now *they* are hitting on *me*. And I don't care about my getting any sort of reputation- I think there's nothing wrong with it, and would be 100% willing to stand behind my choices (socially, professionally, whatever) if it came to it. Yes, I know it could be a HUGE deal for me, but I am poly, and I don't want to hide it. I'm a leader, I'm surrounded by accepting friends and family, and I tend to go head-on against policies and expectations that don't work for me.

And I think it's up to them to figure out what they think about their own social reputations, and if indeed they *are* hitting on me, then they're okay with it (okay, well, that's assuming that the older, more experienced people with more at stake have thought it through. I'll make sure to talk to them about it in case they haven't though...) I've also decided that I'm willing to date them in "secret" (as long as they both know it all, and I can still confide in family/trusted friends) if that was best, but things don't seem headed that way.


As far as his actual job, or his professional reputation... I would be prone to not risk that. But... I don't know, it's like something just doesn't add up. Now, I get that feeling every time someone actually seems to like me back (can you say *insecurity*) but... I'm just not sure what to say on this one. I'm falling for two people, and I get the impression they're falling for me, and when that happens, everything else seems to be so much less important than just being with those people.

I'd like to think through the consequences, but I'm so consumed by the idea that they actually like me that I don't know what to do. I mean... what, turn them down just because it's impractical? I don't want to!! I don't know what to do, other than -take is slow, -think about it A LOT, and -talk to them about it A LOT. Oh, and this whole thing is part of why I'm hesitant to make the first big move- if A makes the first move, I can assume he's thought through this. If E makes the first move, I can assume they've talked through it. If I make the first move... even if we all do like each other, I'm afraid I would be setting us up for deeper trouble than I really know how to deal with.


I really, really want this to happen... but I'm afraid to be responsible for starting it. I will own up to this and I don't care what ANYONE says about my being in a socially unacceptable, if loving, relationship- but I can't make that decision for A and E, and it seems like they've got the bigger decision to make.

I'm definitely not trying to brush off your points, I'm just trying to explain what I'm thinking. Please, do keep pushing at me, I need to figure this out...

And I am curious if you have dated people not in a couple? I wonder if you have dating experience outside of being interested in a couple. Dating a 'singleton' is very helpful experience in dating, period. Dating is hard in general, relationships are hard in general) but you are leaping ahead orders of magnitude in difficulty. If you haven't dated someone before, been in a couple yourself, well, I'm going to be the old fart and suggest, maybe, you want to walk before you run.

I dated:
-a guy in 5th grade (I liked him! For 3 years! And then he asked me out!... dated for most of the spring, we stopped being together cause his family kinda jumped up and moved across the country...)

-a guy in 6th? grade (I missed ^that guy, bought valentine chocolates for him without thinking about how I hadn't seen him in most of a year. Developed an oh-so-convenient spontaneous crush on my friend's on-again off-again boyfriend of 3ish years (off-again at the time) and asked him out, he accepted... dated for maybe a month or so, he broke up with me when I was at a dentist's appointment (I found out second-hand when I got back to school) and I realized when it didn't bother me that I really didn't like him. At all.)

-a guy in 9th grade (I thought he was cute, he really liked me & asked me out, I accepted... dated for two or three months, we finally went on *a date* and I realized there was no deep chemistry, I broke it off)


I also:
-had a "mondo crush" on a guy in 6th-7th-8th grade, talked to him in 9th grade after I moved, he started going out with a girl before I made a move (and still is with her, I think...)

-fell head over heels for a middle school teacher & her husband, who had become family friends, and eventually my godparents

-started to fall for a girl I met online about a year ago... this is actually still sorta ebb-and-flow because we both liked each other, but she was with her "soul mate" and is just recently single. But, like, she's actually DID (16 "headmates", parts of her that identify as separate people) so, this isn't really dating-level-1 either...



I haven't dated anyone in 4 years... I haven't dated anyone seriously... the last people I was actually serious with was the non-relationship with a couple, the last worthwhile person I dated was when I was 10...

What you're saying totally makes sense, but I seem to fall for couples. I think it's that I see them being in love with one another, and it's just so... adorable... and then I see them letting me into their little circle (as friends or whatever) and I just... fall. It doesn't make any sense to date someone I don't like, and right now the people I like are not the most convenient.

But, again, with the if-they-actually-like-me, I-don't-give-a-hoot...

(And again, I'm not brushing off your points, just trying to explain what I'm thinking...)
 
Well to make it simple - I'd probably just email or ask them in person if they are polyamorous or in an open relationship, and if they said yes, I'd ask if one or both of them would be interested in dating me (or ask if either of them would like to go out with me). As you may find out the answer is yes or no, or only one of them is interested in you if they are poly, you won't really know your options until somebody sucks it up and says something.

I'm not big on mysteries or wondering about things, it makes too much work for my mind. I'd say life is too short to beat around the bush but I guess at your age you have plenty of time to do that if you want ;) I just imagine knowing is better than not knowing!

I'm working on building up the courage to just ask them, but like I told opalescent- it seems like they have more at stake, what with the A-being-a-teacher... I guess I'm waiting for some sort of a sign from them, even if I do have to "make the first move".

It's taking a bit of effort to sort out the "I'm scared of rejection, I don't want to put myself out there" (which I'm actively fighting) from the "I'm good friends with these people, I don't want to make it awkward" (which I'm gonna have to get over) from the "This guy could get in trouble, I don't want to put him in that position" (which is a valid concern)... *sigh*

And there are a lot of tags on this forum marked *triads* which you should read if you haven't - and I've never been in one but from my inexperienced opinion I still think the advice to go slow is good, as the dynamic is so different from one on one dating.

Thank you, I'll look for some.

I don't have all that much experience with one-on-one dating, either...

Yeah, "go slow" is always good advice, and something I tend to be pretty stuck to (in the past it's taken me an average of 3-4 years from meeting someone and immediately liking them to the point where I make a move...) but I'm afraid that this time, I'm so afraid of letting this pass me by that I might be tempted to take it too fast.

And at the same time, it's going so fast! It hasn't even started and I'm already feeling overwhelmed. I've not been in a serious relationship! I'm feeling around in the dark here. Honestly, I just want it to start if it's going to, so that I can talk to them about all the swirly lovey-but-clueless thoughts I'm dealing with...
 
Teacher/Student Relationships

Thought I'd put my two cents in about the teacher/student dynamic. One of my close girlfriends started a relationship with one of her profs in university, and he looked into how to protect his professional relationship while they were dating. At their particular university there was a form that could be filled out that took care of the legal consent involved in recognizing their relationship. They ended up deciding to keep their relationship private, and she ended up not being his student for much longer - they're now happily married.

I just thought it would be good to know that there may be ways to handle that aspect of a budding relationship in a way that protects everyone and creates a feeling of responsibility and openness instead of shame or sneaking. Lots of people get squirrely about "positions of authority" and relationships overlapping, but to me that's like someone implying that you don't know who you are, or what you want and I think it's disrespectful for anyone to assume that about you. You have to follow your heart, and if you happen to crush on someone who is also your teacher, I think it's manageable.

It sounds like you're searching for the right way to tell/show them how you feel/what you want. Have you come up with some ideas that might accomplish this without feeling like you're moving too fast? I'm big on taking urgency out of important decisions - there's no rush except the hurrying that we do inside of ourselves - you got this! Take your time, and find what's right for you.
 
I've never really understood why it's okay for professors/instructors at colleges and universities to have close, personal relationships with students but it generally isn't well accepted if they are close, ROMANTIC relationships. I mean, does the fact that you love someone romantically impact your impartiality in professional arenas more than loving someone like a sibling/son/daughter/other family equivalent? Baffles me...

Like BP said, there are usually official channels to go through to have relationships acknowledged so that A could protect himself HOWEVER he is already married, so more than likely the college isn't going to accept it since it would not just be a student-teacher relationship, it would be an extramarital one (which, let's face it, most people are going to label an affair even if it isn't).

I also understand your desire to push through with it no matter what if A and/or E make a move, but you have to wonder if A is thinking clearly. If you are willing to rush into something saying "screw the consequences!" why wouldn't they? Crazy NRE sweeps everyone, so while he may be willing to risk professional credit right now, is he going to feel the same way in a year? Two years? Do you want to risk him having serious consequences to be with you and then regret it? You've got the right idea about talking, talking, and talking some more to make sure you're on the same page, but I just wanted to throw the possibility of him regretting it (not necessarily regretting YOU, but regretting impetuous action on a relationship with you) out there. Is that a hurt you are willing to risk?

Another think you may want to make sure they are aware of is you inexperience in dating as an adult. The less experience you have in serious, adult relationships the more likely you are to make mistakes. This isn't a bad thing, it's just the way it is. Experience brings the ability to cope with things more effectively. Luckily, you are reading up so you should avoid some of the mistakes or at least be able to handle them a bit easier! :)

There are a lot of issues here that you need to figure out for yourself, let them figure out for themselves, and then talk about and all of you figure out together! I wish you luck... I don't envy your position.
 
Thought I'd put my two cents in about the teacher/student dynamic. One of my close girlfriends started a relationship with one of her profs in university, and he looked into how to protect his professional relationship while they were dating. At their particular university there was a form that could be filled out that took care of the legal consent involved in recognizing their relationship. They ended up deciding to keep their relationship private, and she ended up not being his student for much longer - they're now happily married.

I just thought it would be good to know that there may be ways to handle that aspect of a budding relationship in a way that protects everyone and creates a feeling of responsibility and openness instead of shame or sneaking. Lots of people get squirrely about "positions of authority" and relationships overlapping, but to me that's like someone implying that you don't know who you are, or what you want and I think it's disrespectful for anyone to assume that about you. You have to follow your heart, and if you happen to crush on someone who is also your teacher, I think it's manageable.

As much as I appreciate what opalescent said- and I definitely am trying to think through that all...
I want to know more about this form. It's... it could be a missing part of my puzzle. :) I tried searching for it, but didn't find anything, can you tell me anything else about it? Maybe even the university's name could help?...

It's good to know that if it happens, there is a "right" way to go about it.

On a sidenote... I can't find a student/teacher relationship policy for our college, and it would probably seem suspicious if I asked someone about it. Anyone have any hints??

It sounds like you're searching for the right way to tell/show them how you feel/what you want. Have you come up with some ideas that might accomplish this without feeling like you're moving too fast? I'm big on taking urgency out of important decisions - there's no rush except the hurrying that we do inside of ourselves - you got this! Take your time, and find what's right for you.

Just reading that helped me to calm down a little. Let me go back a re-read it a couple more times...
:rolleyes:
Okay.
No, I haven't exactly come up with any ideas... part of my problem is, I really want physical intimacy to be a part of a relationship, a way to express love and even just daily emotions... I want someone to share my world with, ya know?... but I'm completely inexperienced (nothing, nada, zip.)... I want to explore it... but harping on that is pretty much a guarantee that I'll move too fast.
I do want to explore it, and I know they're respectful enough to take it at my pace... but, again, zero experience, and I guess I don't exactly what "taking it slow" is, because I've never taken it anywhere. I should just do what feels comfortable, right? That makes sense, but then........

The idea that someone wants to have a relationship with me- someone that I actually like back- suddenly I want to do everything their way, just lay everything out per their orders... it's not a good way to start a relationship, I know. But I'm just... scared of rejection. And I know that if we can't work a relationship out so everyone's comfortable, it just shouldn't happen at all. I think we will be able to work it out, it's just... it's funny, I think this stuff gets so much easier when I'm actually with the people I'm thinking of. Like now, I'm almost losing track of who they are, what I like about them, I'm projecting something onto them that's not nearly as good as they really are.

I don't know if I explained that well, but I know I can't be the only one who's like that. I'm so caught up in logic and nervousness and legal stuff that I'm loosing track of how incredible they really are. *sigh*
So after that introspective journey, to answer your question... yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm trying to figure out. And I don't really know what to say, except that I think I'll be able to figure it out while it's happening.

Although ideas on how to bring it up without putting A in an awkward professional position are greatly lacking.
 
On a sidenote... I can't find a student/teacher relationship policy for our college, and it would probably seem suspicious if I asked someone about it. Anyone have any hints??

I looked at my university's policy last year, as it happens.

At this one institution - and policies may vary - "amorous relationships" between faculty and undergraduate students are strictly forbidden. In fact, such a relationship is one of the few grounds on which tenure may be revoked.

Relationships between faculty and graduate students are strongly discouraged, but are treated as any other conflict of interest: if there is a relationship, it must be disclosed to someone higher in the chain of command, so steps may be taken to make sure the faculty member does not exercise any authority over the student in question.

This is not just a legal nicety, though, but a serious ethical issue; it's a matter of principle.

Faculty are trusted to make judgments about students' performance on the basis of academic criteria alone; if a personal relationship clouds that judgment (or has the potential to cloud that judgment, or even just appears as though it might cloud that judgment), it is a basic failure of professional responsibility.

It's a hard fact of being a professional: when you are in a position of authority based on trust, you cannot have just any kind of relationship with just anyone, no matter how much you want to. You cannot just "follow your heart" . . . not if you want to remain in a position of authority based on trust.

And this doesn't just apply to "amorous" relationships. There's a very useful engineering ethics case that involves an invitation to play golf at a private country club . . . which leads to a serious, full-blown conflict of interest.

On the personal side, I have to wonder how much trust and openness there can be in a relationship in which there is a real power imbalance. It seems to me motives would always be suspect: Does the student really love the prof, or only the status and possible advantage the prof might bring? Does the prof really love the student, or is the prof just getting off on the abuse of power?
 
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Ummmm, just my two cents.

All other issues aside...the fact that it is against most (if not all) school policies for a faculty member to be 'amorous' with students, this girl is only 18 and these supposed potential 'partners' of hers are her GODPARENTS?!?!?

Again, all other issues aside, isn't anyone else concerned about the health of this thought process or relationship??

Samines, you are 18! You are young, beautiful, full of life! Go live life, date whoever you want, and stop worrying about what some 30-something year old couple may or may not want from/with you. It's not worth the drama. :)
 
I've never really understood why it's okay for professors/instructors at colleges and universities to have close, personal relationships with students but it generally isn't well accepted if they are close, ROMANTIC relationships. I mean, does the fact that you love someone romantically impact your impartiality in professional arenas more than loving someone like a sibling/son/daughter/other family equivalent? Baffles me...

Haha, you know... I was just searching my school's website for a student-teacher dating policy (I figured "dating" wasn't the word they'd use, so I was searching variations of "student teacher relationship") and... I've yet to find one (maybe our school doesn't have a policy??) but it sure looked like they were telling me to go for it. Every mention of "relationship" was something like "...encourage faculty to built strong relationships with the community..." or "...allowing students and instructors to form close, supportive relationships..."
Well, I thought is was funny :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, I can see how there are differences... mainly, if there're two relationships going on, "student/teacher" and "child/parent" are fairly compatible... the obligations from each relationship might be tugging in different directions, but I don't think they'd really be "conflicting". In both cases, the teacher/parent does what's right/in the best interest of the student/child, and the student/child deals with it.

When it's a romantic relationship, it's supposed to be two peers on even ground. Sometimes you have to respect what your partner chooses, even if you think it's the wrong choice. That's where a "conflict of interests" comes in- as a teacher, you have the authority and the responsibility to overrule your student if necessary; as a partner, you can talk it through but ultimately your partner decides. If the line between being "the teacher" and being "the partner" gets blurred, even a little, it could be a huge problem.
In the same way, as a student, I respect and defer to my teachers(& other faculty at my school)... if that ever spilled over, even a little, into a partnership, I wouldn't be advocating for myself the way I need to.

(Let's just pause here for a minute... I'd like a cookie, and if that sounded "very mature" and "maybe you really have thought this through" I'd love to hear some encouragement.
Okay, moving on now.)

Like BP said, there are usually official channels to go through to have relationships acknowledged so that A could protect himself HOWEVER he is already married, so more than likely the college isn't going to accept it since it would not just be a student-teacher relationship, it would be an extramarital one (which, let's face it, most people are going to label an affair even if it isn't).

Yes, I expect they will. Which is one reason I'm glad to be on a poly forum where I can share the whole story...
What do we do about this? If we start a relationship, and if we decide we want to go about it "the right way" by informing the college... how should we react to the poly-hurdle?

I don't know how this works... do they give "special permission" to allow the relationship, or is it already our right to pursue a relationship, and informing the college is the proper way to cover our bums?
If they don't have veto power to begin with, I can't imagine them having veto power because it's extramarital. I can imagine them doing everything they could to stand in our way, but in theory we would have the upper hand, right?

I also understand your desire to push through with it no matter what if A and/or E make a move, but you have to wonder if A is thinking clearly. If you are willing to rush into something saying "screw the consequences!" why wouldn't they? Crazy NRE sweeps everyone, so while he may be willing to risk professional credit right now, is he going to feel the same way in a year? Two years? Do you want to risk him having serious consequences to be with you and then regret it? You've got the right idea about talking, talking, and talking some more to make sure you're on the same page, but I just wanted to throw the possibility of him regretting it (not necessarily regretting YOU, but regretting impetuous action on a relationship with you) out there. Is that a hurt you are willing to risk?

I got happy, just thinking about being wanted so much that A's not thinking clearly. *giggle* :D

Right! Serious issue to deal with here. Right.
No, I don't want that to happen. I don't want to be the cause of that, I don't want it to happen, I don't even want to risk it. I want to do this the right way. I believe that we have every right to pursue this relationship, and I'm willing to jump through whatever hoops are necessary to have it recognized as such. Of course, if A & E want any sense of privacy, that'll limit the options some, but I'll let them reign me in when we talk this through.

I guess the problem comes when we have to compromise... between privacy and advocacy, between doing the accepted thing and doing what we want, between the practical thing and the right thing... possibly between doing what I want, and what A wants, and what E wants, although hopefully we'll be close to the same page...
I don't know, I don't know where I'd draw the line. On any of it. But I swear up and down that I'm trying to figure it out, that I won't just throw the consequences out the window.

Another think you may want to make sure they are aware of is you inexperience in dating as an adult. The less experience you have in serious, adult relationships the more likely you are to make mistakes. This isn't a bad thing, it's just the way it is. Experience brings the ability to cope with things more effectively. Luckily, you are reading up so you should avoid some of the mistakes or at least be able to handle them a bit easier! :)

It's actually nice that you pointed this out... I'm very much buried in how young and inexperienced and naive (well, maybe not so much that, lol) I am... but you're right, it's not a bad thing. It's just another thing, another thing to think about and talk about and remember.

There are a lot of issues here that you need to figure out for yourself, let them figure out for themselves, and then talk about and all of you figure out together! I wish you luck... I don't envy your position.

Definitely are. :eek: I'm not so upset with my position, though... I think it'll work out. I'm still waiting for some... sign... the "things are escalating" was short-lived, everything dropped off and I'm suddenly confused. Of course, my mind is going a mile a minute with all this stuff to think through, so it feels like "forever" but I guess it's only been a couple days since the last borderline-flirting.
Anyhow, that is the more frustrating part right now- still not knowing if this is all in my head. I know all this other stuff is important... but it's not such a big deal, if someones love me :) All this advice is definitely part of the process, but in the end I'm sure we'll figure it out.
 
I didn't quote your whole post, because I'm not sure how to respond to parts of it. But I promise I did read, and I am really trying to consider, all of it.
This part I can say something about, though...

On the personal side, I have to wonder how much trust and openness there can be in a relationship in which there is a real power imbalance. It seems to me motives would always be suspect: Does the student really love the prof, or only the status and possible advantage the prof might bring? Does the prof really love the student, or is the prof just getting off on the abuse of power?

I definitely hear what you're saying, but it barely applies to my situation, as far as I can tell.
I'm not in A's class, and although it sounded interesting, it's an elective I can definitely skip it if it means a relationship with A and/or E. A's not a department head or an administrator. He's the advisor for multiple clubs I'm in but the student/advisor dynamic is a lot more flexible than the student/teacher one, it's a lot more of a partnership from the onset.

Honestly, I see is very little power imbalance or ulterior advantage to this particular relationship, if it happens. The biggest thing would probably be time-management- I already ask A for help with a lot of events and ideas I've tried to pull together, and I wouldn't want something as stupid as a college luncheon (well, the favor-asking that goes with that stuff) to screw up our relationship. But we can talk that through, and it really wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to take a step back from organizing campus stuff together. I can definitely find another teacher as a platonic friend so that A isn't my go-to faculty guy.
 
Ummmm, just my two cents.

All other issues aside...the fact that it is against most (if not all) school policies for a faculty member to be 'amorous' with students, this girl is only 18 and these supposed potential 'partners' of hers are her GODPARENTS?!?!?

Oh, nope, that is the couple that already turned me down. Two years ago.
And btw, I didn't grow up with them as my godparents. I met them when I was already in puberty (barely, but nonetheless at that mental/emotional point) and they became my godparents because we had a very tight, but yet-undefined, relationship.

Again, all other issues aside, isn't anyone else concerned about the health of this thought process or relationship??

I've actually had to think this through a little too, so anyone who has an answer please shout it out.
Try to explain exactly what's wrong with it though, (setting aside the godparents thing, possibly re-reading at least the OP) because I came to the conclusion that no: it's somewhat odd, and quite inconvenient, but it's not unhealthy.

Samines, you are 18! You are young, beautiful, full of life! Go live life, date whoever you want, and stop worrying about what some 30-something year old couple may or may not want from/with you. It's not worth the drama. :)

I... know... but...
This is who I want to date.

I know on some level it sounds like I'm hung up on some issue, like I'm looking for someone to use me and protect me, but these people are incredible. They're kind, they're adorable, I get this giggly-lovey-butterfly feeling when I see them, or talk to them, or hear their voices from across the room... I don't know where it's going, and I'm not trying to pin myself into some lifetime without exploring everything else that's out there for me, but I'm falling for them. So it is totally worth whatever it takes, just for a chance to try to make it work.
:eek:

(Oh, and remember... I'm a teenager. Drama follows me EVERYWHERE. This is nothing special on the drama-scale.)
 
(Oh, and remember... I'm a teenager. Drama follows me EVERYWHERE. This is nothing special on the drama-scale.)


This worries me. Drama didn't follow me when I was a teenager. I purposefully separated myself from drama in high school and by the time I got to college I was done with it. Sure, there are bits of drama that can come up in various relationships but if a relationship = drama more often than not, I'm out. It's not worth it. There are some people that I've had in my life that I have loved dearly, but I had to tell them that I could NOT have their drama-filled influence in my life. They chose drama over me. I'm okay with that. I miss them, but overall my life is better because of it.
 
I'm not in A's class, and although it sounded interesting, it's an elective I can definitely skip it if it means a relationship with A and/or E. A's not a department head or an administrator. He's the advisor for multiple clubs I'm in but the student/advisor dynamic is a lot more flexible than the student/teacher one, it's a lot more of a partnership from the onset.

Honestly, I see is very little power imbalance or ulterior advantage to this particular relationship, if it happens. The biggest thing would probably be time-management- I already ask A for help with a lot of events and ideas I've tried to pull together, and I wouldn't want something as stupid as a college luncheon (well, the favor-asking that goes with that stuff) to screw up our relationship. But we can talk that through, and it really wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to take a step back from organizing campus stuff together. I can definitely find another teacher as a platonic friend so that A isn't my go-to faculty guy.

It does change things - very slightly - that A is not in a direct supervisory role over you.

Even so, the power imbalance exists, and it is real, because of the institutional context in which you interact.

You see, conflict of interest isn't just something that can be worked out between the individuals in a relationship. It's a matter of context.

To be a member of a college or university faculty is to take on a particular role, one that has many benefits, but one that also brings with it serious responsibilities. Other people - students, parents, colleagues, the administration, and the broader public - have certain reasonable expectations of people who fill those particular roles.

One of those is that I not allow outside relationships - personal, financial, or whatever - to cloud, or potentially cloud, or even seem to cloud my professional judgment. If I come across to students, parents, colleagues, etc., as the kind of person who would pursue a sexual relationship with an undergraduate student - any undergraduate student, not just the ones currently in my classes! - then I will seem less worthy of the trust placed in me, and my department and my institution would be tarnished accordingly.

Why should parents allow their children - whose arrival at "the age of consent" is a mere legal convention unconnected to the reality of neurological development - to attend a university at which lecherous old profs are to be found?

It doesn't even matter if the prof really is lecherous. Where professional ethics is concerned, the appearance of wrongdoing can be as serious as the reality.

In my case, I work at a state university, so I am in effect an officer of the state in which I reside. The chain of command runs from me, to my department head, to the dean, through the provost, and from there all the way up to the Governor himself! I have obligations to my institution, the state, and even my profession in addition to my obligation to my students to treat them each fairly and equally, without playing favorites (or even seeming to be the sort of person who could play favorites)!

My own desires, the promptings of my heart, don't even enter into it, let alone any deal I might privately try to work out with a particular student.

You brought up the parent/child relationship in connection with the teacher/student relationship. The two really are quite different, and the obligations of each can easily come into conflict. I would not allow one of my children to take a class I was teaching, because there is a conflict in the way I would think about "their best interests" in the two different roles.

As a parent, I may be expected to place my child's interest ahead of the interests of other children; that's what parents do. As a teacher, I am reasonably expected to treat all my students equally, and not even appear to do otherwise, and also to take into account my institution's interest in having meaningful grades attached to meaningful degrees.

Finally, even if A has no direct supervisory role over you, he still has authority where you are concerned. Suppose he ended up on a faculty committee that considers petitions from students, and you need to file a petition. Or suppose he is involved in developing curricular policies that would have a direct affect on your course of study. Or, given the times, suppose he was involved in a decision to cut one or more programs from the academic offerings of your school, and your degree program was on the block. Or, suppose he ends up becoming Dean of Students, or even Provost.

Et, voila! Full-blown conflict of interest!

In the end, all these words come down to a simple point: It's not just about you, not even about you and him; it's about the context.
 
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This worries me. Drama didn't follow me when I was a teenager. I purposefully separated myself from drama in high school and by the time I got to college I was done with it. Sure, there are bits of drama that can come up in various relationships but if a relationship = drama more often than not, I'm out. It's not worth it. There are some people that I've had in my life that I have loved dearly, but I had to tell them that I could NOT have their drama-filled influence in my life. They chose drama over me. I'm okay with that. I miss them, but overall my life is better because of it.

This was entirely an off-hand comment.

Insecurity and... well, mostly my drama is insecurity... and we'll mention insecurity, for good measure...
It's not that drama is part of my relationships, it's that drama is part of my mind. And not so much that it's bad, I think.

It's just... growing up.

And I'm okay with it; it's because I'd rather jump head-first into a discussion like this and consider everything than to ignore it while I'm waiting for it to play out. It means my head's a little chaotic at times, but it's just the way I process things. With the bonus of being quite well-prepared when a situation does play out :)
 
Random Question

A couple of random thoughts that I had after reading more of your thread...

I understand that you're super into this couple, and that's a fantastic experience in itself already. I'm just wondering if you're aware of how many couples there are out there that would bend over backwards just to take you out on a date - did you know that you're called a "unicorn" in poly terminology? Just thought it might be worth mentioning, as so far it seems like both of your serious attractions have been to couples, and meeting a couple that has no authority over you, or responsibility (other than to treat you with love/respect, of course) over your life might be a more plausible set up to pursue relationship without societal encumbrances looming over your potential love. I definitely can see that now may not the time for this, as you've developed feelings for this particular couple, but I do think that it's worth mentioning as food for thought.

Another thought I had was: If the three of you end up pursuing a relationship with each other, and it grows serious, do you think that you would be willing to change schools to protect A's professional status? I totally blanked on what km pointed out: He's already married, so said form would probably not do a lot of good. Sorry for not putting 2 and 2 together in regards to that/giving you false hope.:( This is kind of putting the cart before the horse, but it might be worth giving some thought to.

I can totally understand the fear of rejection, but I also think that there is a lot of power in having all the information, and the only way to have that information is to be honest and communicate your feelings to them.
 
Ummmm, just my two cents.

All other issues aside...the fact that it is against most (if not all) school policies for a faculty member to be 'amorous' with students, this girl is only 18 and these supposed potential 'partners' of hers are her GODPARENTS?!?!?

Again, all other issues aside, isn't anyone else concerned about the health of this thought process or relationship??

Samines, you are 18! You are young, beautiful, full of life! Go live life, date whoever you want, and stop worrying about what some 30-something year old couple may or may not want from/with you. It's not worth the drama. :)

No, the first couple she was interested in, when she was 16, were her godparents. They turned her down. She is now interested in a professor and his wife at her college that she met through a school activity.
 
No, the first couple she was interested in, when she was 16, were her godparents. They turned her down. She is now interested in a professor and his wife at her college that she met through a school activity.

Well, I'm pretty much past mooning over that at this point (I figured some background couldn't hurt, I think their rejection is part of why I'm so nervous now), but now I'm back in poly-lovesick-puppy-mode. New couple...

Yes, I got that when I went back and reread the post. I missed two words "New Couple" at the end of a rambling paragraph. Thanks. :D

I still don't agree that someone who is 18 needs to be involved in the potential drama of 30-something's that teach at the school she attends.

Nobody wins if that goes south.

This worries me. Drama didn't follow me when I was a teenager. I purposefully separated myself from drama in high school and by the time I got to college I was done with it. Sure, there are bits of drama that can come up in various relationships but if a relationship = drama more often than not, I'm out. It's not worth it.

I'm with you there km34. I purposely separated myself from it too in high school, university and throughout my adult life. Seeking it and expecting it is asking for trouble.

I am not so quick to offer congrats to her on being poly. Is it really a realization at 18 that you are ploy? Isn't it more a function of being young and exploring what the world has to offer you? When I was 18, I dated multiple people too, but not because I was poly, it was just what we did when we were young. I now consider myself to be predominantly mono.

I just think that she could do better and have much more fun in the meantime. :D
 
I knew I was poly at 19, but didn't have a word for it yet. It was not an experiment or something I grew out of. Almost 12 years later, I'm still poly.

Personally, I'm glad that there are some teenagers who are becoming adults with the idea that there is not one right way to do relationships.
 
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