Polyamory and Virgins

Her vagina is a trophy now because she doesn't offer it up? I hope the OP has enough sense to ignore this sex-negative garbage.

Well, actually, Marcus, the "sex negativity" in this thread more comes from the OP than from london. In my opinion.

While the OP seems very nice and sweet, she is naive by her own admission, living in a fairy tale world where her soul mate prince will come on his steed and they will kiss and pet lightly and someday, maybe, put their genitalia together, perhaps after her father sends him on a dragon slaying quest to earn her love and prove his worth. It's all very sanitized.

Reminds me of the "Promise Ring" culture of chastity actually, where teens promise their parents they will not have sex until marriage. That has been satirized enough in popular culture so I will leave it alone.
 
It's not a monogamous problem at all. Polyamory involves having multiple loves, right? Multiple romantic relationships? I mean nobody in a healthy monogamous relationship had a limit on how many non romantic relationships they can have. Well for me, and a sizeable amount of the population, regardless of their relationship orientation, need sex for a relationship to fall under the romantic category, to include the possibility of love. I know some people don't, and I know that some people who would feel that way if they had to have monogamous relationships for whatever reason. Ie, as you said polyamory offers the opportunity for you to get your needs met from more than one source. But, they have the ability to feel romantically for someone they do not have sex with. I don't. Many people don't. So a relationship without sex would only ever be a friendship.

Tl;dr - that suggests to me that you can love people you're not fucking, I can't, so they'd only ever be a friend.
 
There are so many opinions here, wow.

I was going for opinions about virginity in general, and I'm gonna ask you guys to please refrain from stating what you think I meant as the OP.

Sex is not a prize or trophy to be won. It's an intimate act that displays closeness. I'm not going to kiss somebody until I decide I enjoy their company in a romantic context, so why would I have sex with someone until I decided I enjoyed their romantic company enough that I wanted to do that?

I am always upfront about it. I tell people when I start dating them that I'm a virgin and as of yet not ready to have sex. If they deem it important to them and want to date someone they can have sex with right away, they can leave. It's their choice, not mine.

And my decision isn't all about romance, it's partly safety. Birth control and condoms don't work 100%, and I would love to avoid STIs and unwanted pregnancy. I want to be sure I can trust someone enough to always use safe sex practices when I decide I'm ready for it.

I'm not asking anyone for anything. Sex is important to me. Intimacy is important to me. I don't think it's a high standard at all to ask someone to wait until I trust them before I think about having sex with them, especially considering I've never had it. Even if I wasn't a virgin, I would probably wait a while until I started having sex in a relationship.

And where did this 2-3 year figure come from? I never said that specifically. I could wait a couple years or a couple months before thinking about sex with someone, it all depends on the people in the relationship. I had a boyfriend of two years I never had sex with, but I've been with my girlfriend five months and I trust her more than I ever trusted my ex boyfriend. It's all depends.

I survived my whole early teenage years with a lot of sexual desire, but I never suffered from not having sex. My relationships were incredibly fulfilling. Sex wasn't the reason for my two major break ups. If sex matters so much to someone that they don't want to date me, that's on them, not me. Yes, it's pleasurable. Yes, it's a heck of a lot more pleasurable with other people. That doesn't mean I need it to have amazing romantic relationships filled with love, dedication, and physical closeness.

By the by, I was curious about polyamorous views on this because I'm coming at it from a monogamous standpoint. I'm polycurious right now, but I was raised to think of monogamy when determining who to have sex with and why.
 
Double response, I'm not waiting for a White Knight on his Mighty Steed.

I just want someone I feel close to and trust. I am very sure the first person I have sex with will probably not be the last. I used to be waiting for marriage and I dumped that ideal because I realized it was silly to me. Do I have to justify waiting for someone I love enough to want sex with?
 
But, they have the ability to feel romantically for someone they do not have sex with. I don't. Many people don't. So a relationship without sex would only ever be a friendship.

I was not making an argument about what you need to be in a romantic relationship. You've made your list of requirements known. I'm sure that "many people" would not consider any relationship which did not involve penis-in-vagina penetration. You and "many people" are entitled to live your lives how you would like.

I was making an argument that the OP is not doing anything unreasonably selfish by deciding what she does with her body any more than you and "many people" are.

Tl;dr - that suggests to me that you can love people you're not fucking, I can't, so they'd only ever be a friend.

For you and "many people", but this in no way supports your assertion that the OP is being unreasonably selfish or that she is treating her vagina as some kind of trophy.

Mag said:
Well, actually, Marcus, the "sex negativity" in this thread more comes from the OP than from london. In my opinion.

So wait, deciding not to have sex for a period of time into a relationship is sex negative? That is, a period of time which would appear to be too long for "many people" as outside viewers.

I didn't realize it meant you HAD to have sex with people in the allotted time period. Just so I'm clear, because I'm sex-positive, how long to I need to wait before I start calling my new girlfriend unreasonably selfish and shame her into having sex with me if she doesn't offer it up? Should I tell her she's being childish and using her vagina as a trophy on our first date? I just want to make sure I'm doing it according to the rules.
 
Now that I'm older, I know marriage isn't required for sex to be special and full of meaning, but I still want to wait until I've been with someone several years and trust them completely before I think about engaging in sex with anyone.

And where did this 2-3 year figure come from? I never said that specifically. I could wait a couple years or a couple months before thinking about sex with someone

Several years means 3-5 years to most people.
 
It's always fascinating to me how OPs here often end up acting as Rorschach tests for those who respond. That's true of me as much as anyone else of course. Anyway, my point being, dont take any of it too much to heart, OP, or feel like you need to defend or justify yourself.
 
I didn't realize it meant you HAD to have sex with people in the allotted time period. Just so I'm clear, because I'm sex-positive, how long to I need to wait before I start calling my new girlfriend unreasonably selfish and shame her into having sex with me if she doesn't offer it up? Should I tell her she's being childish and using her vagina as a trophy on our first date? I just want to make sure I'm doing it according to the rules.

I don't respond to sarcasm.
 
Am I nuts for wading into the minefield?

I need to trust someone before being intimate with them as well (although it's not as cut-and-dry as genital contact) - it's more of a vulnerability thing for me. If a potential partner (and this is mostly speculative, since I've had TWO partners over my entire life) were to need sexual intimacy before I was ready to give it, and it became an issue, okay then - our priorities are different, and let's move our separate ways. It's only selfish if I try to make them hang around, or string them along for my sake.

I would say, though, that if I had a partner who still didn't trust me enough to be intimate with me after a year or so (or even a few months), I would want to know what the issue was - is it a trust issue that can be fixed, is it a hurdle the other person can't get over, am I just not trustworthy enough, period, is it fear in general of making that next step, or what? I wouldn't want to be left in limbo.

I had a friend who was nine months into a relationship, and the girl wouldn't even kiss him. He wondered what the hell was wrong with him, and it was a real hit to his self-esteem. It took some cajoling from me and other friends to say that yeah, this isn't normal and you guys need to TALK.

I don't think you need to justify yourself, but if you end up months into a relationship, it should definitely rate some discussion.
 
All right, I'm gonna see if I can make this my last reply.

Yes, I said I would wait a few years, so I did go back on my own word. Several years is my timeframe because that's how long my serious relationships have lasted before other issues got in the way.

I still think it depends on the person I'm with, but in general, I want to know the relationship has a solid foundation that won't crack when there is a big issue, related to the bedroom or not. I would prefer a solid foundation be a few years, because I'm not casual about romance. If I love the person a lot, I can be flexible on my timeframe, but I also want to avoid new love and lust clouding my decisions. And to me, it's comparable to any part of a relationship. I wait until I like someone before going on a date. I wait until I have some romantic feelings before I start kissing and cuddling with them. And I'll wait until we've been together a while and I trust them before I have sex.

Waiting before I have sex with a person, my first time or not, is just something I feel I should do. Like I said, I have wonderful relationships with plenty of affection, and I'm up front with sex discussions. I'm not hiding anything or trying to test people.

And I'll say again, I was curious about opinions in general, so please don't drag my personal choices into this.
 
I think you're wise to know your own values and set some boundaries on when you're willing to be intimate with someone.

How sad that this world has become one where the mention of someone's promiscuity in another thread brings on finger wagging and warnings not to 'be judgmental,' yet mention of wanting to know someone well and trust them and know the relationship is solid before having sex brings on a number of judgments. :(

If we're going to be non-judgmental, we need to be non-judgmental. Or did I mistake the meaning of the word? Does it really mean, "You may not judge me or my values, but I may judge you?"
 
@Marcus & WhatHappened...

Pretty much down with what you said. Sex-positive has to mean encouraging people to have as much or as little sex in their lives as they want (provided it's all SSC, natch).

london's view is okay as a personal stance. Chai's view is okay as a personal stance. My own stance (lifetime virgin) is okay as a personal stance. All of them are compatible with sex-positivity just fine (heck, I actually do consider myself sex-positive, I just don't want any of it in my own life); none of them would be compatible with sex-positivity if one tried and turn them into a general rule.

TL;DR... Virgin shaming is just as sex-positive than slut shaming (i.e., not very).
 
Yes, I said I would wait a few years, so I did go back on my own word. Several years is my timeframe because that's how long my serious relationships have lasted before other issues got in the way.

Splitting hairs. It doesn't matter how long you personally think you need to wait before having sex with someone (if ever), or when you share your diary with them (if ever), or when you tell them that you believe you are the reincarnation of Jesse James (I'd get that one looked at though). You get to decide these things for yourself.

NOW I will say that you seem to hold an extreme viewpoint on either sex or trust (or both). For your own sake I would suggest being ever vigilant in learning the nature of your feelings on these matters and being honest with yourself about their root motivation.
 
Would it bother you if someone was willing to wait, but wouldn't consider you to be in serious relationship until you started having sex? So you could do all the things you are comfortable with, date, be affectionate, everything you need to trust someone, but that person wouldn't consider you a girlfriend or necessary fulfil boyfriend obligations until you start having sex?
 
Would it bother you if someone was willing to wait, but wouldn't consider you to be in serious relationship until you started having sex?

Out of curiosity, so I can follow along; can you clarify what you mean by being "considered a girlfriend" and "fulfill boyfriend obligations"? Those are both really vague and could be interpreted countless different ways.

[I especially want to hear the list of boyfriend obligations]
 
Me, I like fucking. I started having sex at age 14 and have enjoyed myself immensely for almost 40 years now (wow!). I admit that I have been known to fuck a guy on the first date. Sometimes I hold out and wait til the third date. Usually I can't wait longer than that. I've made some idiotic choices over the years, but even when I was young, I knew I was learning about myself. And having fun.

Does this mean I am indescriminate or undiscerning? No. I, too, prefer to have sex only with people I trust and care about. However, I am a very good judge of people -- this has been told to me many times in my work world, where I have to put together crews that work on intense projects together (filmmaking). Working on a film production is an intimate environment, and a variety of personalities get thrown together for a highly creative and intense purpose. Souls get bared, emotions run high, and we see what folks are made of on 16-hour workdays. I've had feedback from my crews that my projects were the most fun, cohesive, and smooth-running projects that they ever worked on. It's always said that on film productions, if something can go wrong, it will -- so the fact that my crews work so smoothly together is an indication that I know how to pick 'em!

So, it is a gift I have to be able to read people pretty well. I used to be naive but over the years have developed good intuition. And that means that, sometimes, I am willing to jump in the sack and get it on with someone before I really know them well. Perhaps I trust much more quickly than most, but I don't need to know someone's secrets, family history, favorite color, or even his last name before boinking him. That's just me. But I do have to like him, care about him in some way, and have a sense that I can trust them.

I don't see much difference between me and the OP - we just have different ideas of how long it takes to trust someone.

ChaiLatteWriter, you do come across as very intelligent and well-spoken, but the fact remains that you are young and inexperienced. It would only make sense that, while formulating your rules or disciplines for your life, you realize they could change someday as you change and grow as a person. Your views will probably change in response to your experiences, and it does sound like there is a romantic naivete at work here. Be that as it may, it's your life and you are free to live it as you see fit.

You wanted to know what kinds of responses you would get if you were to seek multiple relationships and still wish to remain a virgin. Sure, if you go to poly events in hopes of meeting polyfolk, there will always be a few schmucks who just wanna get into your pants. However, my sense is that there are all kinds of people out there and if you are honest and forthright and confident, there are plenty of polyfolk out there who will be attracted to you for numerous reasons beyond whether or not you are willing to engage in genital-to-genital contact with them.
 
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I just think that your obligations to a friend is different to that of a partner. You still have obligations, but in terms of input into decisions about the future, it would be more asking their opinion. I wouldn't consider my friendships when considering a game changing situation whereas I would consider how they'd impact on my romantic relationships.
 
By the by, I was curious about polyamorous views on this because I'm coming at it from a monogamous standpoint. I'm polycurious right now, but I was raised to think of monogamy when determining who to have sex with and why.

What an engaging discussion... love the spirited opinions.

To be honest I totally understand. I was 22 yrs old until I had sex the first time, to whom eventually become my wife. I wanted to wait until I found "the one" as well and I was lucky it happened the way I had planned. Out of all my friends I was the only virgin left. Until last year my wife was the only person I ever had sex with.

For me your comment of waiting 2-3 years is perplexing... when you eventually find that person, I bet my left nut it will be a MUCH shorter time frame.

However, you being Polycurious is curiosity itself. You are very well spoken by the way... way to go in getting a fun topic started :)
 
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