Polyamorous girlfriend wants to see ex-boyfriend...am I right to feel uneasy?

Chupacabra

New member
I will attempt to keep this short and sweet.

I just recently entered a relationship with a girl I've known for a while. A while back, this girl was dumped by a long-term boyfriend with whom she was monogamous with. About six months later (December 23rd), we started dating.

Prior to me asking her out, she said she had come out as poly. Now, I'll be honest, I had some trouble accepting this. But, in the end, I realized I would be willing to compromise since I had quite an interest in her. We held a discussion about what boundaries we should set if we were to enter a relationship. This quickly turned into an argument when she said she wanted to date her ex on the side.

I told her I would not be alright with this. I would feel threatened that he, as a secondary, was already loved while I, as a Primary, was just starting out with her. She even admitted that she still loved him but did not yet feel the same way for me. I did not see how I could be a Primary while she felt stronger feelings for her secondary...I felt I would soon default to being the extra man to their relationship.

After a couple of days, she told me to forget about her ex. She wanted me and she was willing to drop her desire for him as a secondary. We set new boundaries that said she could see one man and one woman on the side, and, after we both agreed, we commenced out relationship. Things went swimmingly for a week or two.

But just last night, she begged me to let her date her ex. She was pleading and bargaining. And when I told her "No," she continued on. She is very set on dating him (her tenacity itself in this matter makes me uneasy about how it will turn out). She wants to give up her side of the open relationship; she's willing to settle for just dating me and him. But dating him is a necessity. Nevermind the fact that his is what held us up from dating originally, and the only reason we currently are is that she agreed to avoid dating him. I feel almost insulted that, after making such an important agreement, she waited for a couple of weeks before bringing it up again to make it more difficult for me to tell he she can't.

I also still feel threatened. I worry that I will default to being the secondary and that he will become the Primary...perhaps not purposefully, but unintentionally and gradually. She said she would drop him in a second if, after a trial period, I still felt uneasy. But at this point I'm not sure if she would even listen to that, since she's acted about our agreement very lazily.

Am I right to feel threatened if she dates him? What do I do here?
 
Am I right to feel threatened if she dates him? What do I do here?

I know that's not fun to feel, but it isn't a matter of your feelings being "right" or "wrong." You just FEEL them.

You don't do things you are not willing to do.

She said she would drop him in a second if, after a trial period, I still felt uneasy. But at this point I'm not sure if she would even listen to that, since she's acted about our agreement very lazily.

Don't blame ya for not trusting her to honor new agreement when she's not yet given enough time to honor previous agreement and keeps PUSHING boundaries even when you display discomfort. There is coming to compromise in a healthy way, and then there's pulling the rug out from under you and keep changing things on you whether things are painful for you or not.

You don't sound willing to entertain a "trial period" since you had the agreement in place to begin with. Are you willing to do this trial period thing?

You don't sound willing to stay in the relationship without the agreement. Are you willing to stay in the relationship WITHOUT the agreement she's not going to date the ex?

Where is your willingness at? What ARE you willing to do?

If you plan to stay and see -- could this help any?

If you plan to break up because it's more trouble than it is worth to you and just not a runner -- break up fast and clean. I know that stinks in the short term -- break ups are not known for being fun. But look out for your LONG TERM health and get you to the Healing Place ASAP. Don't drag out a break up. It helps nobody move on to the healing place to let it drag on.

Sometimes the choices in life are "this stinks. That stinks. Which stinks the least then?" You kinda have to answer it for yourself here. What you are willing to do and put up with, and what you are NOT willing to do and put up with.

Me? I am def not up for doing things I really do not want to do. That's not self respecting behavior.

I'm sorry you hurt. I hope you can sort yourself out and come to a decision that best serves your long term health and well being.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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Hi Chupacabra (good name)

Hmmm...

As GG said - there's no right or wrong. You feel the way you do.

I can certainly understand how you feel. You're not being unreasonable.

It's not really a good sign that she's made an agreement and then tried to swerve it to suit her. We are all human and we all make mistakes. It means that either she's a bit of a pushover and will make agreements in the moment to please someone, even if she knows that they don't suit her. Or, on the worst side, she wants what she wants and she's not entirely moral or honest.

That being said... she could have gone ahead and started dating the ex again, without telling you. So not all is lost.

I think there are a few things to consider here.

For me, if a primary/secondary model is adopted, it's going to take time.

To me... having a primary means that I value and cherish a particular person SO much that I actively *want* to make them a priority. Not because they have the title of being my girlfriend - but because they are compatible enough with me that I want to spend my life with them. I want to commit to them - so I'm willing to call them a primary, a priority, and consider how everything I do might affect that important relationship.

I wouldn't make a new lover a primary, if I were single. In my opinion, it's too soon.

For me, the idea of primary (priority) is completely defined by the idea that you have had time to want to make that commitment. It's a lovely idea to call someone a primary when you first start dating - but how is that going to work in practice? How are you going to want to put their needs above yours, when you haven't yet had enough time to even know if it's going to be a long term thing?

The issue of her ex complicates things.

I do feel that we can't force roles in people's lives. But roles can change by themselves. When I first met my girlfriend, she had a husband and a very important online partner. I never, ever thought I would make it to a primary level... but I fell for her so hard that I just wanted to be in her life. Over time, I became her primary. I became very important after just a few weeks - but to become a real, genuine, completely committed primary? That took at least 6 months - probably more like a year, in reality. Does that make sense?

From my perspective... whatever she wants is ok. Whatever you want is ok, too.

If she wants her ex (or rather, wants to see if they can work it out), that's what she wants. In my opinion, it's not really fair to say "nope, you can't have what you really want, because it makes me uncomfortable". For some people, poly isn't about just being able to date multiple people - it can very well be about having feelings for more than one *specific* person and wanting to explore both relationships at the same time.

If I were in your shoes? I'd either let the relationship go... or put it on hiatus, whilst she explore things with her ex... or continue, but not under a false security of the term 'primaries'. I genuinely don't think that will work, for what my opinion is worth. My leaning here would be to give it space for a few months, at least, and let her work out her thing with her ex, so that you don't get hurt in the crossfire.
 
How long did they date? What about an agreement to let the ex enter as a secondary after you two have been dating as long as they did? If that seems too long, maybe wait just a year or so, giving your own relationship time to get established. I generally like having at least 6 months between initiating new relationships so that I can actually connect to the new person. If she can't wait even that long he's clearly more important to her than you at this point, and you may as well focus your energy elsewhere if you're not ok being the secondary.
 
I just recently entered a relationship with a girl I've known for a while. A while back, this girl was dumped by a long-term boyfriend with whom she was monogamous with. About six months later (December 23rd), we started dating.

. . . she said she wanted to date her ex on the side.

I told her I would not be alright with this. I would feel threatened that he, as a secondary, was already loved while I, as a Primary, was just starting out with her. She even admitted that she still loved him but did not yet feel the same way for me. I did not see how I could be a Primary while she felt stronger feelings for her secondary...I felt I would soon default to being the extra man to their relationship.

. . . last night, she begged me to let her date her ex. She was pleading and bargaining. And when I told her "No," she continued on.

. . . I feel almost insulted that, after making such an important agreement, she waited for a couple of weeks before bringing it up again to make it more difficult for me to tell he she can't.

I also still feel threatened. I worry that I will default to being the secondary and that he will become the Primary...perhaps not purposefully, but unintentionally and gradually . . .

Am I right to feel threatened if she dates him? What do I do here?
Why so possessive, jealous, insulted, and insecure over someone you JUST STARTED dating??? It's only been since around Christmas - it is so early, not even a month, in the beginning stage!

I understand that you feel threatened by her dating an ex -- but I don't think you have any basis for it. I really don't see how it is your place to tell her whether she can date others, or whom she can date. Why would you or she think you have any authority over what she can and cannot do? I don't even know why she is asking and begging you for permission, when she is her own person and, even in the monogamous world, the beginning of dating someone is often non-monogamous until things develop into a commitment.

In reality, how many times have you even been with her in a dating sense? It's not even a month of seeing her, and you seem to have a completely unrealistic idea that you can boss her around.

Furthermore, if she does decide to see you both (which is totally her choice), and you decide to continue seeing her (because, ultimately, you can only decide for yourself), don't get caught up in worrying about who is primary and who is secondary, who is already loved and who is not - titles and labels don't mean anything in practice and all you can or should do is be the best person you can be and treat each other with respect and caring. Many poly people do not care about nor use labels like primary and secondary, and looking at them like some kind of indication of your place in someone's life is an illusion and a real trap.

I think you need to wake up to the reality of the situation.
 
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How long did they date? What about an agreement to let the ex enter as a secondary after you two have been dating as long as they did? If that seems too long, maybe wait just a year or so, giving your own relationship time to get established. I generally like having at least 6 months between initiating new relationships so that I can actually connect to the new person. If she can't wait even that long he's clearly more important to her than you at this point, and you may as well focus your energy elsewhere if you're not ok being the secondary.

I agree with this.

I think it's less about the labels of primary and secondary and more about wanting to start off on equal footing.

If you've been mono you're whole life and then suddenly enter a relationship were the other is poly it can be quite a lot to adjust to.

When I first got with my partner (H) he was still very much in love with his ex. At first, I found this difficult and had a lot of trouble.
The reason being start-of-new-relationship-anxiety. I am at my absolute most insecure and anxious at the start of a relationship, as I think, a lot of people are.

I think it would be reasonable for someone who has never experienced poly before to want to take it slow.

H and I, when we first started dating agreed that, for the first few months at least, he wouldn't date his ex and that we would ease into it as I adapted to being in a poly relationship. (for unrelated reasons, they didn't actually end up dating in the end, but the point stands)

I think expecting a mono individual to be okay with their partner dating an ex straight away, when they're only a few weeks into the relationship, is unrealistic. People need time to adjust.

I would suggest either trying to strike a compromise where, for a given number of months, they don't date/date platonically whilst you properly get to know each other. If this is isn't acceptable to her (or you) then it sounds like you have clashing hard limits, in which case, a break-up (as much as it sucks) would probably be the wisest option.
 
turtleheart said:
If she can't wait even that long he's clearly more important to her than you at this point, and you may as well focus your energy elsewhere if you're not ok being the secondary.

I agree -- but not just from the perspective of willing to only be the "primary" in a "primary-secondary" type open relationship model. If that is the ONLY model you want and she cannot offer you that, so be it.

But I'm coming from the perspective of her interpersonal relationship skills, not just the model she may want to share with you not lining up with the fav model you want for yourself.

Chupacabra, you do not have to be willing to do anything you do are just not willing to do. Not even "try it out first and see" like she pushes for. If you are not willing to "try and see" -- don't. Maybe you WOULD be willing to explore other open relationship models with her if you felt more comfortable and safe with her as your partner.

Here's something I wanted to lift up:

If the polyshipping agreements she made with you were not the right fit for her when you were in your negotiation talks before starting the new polyship together? Why is SHE agreeing to do things she's not really willing to do in the first place then? Giving you false information (a lie) just makes for more "messy" later -- as you are now experiencing. And it makes her seem kinda flaky, or not respectful. Def not raking in trustworthy points.

A partner you have a hard time trusting -- that's not sounding like great polyshipping partner to me. :(

It's only been since Dec 23 -- there's not a whole lot vested in here. If her polyship offer does not sound yummy to you, it is ok to just pass it up and nip it in the bud. Seek elsewhere. You could say "Thank you for your offer, but I do not want to participate."

"Compromise" does not mean going ahead and doing things you are not really willing to do. That's not self-respecting behavior. Why'd she do that? Make agreements to hard limits she's not willing to honor? And then asking you to be doing things YOU really do not want to do? When you clearly say "no?" That is not respectful, and that kind of behavior on her part does not help build up trust either.

You are unhappy here, and signing up to do stuff you do not want and are unwilling to do is supposed to lead to happy how? It just sounds like leading to more unhappy for yourself.

So she's agreeing to things she's really not willing to do. She's asking you to do same. Two people doing stuff they really don't want to be doing in relationship doesn't sound like healthy relationship to me.

If you still want to give it a try, get the agreements and expectations nailed down for sure. Make sure all agreements serve the wants, needs, and limits of all players. Agree to your conflict resolution method. None of this Muppet Show chaos business. Play like Star Wars Jedi here or don't bother.

Sigh. I'm sorry things are hard for you. :(

But no matter what, choose what is best for your health and well being in the long term. It's on your to discern if this is worth the risks or not.

Galagirl
 
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But just last night, she begged me to let her date her ex. She was pleading and bargaining. And when I told her "No," she continued on.

Am I right to feel threatened if she dates him? What do I do here?

I'm with NYC on this. After less than 2 weeks, she feels like she has to plead and bargain your permission to do something in her own life? And you feel like you have the authority to tell her what she can and cannot do?

My husband and I have been married 3 years, together 6. Today, he asked my permission to do something (I forget what). My literal response was "I don't own you, you can do whatever you want." If I don't get to own my husband after 6 years and a marriage certificate, you sure as shit don't get to own your girlfriend after 2 weeks.

If you tried to pull something like that with me, back in my solo poly days, I'd have your ass booted out the door so fast you'd get whiplash. Consider yourself lucky she hasn't said good-bye, and get your act together.

Is it wrong to feel threatened? No. Does your insecurity make it ok to be possessive and domineering? Also no.

That doesn't mean you can't have boundaries. But if she wants to date her ex, it's her life. If you don't like it, don't be a part of it. That's what boundaries means.
 
I guess I should clarify that we've known each other for four years, during which we were VERY close friends. We became intimately involved around the beginning of December and made it official on the 23rd. During the majority of our friendship I was attracted to her and only just recently allowed myself to act on this.
 
I take it "intimately involved" means you become lovers?

That still doesn't change the basic conflict:

  • She wants to be in polyship with you and the ex.
  • You are willing to be in polyship with her, but not with the ex as a polyship partner.

Possible ways to go:

  • You and her stay together because she agrees to let go of the ex as a polyship partner. (She is not willing to do this either for a short while or a long while.)
  • You and her stay together because you agree to polyship with the ex. (You do not seem willing to do this either for a short while or a long while.)
  • You and her break up as dating partners/lovers, return to your friendship relationship instead:
    • This leaves her free to polyship with the ex because she accepts your unwilling to polyship with her and the ex. She lets go of wanting you in her polyship configuration. She continues her wanting you as her friend.
    • This leaves you free to polyship without the ex because you accept her unwilling to polyship with her without the ex. You let go of wanting her in your polyship configuration. You continue wanting her as your friend.

That's basically it. Note we haven't even entered the bit of "what does the EX even want?" Maybe ex doesn't want to be in polyship at all with either of you!
But that's on the ex to state.

YOU can only speak from your own willingness. So do not go doing things you are not willing to do just to be with her as her dating partner/lover. That's not the path to happy in the long term.

Again, I'm sorry you hurt. This isn't easy. But remember you can keep ON being friends. You were already friends before. Were friends while being dating partners/ lovers. You can keep ON being friends AFTER having been dating partners/lovers.

Just that the dating/lover bit may not work out here after all if she wants to change the agreements.

You both agreed to honor this:
  • You + Her + maybe her seeing another not-the-ex guy, her seeing another woman.

She asked you to change the agreement to the ex. fair enough. People can always ASK to renegotiate. It doesn't mean you get it. It means you get to ASK if your partners are up for it or not.

You say not willing to participate like that in a
  • You + her + the ex guy + another woman arrangement

She offered to close it down further to

  • Skip the woman. Just you + her + the ex arrangement, and a promise to drop the ex if after a trial run if you are not good with it.

You say you are not willing to participate like that. Given that she's not shown any follow through on previous agreements so far, what's trustworthy about her offering to agree to a NEW thing -- to drop him if you don't feel ok later? She has yet to build trust on her word with you.

She's "begging and pleading" now, rather giving you any other offers in negotiation. That is unflattering behavior. Rather than acting out, she could be calm about this and negotiate to a new offer or just terminate her relationship with you in a kind way because she wants to see the ex and you are not willing so it won't be a runner here. Be friends. Play like grown ups here.

Since she's willing to drop him at any time? It would be more trust building for her to offer:

  • Step 1: Just you and her for X amount of time first to help build trust in her agreement keeping. Then after X time passes, see at the next checkpoint if you are now more willing to participate in a polyship arrangement that includes her seeing the ex. You both check this out and agree to do the page 5 and page 6 things to help with the trust building and jealousy management all along.
  • Step 2: Just you + her + the ex arrangement, and a promise to drop the ex if after a trial run if you are not good with it. (Assuming ex wants to be in an arrangement like this! Be sure ex is up for this! Ex has a voice of his own. HE does not have to participate in things he does not want.)

But she's not giving you that option. Maybe she hasn't thought of it to be able to offer it. ( Is she assuming HE even wants to participate in all this in that blue way? Their previous arrangement was a monoship!)

If you are willing to try it in the blue, present that as your counter offer and see if the ex is down with that offer before all agree to fly under those colors. But do NOT present this to her as a counter offer unless you are really willing to try that on!

Given her offer on the table so far? The one of
  • You + her + the ex arrangement and a promise to drop the ex if after a trial run if you are not good with it.

Well, you are within your rights to say "Thank you for the offer. But I'm not willing to participate in that just like that. You are free to date him. But not date me concurrently in that polyship shape if that's the only offer on the table. You have not built enough trust with me in your agreement keeping for me to feel comfortable with that at this point in time. "

If she wants to date him, go on ahead. But she can't force you to date her while she dates him. Your willingness to do things is YOURS to decide.

Gotta keep it real here and do what is best for YOUR health.

So even if she's making it hard to keep on telling her "no, you are not willing to participate like that," stick with it.

Participate only in the things that you are willing to do and help you to feel happy and comfortable.

Not in things you are not willing to do and help you feel unhappy and uncomfortable. Why pick behavior that leads to unhappy and uncomfortable feelings? That makes no sense.

All relationships have some give and take. And yes, we grow when we are willing to take some risks and push our own boundaries a bit. But some risks we are just not willing to take because they push us too far too fast.

It is on you to discern if this offer and its risks is an offer you are or are not willing to take. If what she offers you is enough return on your investment.

So first up -- are you willing or not? Or could you be willing with qualifiers? What would those be?

If you need help developing a counter offer and need feedback on that -- post your counter offer draft then for people to help you refine that. (Mine in blue is just one example if you want to take it there.)

Otherwise walk away and take it to the break up option because you already know this is not going to feed you in they way you need feeding.

You don't control her. She also doesn't control you.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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I apologize for resurrecting this thread, but there have been new developments that are...troubling, to say the least.

Let me first say that, since my last post, I caved and gave in to her new terms. I told her to date him, but drop all other relations but him and I. Perhaps this was not the most self-respecting of decisions, but I simply crumbled. Perhaps if I hadn't and stood resolute, we would not have arrived at the current predicament.

This weakened compromise came about literally the night I posted last...the 7th. She texted her ex and put everything into motion, but he put her on the backburner for weeks. She waited on an answer, and even kept delaying the time when she would just say "Too late." On the 18th, he accepted. Now, up until this I tried to not think of it. When he accepted, all hell broke loose in my head. I felt uneasy, depressed, anxious, unsatisfactory. I had pretended it would not come to pass...and it did.

We fought the next day. It ended when she very passive aggressively said she'd be breaking up with him. I told her not to bother, I didn't want her to hate me; in some ways, that'd be worse.

Fast forward to last night. It was the night after our one month anniversary. Now, one of the things she promised not to do was to bring him up on her own. And what does she do? She (all smiles, no less) pulls out a love letter he wrote her while they were together. She shows it to a friend of hers and I (it's a beautiful letter) and says to me "Good luck topping this." And then goes further and says "And to add insult to injury, he's my secondary," as if we needed a reminder.

This hurt me deeply. It made me feel like I couldn't compete with him emotionally. Another fight between us broke out last night and we came very close to ending the relationship. When I asked her to break up with him, she said she'd resent me...which doesn't bode well for this so-called "trial period". She continuously says I'd hate anyone she dates when NONE of our arguments have been about polyamory; they've all centered around her ex.

I need advice. I don't want to break up with her...this is a last resort. I want to know how to handle this mentally and emotionally. How can I assert to myself that the amount of emotion she can invest in me can eventually equate to the massive amount of love she already feels for him?
 
Have you answered the question "Why don't I want to break up with somebody who's actions have led to so much turmoil, unhappiness and stress for me in just one month?"
 
I need advice. I don't want to break up with her...this is a last resort. I want to know how to handle this mentally and emotionally. How can I assert to myself that the amount of emotion she can invest in me can eventually equate to the massive amount of love she already feels for him?

Really, there is no way to assert such a thing because it may or may not even be true. No one can predict what their emotions will do in the future, no one can honestly promise to love you as much tomorrow as they do today. Oh sure, we all make such promises, and fully mean them at the time. But in reality, emotions change and we cannot always control them.

You need to realize that you did not "cave in" to her demands. While her communication leaves something to be desired, she's been basically telling you: "I'm going to start dating my ex. Get over it or leave." The fact that she would bring that into the relationship when she's not even sure if he's going to agree, and then to keep it on the table when he's on the fence about whether to agree... shows that she's got issues. Her issues, not yours, and there's nothing you can do to fix them.

This relationship seems dysfunctional. You seem to have an unrealistic sense of authority over her, in terms of whom she's allowed to date. She seems to be inconsiderate, e.g. implying that you'll never live up to the bar he's set with that love letter.

Of course she'll resent you if you try to end her other relationship. She's right to do so. You don't own her, you cannot control whom she has relationships with. I would say the same thing if you'd been married 20 years and only recently opened up; however, after only one month, that reality is a thousand fold.

You can only control you. She's made it plainly clear that she desires and intends to be in a relationship with that guy. Give up, immediately, on the possibility of him ever going anywhere, or of her being considerate of your feelings. Make a decision based on reality, not on what you'd like things to be. You are unhappy in this situation. You cannot change that situation. It may be possible to change the way you feel about them together, but you don't seem to be in the right place to do that. You're too attached to a specific outcome.

Yeah, breakups suck. But if she's treating you like this right now, after only a month, when she should still be in the honeymoon phase, why do you think it's going to improve with time?
 
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I am sorry you are hurting. :(

But here's the nutshell of all that:

  • I caved and gave into her new terms, even when I knew it was not what I wanted to do.

Don't beat yourself up over that. I'm sure you were hoping for the best and wanting to be loving toward her. But do try to see clearly here. I think your love for her may be clouding your best judgement for your own best healths and well being. You being loving toward her is not HER BEING LOVING TOWARD YOU.

In your post you list how she continues to break promises and treat you in rude ways:

  • passive aggressive behavior, fights
  • breaking promises about bringing up the ex
  • and knowing how you feel about the ex and how generous you have tried to be to work through it and include him in the polyship? Rubs your nose into it like it is a competition with that letter. For what? To stroke her own ego that she's so desirable?

Is this loving and kind behavior shown to you? No.

  • She is not showing behavior of a loving, kind partner (poly or otherwise). Partners do not choose behavior that hurt their loved ones.

You are only a month into this polyship and are reaping this heartache. My advice to you?

  • Could stop making choices for yourself where you do things you really do not want to do that undermine your own best healths.
  • Could choose to break up, and spare yourself more shenanigans. One month is plenty. You do not need more. I know you really don't want to do that either, but it IS choosing your own best healths. (When two choices stink, pick the healthier one for your long term well being! You have to put your own oxygen mask on.)

We fought the next day. It ended when she very passive aggressively said she'd be breaking up with him. I told her not to bother, I didn't want her to hate me; in some ways, that'd be worse.

You sticking around to prevent her "hating you" makes no sense. Her behavior already demonstrates that she does not value you, love you, or respect you. That is painful to hear, I am sure. :(

But mentally "running away" from that knowledge is hurting you MORE because you stick around for more bad treatment. Her words say one thing but her ACTIONS are another. Believe her ACTIONS. Her words lie. Get yourself out of the line of fire.

You cannot control her behavior. You can control yours. Putting you into situations that are rife with shenanigans with this untrustworthy person? That's not valuing your own well being.

You could choose to value yourself more. Just leave and skip all that mess and do the TLC you need to heal, and move forward to your next future happiness. Hopefully to a relationship that is NOT one where you are stuck in YUCK. :(

Again, I am sorry you are hurting. But please think about what you need to do to better care for your long term well being.

Galagirl
 
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I apologize for resurrecting this thread, but there have been new developments that are...troubling, to say the least.

Don't apologise - it's totally ok to have an ongoing story and most of us here are actually interested in developments. :)

Let me first say that, since my last post, I caved and gave in to her new terms. I told her to date him, but drop all other relations but him and I. Perhaps this was not the most self-respecting of decisions, but I simply crumbled. Perhaps if I hadn't and stood resolute, we would not have arrived at the current predicament.

Really though, poly isn't about saying "you can have this" or "you can't have that'. Perhaps it's just wording, but wording says a lot. You can't be poly and "tell" her to do anything. You can only communicate what *you* can deal with.

You can't stay and control her. You can only stay and offer your genuine limitations. Then she has a choice whether to stay, under those limitations, or leave.

We fought the next day. It ended when she very passive aggressively said she'd be breaking up with him. I told her not to bother, I didn't want her to hate me; in some ways, that'd be worse.

In all ways, it would be worse. There is no point being in a relationship that is based on control and resentment.

Now, one of the things she promised not to do was to bring him up on her own. And what does she do? She (all smiles, no less) pulls out a love letter he wrote her while they were together. She shows it to a friend of hers and I (it's a beautiful letter) and says to me "Good luck topping this." And then goes further and says "And to add insult to injury, he's my secondary," as if we needed a reminder.

If she genuinely said those words, man, what the hell are you doing with her?

My girlfriend is tactless as hell sometimes. She always lets things slip, she gives me too much information and she accidentally teases below the belt. I've heard her moon on about how sweet a guy is, how peaceful, how he soothes her, how another guy is so sexy. I even stumbled upon a conversation where she told her ex submissive that she couldn't talk to anyone the way she could talk to him, after I'd just moved in with her. I found *that* out of line ..... but this?? Even my GF would never do something like that. God, what the hell are you doing putting up with that? I cannot think of a single innocent explanation for it.

She's clearly either trying to find a way out, trying to push your buttons, or trying to show you that she's full of resentment.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be pulling her up on it - to be honest, I don't think I'd be sticking around. If I did stick around, it would be "two strikes and you are OUT".

I need advice. I don't want to break up with her...this is a last resort. I want to know how to handle this mentally and emotionally. How can I assert to myself that the amount of emotion she can invest in me can eventually equate to the massive amount of love she already feels for him?

I've got to be completely honest.... I don't think you have any hope of reassuring yourself. The initial reassurance has to come from your partner. If they don't give it, you aren't going to feel it. You also can't convince yourself, or assure yourself, that she will eventually feel the same way towards you, as she feels for him right now.

When I got involved with my girlfriend, as I said, she already had a husband and a secondary she was in love with. I *hoped* that one day, I might get to that level with her.... but I never expected it, or told myself I would. I just let things develop naturally.

This poly handout on insecurity is really useful. If you read through the page 5/6 things and you notice that she's not doing any of that stuff, pay attention. You can't succeed together in poly without nurturing. It's NOT all about you getting over your jealousy; it's about you getting over it and her HELPING you do that. http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

As a final note, I believe that relationships often continue the way that they start off. Especially if you don't hammer out the danger signs swiftly. When I met my current girlfriend, she had learnt bad arguing techniques after 10 years with her husband. During our very first fight, she was very rude to me, swore at me, ordered me around, told me to "get my ass over there NOW". I was nervous. I didn't want to rock the boat. I almost didn't protest. I almost went over there. But.... I didn't want that kind of behaviour to become the future of us. So, I stood up straight, got some balls, and said "I want to talk to you and sort this out, but there is no need to speak to me that way. I will come once you stop being rude." Two years later, I'm so glad that I did, because she's never, ever spoken to me quite that way again.

So, what are you going to do? Are you just going to feel (understandably) depressed and anxious, bury your head and attempt not to be insecure? What about the next time she upsets you? What about when you need a cuddle, or reassurance? Are you going to keep doing all the work on your own and torture yourself? Or are you going to stand up and say "hey, what was all that about with the letter? Why did you say that to me?"

You will only be treated as you allow yourself to be treated. If your relationship is two thirds bad to one third good, you might want to do some serious thinking honey.
 
I've got to be completely honest.... I don't think you have any hope of reassuring yourself. The initial reassurance has to come from your partner. If they don't give it, you aren't going to feel it.

Excellent point. It's like "How can I convince myself that this Pitbull isn't going to bite hand off?" when it's standing there, snarling at you and snapping at your hand.

As a final note, I believe that relationships often continue the way that they start off. Especially if you don't hammer out the danger signs swiftly.

Also a good point. By and large, relationships tend to degrade over time. It takes commitment and hard work from both partners to maintain them, and even more commitment and hard work to improve them. If both people aren't on board for that, improvement just ain't gonna happen.
 
As a final note, I believe that relationships often continue the way that they start off. Especially if you don't hammer out the danger signs swiftly. When I met my current girlfriend, she had learnt bad arguing techniques after 10 years with her husband. During our very first fight, she was very rude to me, swore at me, ordered me around, told me to "get my ass over there NOW". I was nervous. I didn't want to rock the boat. I almost didn't protest. I almost went over there. But.... I didn't want that kind of behaviour to become the future of us. So, I stood up straight, got some balls, and said "I want to talk to you and sort this out, but there is no need to speak to me that way. I will come once you stop being rude." Two years later, I'm so glad that I did, because she's never, ever spoken to me quite that way again.
[...]
You will only be treated as you allow yourself to be treated.

This is one of the best examples I've ever seen of the point:
We teach people how to treat us.

thanks, sparklepop. :)
 
I think you have to ask yourself if you're actually ready to go poly yet or not. It sounds like not - it sounds like it's something you're doing to try and please her.

Hence you can just about cope with the idea of her meeting some random dude that she has no feelings for, but meeting her ex is a different ball game.

I've met quite a few couples online before where the guy is quite happy to see his wife getting banged by 6 guys at once, but gets a bit insecure if she's with one guy, and she seems to quite like him.

It just hits that nerve of 'does she like him more than me?'

To me, that is all jealousy is - the fear that your partner is meeting someone better than you are.

If you want to become truly poly (and I know that you should probably take my words with a pinch of salt, as I'm only just starting out on this road myself), then you have to start by fulling accepting that:

1) You are who are you are, and you have certain things to offer
2) Other people have different things to offer than you that your girlfriend might be interested in
3) That does not imply anything about your own value
4) There is the risk that one day your primary will find someone who she sees as a better match than you, and will want to make him her primary instead.

If you're not willing to accept these things, then you'll always struggle with the poly way of life I believe - because you'll always want to put limits on your partner. You'll only allow her to see the type of guys that don't make you feel insecure (ie the ones you feel you know you are better than). Guess what - she wants to see the ones that prod your insecurities - not to upset you, but because they are naturally going to be the most attractive guys.

Note that all of these 4) points still apply even if you're mono. There are still other guys out there, and there is still the chance she will meet someone else. Even if you get married and tie her down...that's still an illusion that you now 'own' her and she's fully attached to you.

You have to realise that if you really are truly poly, with no jealousy or insecurities, you are offering her something that 99.9% of guys cannot give her - that total freedom and lack of judgement. I doubt this is something her ex can offer. There's a decent chance that if you're fine about this, that he'll be the one who gets jealous and insecure, and turns her off...and she realises you are the one she wants.

However you don't do this as a tactic in order to make it happen. You just know that you're an awesome dude with something really special to offer. Some people will see it, and some won't. But don't try to force it...just put yourself out there as you are, and allow people to see it if they want to.

Now obviously she has to keep her side of the bargain. You are the primary, which means she has to respect you, and not treat him like the primary.

I guess the question is - what do you really want? I have a sneaking suspicion you just want this girl as a mono partner. In which case I'm afraid, she is probably not for you.
 
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. . . if you really are truly poly, with no jealousy or insecurities . . .

In what rule book is it stated that only those who do not experience jealousy or insecurity are "truly poly?"

Having those feelings is very human, and if one experiences insecurity and jealousy, that fact simply points to areas in our psyches that need attention or issues in need of some sort of resolution or letting go. This is true, no matter what sort of relationship structure or configuration one employs in their life (mono, poly, whatever).

The only thing that is truly poly is the fact of having, or being open to having, multiple loving relationships. That is it. There is no "One True Way" to be successful in polyamory. It is detrimental to have avoidance of feelings as a goal, or to uphold some sort of robotic, unfeeling, objectivity as an ideal.
 
In what rule book is it stated that only those who do not experience jealousy or insecurity are "truly poly?"

The definition doesn't matter...I don't see the value in debating it.

If you're living a lifestyle that causes you constant insecurity and general bad feelings...and it's not just a phase you're working through...then it is not for you.

You can still technically be poly, but why would you want to?
 
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