Learning to be me

AnotherConfused

New member
After many months of posting here in moments of confusion and frustration, and getting such wonderful advice and support, I'm now in a place where I would like to write about my life but I don't have pressing questions to ask. Time for a story.

Chapter One: As a single woman, I had a bad habit of falling in love when I was already involved with someone else. Or having a boyfriend and a close male friend, close enough to make the boyfriend uncomfortable. Once, two sexual partners, neither of whom was in love with me so they didn't mind. When I met my husband, at least one friend cautioned me to respect the relationship and not cheat or dump him for someone else.

Chapter Two: I married a virgin from India in 1999. Well, he wasn't a virgin once I got my hands on him, but he had no previous relationship experience; not even a kiss. He built me a dream life, complete with a luxurious house, two brilliant daughters, and just about anything I ever ask for.

Chapter Three: My long time friendship with L, a man parents' age who I have known since before I met my husband, took a sharp turn towards romantic love. We had been flirting for our whole friendship, but all of a sudden I wanted way way more. My earliest threads on this forum delve into my journey into honesty with my husband, and trying to find the right path. We settled on limiting the expression of our love to words and kisses, which sometimes have been achingly insufficient.

Chapter Four: I met C (a year ago now) and felt an immediate bond. We corresponded by email almost daily. I was confined to bed with a long term illness, he was traveling, and lives several hours away. He'd come by about once a month. We have gradually fallen in love. My husband has struggled with this a lot. Between this and my illness, all the weak points in our relationship came to light. I felt like L and C were filling gaps (affection, passion) and I knew that wasn't a good reason to be involved with them.

Chapter Five: My marriage was turned inside out and upside down while we talked this all through. We got weaker. We got stronger. He asked me to stop kissing them. Then he decided to draw the line only at oral and penetrative sex. (That much intimacy felt weird in my friendship with L, so I decided not to do it again.) Then he said anyone I am intimate with is forbidden from coming to our house or being around our kids, so I stopped with C too. Then he said just to not be intimate in our house or expect him to socialize with them. So C and I are intimate again.

Chapter Six: It all feels pretty good now. L and my husband are on good terms, with just a hint of awkwardness. C is head over heels for me right now, which sometimes makes me nervous and usually makes me extremely happy. We are trying to live in the moment, because his long term goal is a monogamous partner who can join him on his frequent travels, and of course have sex with him, so I know this won't go on indefinitely. My marriage feels good, but I know it needs continually feeding (expressions of love and affection) for my husband not to feel like I am short changing him.

Today's milestone is finally talking out loud about this to a friend. I was gradually piecing together that this friend is polyamorous, so I asked him about it today. He told me his story, and listened to mine, and I feel really good for having someone who knows me who can understand what is going on (besides those involved, of course). He said he and his wife haven't told very many people in their various social circles, so I suspect he enjoyed having someone to talk about it with too.

C is coming to town tonight, so I'll spend tomorrow with him while the kids are at school. We have noble intentions of spending less than half the time in his hotel room. Life is pretty fulfilling, and I also feeling like I am finally healing from my long illness (ironically, an inflammation of the lining of my heart). No complaints here! And lots and lots of gratitude for the good people here who helped me figure out who I am and gave me the courage to live honestly.
 
I had a nice date with C today, and he brought up the possibility of buying a house or condo in my city. He has a rural home 5 hours away, and also has a house in a town two hours away where he lived for many years, and I am on the path between. He travels around a whole lot. (He's retired and wealthy).

I told him I was concerned about him making a big decision like that while still feeling so head over heels in our relationship. He gave a pretty convincing argument that this is something he's been drawn to for a long time. I live in a sizable city with a lot of opportunities for several of his hobbies, and he has gotten to know many people here in our dance community. He has money to invest, and real estate here is a pretty good investment right now. He's sure he wouldn't be doing this for me. Maybe I have just hastened him on the path.

Admittedly I'm pretty excited by the idea. Most of our relationship has consisted of very condensed moments together with one eye constantly on the clock, either because I need to get back to my family or he needs to get back on the road to wherever his destination is. If he could come and spend several days at a time in my city, we could enjoy more leisurely times together and also cross paths more often at dances. On the other hand, I'd have to work harder at making sure our relationship didn't take away from my time with my kids and husband. I feel a little guilty for spending the day with him today, while my husband worked. It's a balancing act!
 
What a great weekend! Last New Year's Eve dance was a disaster, a catalyst for a whole bunch of drama between my husband and me, centering around my treatment of him vs. my treatment of C and other men. This weekend all three of us attended a local "camp" involving dancing all day and evening Friday through Sunday, and I was a little concerned about the potential for more drama.

First, I got very clear with my husband about expectations: how much we would dance together, which dances we were promising each other, etc. I then erred on the side of caution and sought him out for some dances we hadn't promised.

Then, of course C knew that we needed to keep things discreet between us (we have lots of mutual friends in the dance community, and we know if anything was suspected between us anyone would assume it was an affair). He was so discreet I had to point out that since we hug a whole lot of our dance friends, it's probably ok to hug each other.

The kind of dancing we do is very interactive -not just with your partner but with the other partners in the room. (My husband says it's a kind of dance for poly people; he prefers the waltz!) Consequently there were a couple of moments of the weekend I especially savor -one in which I had my husband holding one hand and C holding my other, and another in which I was in the arms of one of them while the other was with another woman, and then they broke away to take hands and whirl around each other, trading partners. This is all choreographed so they weren't seeking each other out at all, but I still loved seeing that interaction as they traded off being with me. In real life my husband doesn't like to encounter C any more than necessary.

I was giddy all weekend. My husband benefited from that each night, and this morning I got a little time alone with C to express all the affection we were holding back all weekend. Oh my I am in love!

In the back of my mind is this nagging thought that I am partly just in love with this lifestyle, of having both a husband and a boyfriend. I do of course love each of them for their minds, their hearts, their personalities, and mmm their bodies, but I think part of what makes me feel so wonderful is just this getting to have two loves. I think I've always wanted it, but only realized I wanted it a couple of years ago, and have only really had it in a (relatively) comfortable, settled way for the past couple of months.

I am so, so happy. I just can't even believe how happy I am.
 
Hey, as long as you genuinely love the people you're with, which you clearly do, loving your lifestyle too is a beautiful thing!! I'm so happy at how far things have come for you all. :)
 
L came into town tonight, and he, my husband and I all went dancing together. I walked up the street linking arms between the two of them, feeling smug as a bug. It makes me happy to see the way the two of them respect and admire each other.

L and I have always enjoyed talking about sex, so when he first arrived today and no one else was home, our conversation heated up pretty fast. We're very careful to limit our actions (just hugs and kisses) but we can get carried away with our words. He knows I have long had a fantasy of being in bed with two men, and I talked about how even just having two clothed men giving me a massage would be fantastic, if no one felt comfortable getting naked and sexy together. And I said I'd have no problem letting that massage go as far as they wanted it to. Well, we've just said our good nights after a nice clean chat around the dining room table. I guess my fantasies will remain fantasies. Oh well.
 
The conversation L and I had yesterday afternoon keeps distracting me. Specifically, he talked about the way some women enjoy aggressive sex. I've told my husband before about a couple of my favorite moments in my sex life before meeting him. There's something I love about bringing a man to the point where his desire overpowers any thought of being "nice", and I completely give myself up to it, the hard masculine overtaking the soft feminine. The closest we get is him thinking I like it rough, and trying to please me that way, but it's just not the same. He says a man being forceful is a kind of rape-like fantasy I have, and it's absolutely not that. It's pretty much the opposite, with rape being a man taking what a woman doesn't want to give, but aggressive sex being a woman giving herself totally, and willingly. I think maybe just like some humor isn't funny to some people, there are some sexual dynamics that aren't possible for some people. So when L talked about aggressive sex, I was on fire for him. He laughed when he saw the look in my eyes. But we don't touch each other sexually, because by my husband's rules if we have that kind of relationship, he won't be able to be my husband's friend any more, and come stay with us, and I love his role in our whole family.

My husband and I also talked a little bit last night about my fantasy for being with two men, and I asked if he'd ever consider indulging me in a tamer version of that, with just a fully clothed massage, but he won't. He asked me to try not to mold him into something he's not. I'm not sure really how to handle this disparity. I am a very sexual person with a lot of curiosity about some of the more adventurous aspects of sex, and he is almost puritanical. It totally killed my libido last night, because I think he really doesn't like my sexual personality, so to speak. I don't think I will honestly be able to spend the rest of my life having only proper decent friendly marital lovemaking.

It has helped a lot that he has been allowing me time with C. C practically worships my body (and the rest of me) so that feels wonderful, and he does all manner of delicious things to me that don't cross the boundaries my husband set. This is probably my first life experience with a "breast man" (never knew there were breast men into small breasts before!) and I'm loving it. I am thrilled to be able to experience a new dynamic, and it has been indescribably delightful going back and forth between them.

I guess what I'm feeling today is that I have this sexual side of myself that is getting impatient. My husband hopes to satisfy me by just thrusting harder, but it's not about that. I want two men, I'm curious about women, I'm intrigued by domination, and I want to explore whatever else happens to light me up. My husband thought I had gotten this out of my system before we married, because I'd been with quite a few men, so I don't feel like I am being fair to him. But I just can't imagine living out the rest of my life without experiencing some of these things.

So here's L, currently single and craving sex. He loves me, I love him, with years and years of respect and trust between us. He's 26 years older than me and in no way a threat to my marriage, having already raised two sets of kids from two marriages of his own. He can do some of these things I hunger for. (Just his dirty talk alone... no one can match that.) But we can't. This is maddening.

I recognize that my husband has already compromised a lot, around my relationship with C. (And even L, knowing that we feel the way we do about each other and still spend time together.) It feels pretty selfish of me to want more than this, when my life is so amazing and happy. I'm just not sure what to do with these desires, when satisfaction just hangs right there in reach in front of me.
 
C shaved off his mustache on my account. He's had it pretty much his whole adulthood. I don't enjoy mustaches. We made a joking deal last year that I could have his naked lip if he ever got to play with my naked body, which didn't seem at all likely at the time. He decided to go through with it, just now when he is leaving on vacation on the other side of the planet. No one he knows will see the new look until the end of the month.

In some odd and pleasant way this feels like he is committing to me. Obviously, he can grow it back and I also told him I thought it would make him more attractive to other women as well, but the fact that he was willing to make the change at my suggestion... I feel kind of important. (I feel guilty a little too but I don't think I pressured him at all.)

My husband said, "Good. Maybe someone else will fall for him now and he'll leave my wife alone." I said, "Yes, that would make me happy," and he said he was only kidding. We don't really discuss this whole poly situation much now. I get the impression he just tries not to think about it.
 
I've been looking forward to this weekend for a while now. I'm headed to a 4 day event where C and I first started falling for each other last year. I talked to my husband about it several weeks ago and asked how much, if any, of the time he wanted to be there, and what to do with the kids, etc. He said he would just come for the last night, and keep our youngest home with him, and I should go with our oldest, who can spend time and overnights with a favorite friend in that city. I asked about sharing a hotel room with C, and he hesitated, so I said it wasn't necessary and I booked separate rooms. C is driving me there with my oldest.

I just talked to my mother, who expressed concern that my husband wasn't going to be with me all weekend. (Even though her last marriage ended miserably, she still seems to think I'd be better off doing what she did which is to forgo all social and recreational activities that don't include my husband.) I told her my husband wanted to hang out at home most of the weekend, and was only interested in coming for a short time. Later I repeated the conversation to him, and he got all upset. He said I should be showing more gratitude for his willingness to stay home and take care of the house and pets while I am off having fun.

?!!

I really resent it when we have these conversations about what I want and what he wants, and I think we are coming to agreeable decisions, only later to be told that he is always giving up what he wants so I can have what I want.

Now I'm scrambling to arrange pet care so he can come for more of the weekend, after spending all this time envisioning some quality time with C. He'll have to back right out of the picture now, because my husband isn't willing to socialize with him, so it's not just that we won't get time alone, but we won't get time together at all once my husband shows up. It's going to be very hard creating a mindset where I am actually glad my husband is with me. This change of plans is only stemming from me not wanting to feel guilty for "making" him stay home and walk the dog.

Springing poly on my husband a decade into our marriage was tough. I am trying to make it as easy as possible. I don't feel like I have the "right" to ask for a certain amount of time with C, and I've tried to make sure my times with him don't take away from the family. I mostly see him when he passes through town while the kids are at school, or at dance events where I would have gone anyway. I try to always put my husband first, when it comes to who I am spending my time with. But in this case, I feel like I am getting short changed with this late change in plans. I was really looking forward to this time with C. I thought I had arranged it all to everyone's satisfaction, and now it is getting taken away.

How can I keep from resenting my husband over this?
 
Why are you changing your plans just because he got pissy? Did he ask you to change everything? It sounds like he just wants to be acknowledged more for his "sacrifice." Sure, it doesn't seem fair that he stated that this was what he wanted, and basically volunteered to stay at home, only to then make it seem like he's a victim. But maybe he is having second thoughts and can't express that, out of pride. Also, I recall that he is very concerned about how others view him, so perhaps his reaction was borne of embarrassment that you and your mother discussed this. I would stop scrambling right now, if I were you. I think it is true that making these changes and having him there for more days will only fan the flames of resentment in you and it will be probably be a sucky time for all of you. Can you find a way to set aside your resentment/anger and talk to him again? Or just let him be, and talk about it afterward. He needs to come to terms with the choices he makes, I think, and you doing cartwheels to accommodate him out of guilt won't help.
 
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We talked some more. Now he's not going to come because he says it's clear he's not wanted. (I told him it's true, but that he would have been wanted if we'd planned to spend the weekend together to begin with.)

Now we're in a huge fight.

There's this recurring theme, where I tell him he has just as much freedom to go and do the things he wants to do and I am always in complete support of that, and he tells me he would rather stay home and spend time with our children being a good parent... and then wonders how I come away thinking he's telling me I'm not as good a parent as he is. He's says no, I am 95% a good mother. That's supposed to reassure me? I really have no idea what he wants from me at this point. He says I'm making him out to be a villain so I feel can better about myself. Villain that I am.

I can't even think straight I'm so upset right now.
 
Please go see a marriage councilor! I'm not sure there's anything left for YOU to say. He is twisting things around to make himself look like a victim. You have said before that he is very concerned about outward "appearances", it sounds like what your mom said triggered something that sent him into self pity mode. I've had this happen, where I'm perfectly fine with a situation until a family member said "doesn't ______ bother you?". So now I'm thinking it should bother me and I start feeling sorry for myself. Not a good plan, and now that I recognize it, I take steps to avoid that little pity party trigger.

I gave up long time ago repeating some of the stupid bs my mom spouts, it just rarely turns out well.
 
My mom doesn't even know the situation with C. She knows he is driving me and staying in the same hotel, and that he's a friend. She knows that my daughter and I plan to spend a lot of time with my daughter's friend and her mother, another friend of mine, along with loads of other people I know who attend this event. It really doesn't look inappropriate from the outside, except that my mom thinks anything I do without my husband is somehow inappropriate.

It seems more to be about his thinking he is "making it possible" for me to have this trip and I haven't shown him enough gratitude for that. I feel like the trip would have been just as possible if he'd decided to take it too. I would have gotten a house sitter. But he didn't say he wanted to go, back when we first made the plans. All of a sudden I'm supposed to recognize the sacrifice he is making here.

We saw a marriage counselor in January, but she wasn't on our insurance. The 5 Love Languages book got us through that rough patch to a really good place. Somehow that's not working right now. We could try for another counselor I guess. I think the next one on our list is likely to be at the same event this weekend, actually.

I don't see how I can measure up. I feel like I'm aiming for standards that are being kept secret.
 
I don't see how I can measure up. I feel like I'm aiming for standards that are being kept secret.

I agree! Definitely an issue you guys need to address. Sorry your having to deal with this hope you can get it straightened out.

Marriage councilor covered by insurance? Didn't know such a thing existed, then again I have crappy insurance coverage:p. I was able to deduct them on my taxes as medical expenses.
 
Things are improved here, again. The weekend was a little rough. I was happily enjoying my time with C, dancing away the second evening and looking forward to his plans for me back at the hotel, involving the clawfoot tub, a foot massage, and a bottle of very good wine, and suddenly my husband and daughter appeared, and day earlier than I expected. Ouch. Poor C headed back to the hotel early and alone, once he caught sight of me sitting with my daughter in my lap. I made a quick visit to his room and there were some tears, and later I tried to explain to my husband. It wasn't that I wasn't happy to spend time with him, just that I was cancelling my other plans on no notice. We agreed I would spend the next morning with C and catch up with my husband mid-day, and that seemed to be the best compromise.

One thing I found amusing in all this was that I checked into the hotel Friday night with C and my older daughter, who then went off to spend most of her time with a local friend. I checked out of the hotel Monday with my husband and my other daughter. Must have been perplexing for the hotel staff!

I've had lots more conversations with my husband and I think I am starting to understand his needs and where I've fallen short. We have looked ahead for fall and planned one family dance weekend in November, and one dance weekend for C and me in October. My husband's stipulation is that I clean the attic to "earn" this time with C, which starts to rub me wrong because it makes me feel like a prisoner earning parole, but I know what it really comes down to is my husband wanting me to show him my love through acts of service, as a reassurance that I am still putting him first. I can do that.

Meanwhile L got all upset when I told him I was going to a dance weekend with C this fall. He feels like he has been loving me so carefully these past 20 years, always respectful of his (ex-)spouse and then mine, and all of a sudden I have a boyfriend who just appeared on the scene last year. I can understand him feeling that way, but at the same time, I don't think he'd want to be a boyfriend to me. He wouldn't be getting what he needs in a girlfriend, and he would be giving up his place as friend to my whole family in exchange for what? Not even sex. He agrees, but he's still jealous. Silly really, because we have our week each year, where we first met and always meet, coming up next month. We always dance until the wee hours and then talk until the sun comes up, night after night. It's one of my favorite weeks of the year.

I'm coming around to agreeing to that sentiment I see so often expressed here, that scheduling is the most difficult part of polyamory. Just having enough time and attention to go around so no one feels shortchanged. Someone was flirting with me at a dance last night and I thought, "You're mighty cute all right, but I just don't have any time left for you!"
 
C just got back from a few days hiking and camping with a female friend. While he was gone I had a dream that there was a gap in email communication (he writes to me most days) and I was sure he was sleeping with this woman, and I really struggled with it. When I woke up I thought about my feelings, and realized that while I sincerely do want him to find a true "partner," who can be what I just can't be for him, I am afraid of the changes that will cause in my relationship with him. Afraid that he will have less time for me, less attention for me, and if she requires him to be monogamous, that our relationship will be less compelling for him without the physical intimacy we've been able to enjoy. (He recently made some comment about hoping for miracles, like a partner who would accept his relationship with me, but until then had never indicated any desire to be poly himself.)

I feel like a stop-gap for him. He finds our relationship better than being alone, but not fulfilling enough to stop him from looking for someone who will end up basically replacing me. He has been very reassuring with his words, claiming that I am helping him grow and learn and that he will always love me no matter what direction our relationship takes, but when it comes down to it, he is shopping for my replacement. As he should be; he deserves a girlfriend who can join him in his travels, spend time at his house, have sex with him. I think that I am unselfishly wanting that for him, but the panic I felt in my dream made me realize I am not so noble. I want to keep him. I would be happier if he just found a half dozen friends for travel and sex, and saved his love for me. Also now that he tossed that comment out there about having a girlfriend and me... that's a bit of heaven I'd like to hope for.

I don't think it's fair to feel this selfish. I already have a wonderful husband who has eyes only for me. Monogamy starts to feel like a waste to me though. Why shouldn't two women get to enjoy C, one he can travel with, and me for what I do for him? Why should I keep my handsome husband all to myself? I would share these men, if they could both love me freely and I could freely love both of them. Unrealistic dreams, I know.
 
Today I feel like I am being asked to tear myself in two. Summer vacation starts today, which means I'll have my kids with me pretty constantly. C is passing through town Friday and we thought it would be fun to check out a houseboat, since he's still thinking he might like to buy one near here to be able to spend more time in the city. My kids and I have never been on a houseboat, so it would be fun for them to come along.

I mentioned this to my husband, and he opposed it, saying C doesn't have the right. After some conversation he decided it would be ok this time, as long as they don't go again if he actually buys one. He doesn't want them in any home of his. He doesn't want them doing fun activities with C and me at all, it seems. I don't know what to do about this. I had given up intimacy with C in January when my husband said he didn't want the kids to be around him at all if we were intimate. I couldn't stand the thought of someone I love not being allowed to know my kids, who are central to my life. He revised that to deciding they could be around him, but I shouldn't ask the two men to socialize together. We have had that arrangement for 3 or 4 months now and I thought it was working fine.

Now I feel again like I have to have the kids treat C like some different category of friend, someone they aren't allowed to get close to. This doesn't sit well with me at all. At 5 and 9, my kids are a huge part of my life, and I want C to know them. He's also someone I want them to know. He's intelligent, one of the kindest people I know, and he has some hobbies that I think the kids would find interesting -bird-watching, photography, hiking, painting. My husband says no, he doesn't want C taking them out in a boat or canoe, for example, because that's something he wants to do with them. He has never done this with them. I'm worried that I'll spend the whole summer keeping the kids at home to protect them from having fun with people other than their dad, who has to work full time. I might only get to see C two or three times this summer, but when he's here I'd love to think we could do something really fun with the kids. Instead, my husband would rather work from home and have the kids laze around the house while he "lets" me go spend the time with C without them. I'll go off on a bird-watching hike and come home with a camera full of photos and a bucket of huckleberries for the kids, and they can tell me what TV shows they watched while they were being carefully shielded from the harm of spending time with C. And I can thank my husband for babysitting.

I'm sad and angry. I don't see how the kids are harmed by having fun with C. It's not as if they were taking that time away from their dad. I can't keep living my life in these separate pieces, though. Fine if my husband won't befriend C, but can't the kids choose for themselves if they enjoy his company or not? How important is it to their well being that they feel a wall between themselves and C that isn't there for anyone else? How much suspicion and distrust and taboo do we need to build around him for the children's sake?
 
Please get some marriage counceling. Your husband is showing some serious control issues and he is definitely NOT okay with your outside relationships.
 
I know you realize this, but...

"My husband says no, he doesn't want C taking them out in a boat or canoe, for example, because that's something he wants to do with them."

C doing those things with your kids in no way precludes your husband doing them with your kids too. It's not either or, and the experiences will mean more to them when they're with their dad so it's not like the specialness would erode. Still, I guess he feels like it would be less special if he wasn't first/only in their memories. And yet I imagine he wouldn't mind you taking them out with another relative or platonic friends or a teacher. So it's not really about that.
 
We have rewound the clock to January. My husband doesn't want the kids spending time with C so long as we are intimate. Only "incidental contact," never quality time. This feel so horribly unhealthy to me, I am calling of the intimacy. Again. In order to allow this man I love to be able to interact with my family and be in my life in a normal, healthy way, we are going to refrain from expressing our love physically. We'll just amp up in words, looks, and dances, I guess.

On the plus side, C has never felt right about not knowing my husband, and now he'll have that chance. He can come to our parties and things when he is in town, and there shouldn't be any reason now why he couldn't take the kids and me bird watching on a summer weekday and things like that. He can do all the things our other friends do, and that will likely bring us closer together in many ways.

On the minus side, I'm back to feeling like my marriage is a cage. This can't be good.

Marriage counseling is definitely going on our summer to-do list.
 
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