Rough patches with re-opening relationship

nichtdaisy

New member
Hi, Folks. I am newish here.

I've been in a pretty good relationship for a while with a male partner. It started out as FWB for a couple of years, which means we had no monogamous expectations, and we drifted in and out of each others' lives as lovers (but always remained friends). Two years ago, we started another lover-chapter, but this one has stuck. We are definitely in a serious relationship, and in many ways, it has been great.

All of this time, we have said that we are in an open relationship, but we never had reason to practice it. We were fulfilled by each other, and there wasn't much opportunity outside the relationship. That changed over the summer. I figured out that he wanted to date someone, and I was as amused as I was surprised. I asked him to confirm. He did. We talked about it... talked about reopening up the relationship in practice, set all sorts of rules, and I gave him my blessing. It was tacitly agreed that we wouldn't share details with each other unless a new partnership would be emotional as well as sexual. I never heard anything more. I checked in with him a month later, and he said that he dropped that pursuit. He realized, that for him, practicing non-monogamy with me was challenging, and he didn't want to rock the boat.

A few months later, I reunited with a former lover; we started talking and emailing all the time, and it wasn't long before we decided that we wanted to resume being lovers. He and I had a not-so-great period a few years ago where we snuck around to be lovers, and I want a new chapter to be more open and honest. I know that this new relationship will only be sexual, on top of the casual friendship we maintain. It will not chip into the emotional and day-to-day bond I have with my primary guy. It took me a while to screw up the courage to talk to my primary guy, but I did. I said, its now my turn to want to do this. I want to tell you my intention so I don't have to lie about it. It will only be about sex. Is this ok? What assurances do you need from me to feel loved and supported while I explore this?

I was surprised that my primary guy was taken aback my my request. He felt very threatened, I guess. He tried to give me his blessing, but I could tell that it didn't sit right with him. He said that he didn't want to know who it was, but still pressed and guessed until he figured it out. Its not someone whom he ever crosses paths with. He was avoidant and angry for a few days. He then came back to me, apologized for being so jealous, but said that he really isn't ready for me to do this. He proposed that I either drop it, or go out of my way to completely hide it from him. He would rather be in denial, he said.

he has lots of stress in his life right now. Unemployed, broke... that has caused some stress between us which has taken a toll on our romantic life, which may explain why my old flame seems tempting right now. But, I am also sensitive to the stress which I have put him under.

I didn't give him a clear verbal answer to this request, but was able for a couple of weeks to set my desires aside and help him through an interview and other job search struggles. I feel I am doing all I can to be there for him.

But, I have kept up my flirtation and my friendship with my old flame. It really sucks to have to lie to my primary guy when I have hung out with my old flame and his kids, as friends. it feels really gross. I want to be honest with my primary guy.

Have any of you been in this situation when trying to open or re-open a relationship? Any words of advice for how I can help my primary guy feel supported and loved? How to be honest with out flaunting my other connection? How to share that I think that honesty is the most loving thing I can do? Lying sucks!

I have yet to progress to sex with my old flame, but I really want to go there. It seems inevitable, and I want to give honesty another stab with my primary guy before I make the mistake of trying to lie about it.
 
He's stated his wishes, either respect them or deem them incompatible with your needs and move on.
 
You could try a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy until your man gets himself together. This is what my mono husband asks of me: He wants to know nothing of my sex life, he wants nothing to do with my lovers, and I am to tell him what's up only if a relationship becomes emotional and long-term. Is it ideal? No. But it's what he can deal with while he works through his insecurities while still allowing me to take charge of my sexuality.

Like you, I don't ever want to lie, so I've made it clear that if my husband asks me a question, I will answer it honestly and he'll have to contend with whatever he hears. In short, Don't Ask, Don't Tell will only work if your man does not ask, and you do not tell! My husband works long hours and late, so most of the time he doesn't even know I was out. He does not look at my phone or my computer. So far, he's kept to his word, and hasn't freaked out the few times he called or texted me and I indicated I was out with someone else.

Every few months I check in with him about his comfort level and mine. The good news is, he's definitely more confident about all this than when we first started a year and a half ago, and he says he feels now he'll be mentally prepared if/when someone comes along that I'm emotionally attached to.
 
He's stated his wishes, either respect them or deem them incompatible with your needs and move on.
London.

Argh, I just wrote a reply to this, and it got munched by internet issues.

You may be right, but if I have to give this up, I will be really disappointed.

My primary guy maintains an OKCupid profile where he states he is in an open relationship and that he is open to making new friends and to casual dating. When he was processing his jealousy and discomfort with my proposition, and was coming to terms that he would have rather not known, he confessed that he has stepped out "a few times", but never told me because he took pains to make those affairs self-contained; jsut sex, once, and he drops contact with them. Somehow, this is ok in his book.

When we hashed out rules last fall when he wanted to see someone else. We said discretion is ok - neither of us have to know if it is the kind of affair he described above, but we would have to talk about it if there was a friendship or ongoing romance. He is now wanting to rework the rules so that only strings-free sex on the DL is allowed. I understand if he can only come up with this rule in practice, but I am sorely disappointed.

He is more the kind of person who would seek casual strings-free sex than I am. I am more whole-package oriented. So, the kind of open relationship he is more comfortable with, is, by design, one that will maximize his opportunity for other connections, while minimizing mine. Disappointing.
 
And that might mean that you have different, incompatible relationship styles. Some people can live with their partners having a different relationship style - mono/poly, for instance. Others can't.
 
I would not enter a DaDt situation. But if that works for you, that's fine. Just realize it might make it more difficult to find new partners (then again, you don't seem to be really LOOKING, so.......)
 
Lovebunny

I ultimately hope that I can come to this understanding with my main guy. It is the kind that we hammered out last fall when he wanted to see someone. We do not live together, and only spend half of our nights together. Discretion is possible.

I am seeing, in practice, though, that doing the DL deal with the devil can make things worse. He doesn't want to know, but I feel like he is now keeping tabs on me. He seems apprehensive, anxious, and quickly offers that I would probably rather be doing something else than being with him. His self-confidence is hurt these days by other issues, like being long-term unemployed. He's depressed about that, and that saps his motivation to look for jobs, so his situation isn't going to turn around anytime soon. Yes, there are bigger problems in this relationship!

As london says, it may just be that my primary guy and I are incompatible over this issue. I understand that as lovely as an open relationship sounds, not everyone can handle it. When my primary guy and I were starting to know each other, we were pretty battle-scarred from previous relationships and were slow to commit to each other. It took us two years of expectations-free FWB before we even thought about getting serious with each other, and now its two years after that. Perhaps, for him, the idea of an open relationship was like a safety line so that he never had to feel bound to me, but he never really processed what it would be like for me to exercise that right, myself.

I am frustrated because I am ready to graduate to being in a true open relationship; I came to terms with that when I was on the short end of the stick last fall.
 
Thanks PolyinPractice

I would rather this not be DADT, although it would only clear up for me in practice how much detailed information would need to be shared. I would absolutely love to practice poly with open metamours as friends, etc. Its something I have worked hard on, as I have burned myself badly with deceit and infidelity in my faux-monogamous past.

It just felt so yucky to make myself lie to my primary guy last weekend about seeing my old flame and his kids. Maybe I didn't even have to do that, but its what I did, and even that was too much of a taste of my past, and is prompting me to want to bring this up with him again.
 
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Hi Nichtdaisy,

Given that you and your primary guy have already been exploring open relationships, do you think that polyamory on your terms is something that he could get used to, if taken slowly and if he has the time and opportunity to work through his fears? And could you be patient enough to wait while he does that work? It sounds like you have already done quite a bit of groundwork, and it seems a shame to call everything off without first having tried to see if you can make it work.

In my opinion and experience, honesty is definitely best, and the level of openness can be tailored to everyone's comfort needs.

If you haven't already done so, maybe it's time to go back to the basics and talk about what you each want out of an open relationship, what you hope it will bring to your primary relationship, and what your respective fears and triggers are. Perhaps that will help you decide whether you can walk this path together or not.

Amanita
 
Amanita,

Thank you for this reply! I, indeed, would like to hope that my primary guy is just experiencing jitters with truly walking this path. But, perhaps this is just wishful thinking?

The conversation which you propose seems like a great starting point.

I have a coffee-convo date with him today, to address the general apprehension which has grown between us in the last few weeks. The open relationship question is just part of that. He also is deeply discouraged from being long-term unemployed (he hasn't earned a wage since June, which was at a short-term job, and he's been on the job market for his desired career path for now well over a year).

I hope that I can broach the open relationship topic again. It would be timely. He had asked me to shelve in a few weeks ago, pending on the outcome of the one job interview he had at the time, which would have necessitated an out of town move on his part had he gotten the job. He did not get the job, and so the question comes back into play for me.

Has anyone here felt really stuck articulating what they want from their primary partner in terms of space and perimssion when their primary partner is struggling deeply with something else? Its so tempting to drop my needs and not do anything to further shake my primary's confidence in himself when he is feeling this down, but if I look back on the last six months, he is always down, always discouraged, and I already feel like I am treating him with kid gloves, which is making me a little resentful. But, I don't want to kick a man when he is down!

I'm sorry to vent like this, but I am really frustrated, and don't have much in the way of an understanding community who would empathize with my need to have multiple partners.
 
... Its so tempting to drop my needs and not do anything to further shake my primary's confidence in himself when he is feeling this down, but if I look back on the last six months, he is always down, always discouraged, and I already feel like I am treating him with kid gloves, which is making me a little resentful. But, I don't want to kick a man when he is down!...

I understand this urge...and would encourage you to (if you decide to go this route) put a time limit on this.

When MrS was devastated my "Jack-assery" mistake (you can read all about it in my blog if you like) combined with his depression and going off his meds...I gave myself (not him) a limit. If, in one year, he was still not OK and wanted to divorce me then I would let him go without a fight to find his own happiness - until then I was willing to shut down anything else and give our marriage everything I could. (We had been together almost two decades at that point - your time frame might be different)

Ultimately, if nothing changes and he is perennially miserable...?!
 
What is it about lying that makes you feel gross?

If you're feeling guilty because you're keeping secrets, how does it benefit your partner to relieve your burden of guilt on him, making him carry the burden of your dalliances?

Another perspective... if you're feeling so gross about sneaking around, why is your first solution to tell your partner? What about ending the flirtations as a way to stop sneaking around?

I'm fortunate not to be the type of person who's burdened by guilt, I work more on a "will this harm or hurt another person?" mentality. If something is harmful to someone I love, I probably won't do it. If something is harmless, then I see it as privacy not secrecy. Working, of course, within the boundaries of mutual agreements of disclosure with anyone relevant.

In your case, it's the telling not the doing that will harm your partner, according to his own statement of preference. Perhaps your psyche is affected by the monogamous culture in which you were raised, where "having a romance with someone when your partner doesn't know about it" is cheating. But it's only cheating if your partner isn't given the opportunity to know. If they've been given disclosure and have requested non-disclosure, then it's not cheating.
 
When he was processing his jealousy and discomfort with my proposition, and was coming to terms that he would have rather not known, he confessed that he has stepped out "a few times", but never told me because he took pains to make those affairs self-contained; jsut sex, once, and he drops contact with them. Somehow, this is ok in his book.

This struck me as awfully cold. I personally would never want to be with a guy who treats other women like this. I would be fairly certain that some or all of those sex partners didn't know that all contact would be cut off after one sexual encounter. Shuddering here. Are you sure he is the guy for you?
 
I would be fairly certain that some or all of those sex partners didn't know that all contact would be cut off after one sexual encounter.
How can you be "fairly certain" when you weren't there? There are plenty of women who just want to get laid, you know, and are perfectly okay with one-night stands. We're not always victims, nor hoping for a relationship to come out of a sexual hook-up.
 
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The thing that troubled me more about that part was that he was keeping secrets about what he was doing, which conflicts with what Nichtdaisy seems to want to achieve, which is honesty. Also, the double-standard bothers me - that it's okay for him to do what he wants, but not for her (if I've understood this correctly). Or rather, perhaps, that he has trouble with her exploring polyamorous relationships, while he expects her to be okay with his explorations.

Aside from the honesty aspect, I think equality is an important thing - both partners should have the freedom to explore to the same extent as each other. Whether or not they take it up is their choice of course, and there may be differences in *how* they take it up, which warrants further discussion.

(Sorry to talk about you, rather than to you, Nichtdaisy!)

To go back to your question the other day:
Has anyone here felt really stuck articulating what they want from their primary partner in terms of space and perimssion when their primary partner is struggling deeply with something else? Its so tempting to drop my needs and not do anything to further shake my primary's confidence in himself when he is feeling this down, but if I look back on the last six months, he is always down, always discouraged, and I already feel like I am treating him with kid gloves, which is making me a little resentful. But, I don't want to kick a man when he is down!

Life is, sadly, most inconvenient and often packages ALL the dramas up at the same time. For example, along with navigating our new polyamory journey, Astraeus and I are currently dealing with the fall-out from tension with his parents (going back years, but recently ramped up because of our choices w.r.t. exploring polyamory), and also extreme financial difficulties. It's exhausting, but we are trying our best to keep on top of all the issues because none of them can be feasibly put aside at the moment.

While I can understand your desire not to put more pressure on your guy because of the other things going on in his life, you should also take a look at whether you really can put aside your own desires for the time being - you may find that doing so eventually introduces more tension between you due to your frustration. Again, good communication about your respective wishes and needs should help here.

Coincidentally, while looking for something else on the forum I found this article linked: How to Make It Work - Tools for Healthy Polyamorous Relationships. These guidelines seem to be a very sensible approach, IMO. Maybe they are a good springboard for further discussion.

Hope your coffee date went well yesterday (? not sure, re: timezones). All the best with working things out!

Amanita
:)
 
How can you be "fairly certain" when you weren't there? There are plenty of women who just want to get laid, you know, and are perfectly okay with one-night stands. We're not always victims, nor hoping for a relationship to come out of a sexual hook-up.
Thanks. I hate when people project their sex negative views and .stereotypes onto all women.
 
It isn't dishonest to respect your partner's boundaries in regards to sharing. It's inconsiderate to decide what you want to share and force someone to listen.
 
I personally would never want to be with a guy who treats other women like this.

Then you're probably not the type of person to hook-up with someone with no prior relationship established.

I would be fairly certain that some or all of those sex partners didn't know that all contact would be cut off after one sexual encounter.

Then it's their responsibility to ask before spreading their legs. Anyone who has sex with someone outside of an established relationship is pretty much setting themselves up for a one night stand.

Seriously, who goes home with someone from the bar and expects it to be the first step in a long term relationship? If it grows that way then bonus, but it's hardly status quo.

Gralson is a wonderfully loving, supportive, committed romantic partner. He's not polyamorous ("One relationship is more than enough work, thank you very much.") but he enjoys casual sex. That doesn't make him a womanizer. It makes him someone who knows what he wants. What's wrong with that?
 
It isn't dishonest to respect your partner's boundaries in regards to sharing. It's inconsiderate to decide what you want to share and force someone to listen.

I agree, as long as both partners have a good idea where the boundary lies between discretion and dishonesty, not only for themselves but for each other (to avoid inadvertent stepping on of toes).
 
This whole story is raising a bunch of red flags for me. How are your relationship issues going to end up impacting other outside partners. The other people who you are going to be getting involved with are also full, human people with needs and feelings as well. One night stands with a DADT are probably fine. If you are looking at anything ongoing though feelings have a way of developing and if you don't have all your shit together in established relationships the shit can hit the fan in an epic way. Figure out how to communicate openly and honestly with each other before adding more people. (Your more people will appreciate it).
 
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