what does this mean to you?

redpepper

Active member
If poly is "responsible or ethical non-mongamy," as quite often it is described as, what does that mean? Responsible to who? What is "ethical?"
 
My working definition of responsibility: the ability and desire to take ownership of your actions and their consequences, including the ability and desire to refrain, temporarily or indefinitely, from doing something that will bring about negative consequences to others, including yourself

Responsibility in non-monogamy means taking the necessary precautions to prevent unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease, and willingness to deal with the aftermath of any such occurring. It also means openly discussing these things with all partners and refraining from sexual activities until such agreements are made that everyone can be comfortable with, and refraining from using alcohol and drugs that can impede judgment, especially with new partners.

The physical stuff is easy compared with the emotional stuff. To me, responsibility in non-monogamy is the opposite of "I will do what I want to do, and you need to deal with it or get going", or "I can't take responsibility for your feelings". It involves taking ownership of one's needs, not disguising them as lacks of another, as in "If only you would..." or "Since you are not willing to give this to me, I need to go outside of our relationship to seek it". It also involves the courage to end or alter relationships that bring more pain than joy, even if it means being alone for a while.

The ethical aspect of non-monogamy for me involves honesty and bravery in feeling and communication; loyalty to existing partners and commitments; respecting others as adults with feelings, thoughts and powers of their own; keeping onto one's word and agreements; the desire to bring joy to others, not only to oneself; and the ability and desire to hold onto these values even when they are inconvenient or hard to follow through.
 
If poly is "responsible or ethical non-mongamy," as quite often it is described as, what does that mean? Responsible to who? What is "ethical?"

Responsible to who?

Responsible toward all parties involved, directly and indirectly--including one's self.

What is "ethical?"

To live ethically is to endeavor to live and behave in such a way as to (a) harm less* (cause less harm) and (b) create beauty, goodness and wellness.

===

*Anyone can harm less. But no one can be harmless -- not 100%. Most human activities (especially in an industrial capitalist civilization) is harm full. We do what we can. Our burden is great.
 
Responsibility in non-monogamy means taking the necessary precautions to prevent unwanted pregnancies and the spread of disease, and willingness to deal with the aftermath of any such occurring. It also means openly discussing these things with all partners and refraining from sexual activities until such agreements are made that everyone can be comfortable with, and refraining from using alcohol and drugs that can impede judgment, especially with new partners.

This attitude is how I've always tried to live my life with respect to sexual partners. Whether it is monogamous or not should not matter. If you are not willing to discuss, and take responsibility for these issues then you are not really ready for sex at all, IMHO.
 
Thanks! :) much appreciated. I find it confusing when some people don't live the way that poly is described in terms of being responsible and ethical non-monogamy. What can one do, if anything, to help them understand how what they do is harmful, neglectful; essentially irresponsible and unethical? Is it a communities responsibility to rally around and pass on information about its members that are not so on the band wagon or clueless or neglectful with their responsibility and ethics?

Thanks in advance as I am rather stuck on this in general in life and have run across some painful experiences where my thinking it is my responsibility to flush out information so everyone can learn and grow has not been welcomed. It was seen as gossip as opposed to educating from peoples experiences that didn't work. I don't want to get stuck in that again without meaning to.
 
Is it a communities responsibility to rally around and pass on information about its members that are not so on the band wagon or clueless or neglectful with their responsibility and ethics?

Thanks in advance as I am rather stuck on this in general in life and have run across some painful experiences where my thinking it is my responsibility to flush out information so everyone can learn and grow has not been welcomed. It was seen as gossip as opposed to educating from peoples experiences that didn't work. I don't want to get stuck in that again without meaning to.

It sounds like gossip to me. Do you mean you'd tell someone in your local poly community, an acquaintance, not a good friend, that their spouse was breaking their boundaries? Like, "I saw your h having dinner with this blonde bimbo last night, out of town"?

Flushing out info? Sounds like shit-stirring to me. Sorry.
 
It sounds like gossip to me. Do you mean you'd tell someone in your local poly community, an acquaintance, not a good friend, that their spouse was breaking their boundaries? Like, "I saw your h having dinner with this blonde bimbo last night, out of town"?

Flushing out info? Sounds like shit-stirring to me. Sorry.
Redpepper never mentioned saying anything like that. I think that certainly is stepping over the line though. Getting involved in peoples' personal lives. But I think using your own experiences to educate people is fine. Say it was your spouse who was breaking these boundaries. Then it's no longer gossip, it's your own life.

I think as long as your friends and whoever else is ok with it, you could also use those examples, but let them talk about it. What information you give would be different to someone who actually experienced it.
 
RP, do you mean that there is someone in your local poly community who is behaving unethically, as you see it, and you want to know if it would be cool for you to let other people know about it? I sort of recall reading about something similar from you before. Have you tried to intervene in other situations and this is why you've been called a gossip?

When you say, "What can one do, if anything, to help them understand how what they do is harmful, neglectful; essentially irresponsible and unethical? Is it a communities responsibility to rally around and pass on information about its members..." it sounds like you have a certain standard that others are not living up to and you feel you should inform them about it so that they stop doing what you think they shouldn't be doing. It does come across as a bit judgmental and meddling, I have to say. But without knowing exactly what you're talking about, I'm only guessing here.

Plus, I don't think that, just because there is a community of polyamorous people that get together and know each other where you live, that they all must have the same standards and ethical guidelines among their own poly families and tangles. I mean, what are you going to uphold this person by? Your ethics?

What if they don't stop? Would you keep harping on them about it? Shame them with public exposure? Everyone has free will and no amount of counseling (which could be seen by them as a reprimand) will necessarily prevent anyone from continuing to do what they want to do. If you want to expose this person because people he or she is involved with are getting hurt, then I would think a private talk with the person they are hurting would be better. Who knows - you might find out that what this person is doing is consensual and agreed upon/approved by others. Or that everyone knows about it already and no one really cares.


The word "ethical" is subjective to me.

Yes, this is true. It all depends on the set of standards (ethics) in place within a specific culture or community. Everyone has their own unique sense of ethics.
 
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RP, "What can one do?"

I think a written warning may help express the seriousness of the ethics breakdown and also a platform to help layout the proper information. Perhaps getting others in the community to sign the warning letter will help show the solidarity of the community....also it acts as an ethics committee if one doesn't already exist.
 
Yes, this is true. It all depends on the set of standards (ethics) in place within a specific culture or community. Everyone has their own unique sense of ethics.

True. However I doubt that lying to people can ever be called ethical, and this seems to be the biggest "ethical violation" I see people doing to each other (in monogamous or poly relationships).

It's like people think disclosure and honesty is all great to a point-- until something comes up that they want to do that they think (real or not) they "shouldn't", they do it anyway and then are too chicken to man up about it.
 
RP, "What can one do?"

I think a written warning may help express the seriousness of the ethics breakdown and also a platform to help layout the proper information. Perhaps getting others in the community to sign the warning letter will help show the solidarity of the community....also it acts as an ethics committee if one doesn't already exist.



And no talking during the fire drill.
 
Geez, if this ( gossip becoming someones way of 'upholding' ethical non-monogamy ) ever becomes the norm, nobody is EVER going to tell me the secret handshake. :rolleyes:
So,..be careful who you shame. Be careful who you feel isn`t holding up to your personal, ethical standards.
It is a slippery slope deciding who is a lying scumbag, and who isn`t holding up your own personal truths.


- If someone says 'Owhh I think _____ is dreamy ! What do you think ?'
Tell them you think he`s a lying idiot. Maybe with tact, if you aren`t a fan of fireworks. This is a opinion. Just expect to deal with people who don`t like your opinion.

- If you corner a person and tell them you think what they are doing is unethical, or they are with someone unethical, then this is unsolicited advice. Sometimes useful, sometimes not. Also, expect some probability of fireworks.

- If you simply SEE someone engaging with someone you don`t like, ( or even worse, tell something based on hearsay ) and you mention it to a friend of their`s, hoping it will get back to them,...this is gossip. This is a good way to have people stop trusting you, and losing respect for you.


The subject does not matter. It does not matter if you are the little old lady down the road, condemning people for not following the path of the christian bible, or a woman in the new-age condemning people for not following the 'bible' of ethical non-monogamy.

It`s all in the delivery. Regardless, you take responsibility for your actions, because you are basing things off your own, personal truths.
 
Neon,

Great point ....absolutely no talking during the fire drills...however that stern warning letter would come from the health and safety committee. I like the fact you're tough but fair ...and here's where that really plays out. Thank you.


Sourgirl

Whats wrong with you ....how many times do we have to show you the GD hand shake ...come on pay attention....last time until you get written up. Your file is gettin pretty thick as is.


And to the bulk of your comments .....Could we get an AMEN sister. Very fiery you go girl.....you rock!
 
Sourgirl

Whats wrong with you ....how many times do we have to show you the GD hand shake ...come on pay attention....last time until you get written up. Your file is gettin pretty thick as is.
And to the bulk of your comments .....Could we get an AMEN sister. Very fiery you go girl.....you rock!

Well I have this buzzer stuck to my hand, it keeps zapping people. :p

Shhhhhhhh !!!!!! No telling people I rock.
Well ok, maybe just this once. :cool:

Thank you. :)
 
Thanks for the posts. They were mostly helpful. I recognize that is it hard to answer because of the vagueness of what I said. Sorry about that, but because of the topic and where I was at at the time I felt I needed to be.

NYCindie, you were the closest to helping me out, I appreciate it. :)

It's a matter of someone's behaviour being seen as unethical by a group of people who want to do something about the lesson learned in a general way and have asked me to be involved. I have given them my answer and explained where I am at with it all. I would prefer to incorporate what I personally have learned and trust that others do the same, including those directly involved. Its not my business.

:confused: now to go about the long process of what I have learned and figuring out how to use it.

Thanks... ethics are a funny thing to deal with and yes, subjective... :)
 
Hmm. As to whether something is gossip or not - there is a ton of hypothetical what if-situations we could come up with, whereas everyone needs to make their own decisions in real life, but I would say that if I suspect serious harm might occur were I not to meddle, I would go and meddle and face the allegation of being a gossip rather than watch someone getting seriously hurt.

Hypothetical examples; a friend of mine had a bad experience of forced sex with person x, which they shared with me in confidence, and now another friend is excited about going on a first date with person x; or someone I know has disclosed to me that they are afraid they have HIV but are too scared to go get themselves tested, and I know they don't use condoms with their partners.
 
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