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  #11  
Old 03-05-2018, 09:48 PM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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One of my friends swears on a book by Mark Manson: Attracting women through honesty. I don't know if it would help you any.

You do seem to have a lot of beliefs about how men are and how women are and behave.
I encourage you to reconsider. You could maybe see yourself as being someone not-quite-mainstream relating to those who are also exceptional.
After all, by adopting polyamory, you're already doing something radical. Stereotypes don't help.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2018, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeLearning View Post
Well, from what I've read, I'm not properly poly because in my low self esteem aspect I don't like being friendly with my partner's partners. It's an open relationship where there's permission to play around but no requirement of everyone getting along.
I only have one aspect with low self esteem. 99% of my personality and self, I'm happy with and feel that I'm often better off than others.
That 1% left gets triggered by feeling like I've got no choice about being left out of the fun part of having an open relationship, except for taking the long path, which I am working on.
Maybe you are reading the wrong things. Being friends with your partner's partners is not important. The key to poly is being open to multiple loving relationships. You said playing around, which is not poly, but that's okay.

Nothing wrong with the long path. My wife and I were friends for a couple years before we got together. Even then she was married to someone else at first. And she was the one who hit on me lol.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2018, 06:02 AM
SomeDudeLearning SomeDudeLearning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinwen View Post
One of my friends swears on a book by Mark Manson: Attracting women through honesty. I don't know if it would help you any.

You do seem to have a lot of beliefs about how men are and how women are and behave.
I encourage you to reconsider. You could maybe see yourself as being someone not-quite-mainstream relating to those who are also exceptional.
After all, by adopting polyamory, you're already doing something radical. Stereotypes don't help.
Good points, especially the preconceptions. I've been lectured before about basing that on experience and observation rather than optimism.
I'll check out the book. Thanks. Constructive data.
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Originally Posted by vinsanity0 View Post
Maybe you are reading the wrong things. Being friends with your partner's partners is not important. The key to poly is being open to multiple loving relationships. You said playing around, which is not poly, but that's okay.

Nothing wrong with the long path. My wife and I were friends for a couple years before we got together. Even then she was married to someone else at first. And she was the one who hit on me lol.
I figure if I'd read the right things maybe I'd be further down that long path.
And the whole way trying to play along with this game, I'd have been happy to have even multiple friendly relationships. I figure if I were good at pulling those out of the ether, I'd have a fair chance of evolving them. Loving relationships? That's somewhere down that long path aforementioned.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:45 AM
SomeDudeLearning SomeDudeLearning is offline
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Originally Posted by Tinwen View Post
One of my friends swears on a book by Mark Manson: Attracting women through honesty. I don't know if it would help you any.

You do seem to have a lot of beliefs about how men are and how women are and behave.
I encourage you to reconsider. You could maybe see yourself as being someone not-quite-mainstream relating to those who are also exceptional.
After all, by adopting polyamory, you're already doing something radical. Stereotypes don't help.
I read what I could find about the book.
It looks pretty good. The common, yet hardly doable, thread between it and others I've read, is the self-love requirement. That one is rough.
Ironic that I find so much of myself pretty awesome... Except for this. This part of me, I'd happily delete without second thoughts. It's really hard going 35 years without ever seriously failing to manage anything important to oneself, and then suddenly have to spend a flipping decade failing to manifest something that's important enough to feel truly bad about not having.

Since the going advice seems to be "Choke it down and make it happen like magic," or, "Most other guys are as bad off themselves, cope with it," and that's very close to ten years deep now...

I'm renewing my search for sex drive suppressants. Can't use it often enough to keep it happy, super tired of dealing with it and all its various side effects on mood and outlook on life... Want it gone. Preferably gone completely and not reduced.
And yes, if I were in the appropriate income bracket, I would totally have had surgery by now to make this stop permanently.

Any useful suggestions? When you can't catch one thing, switch bait.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2018, 05:29 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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I'm sorry you struggle.

Quote:
I feel that if I had social skills and liked going out doing the things others do for fun together, I'd be a good catch for a woman looking for a decent man. As I'm lacking in both those features, those women don't get to have me walk up and introduce myself as a prospect for any sort of interaction.
I wonder what you are doing to develop better social skills? Are you willing to read a book? Take a class? Something else?

To me it would be flipped if the desired outcome is better social skills.

You start walking up to women and introduce yourself as a prospect for some kind of interaction in ORDER TO DEVELOP the desired social skills.

In getting to know the people, you figure out if there are things in common you both might like doing together for fun.

Quote:
In my opinion, and the opinions of some other guys and a few women who are friends only, I'm pretty cool and worth getting to know. I'm just not good enough at the process of connecting with new people...
What makes connecting with new people hard for you? For me? I have to do it one to one or in small groups. I cannot deal with big groups. I hate small talk, so trying to do it in large numbers wears me out. I can manage it in smaller groups.

Is it something like that or something else that makes connecting hard?

It almost sounds like maybe you think your chances for dating as a "poly person" are limiting you even more than if you were just dating as a "plain single." But if you stopped participating in the poly thing, that means ending it with the current partner... without guarantee a new partner would arrive.

So it's like you are stuck in a "meh" poly thing you don't esp enjoy that leaves you lonely when your partner is out having fun elsewhere while you are home envying her social skills. Like... not esp fulfulling companionship here. Esp with 10 years of (maybe?) incompatible sex drives.

Or stuck thinking about not even having that level of companionship if you stop doing the poly thing with her.

Is that it?

(I'm having a hard time following your story. Please forgive me if I am getting bits wrong.)

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-13-2018 at 05:35 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2018, 05:59 PM
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Hi Kelly,

You seem to be saying that the trouble you're having finding people to date is painful, so painful that you wish you could eliminate your libido. I'm sorry to hear that, I feel for you. I can offer you links and advice, but I don't know if any of that will make your search significantly easier. Sorry I couldn't offer more.

Resources you can use in your search:
... and

Quote:
"As for where to meet poly people, if by some chance you are interested in anything alternative like Renaissance fairs, goth culture, sci-fi conventions, indie music, bdsm, or any small fringe group, you will be more likely to meet people who have at least heard of poly and are accepting of it."
-- SpaceHippieGeek, Polyamorous Percolations
Even if it's not an "alternative" type group, if there's a club or something in your area that does something you're interested in, you can always join that group and it just gives you a way to get out there and meet people. If you meet someone on a platonic level and get to talking about poly, then they can decide how they feel about it without any "pressure to agree." Then if they do decide poly doesn't bother them too much, and some kind of romantic connection subsequently develops, you'll already have "had the poly conversation" with them.

Just some thoughts.
Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:53 PM
Tinwen Tinwen is offline
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Originally Posted by SomeDudeLearning View Post
I'm renewing my search for sex drive suppressants. Can't use it often enough to keep it happy, super tired of dealing with it and all its various side effects on mood and outlook on life... Want it gone. Preferably gone completely and not reduced.
And yes, if I were in the appropriate income bracket, I would totally have had surgery by now to make this stop permanently.
Whoa, that makes me sad. Would like to help you somehow, but not sure if I can.

In your other thread you seem to indicate that your sex life with your wife is intermittent at best, you go long stretches without, which you haven't mentioned here. If so, that, to me, seems to be a much bigger issue than not finding connections outside Why isn't it working with your wife? (I decided to respond here, but I can read your other thread if you respond there instead.)

Quote:
I read what I could find about the book.
It looks pretty good. The common, yet hardly doable, thread between it and others I've read, is the self-love requirement. That one is rough.
Ironic that I find so much of myself pretty awesome... Except for this. This part of me, I'd happily delete without second thoughts. It's really hard going 35 years without ever seriously failing to manage anything important to oneself, and then suddenly have to spend a flipping decade failing to manifest something that's important enough to feel truly bad about not having.
Well, don't be too harsh on yourself for 'failing'. It's very ... human. I've failed in so many ways.

I get the feeling though that although you see your 'inability' to manifest playful sexual connections as your only problem, that's hardly the case. It seems minor, but it isn't. You're letting this one area of your life impact your overall happiness profoundly. Don't be ashamed to seek therapy.

I don't know if self-love is truly your sticking point, but if it is and you want to practice that, the youtube resources I know are Tara Brach with her RAIN method (I'd recommend that to pretty much anyone), and Teal Swan (she's a bit out there with many of her claims though).

Good luck, Tinwen
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Last edited by Tinwen; 03-13-2018 at 06:58 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2018, 02:18 PM
SomeDudeLearning SomeDudeLearning is offline
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Sorry, so many responses that some get away from me and I don't respond quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I'm sorry you struggle.



I wonder what you are doing to develop better social skills? Are you willing to read a book? Take a class? Something else?

To me it would be flipped if the desired outcome is better social skills.

You start walking up to women and introduce yourself as a prospect for some kind of interaction in ORDER TO DEVELOP the desired social skills.
I've read a lot. Haven't seen any classes on the topic. Not interested in unrelated classes, really burned out on formal school after the last two attempts at online classes.
I've read it's necessary to ignore my perception that talking to random people without any indication it's wanted is uncool. I base that on my own feelings about having other guys come up and try to draw me into interactions, rather than on my desire to have women do the same thing. I don't want to cause the same negative feelings I get from people I've got absolutely zero interest in pushing themselves at me (offering interaction, is how you put it, but guys seem inherently pushy.) I'd love to cause the same positive feelings that I get on the rare occasions that a woman talks to me first, it's just hard to imagine women being as desperate as I get for cross gender communication.
Quote:

In getting to know the people, you figure out if there are things in common you both might like doing together for fun.
That takes conversation and at least some level of willingness to move past small talk. Not something I have managed very many times.
Quote:
What makes connecting with new people hard for you? For me? I have to do it one to one or in small groups. I cannot deal with big groups. I hate small talk, so trying to do it in large numbers wears me out. I can manage it in smaller groups.

Is it something like that or something else that makes connecting hard?
ABSOLUTELY. Group things just make me uncomfortable and unhappy. And getting one on one interaction time hasn't happened very much because I can't go fish that out of group settings. Small talk is horrible and it's hard to have real conversations unless it's about the paranormal or some other thing disassociated from normal reality.
Quote:

It almost sounds like maybe you think your chances for dating as a "poly person" are limiting you even more than if you were just dating as a "plain single." But if you stopped participating in the poly thing, that means ending it with the current partner... without guarantee a new partner would arrive.

So it's like you are stuck in a "meh" poly thing you don't esp enjoy that leaves you lonely when your partner is out having fun elsewhere while you are home envying her social skills. Like... not esp fulfulling companionship here. Esp with 10 years of (maybe?) incompatible sex drives.
yeah, approx ten years since our drive levels diverged.
And I'm aware that ending what I have means having nothing at all. Happened before, it's still an improvement being alone without any physical contact at all, than being stressed about something unpleasant that is the only thing in the world that I've been unable to repair enough to get by.
Quote:
Or stuck thinking about not even having that level of companionship if you stop doing the poly thing with her.

Is that it?
my personal mental loops aren't about the potential "joys" of being single. They're about my incompetencies and shortcomings that prevent me from having a happy existence while there's half-poly going on. When it's not happening, I slowly fade back into my normal mode of things being good enough and not stressful. I wasn't happy being single but I wasn't stressed and feeling lousy about myself during that time either.
Quote:
(I'm having a hard time following your story. Please forgive me if I am getting bits wrong.)

Galagirl
I think you've got some of it right, and I appreciate you trying to understand and ask for clarification. And offering advice and comparisons to your experience is good reading even if I've seen the advice before and haven't been able to use it due to personal limitations.

Last edited by SomeDudeLearning; 03-15-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:25 PM
SomeDudeLearning SomeDudeLearning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Hi Kelly,

You seem to be saying that the trouble you're having finding people to date is painful, so painful that you wish you could eliminate your libido. I'm sorry to hear that, I feel for you. I can offer you links and advice, but I don't know if any of that will make your search significantly easier. Sorry I couldn't offer more.

Resources you can use in your search:
... and



Even if it's not an "alternative" type group, if there's a club or something in your area that does something you're interested in, you can always join that group and it just gives you a way to get out there and meet people. If you meet someone on a platonic level and get to talking about poly, then they can decide how they feel about it without any "pressure to agree." Then if they do decide poly doesn't bother them too much, and some kind of romantic connection subsequently develops, you'll already have "had the poly conversation" with them.

Just some thoughts.
Regards,
Kevin T.
thanks.
everything you've listed for groups in the quote except bdsm suits me well enough. Being vanilla to the point of being boring unless physical affection is adequate in and of itself kept me from making connections in that crowd.
Being around people with cool interests is nice and all but does not make it any easier to find someone who appears willing to talk at random.
I clearly have to break my personal feelings about random approach being offensive to the approached party to manage the "go talk to randos without concern for feelings or outcome" advice that pervades everything.
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:10 PM
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Sorry I didn't have any new or useful ideas. Maybe I'll think of something later, or maybe someone other than me will think of something. I think it's usually hard for men to find women to date. Extra hard if you are an introvert. My only suggestion there is maybe there's a therapist out there somewhere who could offer you some social skills you could learn.
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