Being "in a relationship" (sex & love)

I use to love casual sex and have many lovers but something changed after I met nate and I started finding it completely unsatisfying. I imagine I'd like it better if I lived alone and could host. I figured out that I really need to actually sleep with the people i have sex with. Almost all my sex partners slept over with me.
 
I'm another who needs an emotional connection to someone before I have sex with them, but that connection can be as thin as "I like you and we seem to get along pretty well." And I agree with Vinsanity that FWB isn't casual; I would say I've had deeper connections with some of the people I would consider "friends" than with some people with whom I've been in "relationships."

I generally have trouble sleeping when someone else is in bed with me. Took a long time to get used to it with Hubby, where "long time" means about 3 years. Sometimes I still have trouble falling asleep if he is in bed when I go to bed, so usually he stays up until I've had time to go to sleep. With other partners with whom I've tried to spend the night, I generally doze and wake frequently until it's late enough in the morning to get up, at which point I'm extremely relieved to get out of the damn bed. The only partner I've had no trouble falling asleep with, or staying asleep with, was S2.
 
I'm another who needs an emotional connection to someone before I have sex with them, but that connection can be as thin as "I like you and we seem to get along pretty well." And I agree with Vinsanity that FWB isn't casual; I would say I've had deeper connections with some of the people I would consider "friends" than with some people with whom I've been in "relationships."

I find these words quite helpful in unfolding my process of inquiry. Thanks.

I'm starting to realize some thing about how I am, and I'm not so very different from this "thin" definition. What I really, really, deeply don't want is to be treated as a thing, an object, a sex toy, a masturbation device. I want my partner in sex (for whatever duration we are such partners) to care about me, like me, respect me, and treat me like a freaking human being that they care about and have empathy and compassion toward ... and some willingness to at least try to understand me (which is implicit in all the words I've used already).

Sexually and romantically, I tend to gravitate toward men. But I'm overwhelmingly certain that there may be (and have been) times when the feminine is of foreground, heightened appeal. I'm very androgynous! And I mention my sexual / romantic orientation mainly because I've found that so many men (at least where I live) are not open to actually loving other men in a "romantic" way. Lots and lots of men round here just want to use men as sex toys, objects, things... as if the person didn't even matter ... and as if sex had nothing whatsoever to do with connection or bonding. But I bond with my skin -- through skin-to-skin contact ... kisses and touch. This is an art form for me, and one of my favorite things to do with people. I used to assume I was commonplace in this respect. Sadly, I don't think I'm all that common at all. It's damned difficult to find anyone who will come to that dance with me.
 
I had 3 GFs at once, sex all the time, I was unhappy because I always wound up being alone. I had live ins with lots of sex and barely anything else. When I met my wife, we found we had more than sex, and when we introduced a 3some into our lives, it was great, except we both want more than sex from a woman. I have on several times turned down sex from a woman, because it would be more drama if we went past sex.
 
... it was great, except we both want more than sex from a woman. I have on several times turned down sex from a woman, ...

In my experience (though initially it looks like petty nit-picking) that the word "from" is very telling here.

When we want (or don't want) something "from" another person, we're at a different level or stage in our way of relating with people than when the word "with" becomes the foreground, natural, appropriate and best choice of words.

We use the word "from" about relationships when we see other people as resources which either provide or do not provide us with something we think
we want from them. As soon as we utter the word "from" we're indicating that we see the other person as a kind of piggy bank or store house of the resource we're wanting.

Yeah, I know, it may be nit picking. But try on for size the word "with". Imagine instead that what you really want is not something "from" someone, but something with the person instead. If you explore this question carefully and don't treat it as a trivial nit picking, you may have an "ah-ha" moment.

I honestly don't want anything from anyone ever again for as long as I live. And if ever I find myself imagining or feeling that I do, I'll probably very quickly catch myself in it and realize that all of this "from" business is delusional nonsense (for me).

What most of us probably really want is never "from" but with. When we are experiencing genuine closeness, intimacy and love, the word "with" obviously stands out as a FAR better word for what we want than "from".

"From" relationships are unidirectional relationships -- a kind of extraction process not entirely unlike mining or oil drilling. A resource is extracted.

"With" relationships are deeply empathetic, kind, compassionate and loving (give and give instead of give and take). We find that we do not want something from our beloved. We instead want to share something with him or her.

Our predominant culture's notion of love, sadly, is the image of a very scarce resource which we must extract from others.

It is time for us to correct this by deliberately, consciously re-framing love as something we have with others, which is shared (and thus multiplied, and thus never in the least scarce).

I'm talking about a revolution. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gS8yzymivo
 
River, they saw us as you saw as the piggy bank. I had women come out and tell me they had a live in BF, kids and they wanted something on the side. I wanted wanted more and my wife has expressed the same
 
River, they saw us as you saw as the piggy bank. I had women come out and tell me they had a live in BF, kids and they wanted something on the side. I wanted wanted more and my wife has expressed the same

Yeah, often folks are seeking sex as a thing, almost like a commodity. They see others as someone they can get that from.

Personally, I find intimacy with others (be it sexual, emotional, etc.) vastly more fulfilling and desirable than anything I can "get from" someone. But all "with-relationships" are rooted in compassion and empathy, which is the basis of real connection and genuine intimacy. When people are being empathetic, they want to get to know you ... how it feels to be you, what you really want, etc.... Ultimately, all genuine human relationships are with rather than from relationships -- because they honor the particulars and uniqueness and "inwardness" of the people involved ... and help us feel and be in a state of belonging.

From relationships do not create belonging. They interfere with and obviate the possibility of that.

My intention here is not to be "didactic," though it may seem that I am. I'm merely sharing what I'm learning from my many teachers, who are everywhere. Everyone is my teacher, so I surely have the right to "teach" some of what I'm learning, too!
 
A lot, women and men see sex as to tool to get what you want, to to do something to get it. We had a couple that we saw through them and said 'time to go'. I wish we could just find someone to fit in with us. All around fit in, not just one thing or another
 
In post #9, Karen (FallenAngelina) said:

Your new love relationship confims that. You spell out exactly why in your other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
....And that 25% desire is about 95% desire to share something WITH, rather than get something FROM -- also a new state of love for me.

In other words, I don't think (or feel) of him as the source of my love experience, even though I do experience him as its obvious local inspiration.

I'm experiencing this as a much more mature way of being "in love" than any previous one I've experienced. In fact, in some interesting way, I feel as if he's my unwitting teacher of such a mature kind of love. I am a willing student of such an unfolding love.

----------------
Where did that come from? It would help me understand this thread. I looked in River's blog and couldn't find it there.

Thanks!

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me - Mandelbrot - female, 60 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
Clyde (previously B) - 58 - my husband for over 36 years
Jacques (previously JP) - 60 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture fall of 2013 after 38 years; very long distance; diagnosed with frontotemporal lobe dementia
Artemis (previously A) - 67 - Jacques' wife of over 33 years
 
In post #9, Karen (FallenAngelina) said:

"Your new love relationship confims that. You spell out exactly why in your other thread."


Where did that come from? It would help me understand this thread. I looked in River's blog and couldn't find it there.

I suspect FallenAngelina was referring to an early post in this thread.:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77293


Edit:

Oh, wait, the actual quoted material came from yet another thread. Here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=313085#post313085

When folks here use the "quote" function, the machine provides a little blue box with a > (arrow) symbol next to the quote. If you click on that it will take you to the quoted post -- wherever it may be within the forum.
 
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I'm experiencing my love now as roughly 75% joyful and free celebration of the person's loveliness and roughly 25% desire. This is a radical departure from previous "in love" experiences for me. And that 25% desire is about 95% desire to share something WITH, rather than get something FROM -- also a new state of love for me.

In other words, I don't think (or feel) of him as the source of my love experience, even though I do experience him as its obvious local inspiration.

I'm experiencing this as a much more mature way of being "in love" than any previous one I've experienced. In fact, in some interesting way, I feel as if he's my unwitting teacher of such a mature kind of love. I am a willing student of such an unfolding love.

Here it is.
 
Thanks!

Hi River and FallenAngelina,

When folks here use the "quote" function, the machine provides a little blue box with a > (arrow) symbol next to the quote. If you click on that it will take you to the quoted post -- wherever it may be within the forum.

Thanks very much! I've learned something about navigating this forum!

P.S. An astute observer will notice that my age has gone up since Tuesday. Wednesday was my birthday. 6 months since I saw Jacques. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=305051&postcount=14 if you want to read about it

FAL

--------------------------------

M - Me - Mandelbrot - female, 61 - _trying_ to figure out if I'm poly
Clyde (previously B) - 58 - my husband for over 36 years
Jacques (previously JP) - 60 - my high school boyfriend, newly appeared in the picture fall of 2013 after 38 years; very long distance; diagnosed with frontotemporal lobe dementia
Artemis (previously A) - 67 - Jacques' wife of over 33 years
 
There is "recreational sex with friends" and then there's "love"

We've been swingers for 20 + years and made many friends, some good ones, we've done a lot more than kiss many 100's of others and it was great healthy sporting fun. But that has always been very different to my relationship between us it was love. And now at first sight again with our new friend it feels the same and very different to swinging. I don't think sex, kissing, actually is the important part its more the smiling, and the eyes, and a whole lot that poets have failed to adequately describe for several millennia. But I'm the romantic one of our trio, and luckily never had my heart broken.
 
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