Why is this so complicated?

Ditty1009

New member
Hi there...

Was looking for support for a"Hotwife" situation and found this forum. Quick history:

My husband and I have been married for nearly 18 years. Sharing me with another man has always been a fantasy of my husband. We dabbled with the lifestyle a bit about 10 yrs ago but it got complicated and decided to stop.

Fast forward to this past summer when a man I met through our child's sporting event made it very clear that he was interested in me. There have been a few guys come into view over the past 10 yrs that I was curious about but none that made me consider opening things up again. Until, that is, I met this particular. Sexual attraction and desire from the very start. Because I'm not interested in having an "affair" and I knew of my husband's past interests in sharing me, I told husband I wanted to have "an adventure". Husband knew that the man and I had been texting for well over a month but it still came as a bit of a surprise. Mostly because I had been the one who had suggested we shut down our activities of the past. But there was just something about this man I needed to explore.

Anyhow, husband was thrilled to be able to flesh out the "Hotwife Fantasy" he has always been so interested in. The first couple months were very hot but not uncomplicated. My husband struggles with the desire vs jealousy controversy that is not uncommon to this lifestyle. The jealousy was a factor in shutting it down last time and he promised over and over it "wouldn't be like that this time". The first couple of months, I had been able to put up with the wrenches husband would throw at me ("You spend too much time with him", "I'm not sure I want you to see him" but then asks me a day later when I was planning to see him next?!?!, All hot and bothered about me going to be with my friend but as soon as he cums it is not appealing anymore, etc) but as of late, this side of it is making me miserable. I love my husband dearly and have really enjoyed making this fantasy a reality for him again but his hot/cold feelings about this are confusing, frustrating and, honestly, unfair. I feel that he dangles my play friend in front of me and wants me to have him but is ready to snatch him away when I try to grasp for him.

I'd like to throw in the towel however...My play friend is a fantastic lover. I'm not going to say he is better than my husband. Just different. The way I feel when I am with him is unlike anything I have experienced with another man. It is wild and passionate and intense. We connect on a sexy friendship level (if there is such a thing?) I enjoy our play times so so so much but always crave the comfort and connection of my marriage and life with my husband. I care for my play friend very much but am, by no means, feeling I want to leave my husband for him. Play friend knows this and is respectful of my primary relationship. He says he "knows his place" and I take comfort in that.

Another frustrating component to all this is that from the time husband and I opened things up again to now, husband has said it's no longer enough that he wants to share me, he wants to "participate". He wants to be *with me* when I'm with another man. I'm not so much into this. I mean, I would do it if I "had to" but its not something I would initiate myself. I feel like he's changing how the "game is played" and from time to time (like this morning) he reminds me that "it's all good" if I want to play but at some level he's not getting what he wants.... me with another guy. I know that my play friend has no interest in that side of what we are doing and, honestly, I wouldn't want that with him. What we have is ours, not to share. (this dimension is making me think I am polyamorous which needs to be a separate post on it's own).

Ugh. In the 10 or so minutes that I have been typing this I'm sitting here wondering what it is that I want from y'all in response to this. I guess I need to feel not so alone in this. Husband and I are definitely not on the same page. I don't want to stop seeing my play friend or shutting down all activities... but am having a hard time justifying this mind fuck.

Any suggestions?
 
If you negotiated a certain way to conduct your marriage and that no longer works for you, then you need to negotiate a change. Your husband isn't the bad guy for wanting things to stay the same, and you're not the bad guy for wanting them to change, but you do need to reconcile the two.

As a point of interest, does your boyfriend know he's only "allowed" to be involved with you as a source of sexual excitement for your husband, or has he been assuming that his relationship is just between the two of you?
 
Yes, my play friend knows that my husband and I have an open relationship and that he is a source of pleasure not only for me, but for my husband as well. I was clear with him from the very beginning that I wasn't looking to have an affair. Just wanted to supplement my own desires while living out a fantasy/lifestyle interest. He has been good about staying within the lines.

Now that's not to say that he's not pushed to see me at times when we normally wouldn't be seeing each other. He has done that but he know that sometimes I can spend time with him, sometimes I cannot.
 
If you negotiated a certain way to conduct your marriage and that no longer works for you, then you need to negotiate a change. Your husband isn't the bad guy for wanting things to stay the same, and you're not the bad guy for wanting them to change, but you do need to reconcile the two.

Btw: *My husband* initiated the change in what we decided as far as me playing outside the marriage. I agreed that I would play his "Hotwife" and now he's saying he wants participation in a 3 way. Totally different breeds of cat.
 
Just to be clear, this is not polyamory. That's not to say the two of you will never reach that point. You are just nowhere near that yet.

I think what is going on here is fairly common with couples who venture into opening up their relationship sexually.

  1. This was a fantasy for your husband. As you've found out, people can lose interest once they cum and come back to reality. His fantasy probably never included you having an ongoing relationship.
  2. Couples often make the mistake of assuming they can have sex with people and never develop feelings for them. This might work with a series of one night stands, but is not likely with a regular partner. I mean, who keeps fucking someone they don't like?
  3. Couples often assume the other thinks like they do. This lack of verbal communication often leads to misunderstandings.

You are having a problem with some of your husband's behavior. He is having problems with some of yours. It's time to sit down and talk it out.
 
Yes, my play friend knows that my husband and I have an open relationship and that he is a source of pleasure not only for me, but for my husband as well. I was clear with him from the very beginning that I wasn't looking to have an affair.
I didn't mean "does he know your husband knows?", but " does he know your husband uses him for sexual gratification?" They are two quite different situations, but if he's aware of it and has consented that's all good.
Btw: *My husband* initiated the change in what we decided as far as me playing outside the marriage. I agreed that I would play his "Hotwife" and now he's saying he wants participation in a 3 way. Totally different breeds of cat.
And now, as I understand it, you want to change your agreement from hotwifeing* (aka "the way it is now") to poly (the way you want it to be). Hubby also wants to change it from hotwifeing to voyeurism, so both of you are going to need to start discussing your options. The one thing guaranteed to fail is to avoid negotiating.

* how the ¥#€$@! do you spell that, anyway?
 
* how the ¥#€$@! do you spell that, anyway?

It'd be hotwifing.

As I understand it, the grammar rule for the present participle is that if the 'e' at the end of the word is silent, i.e. bake, skate, wife, etc then the 'e' drops and you add the '-ing.' If the e is not silent, say lie or die, the '-ie' becomes a 'y.'
 
Hi there... Why is this so complicated?

Human relationships are complex. Let me use an analogy because it might help. In a chess game, there are over 288 billion different possible positions after four moves each. That is with a fixed number of pieces with a fixed number of variables. Human relationships have no particular set of boundaries so the number of possibilities and outcomes is incalculable. How are we supposed to manage anything that complex?

Consider this: Former world champion Garry Kasparov, says your strength is not calculation, but rather your ability to intuit the right moves, even if their ultimate purpose is not clear. In other words at some point you need to distill the situation out to the best available alternative based on some general principles and how you feel so that no matter what happens you can live with the outcome, even if it doesn't go as planned.

This is part of the adventure. Embrace it and make your move :cool:
.
 
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Just to be clear, this is not polyamory. That's not to say the two of you will never reach that point. You are just nowhere near that yet.

I think what is going on here is fairly common with couples who venture into opening up their relationship sexually.

  1. This was a fantasy for your husband. As you've found out, people can lose interest once they cum and come back to reality. His fantasy probably never included you having an ongoing relationship.
  2. Couples often make the mistake of assuming they can have sex with people and never develop feelings for them. This might work with a series of one night stands, but is not likely with a regular partner. I mean, who keeps fucking someone they don't like?
  3. Couples often assume the other thinks like they do. This lack of verbal communication often leads to misunderstandings.

You are having a problem with some of your husband's behavior. He is having problems with some of yours. It's time to sit down and talk it out.

FWIW I completely agree and think that how we define polyamory is extremely relevant to any question that has to do with relationships on this forum, and therefore posts that include this perspective on a problem should not be arbitrarily deemed as irrelevant. It almost always has some bearing, and can be very important in sorting out a situation.
 
It sounds like your husband bases his ability to handle jealousy and all the challenges of an open relationship solely on his own sexual fantasy. That's really precarious, because there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. He may already feel that crumbling, since he's trying to grab on to a different sexual fantasy now, where he's more involved (and has more control).

Would he be capable of supporting your relationship with your play friend, if he no longer found it sexually exciting for himself? Are you open to him exploring other relationships?

His hotwife fabtasy just isn't a very stable foundation for your relationship structures. Do you think principles of polyamory might resonate for the two of you, to build a different kind of foundation?
 
Hello Ditty1009,

It sounds like you are stuck in a frustrating situation; first your husband dangles your play friend in front of you, then he snatches it away. And you could end the open situation but if you did, you'd be losing a terrific lover. No matter what you do, you are going to end up frustrated.

And your husband wants to be present when you and the friend play, which is another problem altogether. You would rather not go there, and your friend doesn't want to go there at all. Somehow this needs to be discussed with your husband. It all needs to be discussed with him. All of his problematic wants and behaviors. Maybe there's a compromise to be had somewhere but if there's not, then he needs to just cut it out. This was his idea in the beginning, he needs to recognize that these are the results.

Anyway, sit down with your husband, and talk.
With regards,
Kevin T.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

It sounds like your husband promised that things would not get weird again like the last time you were Open... and here he is getting weird again.

It is ok for you to say NO to sex acts you do not want to be doing. Even if husband wants threesomes with you and BF? If you do not want them you do not have to do it. Even BF doesn't seem to want this. So it is ok if it stays "fantasy only" for husband.

You are not responsible for making every one of his fantasies reality.

All hot and bothered about me going to be with my friend but as soon as he cums it is not appealing anymore, etc) but as of late, this side of it is making me miserable.

If telling him TMI details is no longer fun? Stop telling him details.

I love my husband dearly and have really enjoyed making this fantasy a reality for him again but his hot/cold feelings about this are confusing, frustrating and, honestly, unfair.

If listening to his feelings upsets you? Stop listening to them. He can express them to a journal or to a friend. It doesn't have to be you doing HIS emotional labor all the time.
I feel that he dangles my play friend in front of me and wants me to have him but is ready to snatch him away when I try to grasp for him.
Actually... you are in charge of who you spend your time with.

Husband's emotions belong to him. He can accept you are going out with grace or with a tantrum. You can choose how to respond to either of those... or not.

I feel like he's changing how the "game is played" and from time to time (like this morning) he reminds me that "it's all good" if I want to play but at some level he's not getting what he wants

If he says he is good even if he doesn't get to participate? BELIEVE HIM and let him deal with his own emotional management that he doesn't get EVERY fantasy he has made into reality.

Basically if being in a "kinda involved V" where you guys share sexy details no longer works for you? Move on to a "very separate V" where you don't share that info. Basics like birth control and sex health hygiene only. No "bonus" titillation stuff because it is not fun any more.

And if that doesn't work? Pick who you want to be with -- BF or husband and break up with one of them.

If husband... then no more being Open with him. You tried it twice and he gets weird about it and then you have all this blah/drag to deal with. So best just to skip it and not bother any more.

Keep this way simpler on yourself.

Galagirl
 
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