Nice little trainwreck so far

Okay, now I've been misunderstood, haha. Sometimes communicating online is tough, sorry I didn't express myself well. RP, I didn't mean to imply that you were saying that, sorry for sounding like that. I just thought I could see how someone might take it that way. But now it's been revealed that Conchordian was using sarcasm and I am the idiot here! Whoops! :eek:

Anyway, Sohuman, I think anyone here can identify with the confusion and not wanting to hurt someone. Many can also identify with your hubs' anger. I think you both would benefit from deconstructing the jealousy and looking at what's beneath it. I am sure more folks will weigh in, too.
 
I didn't mean to derail the thread. I can see what you meant about debate. People are ready to jump on just about anything that smells even remotely like one. (Y'all should be ashamed! Yeah, you know who you are...)

Either way... I deleted anything that was inflamatory, trying to clean up the thread. Probably too late, but there you have it, I'm trying my best.

My initial introduction was just meant to warn people that I might lash out. My problem with polyamory is not a problem with polyamory per se, but a problem with my wife using it as an excuse for her lack of control over the past few years (6 to be exact, but who's counting, it's not a contest). I really think she's mistaken if she thinks you "are" poly the same way you "are" gay (In fact I resent the idea that there's anything magical about this "ability" she has to "love" more than one person (more on that later)). I think she's a hypocrit for trying to use this bullshit to justify her lack of control and willingness to give up on the commitment we made simply because she wanted to go fuck other people (and did).

It is not a "special, magical ability to love more than one person" that made her cheat and lie, all the while refusing me the same freedom (of having extra marital encounters/relationships). It is her immature need for external validation, and seemingly uncontrollable craving for NRE. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's what makes someone "polyamorous".

So yes, there's anger, resentment, extreme intolerance for bullshit, accompanied by hope that she can REALLY be honest instead of insulting me by pussyfooting around the truth. I've never been very tolerant of BS to start with, but the woman has a much higher than average IQ, she knows better. It is insulting to me that she thinks she's going to pull one over on me by using half baked cop-out arguments to justify her past shortcomings, or to try to get what she wants in the future.

I think we're ready, and about to make progress, but I can see how that conversation is going to be really laborious, and tinged with more empty arguments. I'm ready for it though.
 
Just a quick thought for now Choncordian - when using sarcasm/humor it can help to use the smilies to the right of the text typing box... or to simply "put in quotes" or other punctuation marks ~sarcasm~ :p for us poor fools out here on trigger points :D

Just something i Have found very very helpful myself... I will add to the conversation itself later...
 
(In fact I resent the idea that there's anything magical about this "ability" she has to "love" more than one person (more on that later)).

I don't believe that it is a magical ability, I think it's everyone who has the ability, but poly people take the perspective that actually pursuing and exploring other connections does not necessarily mean there is something wrong with an existing relationship.

...using half baked cop-out arguments to justify her past shortcomings, or to try to get what she wants in the future.

BS-ing is what I have only very recently stopped doing. It has only been a few weeks that I haven't sought to rationalize past or current bad behavior.

Part of my seeking NRE comes from a good place, from a belief that romance (both new and old) and sex with emotional connection can be happy, even divinely fulfilling experiences that our bodies, minds, and very souls are designed to enjoy. The dark side of my seeking NRE is a significant insecurity about my worth, and desire for constant enthusiastic validation. I have consistently chosen to have affairs with men who were far less empirically attractive than me or quite overweight or older, who I was not attracted to physically at all, in order to create a dynamic where they are in constant disbelief and drooling babbling admiration of me clothed or not. Blown-away verbal confirmation of my physical attractiveness equaled worth as an individual in my mind. Sometimes you just don't get that intensity from someone who's just as attractive as you are.... Looking at and understanding this dynamic as it relates to my marriage is a recent thing for me too. I liked the part of Ethical Slut where they're talking about the fact that people don't actually love each other for their perfect tits or whatever, anything pleasing is a happy icing on the cake & what they love you for is who you are.

Knowing myself a little better - specifically that I will need to create an emotional connection with anyone I am sexually involved with - would have helped me with that swinger situation. However, I looked back at my first message to them and I stated all of that, seriously, it is all laid out in one paragraph of my message... either he skimmed it or did not read it at all, and I don't think she ever read it. Also their original ad didn't say what they were within nonmonogamy. There were mistakes on their end that could have happened even if my husband and I had been poly from the start. Not all of our difficulties encountered with others in these early few weeks of honesty are 100% to do with us, but I see the value in holding off a bit.

I have two quotes from Flight of the Conchords that are relevant (fyi both my husband and I openly identify as bi-conchordians in that we like Bret and Jemaine equally):

Jemaine: I can see why you broke up with her. She was hard work.
Bret: Oh no, she broke up with me.
Jemaine: Yeah, she broke up with me too. That's what I mean, it was hard work staying together with her wanting to break up all the time.


Jemaine: It's just that I think she might be the one.
Bret: Sally?
Jemaine: Yeah.
Bret: What makes you think that?
Jemaine: You just know. When it happens to you, you'll know.
Bret: You said Michelle was the one.
Jemaine: Yeah, she's the one.
Bret: You said Claire was the one.
Jemaine: Yeah, she's another one.
Bret: So you get more than one one?
Jemaine: Some people are lucky. I've had a few ones.
Bret: So how many ones can you have?
Jemaine: Five.
Bret: How many have you had?
Jemaine: Three. How many have you had?
Bret: Just one. Just one.
 
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When a relationship is in trouble (cheating and lying being an obvious symptom of that), the answer is not to "add people." Pursuing polyamory won't fix the hurt and disillusionment caused by betrayal and dishonesty. You two probably need to work on your marriage, get into therapy, and maybe even consider not being together, before you try to wave the flag of being polyamorous as a reason for having multiple lovers. Sohuman, yes, look at building your self-esteem, not using low self-esteem as an excuse for reckless behavior, while you also take responsibility for what you did.

BTW, polyamory isn't really a lifestyle. All sorts of people in all sorts of lifestyles can be polyamorous.
 
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When a relationship is in trouble (cheating and lying being an obvious symptom of that), the answer is not to "add people." Pursuing polyamory won't fix the hurt and disillusionment caused by betrayal and dishonesty. You two probably need to work on your marriage, get into therapy, and maybe even consider not being together, before you try to wave the flag of being polyamorous as a reason for having multiple lovers. Sohuman, yes, look at building your self-esteem, not using low self-esteem as an excuse for reckless behavior, while you also take responsibility for what you did.

BTW, polyamory isn't really a lifestyle. All sorts of people in all sorts of lifestyles can be polyamorous.

Yep - but we are having some really productive conversations on our own now; if we reach a point where we aren't communicating as well we will find a poly-friendly professional.

We are both really good for each other and are not going to consider not being together, it would disrupt our progress and our toddler's living situation unnecessarily. We help alleviate each other's stress by cooperating on taking care of things, and by always taking care of each other and our child when any of us gets sick - which is all the time because her daycare is a germ incubation center. Also I want our child to see us expressing our regard for each other through affection, laughter, and calm respectful communication about issues that we are actively working through together, important ones, not just who left the seat up. We save the conversations that are likely to be less calm for after her bedtime so as not to scare her. I have already taught her to say what she is feeling when she is feeling it, and told her that she is capable, to a point, of choosing how she reacts to her emotions - especially anger and frustration. She has a book called "When I Feel Angry" that teaches about the dangers of hurting others in reaction to your anger and that you have a choice. Lastly, there is a surprising amount of boundary negotiation experience to be gained with a toddler, and maybe in helping each other with that we will get skills to do it with each other.

Point taken on the low self-esteem. Also I don't mean to try to speak for all poly people when I talk about my own beliefs about it.

You don't think he should pursue anything now, even if I'm ok with it? Will his resentment and anger toward me lead him to treat me or others badly? Cause I could see that, actually...
 
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I don't think anyone should be pursuing anyone right now personally. It sounds like you have a whole whack of stuff to sort out. Your desire to fuck men you aren't attracted to would be a start... You seem to know why, so why not find better ways to gain self esteem and self worth rather than turning your family life upside down. Do you not owe that to your commitment and to your baby girl, who will eventually follow your lead in how to relate to men?

I get where you are coming from with the kind of poly you have been having. I too have been known to do stuff to raise my self worth in an unhealthy manner. Only to find it was more depleted. To me that wasn't poly because self love is the first thing to me in poly. Be your own primary... not look to others for that...

It doesn't take long on this forum to find threads where I have struggled with casual sex since then. Do a tag search on the topic and you will see in about two seconds my fight with it... I damaged myself by believing that the sex was just fun and meaningless when really I subconsciously took it very seriously. My body took it seriously. You can see in photos from now and then the difference in my confidence and self love... my over all happiness has completely changed.

It was Mono that brought this change about when we first met (my now live in boyfriend). I did the work, and continue to, but he pointed something out to me in myself that I had not known for a long time. This was something that PN (husband) was not aware of and had not noticed or was not telling me... that is that I am worth more to others when I am me first and not a body to fuck.

I gave myself away to men that did not respect me. They used my body as a place to stick their cock and didn't even know the beauty I am inside as a person... they got off and took a bit of my soul every time... until I gave myself away freely and didn't really care that much as long as I got attention and felt falsely beautiful until they orgasmed.

I saw a documentary a couple of weeks ago of a brothel in Nevada. In it the house Madame said at one point that when the girls give a piece of there soul away every time they are with a John they need time to get that back. It's important to know that you give yourself away and that you have to concentrate on getting that back... this is what I feel I have done.

Don't get me wrong, people can and do have sex without all this that I talk about. They are able to be pleased with the experience for themselves and don't do it for self worth. They do it for pleasure...

I take my relationships very slowly now and have sex for the right reasons... When there becomes an obvious reason that it will not work FOR ME in healing my soul, expanding my love for myself and therefore others, I just don't do it. If you read my blog you will see some of this journey. I have found men and women that LOVE me... really LOVE me,,, not just want to get off. I am very fortunate, for sure, but I have worked my ass off to get here. It is possible.

It sounds like your man loves you... he is asking that you stop and look at yourself and your life. Your life with him and in your family... I think you would be wise to do that... Maybe you don't think that you need relationship therapy, but I do think you could use some of your own therapy... to get to the bottom of this trend you seem to be having. it has been going on for a long time... that path is possibly deeply routed by now and a new one needs forging. That could mean some help will be needed.

I wouldn't suggest either of you go out and date/fuck other people for a good while until you both have sorted some stuff out. I would wonder what conchordian hopes to gain by going out and finding women... to get even? To show you what it feels like? To find some comfort from someone else? To prove his manliness? I don't know, but it sounds like he is willing to hold off moving forward in that department until things are better balanced and some deep issues addressed and sorted out... After all that, maybe look at negotiating boundaries and think about trying again... who knows, you might find a lack of interest by then.

Last thing, I had a toddler once. Actually I went through the same shit you are now when my boy was a toddler. It is partly hormonal and a life stage for some women. You are not alone in this. There are others that feel that they have had a kid at their tit (if you breast fed... for me it was 3 years!) for way too long and all anyone sees them as is a mum... no independence or time to be free to come and go like it once was. That really widdles away on self worth. Keeping that in mind and making some plans for your future might help focus you in a different direction so that you can find other ways to gain self worth in your body and mind. Worth a shot I think.

This seems to have gone on longer, so I don't know if this is valid. I would wonder what happened 6 years ago that started this path. Might be worth looking at too.

@conchordian- Note on sarcasm. It really doesn't work in text very well I find. Unless you know people really well that is... (tested and found to be true...the hard way). As you are all new here, perhaps waiting a bit and using other threads like the "how are you" thread in the fireplace forum, to be sarcastic on, might help us get to know you better in this way... right now it just comes off that you are an asshole and something tells me you aren't. thanks :)
 
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You don't think he should pursue anything now, even if I'm ok with it?

Interesting how you left yourself out of the comment I made. No, no, no, you funny girl. ;) I meant that neither of you should be pursuing anyone else until you fix the broken relationship you have -- unless, of course, you're just addicted to drama and would get a thrill out of bringing a world of hurt down on you both. Your title is accurate -- it would be a train wreck.

Here's a few questions to ask yourself:

Do you honestly think that the smart thing to do is run around and find couples and people to fuck and suck (and possibly fall in love with) while your marriage is broken, with your husband hurt and angry at your betrayal?

Do you think that confessing should just be enough? You've got a lot of work to do to fix the damage left over from lies and cheating.

Do you honestly think your husband's just got to get over it while you go and do whatever you want?

Why do you care more about some swinger who's lusting after you while your husband needs you? While you need to focus on looking inward? You make it all seem kind of amusing, but you're living in a fantasy world.​

Marriage is work, relationship are work, and if you don't have a strong, stable foundation in a mutually respectful and loving marriage where you make taking care of each other your first priority, how do you think it's even possible for either of you to start moving outside of the marriage to have multiple relationships?

Where is the respect, not only for your husband and child, but for yourself?

Sure, you might think you can just admit what you did, talk a lot about it, "oh yes, I've done all that personal growth stuff already, la-dee-da," announce that you're now poly and come up with some hypothetical "boundaries" because you've read that that's what poly people do, and then go have lots of extramarital sex -- but what is that all about, really? You've said you want poly, and not swinging. From what you've posted here, you don't really seem ready for everything that poly demands for it to work to everyone's benefit, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. And I'm someone who is fine with casual sex, but I don't see how it will benefit you or your marriage right now.

All of the above said with "tough love," compassion, and the kind of cranky wagging of my finger at you that a 50-year old woman can get away with. :) People lie and cheat all the time. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it means you've got a lot of self-examining and repairing to do.

You want self-esteem, do esteemable things.
 
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Interesting how you left yourself out of the comment I made. No, no, no, you funny girl. ;) I meant that neither of you should be pursuing anyone else until you fix the broken relationship you have -- unless, of course, you're just addicted to drama and would get a thrill out of bringing a world of hurt down on you both. Your title is accurate -- it would be a train wreck.

Here's a few questions to ask yourself:

Do you honestly think that the smart thing to do is run around and find couples and people to fuck and suck (and possibly fall in love with) while your marriage is broken, with your husband hurt and angry at your betrayal?

Do you think that confessing should just be enough? You've got a lot of work to do to fix the damage left over from lies and cheating.

Do you honestly think your husband's just got to get over it while you go and do whatever you want?

Why do you care more about some swinger who's lusting after you while your husband needs you? While you need to focus on looking inward? You make it all seem kind of amusing, but you're living in a fantasy world.​

Marriage is work, relationship are work, and if you don't have a strong, stable foundation in a mutually respectful and loving marriage where you make taking care of each other your first priority, how do you think it's even possible for either of you to start moving outside of the marriage to have multiple relationships?

Where is the respect, not only for your husband and child, but for yourself?

Sure, you might think you can just admit what you did, talk a lot about it, "oh yes, I've done all that personal growth stuff already, la-dee-da," announce that you're now poly and come up with some hypothetical "boundaries" because you've read that that's what poly people do, and then go have lots of extramarital sex -- but what is that all about, really? You've said you want poly, and not swinging. From what you've posted here, you don't really seem ready all that poly demands for it to work to everyone's benefit, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. And I'm someone who is fine with casual sex, but I don't see how it will benefit you or your marriage right now.

All of the above said with "tough love," compassion, and the kind of cranky wagging of my finger at you that a 50-year old woman can get away with. :) People lie and cheat all the time. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it means you've got a lot of self-examining and repairing to do.

You want self-esteem, do esteemable things.

I just thought this should be in this thread twice.
 
I don't think anyone should be pursuing anyone right now personally.

Interesting how you left yourself out of the comment I made. No, no, no, you funny girl. ;) I meant that neither of you should be pursuing anyone else until you fix the broken relationship you have -- unless, of course, you're just addicted to drama and would get a thrill out of bringing a world of hurt down on you both. Your title is accurate -- it would be a train wreck.

These two thoughts are critical.

I'm poly.
I cheated.
I'm still married to my husband.
I'm still dating the man who I cheated with.

BUT-I've had to run myself through hell and back looking into myself and finding the parts of me that are fucked up-and then forcing myself to fix them.
I've had to run through hell to prove that I'm worthy of being trusted, I had to EARN that trust, trust I still don't have in full.

I haven't lied (about anything) to Maca since September 2009. I've been upfront and honest even when it took me to tears from the terror. I've accepted his anger, his distrust, his lack of faith for my failure to be honest before-every time he's dished it out. Even though it hurts like hell.

If you want to recreate your life-you need to focus on what it is that you need to correct about and in yourself. Not focus on anyone else-including your husband. This is about you.

to husband-if you want to recreate your life-you need to focus on what it is that you need to correct about and in yourself. Not focus on anyone else-including your wife. This is about you.

It's impossible to get it all back on track if you are busy listing the ways the other person is wrong. The only way to fix a trainwreck, is to get yourself OUT OF THE WRECKAGE. That means focusing on how YOU got yourself into it-not focusing on how the train got into you.
 
Sohuman, my list of questions were not based on Conchordian's posts, but on your original post where you wrote that you cheated and then described some drama that was going down with some swingers. I was responding to YOU, and everything you wrote in your posts, not to Conchordian. I re-read YOUR posts several times, and wrote back to YOU. If I were responding to him, I would have addressed it to him. I said in my post that what you did does NOT mean you're a bad person (didja skip over that part, too?), and I wasn't trying to put you down or "in your place." I have no interest in that. Believe it or not I was trying to be helpful. And at least one other person thought what I said could be valuable to you.

As for how my questions were worded, I think this is a situation where the words written on a message board sounds different and comes across a certain way, when the person who wrote it (me) didn't mean it to sound the way you took it. Picture those questions read to you as if a grandmother was reading a bedtime story to a toddler. That was the tone I wrote them in. In my head I was saying, "Do you honestly believe..." very gently as if I was speaking to my sister who was crying. Honestly. Sorry I wasn't as clear as I could have been, though I did say I was offering my opinion in a "tough love" sort of way. I don't take back any of it, though, and they weren't rhetorical questions AT ALL. I was genuinely asking those questions FOR REAL.

It does no good to get defensive, when you come to a forum and ask how to handle things you've mangled. People are gonna tell you straight. You make a mess, you gotta clean it up. I'm not on a high horse, I'm someone who has mangled some shit in my life miserably, and I know about esteem issues and fucking around. I am not judging, just telling you what I see, from what you wrote. I never said anything about your wanting to be found attractive, that I understand. There are lots of other things you wrote about which indicate self-esteem is an issue. And I never told you you should split up, but I did say that considering being apart could be part of your work on your marriage: "You two probably need to work on your marriage, get into therapy, and maybe even consider not being together, before you try to wave the flag of being polyamorous as a reason for having multiple lovers." Read what was written. I never suggested breaking up permanently - how could I tell someone they should do that?! That's ridiculoous. Considering something is different from doing it. You interpreted almost everything I wrote incorrectly.

Now we have a bigger picture about you and your hubs, and it's very obvious the two of you both have lots of work to do (though it was already obvious before), but everyone's been saying all along neither of you are in a place to "go poly." Especially if you're both so hurtful, mean, disrespectful, and vindictive to each other. What are you teaching your child by relating to each other the ways that you do? I wonder why you don't think therapy is needed. It would be a lot more productive in a professional's office than duking it out here where no one really knows you and we only get slivers of info at a time.
 
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it's very obvious the two of you both have lots of work to do (though it was already obvious before), but everyone's been saying all along neither of you are in a place to "go poly." Especially if you're both so hurtful, mean, disrespectful, and vindictive to each other. What are you teaching your child by relating to each other the ways that you do? I wonder why you don't think therapy is needed. It would be a lot more productive in a professional's office than duking it out here where no one really knows you and we only get slivers of info at a time.

So you really cannot stop doing that, can you? I wrote exactly what we are teaching our child. Just keep talking about her, and what we're ready for or not ready for, and how awful we are, and our broken marriage, since you know so much. Seriously, whatever floats your boat. Can I give you our home address so you can call CPS?

It SUCKS to be on the receiving end of your unrelenting condescension. I truly regret trying to join this community and would delete everything if I could.
 
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So you really cannot stop doing that, can you? I wrote exactly what we are teaching our child. Just keep talking about her, and what we're ready for or not ready for, and how awful we are, and our broken marriage, since you know so much. Seriously, whatever floats your boat. Can I give you our home address so you can call CPS?

You are not awful. You are in pain. You are reading stuff into what I wrote that isn't there. No attacks coming from me, nor condescension, really -- just direct communication. If only you knew the struggles I have gone through with my self-esteem, you would know I am not being condescending toward you. But I'll stop posting since you're taking everything I write in the wrong way. Sorry about that! I wish you all the best in your journeys and hope everything all works out for you both to be happy, healed, and satisfied, whatever you decide to do.
 
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I didn't mean to derail the thread. I can see what you meant about debate. People are ready to jump on just about anything that smells even remotely like one. (Y'all should be ashamed! Yeah, you know who you are...)

Either way... I deleted anything that was inflamatory, trying to clean up the thread. Probably too late, but there you have it, I'm trying my best.

My initial introduction was just meant to warn people that I might lash out. My problem with polyamory is not a problem with polyamory per se, but a problem with my wife using it as an excuse for her lack of control over the past few years (6 to be exact, but who's counting, it's not a contest). I really think she's mistaken if she thinks you "are" poly the same way you "are" gay (In fact I resent the idea that there's anything magical about this "ability" she has to "love" more than one person (more on that later)). I think she's a hypocrit for trying to use this bullshit to justify her lack of control and willingness to give up on the commitment we made simply because she wanted to go fuck other people (and did).

It is not a "special, magical ability to love more than one person" that made her cheat and lie, all the while refusing me the same freedom (of having extra marital encounters/relationships). It is her immature need for external validation, and seemingly uncontrollable craving for NRE. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's what makes someone "polyamorous".

So yes, there's anger, resentment, extreme intolerance for bullshit, accompanied by hope that she can REALLY be honest instead of insulting me by pussyfooting around the truth. I've never been very tolerant of BS to start with, but the woman has a much higher than average IQ, she knows better. It is insulting to me that she thinks she's going to pull one over on me by using half baked cop-out arguments to justify her past shortcomings, or to try to get what she wants in the future.

I think we're ready, and about to make progress, but I can see how that conversation is going to be really laborious, and tinged with more empty arguments. I'm ready for it though.
I'm using a quote from conchordian to jump into this thread, but I have points to make to each. I would like you both to know that I'm not a know-it-all arsehole: I'm a trying-to-figure-it-all-out arsehole:rolleyes::p. I want to throw into the ring some considerations that many of us are struggling with.

@ conchordian 1st, thanks for joining in! I think it's brave of you - someone who's going through so much pain and the (imagined or not) victim of deception and hypocrisy - not to shut your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears while chanting "I can't hear you!"

2nd, as a big fan of sarcasm who often finds that sarcasm misunderstood - especially on-line, where I can't use body language - I heartily back up someone's earlier advice to use the sarcasm smiley at the right of the page when you're typing a post. It's a shame when a friendly (even timid) attempt to make a joke and break the ice with strangers is understood as a personal attack and things escalate. And they have on this thread.

3rd, Love Hurts - or rather we often hurt ourselves when trying to deal with the complexities of love.

4th - and this is presumptuous of me, since you know her much better and I've just read this thread - but I dont get the impression that sohuman's "a hypocrit for trying to use this bullshit to justify her lack of control and willingness to give up on the commitment we made". It seems to me that she's willing to admit that she cheated / was a hypocrite in the past, but has come out to you precisely because she wanted to stop cheating. You talk about the last 6 years +/-. People grow. Give her credit for wanting to be honest with you now... and wanting to have an honest relationship. Keep the "hope that she can REALLY be honest instead of insulting me by pussyfooting around the truth", and give her the benefit of the doubt: that she's trying!

5th, you love her the way she is. Admit that. You might not agree with or love ALL her aspects, but the whole crazy pile is someone that you love. I once wrote a poem (dedicated to my then-girlfriend - who fell in love with me, but then immediately wanted to change me) with the opening lines (and this is the genesis of my user name): "If you're looking for Mr. Perfect / What the hell are you doing with me???"

6th, it's been at least 20 - maybe 30 - years since I read this book, so I'm bound to misquote it, but it left a deep impression on me, and the gist is:
A husband thanks a psychiatrist for curing his wife of her depressions. [I think that the present-day diagnosis would be bipolar: very high highs, very low lows.] The psychiatrist - also a long-term family friend - responds:
"Your wife was like a pool of water connected by an underground tunnel to the ocean. The mighty ocean's ebbs and tides affected her. What I have done is to block that tunnel, so now she is a shallow pool, calm but shallow.
"Some success story! Some cure!"
from "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater" by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.​
Would you like to "cure" your wife of her polyamory?

@ sohuman: PLEASE don't lash out at people who are trying to help! I suppose that I've been polyamorous for decades... but I only heard the term for the 1st time a few weeks ago. I have been treated like a strange fish by many people, and I find this site so refreshing.

The term "polytamory" is fairly young, and - though there are certain groundrules (which I think that you would have no problem subscribing to... such as "cheating is NOT polyamory") - it hasn't been homogenised. (And I hope that it never will be! "For variety's the very spice of polyamory" [or something like that].) "Senior members" and moderators might have more experience, but they're not dictators - and I haven't (yet) come across one on here who wanted to be.

We're on here for debate, for mutual support (in a society that's largely hostile to the concept), for interchange of opinions and life-stories.

Please don't give up on us just because someone gives you advice you don't agree with and have no intention of following. If we preceded all our comments with "now this is just my personal opinion, and I hope that you won't take it the wrong way..." each post would be much longer.

@ both of you, as my grandfather used to say: "Well, get you a chair!" (Welcome!)
 
@ sohuman: PLEASE don't lash out at people who are trying to help! I suppose that I've been polyamorous for decades... but I only heard the term for the 1st time a few weeks ago. I have been treated like a strange fish by many people, and I find this site so refreshing.

The term "polytamory" is fairly young, and - though there are certain groundrules (which I think that you would have no problem subscribing to... such as "cheating is NOT polyamory") - it hasn't been homogenised. (And I hope that it never will be! "For variety's the very spice of polyamory" [or something like that].) "Senior members" and moderators might have more experience, but they're not dictators - and I haven't (yet) come across one on here who wanted to be.

We're on here for debate, for mutual support (in a society that's largely hostile to the concept), for interchange of opinions and life-stories.

Please don't give up on us just because someone gives you advice you don't agree with and have no intention of following. If we preceded all our comments with "now this is just my personal opinion, and I hope that you won't take it the wrong way..." each post would be much longer.

@ both of you, as my grandfather used to say: "Well, get you a chair!" (Welcome!)

Thank you for your message. I like the quotes too. This goes to show that it is entirely possible to welcome someone without judging and lecturing them. I'm sorry, but right after I had just found the courage to open up, she told me she knew better than me, and then called us hurtful, mean, disrespectful, and vindictive, and bad role models for our child. Not fucking cool. Don't care if you're "just trying to help", it would have been far more helpful to SHARE whatever of her stories of self-esteem she thought were relevant than to lecture me. And I didn't appreciate Catfish copying and pasting that lecture as if I couldn't read or something.

I shared a bunch more and was met with even more judgment and condescension by NYCIndie.

I then deleted what more I had shared and had every intention of leaving the forum (I can choose to be part of the community here or not based on who's in it and how they treat me), but maybe I should just put her on ignore since you have most been top drawer.

It's not that I don't appreciate advice or don't have any intention of following it, it's how it's phrased. If I stay here, I plan to share my stories with people rather than tell them what I think of them.

I can tell you upfront that I am intelligent, not because I think I know better than other people, but because of my capacity to think things through and to understand them based on logic, for example, I have been reading about poly for only a short time but here is a reflection:

I would actually not endorse the statement that cheating is not polyamory. I contend that polyamory is the rejection of the belief that sexual and/or romantic exclusivity is either necessary or sufficient for all healthy romantic relationships. I contend also that this view (in this case the rejection of a belief) dictates neither a specific relationship structure nor specific behaviors. I'd contend that the wikipedia page needs to be changed even.

Like it or not, there are going to be people who hold the same view but act either ethically or unethically, and there are going to be people who act ethically or unethically, or both, in all relationship structures. This is because the view (rejection of that specific belief) does not dictate whether people are in monogamous or non-monogamous relationships, whether or how they hurt each other, whether or how they handle any hurt that they cause each other, or whether and how they go forward together. A logical parallel to "cheating is not poly" would be "atheists don't kill people". And atheism is a good parallel because it too is not a belief, but rather a view based on rejection of a belief. Being a Humanist and atheist in my views, of course it bugs me that Stalin was also an atheist, but I have to accept the fact that he, like me, rejected the idea that God exists and that for whatever reason related to that or his other views, acted unethically (hmm, maybe he wasn't a Humanist). To witness what happened and then make conclusions based on erroneous logic, like:

- "Atheism is immoral as evidenced by these atrocities", or similarly wrong:
- "People who kill must not be true atheists, because I am a true atheist and I don't kill"

...well, judgments about others' morality that are based on faulty logic, just like judgments based on partial information, are problematic. Because of the prevalence of faulty logic and/or incomplete information, expressing opinions of each other's morality is in itself often problematic (just my belief). If I stayed, I would not pass judgment on or lecture any of you, because I assume I have only partial information and I know how hard it is to share personal stuff like this.

The way-too-long-story-short of what I deleted is that I am not using poly to justify cheating, and Conchordian's belief that I was doing that was based on an innocent communication faux pas that will be corrected in the future (us idiotically trying to have long important conversations after I've taken my sleeping pill for the night!).

I'll need some time away in either case because this is time-consuming and not necessarily good for me meeting my life goals right now.
 
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