Proposed Bill of Rights for Established/Primary Partnerships

Yessss!

I have to admit that these exact thoughts were what prompted me to write this. I read 'The Secondary Bill of Rights' and was shocked that not only did people seem to be taking the document seriously, they were requoting it, bringing it to discussion groups, etc, and worse, that couple-shaming was starting to emerge with it as a reference. I thought, "Where's the "other side" if we're going to be saying, I'm on THIS side of the fence, and you're on THAT side of the fence."

What was curious to me is that people had no problems standing up for the 'rights' of a secondary partner despite their mistakes and limitations as people, but members of partnership who were making mistakes/coming up against limitations seemed to be quickly shamed, judged, name called, and even bullied on this forum, and in other forums and discussion groups that I participate in. I wrote about what I saw coupled people being shamed for, judged about, and treated badly over. To me, humans are humans no matter what relationship structure they come with, and while some of the mistakes they make may fall into patterns, I felt like basic 'rights' were being overlooked for coupled people struggling just as much as for 'single-ish' or 'secondary partners' finding their way. It is another side of the same coin of 'doing poly ethically' and 'not being an asshole'. The one-sided approach that I have been watching emerge reeks of bullshit to me, and I wanted to address that; people have the allowance to ask for what they need, be safe, enjoy honesty and full disclosure, be respected, and take care of themselves, and their lives/other relationships within the context of a new relationship, regardless of their relationship structure, no?

I mean, who doesn't have the 'right' to slow the pacing of a relationship down if it's moving too fast or is pushing a life out of balance? What's with the double standards for singled/coupled poly people - it being fine for a single person to take a step back if they want to work on other relationships, or their personal relationship with self - but being up for judgement if a couple steps back to work on their relationship, or their personal relationship with self?

My thought is that there should be some sort of general constitution/guide/whatever you'd like to call it around what forms having an ethical poly relationship, no matter WHAT side you're coming to it from. Part of having that pendulum swing to the middle is to present the another POV, and see what discussions and writings come out of it.

I think the word right is (mostly) inappropriate as well, and introduced it as a direct reply to the 'Secondary Bill of RIGHTS'. It's (largely) alienating, assumptive and presumes ownership over decisions that involve another person.

I'd LOVE to see a similar document crafted that is just about doing poly ethically, and a good foundation for discussion between people doing poly, especially those new to it. As we build our own experience, things like this seem largely unnecessary, but in the beginning, it would be helpful.

Yesss!
 
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I don't think the secondary BoR was intended as a comprehensive guide to ethical nonmonogamy.

Oh wait. I just realized that that essay DOES come from xeromag's site. I thought it was written on here and referenced by the other site.

Yeah, franklin uses provocative language for sure. I would take what you can use and disregard the rest. I really wish that people would not let him do their thinking for them. It isn't so much that i disagree with his writing, it's that i find it gross how others propagate it as a meme and it becomes part of "poly popular culture" that way.

Do not ever believe that just because it's on xeromag or morethantwo, that it must be "true".
 
I'd LOVE to see a similar document crafted that is just about doing poly ethically
That's the thing. I think every polyship could just co-create that for themselves based on the wants/needs/limits of the people in that polyship. What their personal ethics standard is for THEM.

There is no universal form because there's as many ways to "do poly" as there are "poly people." People value different things.

I know what I want for my own polyship standard. My short list is my short list. *shrug*

I see you trying to draft something for yourself so... go for it. Just as all people could go for it.

As to the "breaking up" thing... and how to word it?

"I have the right to be broken up with the way I prefer. Ie : ______(whatever form that is for you) ______. "


Don't get too hung on what to call your paper:

  • rules
  • agreements
  • charter
  • guidelines
  • expectations
  • personal standard
  • talking points list
  • promises
  • something else?

Whatever it is you call it? Just hand it over to the people you want to share it with and... talk. Talk it out, see what falls into place, what doesn't and if you want to share being together or not with a tool you co-created. A talking tool that hopefully helps you be and stay in right relationship to each other and minimizes dings and helps you resolve conflicts.

Or at the very least, an initial talking tool that helps you get to know each other better and discern if you are compatible or not to begin with.

Galagirl
 
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That's the thing. I think every polyship could just co-create that for themselves based on the wants/needs/limits of the people in that polyship. What their personal ethics standard is for THEM.

There is no universal form because there's as many ways to "do poly" as there are poly people." People value different things.

Great idea GG! I think it is important for people to create together based upon the needs of ALL the people involved, rather than to impose from on high.

Natja
 
That's the thing. I think every polyship could just co-create that for themselves based on the wants/needs/limits of the people in that polyship. What their personal ethics standard is for THEM.

There is no universal form because there's as many ways to "do poly" as there are poly people." People value different things.

I know what I want for my own polyship standard. My short list is my short list. *shrug*

I see you trying to draft something for yourself so... go for it. Just as all people could go for it.

As to the "breaking up" thing... and how to word it?

"I have the right to be broken up with the way I prefer. Ie : ______(whatever form that is for you) ______. "

Fair point. But let me ask: Is there any sort of general guiding principle behind all this, a standard of conduct that applies no matter what form the relationship takes?

Do you think that, in general, people who are entering in to a relationship with one another ought to treat one another as free and equal in working out the terms of their relationship? Should they avoid harming the other person or exposing them to risks to which they do not consent? Should people aim to be honest and worthy of trust?

Those are the kinds if ethical principles or reasonable expectations I have in mind. As I've stated them here, they're really really general - they may apply to all people in just about any situation. There may be ways of making them more specific to the kinds of relationships we generally talk about on this forum without - and this is the main thing - micromanaging or dictating the precise form of a relationship.

Or am I coming at this thread all sideways? I really should start a new thread of my own!
 
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Not just for me.

That's the thing with this list though - it's not just for me. It holds advice, experiences and struggles that I've seen over and over again in poly couples opening up, and the emerging pop-poly-culture of couple-prejudice (in part because of Franklin's article).

I'm thinking of a basic how to list. Covering the basics so that there is some kind of concise list of discussion topics for people entering into poly. If people don't, say, have a conversation about how to be good stewards of NRE, it can get away from them rather swiftly. Having conscious and condensed tools that don't come in the form of a large book (of which there are now several, more being written, I'm sure) can be pretty dang helpful.

I got the idea too from the selection of 'rules' that my sister and her partner shared with me that I turned into a concise list - it was condensed knowledge on how to maintain an established/primary partnership while opening up to emotionally connected/sexual relationships with other people. It wasn't a Bible, it was a list of guidelines and resulted in some super provoking conversations, several private messages thanking me for posting it, and discussions in my own life that were super beneficial. Lists of established boundaries/rights/whatever you want to call them can be a really great springboard for finding your own way, based on a tried, tested and true framework from more experienced members of the 'poly' community.

It's like if someone wrote a list, "Helpful Guidelines for Unicorn Hunters" it could condense huge swathes of experience and knowledge and boil it down into the most frequently tripped over issues in newly forming triads.

Don't know if I'm making any sense.....
 
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On High, Nuh Uh.

Great idea GG! I think it is important for people to create together based upon the needs of ALL the people involved, rather than to impose from on high.

It's not meant to be on high, it's meant to be a framework for discussion and meaningful dialogue around some of the common pitfalls/area of struggle in poly.
 
Is there a "Polyamory/nonmonogamy for Dummies" book yet? There are books like that about almost every topic one can imagine it seems. One section of the book is always, no matter what is the topic, called "The Part of Tens" and it contains lists about various aspects of the topic with ten things on each list. If you are unfamiliar with the format followed by "For Dummies", pick up any book like that at the library or look for one on Amazon with a thing that says "Look Inside" on it, and that lets you view the table of contents.

I just think that if you have to go to all this trouble to teach someone basic manners and decency, maybe you're better off being just friends or better off without them altogether. My best relationships (two of which i am in right now) have always been ones where we hardly ever discuss the relationship because we're having a good time HAVING them.
 
Hey BP I'm going to take your bill to my fb group for discussion. I will link it back to here. Primary/secondary discussion has been a topic of debate lately and is a good addition. Hence the thread I started on it here. Thanks for this!
 
I just think that if you have to go to all this trouble to teach someone basic manners and decency, maybe you're better off being just friends or better off without them altogether. My best relationships (two of which i am in right now) have always been ones where we hardly ever discuss the relationship because we're having a good time HAVING them.

I'm inclined to agree that this "charter" or "code" or whatever need not be a sign-on-the-dotted-line sort of contract, spelled out in detail with each potential partner.

But I would like to make one point about manners and decency. When I teach ethics, I'm assuming my students are already decent human beings, or interested in becoming decent human beings, in some general sense.

The difficulty is that it isn't always so easy to see, in particular contexts, what decency requires, and it isn't always so easy to actually do what ought to be done. That may take some training and some practice; a little bit of ethical theory (not too much!) can help, too, at least in organizing and connecting various values and expectations.

Doctors in training need to think ahead to moments in which they may be torn between two different obligations, and they'd better have their heads straight about the values and reasonable expectations involved, and have developed some basic skills for sorting them out.

I think much the same applies to poly relationships. Because what we're doing is unconventional, there are no conventions (get it?) as to how to behave in certain circumstances. We have to learn to think, clearly and in some detail, about what decency requires in really novel circumstances.

I'm interested in this charter or code or whatever mostly for informing my own awareness and judgment, so I can be more clear-eyed and clear-headed in my various relationships, and more likely to be successful in behaving like the decent human being I aspire to be.

If I do that work up front, it then becomes much easier to navigate relationships - and enjoy them, and celebrate them - because I don't have to spend a lot of time thinking about or agonizing over basic ethical ideas, unless some new kind of problem comes along . . . but, then, it's also easier to work through new problems pretty quickly. In other words, if I do the work up front, I don't have to spend a lot of time in my relationships fussing over what decency requires; I can just be a decent guy.

I could introduce an analogy to music here - practicing arpeggios so I can improvise freely when playing music with others, for example - but that would belabor the point . . . even further.
 
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I don't disagree with that; i probably should have used the first-person pronoun instead:

If i have to teach someone all those things, i'm probably better off without them. If i wanted to do that for someone, i would have had a kid.
 
The shape or configuration of the polyship doesn't matter to me. I think it is worthwhile to know oneself and one's partners well in those areas -- each others values, ethics, way of going -- and co-create the expected personal standard for holding each other accountable so they can remain in right relationship inside the polyship.

It is not just about "basic manners and decency" to me. I get that with a grocery clerk. It is that I expect MORE from close friends and lovers -- I want them not just to "basic polite" me, but "platinum rule" me and treat me the way I want to be treated when we face difficult conversation or major life choices. I want to do well by them too and know how to platinum rule them. I can't know that without talking about it. We teach others how we want to be treated.

I don't have those kinds of intense Life moments with the grocery clerk. I do have those intense Life moments with close friends and lovers. I like having the guiding personal standard to help navigate in times of discernment so everyone is up to par and getting what they need in the way they need it.

Most recent example? My abused friend was living here temporarily. I did not know if her crazy ex was going to show up at my house and act out, or hurt someone or what. He could show up with a gun. Who knew? I didn't have to lay it on the line for her. I didn't have to put myself in the line of fire for crazy. If she chose to accept my aid, she had to play ball. Dude is/was scary. I was willing to shelter her, but she had to agree to my personal standard sheet I gave her or seek aid elsewhere.

We had to talk about a lot of intense personal things -- money, sex, relationships, property, divorce, abuse she endured. So I could help her locate the local resources/lawyers/aid she needed to extricate herself. We could not NOT talk about uncomfortable things. It had to be done. It was draining for all of us, but with that shared standard we were both able to be comfortably uncomfortable telling each other hard shit without it getting cruel or brutal or damaging.

Traversing the interdependent overlapping area of discernment together in our relationship so

a) we could discern what to do to get to goal (keep us all safe while establishing her in her new life and get the ex off her back)

b) we could still be friends through it and after it

It was a delicate balance.

I'm interested in this charter or code or whatever mostly for informing my own awareness and judgment, so I can be more clear-eyed and clear-headed in my various relationships, and more likely to be successful in behaving like the decent human being I aspire to be.

If I do that work up front, it then becomes much easier to navigate relationships - and enjoy them, and celebrate them - because I don't have to spend a lot of time thinking about or agonizing over basic ethical ideas, unless some new kind of problem comes along . . . but, then, it's also easier to work through new problems pretty quickly. In other words, if I do the work up front, I don't have to spend a lot of time in my relationships fussing over what decency requires; I can just be a decent guy.

That's pretty much where I come from. It is easy to get along and be ethical when it's sunny days. Don't really need a guiding map when the problem is "What's for dinner?"

It's harder when it comes down to the wire and one has to make tough calls through the emotional curtain that can cloud good judgement. I find it easier to discern in stormy weather if everyone operates from the same standard built from shared values/ethics.

I (or anyone I have on that standard) can just pull it out and circle the things. "THIS is how we agreed to be together. THIS is what I am not getting/need more of right now that I want to get. Let us discern what can be done here so all can arrive at goal."

I do whip that out for guidance when the fit hits the shan or things get tense/dicey in my relationships. I want to be sure I'm treating them how they wanted to be treated. I want to be treated how I want to be treated.

Platinum rule
, not golden rule.

Galagirl
 
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If i have to teach someone all those things, i'm probably better off without them. If i wanted to do that for someone, i would have had a kid.

I agree. I just cannot imagine getting into a relationship and discussing a bill of rights, or signing agreements on a dotted line. But all my relationships are one-on-one, so maybe that's why I don't see a need for all this. Sometimes I think polyfolk overthink things, but I guess it depends on configuration and what people want out of it. I would not likely see myself getting involved with a man who is part of a couple that is very... couple-centric. You know, the Holy Dyad - not for me. I just wonder how I'd react if a poly guy I wanted to date presented a thing like this to me.
 
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There's another concept that might fit well for a lot of people -- that of the "Read Me". Most software comes with a "Read Me" text file that explains what you're dealing with and how to use it. Similar to an instruction manual that might come with an appliance. The idea of doing a "Read Me" for yourself is to explain to potential lovers/partners what they're getting into when they get involved with you. Your needs, triggers, hard and soft limits, other relational boundaries and communication patterns, likes/dislikes, etc. I haven't done one myself yet, but I've read those of a few other people, and I love the concept.

The Secondary's Bill of Rights was created, as far as I can tell, to draw attention to the way that people in secondary-type relationships with people who have another, primary-type relationship, often seem to be treated as disposable or less-than. You could call it a tool to remind all involved that a person needs to be treated like they're of value, even if they're not a life-partner... which SHOULD be obvious, but which doesn't seem to be, based on a lot of stories you read on boards like these.

I'm not sure whether the same problem exists in reverse... whether people in primary relationships get treated as less-than by the people with whom they're in secondary relationships on a regular basis. There's a power differential there, y'know? But then, I have an unavoidably biased perspective, being a practitioner of solo-poly myself. Still, what I'm saying is that a Secondary's Bill of Rights as a way to draw attention to a set of problematic patterns in poly makes sense to me. I'm not so sure that a Primary's Bill of Rights does. A "Read Me", on the other hand, is probably a good idea for most people.
 
I agree. I just cannot imagine getting into a relationship and discussing a bill of rights, or signing agreements on a dotted line. But all my relationships are one-on-one.



Well, i can see doing all that but i call it GETTING MARRIED! Durrr...

It doesn't even have to be a legal or "dyad" marriage, but hello? That's what people have been doing: "i found jesus" yes, jesus was sitting right there the whole time, now you found him, congratulations. :rolleyes:
 
The Secondary's Bill of Rights was created, as far as I can tell, to draw attention to the way that people in secondary-type relationships with people who have another, primary-type relationship, often seem to be treated as disposable or less-than. You could call it a tool to remind all involved that a person needs to be treated like they're of value, even if they're not a life-partner... which SHOULD be obvious, but which doesn't seem to be, based on a lot of stories you read on boards like these.

I'm not sure whether the same problem exists in reverse... whether people in primary relationships get treated as less-than by the people with whom they're in secondary relationships on a regular basis. There's a power differential there, y'know? But then, I have an unavoidably biased perspective, being a practitioner of solo-poly myself. Still, what I'm saying is that a Secondary's Bill of Rights as a way to draw attention to a set of problematic patterns in poly makes sense to me. I'm not so sure that a Primary's Bill of Rights does. A "Read Me", on the other hand, is probably a good idea for most people.

Well said, it is less a 'Bill of Rights' than just an awareness campaign. I really don't understand people who refuse to address their own privilege.

Natja
 
A Bill of Rights too late!

Thank you for positing a Bill of Rights so well. I really wish I had this before a triad my wife and I were in.....There was much drama in the anarchy of our multiple loves. As I am about to enter a dyad (maybe, I'll know more in a few days) this type of clear and concise writing really helps me sharpen my thoughts. My wife and I have used the term consideration for a number of years to describe the regard and respect that we try to show each other when we embark on poly adventures. It has served us well but thsi Bill of Rights does us one better. Consider it stolen.
 
Thank you for positing a Bill of Rights so well. I really wish I had this before a triad my wife and I were in.....There was much drama in the anarchy of our multiple loves. As I am about to enter a dyad (maybe, I'll know more in a few days) this type of clear and concise writing really helps me sharpen my thoughts. My wife and I have used the term consideration for a number of years to describe the regard and respect that we try to show each other when we embark on poly adventures. It has served us well but thsi Bill of Rights does us one better. Consider it stolen.



It's great that this is useful to someone.
 
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