Privacy after violation of trust?

doglover0217

New member
Short context:
I'm in a V with Red and Blue. Red is the hinge, and I have been essentially monogamous to him. It has been almost 2 years since my last individual sexual experience, but Red and I often have sexual experiences with a third person or at events.

The story:
Recently Red met someone and we were all out together, but I encouraged them to go back to our apartment to have some alone time. I stayed out with a couple of friends at a bar nearby. I intended to go back after a couple of hours. Time got away from me, I hadn't heard anything from Red about coming home so I assumed they were still busy (but I didn't text to confirm).

I ended up making out with someone while I was out. Our relationship relies a lot of informing a partner of what we're doing and making sure they're comfortable with that. I didn't let Red know what I was doing, and it took me two days to tell him what happened. In other words, I hid that I made out with someone else (that's all we did -- I kind of ran away after it happened). He asked me repeatedly over the next few days if anything happened that he should know about, and I lied and said no until late last night when he said "this is your last chance to tell me if anything else happened).

It sounds like he knew already, but I don't know how he would.

The issue I'm having is that the I have tried to draw a privacy boundary around my private communications. For a large part of our relationship, we've had a very open sort of policy regarding phones. Since everything is connected to Apple ID, all of our messages are connected to several devices. I recently disabled my messages on our shared laptop and my iPad (also mostly shared, but I rarely use it). I didn't tell him I was disabling it, but he interpreted it as me acting shady to try to hide something. My reason was to reinforce the privacy boundary I'm trying to create.

Additionally, I changed my passcode on my phone of the same reason.

We have had three incidences where he has gone through my phone. Twice when he suspected I was doing something shady. Both times he found evidence of me talking to my best friend about issues within my relationship that I was not up front with him about, which he felt was a violation of my commitment to communicate better. The third time he got upset at me and read my messages while I was asleep. He had no suspicions, but was upset about an argument earlier that night.

After the incident where I made out with someone then hid it, he required me to change my passcode back as a sort of collateral of trust. He said that if I give that to him and trust that he won't go through my private communications, then he will trust me in return.

I understand that what I did was not OK and that I should not have hid it from him, but I'm struggling to reconcile the rest.

Does anyone have any insight on to handle issues like this? Is it OK that he has access to my phone code after what I did?
 
I am sorry you struggle.

He has made a request -- that you give him access to your pass code again so he can feel reassured you aren't doing shady things.

You can say yes, suggest a limited yes, or just plain no.

I would say "No. I am not willing to give you my pass codes. I would like to maintain a better sense of self as an individual. How else can I help reassure you that I'm not doing shady things? So we BOTH get what we want? I get to feel I'm enough of my own person with my own things, and you get to feel reassured enough that nothing hinky is going on? Are you willing to ask me things directly and ask for reassurance directly? Rather than doing sneak peeks? Do you prefer to try something else?"

That would be my first choice. I don't like enmeshment or someone snooping in my things.

You were being generous in giving him time at the apartment with his person. He could be generous and not make this making out thing bigger than it needs to be. How does generosity play in your relationship?

We have had three incidences where he has gone through my phone. Twice when he suspected I was doing something shady. Both times he found evidence of me talking to my best friend about issues within my relationship that I was not up front with him about, which he felt was a violation of my commitment to communicate better. The third time he got upset at me and read my messages while I was asleep. He had no suspicions, but was upset about an argument earlier that night.

When he does this phone peeking behavior, he is not communicating with you directly. How is this behavior him holding up HIS end of the stick for "communicating better" with you?

If phone peeking has been his crutch or woobie? You removing his access to it may require him to learn better communication skills himself. To ask directly for what he needs up front. Is that the root problem? He doesn't want to learn new skills? :confused:

After the incident where I made out with someone then hid it, he required me to change my passcode back as a sort of collateral of trust. He said that if I give that to him and trust that he won't go through my private communications, then he will trust me in return.

He has made a trust offer. I supposed you could counter offer with a limited yes. Give him access for a week/month. Then take it back again and change the code. I don't esp like this "tit for tat" on trust rebuild or get what it does for him. But if that cuts to the chase, then you might consider it in the name of expediency. But before you offer a "limited yes" option... think it out well.

1) Cuz if in the end he's not going through your private communication... what difference does it make to have the code or not? He's not using it. Cuz he's not going through your phone. What is this collateral really about? Trust? Or control over you? Enabling him to peek?

2) If he's not going to trust you in the end? Nothing you do will be enough. So no point in having a LONG time frame on the limited yes. What time frame is reasonable enough to you IF you take this path? YOU pick the time you feel ok with.

If he doesn't accept the counter offer, just say plain NO then. And hold firm. Because you are trying to have a personal boundary of "My communications are private. People don't snoop in them." When someone DOES snoop in them, what is the consequence YOU can do? You change the code. You make yourself un-dingable from that avenue. People don't have to respect or like your personal boundary. YOU do.

You having personal things and some personal privacy is not doing anything evil TO him. It's on him to come up with another solution at that point. You do not have to subsume yourself in your relationships.

For a large part of our relationship, we've had a very open sort of policy regarding phones. Since everything is connected to Apple ID, all of our messages are connected to several devices.

For me? That's too much enmeshment. Over here, we do not get into each other's devices without asking first. And even then... the person might still say "No." And we accept that. I might have a broken iPad and want to use his to do whatever work I'm doing -- but it does not belong to me. He can still say no. And I would have to solve my problems another way. His things belong to him.

After many decades together, my spouse still will not go into my purse even if I say it is ok. Like he wants the joint checkbook for something and I tell him it it in my purse and just to get it? He will bring me the purse for me to get it and hand to him. Because the checkbook might be shared, but the purse belongs to me.

My car is the better "kid car" so if he's doing kid taxi he asks if I mind if he borrows my car. He doesn't just take it. I appreciate these small gestures of respect and these small gestures of recognizing I am a person on my own too -- with my own stuff, my own preferences, etc.

If this former agreement is starting to pinch? You could have said so straight up. "This agreement about all devices being open access? I no long want to do it. I plan to assert more personal privacy. I'm not doing it to be mean to you or anything. I just need to have better personal boundaries so I can maintain a healthy sense of self."

I wonder why you didn't. Does he wig out over any little thing when you do? So you don't feel safe in disclosing things? Could that be the root problem? :confused:

My parents are way enmeshed. There is no Mom, no Dad. They are "Mom&Dad" the unit, the couple, sealed for life. You talk to one of them, it's everything "we" and you cannot tell where the individual people lie. They are unable to see that some of their biggest fights stem from one or the other wanting to do individual things on their own and the other one wigging out.

Both times he found evidence of me talking to my best friend about issues within my relationship that I was not up front with him about, which he felt was a violation of my commitment to communicate better.

My spouse used to get upset by that. If I talked to a friend first to get my thoughts in better order before approaching him. I pointed out it was PART of communicating better with him.

We cannot live in a bubble. We saw the results of our communication when we left it between just us. It would go around in circles. We had to do something DIFFERENT. I was trying.

Sometimes an outside POV is what is needed -- from someone who is NOT emotionally tied up in the thing. I wasn't running around blabbing private things or being mean or talking bad about him or anything. I needed help with MY stuff -- how to organize my bullet points, better say what I had to say, etc. Because in the past coming at him "raw" compounded whatever it was.

We talked about what "outside people" he felt ok with. Internet boards like this one, a counselor, a handful of our closer friends. We took an NVC class together which helped.

Eventually he was able to relax and one day he surprised me by apologizing because he was making HIS issues (discomfort with talking about personal things) be my issue and a couple issue when it did not have to be.


Our relationship relies a lot of informing a partner of what we're doing and making sure they're comfortable with that.

Ok. WHEN? And HOW? If your current "play by play" method no longer works because you find it stifling or a drag to maintain? Maybe that agreement and method needs to be revisited and remade in a way you CAN keep.

I would find it a drag. I don't want to be checking in every second. And I don't want to hear HIM checking in. I only want to be told when something is "news worthy." Some kissing, hugging, making out -- I just don't care to know because those things are not a big deal to me.

If it's looking to go lover? Ok, give me a heads up, use protection, enjoy. But I don't want to be bothered with itty bitties.

To me? You doing some smooching one night? I wouldn't care to know. It's not news worthy to me unless this guy is going to be a regular feature of your life, and then by extension, mine.

I rather define the swimming pool -- and color it all green for "Go." Do all those things freely, don't bother to tell me. Because in making our "swimming pool agreement" you already told me. And I already know. All these green things could happen, and I don't need to be knowing about each little one.

http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf could get you started. Then you can print and color. Tweak things at will.

Green is go.

Yellow things -- Proceed with caution. Check in first. Probably fine, but heads up appreciated.

Red things are stop. Needs negotiation or serious talk first. (I would be pretty mad if my spouse decided to make babies with someone else without telling me ahead of time. )

Perhaps making your "swimming pool" agreements so you hopefully can feel "free enough" with enough "personal privacy" while he can feel "secure enough" and "informed enough" leads to you guys getting on better.

I don't know if any of that helps.

Galagirl
 
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Is it OK that he has access to my phone code after what I did?
Sure, if you're happy for him to have that access. If you're not, tell him "no" and accept the outcome.

Your boundaries are what you make them, and the consequences are on you, not on anyone else. If you want privacy in your communications with others then that's where you draw your line; you tell yourself "I won't be involved with someone who snoops in my private conversations". If he crosses your line then he's done you the favour of showing you that he's not someone you want to be involved with. Similarly, if you making out with someone has crossed one of his boundaries then it's for him to deal with—which is what he's doing with his request to read what's on your phone. That doesn't mean you are obliged to bow to what he wants; just as he can insist on overstepping your boundaries you can insist on overstepping his. All that means is that you're not well suited.

For me? I won't put up with any sort of controlling crap from a partner, so if he insisted on reading my messages I'd tell him not to let the door hit him on his way out.
 
Comparing me to his other partner Red

Thank you so much for your input so far.

I've communicated to him that while our relationship began with the tit-for-tat communication method, the further I get into it the less I expect that from him. When I first started seeing Red, I was nonmonogomous, so the concept of sharing was difficult for me to grasp. I felt possessive and the need to know everything, but over time I found that I became secure enough in my relationship with him that knowing and dwelling on the constant need to know everything was wasted energy.

I recently have tried to discuss with Red that redefining our communication boundaries might be a good idea. I don't need to know everything. If something is noteworthy, I would like to know, but the small stuff is wasted energy.

The level of communication I expect from him is very different than what he expects of me. He wants constant communication from me and/or lots of details. I'm not the best communicator, and I often communicate less than what he expects -- not because I'm trying to hide anything, but because I don't find the information relevant or important. I'm not sure how to address this difference in expectations, but no matter how hard I try to meet his expectations, I'm coming up short.

Another thing in relation to the making out incident is that his other partner, Blue, has done similar things in the past. Red said to me that whenever Blue has done something, he comes clean right away, and that's how he expects me to communicate. We all live together, but this is an example of comparing me to Red in terms of our abilities to communicate to Blue. I understand why he might want to compare us if Red has a better ability to meet Blue's communication expectations, but the comparison bothers me because Red and I are two very different people.
 
Hi

Maybe it's just his way of communicating that isn't very effective with you? He may just need to change the delivery style... Like instead of " what are you doing".. He can just say..." Hopefully you're having an awesome day".
Considering that everything shared here is one sided... You seem to be ok sharing what he may need .... Just not liking his asking method.
Do tell him, if you haven't, that you don't like the comparison on communication expectations.. We are all different on what style moves us.
 
I'm not sure how to address this difference in expectations, but no matter how hard I try to meet his expectations, I'm coming up short.

Could only offer what you can actually DO. For instance, hinge wants daily communication/constant communication and/or lots of details.

You prefer less. Maybe a monthly check in is good enough to you. As a compromise, you could offer weekly. You might not LOVE weekly check ins, but maybe you could check in weekly and be ok dealing with that because at least it is not daily.

And he deals with weekly even though he wants daily, because at least it isn't as long in between check ins as monthly. Come to a middle place with it. If that is not enough for him? Or a middle place cannot be found? He has to figure out what he wants most.

  • I want this this relationship most. I will let my "daily communication" want go/bend.
  • I want "daily communication"most. I have to let this relationship go. Because I will not get that here. Doglover2017 is not able to offer that.

That assessment is not your burden. It is not your call to make what is or isn't enough for him.

You are not trying to do mean things to him, but nobody can be Superman or Wonder Woman. You can only be you. You can only offer what is actually doable to you. You cannot overextend yourself. Burning yourself out do more than you can actually do is not healthy for you.

I understand why he might want to compare us if Red has a better ability to meet Blue's communication expectations, but the comparison bothers me because Red and I are two very different people.

I'm sorry he compares your style to his other partner's style as means to get you to do what he wants.

When comparisons come up, you could practice healthy detachment and say "That's nice. They are able to do that." And let it go. Don't take it personally. Just because they do it that way doesn't mean YOU have to do that in the same way.

If he's interested in WHY you don't do that, you could try using an illustrative example.

Here is this penguin. Here is this robin. Both are birds.
  • One swims. It does not fly.
  • This other one? That one flies. It does not swim.
  • Limit of the Universe. This is just what these birds can do.

Just like both of you are his partners.

  • And one can do daily communication frequency.
  • And the other cannot. The other prefers to check in at THIS frequency.
  • Limit of the Universe. This is just what these partners can offer.

If he's doing "compare/contrast" as a means to understand his partners better, or appreciate their special talents, that's fine.

If he's trying to turn a penguin in a robin or a robin into a penguin? He's only going to drive himself and the partners crazy.

Additionally, if it is is his habit to "hint" at things and expects "mind reader"-ing, and he doesn't make ACTUAL requests? You could stop "mind reader"-ing and guessing at what he wants. Take the burden off you. Only respond to actual requests.

So if he is comparing you two as his way to "hint" that he wants to you be doing something? Play dumb/like you hear nothing request-y happening even if in the past you used to mind reader and "hear the unspoken." Because nothing request-y IS happening.

If there no actual direct request, don't just leap up to serve on auto pilot. That doesn't help with the shared goal of better communication.

You could ask clarifying questions instead. "Is this just you sharing some thoughts? Are you trying to make a request? I will consider requests made directly."

Let him own more of his fair share of the communication stick. "Communicating better" doesn't mean YOU do all of the work.

Galagirl
 
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this is your last chance to tell me if anything else happened

I didn't tell him I was disabling it, but he interpreted it as me acting shady to try to hide something.

he suspected I was doing something shady

The third time he got upset at me and read my messages while I was asleep.

He said that if I give that to him and trust that he won't go through my private communications, then he will trust me in return.

I'm picking up on a very subtle theme here - He doesn't trust you in the slightest.

This is a very bad sign. I strongly suggest you do some internal investigation and find out what it is you expect from a relationship of this kind. If possible, ask him to do the same. Then lay these expectations out and find out where the overlap is... scrap the rest.

For me? I won't put up with any sort of controlling crap from a partner, so if he insisted on reading my messages I'd tell him not to let the door hit him on his way out.

I wouldn't entertain this even for a moment. In fact, just letting them finish their sentence would be a challenge for me.
 
I think it's too convienent to dismiss him as a controlling ass-hole.

It is clear that he does not trust you. However, you have also made it clear that you are not trustworthy. That may sound harsh, but you lied to him multiple times.

Trust issues tend to have a circular pattern that exaggerates for each revolution. Allowing him access to your private property, thoughts, and communications is NOT a trust building exercise. There will always be a reason to second guess. He is attacking this issue by trying to control it, but he has no control, he just doesn't realize it.

I would approach it like this: You need to be honest with him. He needs to provide you with an environment that safeguards honesty. It's a two way road. I would sit down with him, pen and paper in hand, and reflect on what caused dishonesty, from there you can discuss what you need from him to promote a different outcome.

For example:
you are supposed to let him know before you mess around with someone right?

What caused the dishonesty?
1. You made a slight mistake in arrangements and kissed someone.
2. You were afraid, for whatever reason, about how he would react.

Reflect on what convinced you that lying to him was the easier path.

Come up with ideas with him on how he can help make honesty feel like a safer place for you. Make a plan, and execute it.

Best of luck.
 
Trust issues tend to have a circular pattern that exaggerates for each revolution. Allowing him access to your private property, thoughts, and communications is NOT a trust building exercise. There will always be a reason to second guess. He is attacking this issue by trying to control it, but he has no control, he just doesn't realize it.

True and well stated. I have found that these trust issues arise because of how we have been trained to behave. This training can come from previous relationships (including our childhood relationships) being projected on the current relationship, and the relationship with the trust issue at hand - most likely a combination of both.

A person with a clear history of healthy communication will not only not likely lie about their behavior, but they will also not likely put up with much of this "investigation to prove your trustworthiness" nonsense. So, our OP more than likely has a well established baseline of not being sure if they are safe to express their mistakes, and it's being reinforced by the current distrusting partner.

It's tough to not project past issues with trust onto current loved ones - but it's something most of us need to work on lest we keep creating/allowing situations like the one the OP is describing.
 
Does anyone have any ideas on other ways to build trust? I tried to speak with him last night and he is adamant that having access to my communications is how he is going to build trust in me. I don't understand or see how that is going to address the issue; I asked if we could work together to find an alternative, and he reiterated that this is the consequence for my action.

I understand that he doesn't trust me. I consistently don't meet his expectations of communication. He wants me to err on the side of oversharing whenever I'm talking to someone (whether they are a potential sexual partner or not) and to be engaged in texting communication throughout the day. Writing it down, it doesn't sound that unreasonable, but when I try my hardest I still fall short and it leads to an issue. In regard to oversharing, I try to communicate as much as I can with still maintaining boundaries I've tried to set for privacy -- boundaries driven by a desire to be an individual and have some things for myself, rather than everything in my social life entangled with him. In regard to communicating constantly throughout the day, there are days where I don't want to message at all or am very busy at work, but it's hard for him to not take it personally and think that I'm not engaged because I don't want to talk to him.

Does that make sense?
 
Humm

Well, what he is asking for is codependency... Or working towards it or worse!
What you need is to stand your ground...
Be you! Free you! Have him Except you ... For everything you are and be what you do/did. Through direct actions of yours or independent of him... It will take time.. We're all different here.

If That can't be tried while still staying at the same home? Then it's probably best to start over separate.. Move out for a bit and start a new with him. To see if he can Except you!?
I'm sorry he's putting you there... That's just too needy of him.
Jm2cts.
 
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http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf could get you started. Then you can print and color. Tweak things at will.

Green is go.

Yellow things -- Proceed with caution. Check in first. Probably fine, but heads up appreciated.

Red things are stop. Needs negotiation or serious talk first. (I would be pretty mad if my spouse decided to make babies with someone else without telling me ahead of time. )

Thank you for this link BTW. Great resource!!!
 
Glad the link helps some. Hopefully he's willing to have that kind of conversation.

I tried to speak with him last night and he is adamant that having access to my communications is how he is going to build trust in me. I don't understand or see how that is going to address the issue; I asked if we could work together to find an alternative, and he reiterated that this is the consequence for my action.

If that is the ONLY path he will accept? He won't entertain other ways to try to solve this?

You could accept he is this rigid. And you can still say "No, thank you. I will not give you access to my phone."

Then let the chips fall where they may.

If the conversation needs to change to "how to best break up" because you do not see eye-to-eye? Accept you guys are not compatible and have the conversations you need to be having then.

Rather than banging heads on walls because he wants "super joined at the hip" and you do not want that.

I understand that he doesn't trust me. I consistently don't meet his expectations of communication. He wants me to err on the side of oversharing whenever I'm talking to someone (whether they are a potential sexual partner or not) and to be engaged in texting communication throughout the day.

I'll be frank. If it were me? That would suck up too much of my time and energy. It is not my job to reassure him all hours of the day that I'm not doing funny business out there somewhere or that I'm instantly available at the drop of a hat for him and his issues.

I would decline to do that oversharing/texting all day long. I would only offer what I am comfortable giving. If that is not enough for him, it is not enough. He can choose to learn to live with it or choose to dump me.

And if he kept bugging me about it? *I* would dump him because

  • he doesn't trust me
  • we do not have compatible communication style/frequency
  • he's pushy about everything having to his way or about what he wants/needs and my wants/needs go out the window.
  • And instead of accepting that I come as I come, he's trying to turn me into something I am not.

In regard to oversharing, I try to communicate as much as I can with still maintaining boundaries I've tried to set for privacy -- boundaries driven by a desire to be an individual and have some things for myself, rather than everything in my social life entangled with him.

That is a natural desire to want.

Boundaries are for YOU to maintain with consequences YOU do.

If I have a boundary of "I don't lend my things to careless people" and you borrow my lawn mower and break it? Don't apologize and offer to repair/replace? Then you come asking for my vac? I am going to tell you "No. I cannot loan that." Because I have to obey my personal boundary of "I do not loan things to careless people." Tell you "no" when you want my vac is a consequence that *I* can do that keeps me safe from any new shenanigans.

You have a personal boundary of "I want to be an individual. I want to have some things for myself, rather than everything in my social life entangled with him."

When he asks you to entangle all your social life things with him? Asks you to lose your individuality so he can feel happy?

You could obey your boundary. You could say "No, thank you. I will not be doing that." That is a consequence you can do.

He has to find another way to solve his insecure or whatever it is.

If he does not trust you, and he's not willing to engage in trust building, then the consequence HE could do is break up and not date someone he does not trust. Instead, he wants you to allow him to "punish" you by taking away your phone privileges like a kid being grounded.

Do you want that kind of dynamic?

In regard to communicating constantly throughout the day, there are days where I don't want to message at all or am very busy at work, but it's hard for him to not take it personally and think that I'm not engaged because I don't want to talk to him.

Blue is your stuff. Red is his stuff. You could let him attend to his stuff. You attend to yours. That is part of maintaining your individuality. It isn't that you don't care about him, but you cannot be doing all his jobs for him either.

I think in a healthy relationship there's stuff.

  • Your stuff. That is only your stuff to deal with.
  • His stuff. That is only his stuff to deal with.
  • Our stuff. The shared stuff you deal with together.

It cannot ALL be "our stuff."

If you are busy at work and cannot text him all day? Do your work. Do not text.

If he does not get texts? And he chooses to think you are doing funny business rather than thinking you are busy working? And him thinking you are doing funny business upsets him? He's the one upsetting his own self with his thinking. If he acts out at you later, blames, temper tantrums?

You can say "No, thank you. Managing your temper tantrum for you is not my job. When I am at work, they pay me to be working. Not to chit chat with you all day."

He sounds like he wants to be all up in your business -- super enmeshed/codependent/weird/whatever it is.

It sounds like you do not like this much "togetherness" because it feels stifling. So don't do it or encourage it.

If you end up breaking up over it? That's where it ends up then. Because HE is not willing to bend, dial it down some, find alternate solutions, etc.

There is only so much you can do from your end.
You could accept that.

You seem happy to be with him if he could chill out and stop trying to turn you into his other partner, stop being so rigid, and stop trying to run your life for you/get all up in your business. If he needs professional help with this, he could see someone to help him.

If he cannot relax and chill out? Then you could choose to be without him and not deal in this any more.

It sounds draining. :(

Galagirl
 
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Hi doglover0217,

My perception here is that Red is being too intrusive in your life. Access to your phone so he can snoop? Expecting you to text him 24/7? That's too much. The one thing I would say on your part is that you should have been honest with him right away about the person you made out with. But I think you already know that.

I am skeptical about whether you and Red are compatible; a breakup may be in order. But that's your call to make.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hmm. Really open marriage (couple-first) stuff more than polyamory, but not unusual so let's go with it, & do some "poly viewpoint."
________________

In polyamory, you have every right to renegotiate your "privacy boundary."

In polyamory, you have no particular right to impose it on a partner without discussing it or even informing him.

In polyamory, he has no particular right to demand proof of ANYTHING except as you choose to grant him.
________________

having access to my communications is how he is going to build trust in me.
No. If someone behaves -- pronounced "does as I tell them" -- because I am pointing a gun at his head, it be sociopathic (at best) for me to claim they're doing it voluntarily, much less from the goodness of their soul.

It fixes NOTHING, & manages to avoid hard stuff like thinking & communication.
________________

When is the actual timeline? You hint that the two of you have had boundary issues already.

Sneaking looks at your account(s) is not dissimilar to roaches & extramarital affairs: generally, if you find one, you can safely assume there's more that are better hidden.

Is "making out" (whatever THAT means) with someone -- without prior approval from him, while you've sent him off to do one-on-one stuff -- your passive-aggressive way of forcing an extant issue that you've avoided discussing?

You are indeed "acting shady."

He is indeed acting controlling.

If his little feelings are hurt because you "made out" with someone while he was getting his weenie polished, then that's up to him to at least pretend to be a mature adult & discuss it openly & directly. If he cannot even masquerade as a grownup, that ought to give you a hint as to how the relationship is failing.

One of you is "checking out" here. Maybe both. IMO, you can save yourself much time / effort / heartache by addressing THAT directly, & either working together to fix it, or putting plans in place to move along.

Overall, sounds a lot like "monogamy +" to me.
 
I went through something similar with my ex husband. We were living monogamous (I was poly at heart but chose to be mono with him), so it wasn't the exact same scenario. And it centered around "proof of love," not "proof of trustworthiness," but I will share it.

After our 3rd child was born, my husband naturally got less of my attention. We had a 5 year old, a 3 year old, and a newborn infant. He worked full time, I was a full time mother. Our kids were not laid back, they were the needy sort.

So... my ex wanted more of my attention. He started getting all pissy about it. He had a tendency to be passive aggressive to I had to worm out of him what the problem was. Somehow he wanted me to carve out more time in my day to prove I still loved him. He viewed our children as his competitors for my love and attention.

I cared about him. I wanted to do my best to show he mattered to me. So. I kept the kids away from him in the morning, so he could drink coffee and eat breakfast undisturbed, go poop, shower and dress undisturbed. (Meanwhile I wasn't getting showered or dressed yet, I was able to choke down one cup of cooling coffee, I was usually eating my breakfast with at least the nursing baby on my lap, if not also the 3 year old, I was taking a poop with someone leaning on my knee. I was feeding the kids, breaking up their fights, changing diapers and dressing them, etc.)

I also kept the kids busy when he got home from work for about 20 minutes so he could change clothes, use the bathroom and eat his homecooked dinner undisturbed before having to play with them or tend to their needs.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, make me a lunch to bring to work. So I spent some period of time making sure we had sandwich stuff, and in the midst of being swarmed by kids and taking time to nurse a newborn, I made him a sandwich before he left for work.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, make me a cooked lunch, a sandwich feels unsatisfactory. So I spent time making sure to make enough food the night before to make sure there were delicious home cooked leftovers. If there weren't, by his specifications, he required a microbaked potato, some steamed vegetables, covered in some kind of sauce. Ranch dressing was acceptable. So I would prepare one or the other option.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So, I bought a variety of stickers with a love theme, hearts, "I love you's" etc. I put them on the lid of his lunch container.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, give me more sex. So I increased my availability from one night a week (we had family bed by mutual agreement), to making sure I was awake after getting the kids to bed, and able to have sex 3 or 4 nights a week.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. I ended up learning, through more years and couples therapy, he would have maybe felt loved if we'd never had kids, and I never looked at or talked to another man, or to a female platonic friend (because I might complain to her about him omg).

It all became clear to me, it came down to his lack of self worth. He had a hole there I never would have been able to fill.

So, there's an underlying lack of trust coming from Red to you. If he's anything like my ex husband, no matter how much you give, it won't be enough. Even if you gave as much as Blue apparently does, I imagine he'd want more from you than Blue gives, given the history around this. Blue apparently wants to be enmeshed and co-depedent. You don't. So you're at an eternal disadvantage.
 
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