How do you describe this?

saltedpaper

New member
Hey all,
I’ve got a situation I’m trying to wrap my head around. I’ve got some ideas how to describe it so everyone in my relationships can discuss it. I’m so close to the situation that I want a little more perspective. Thanks!

Drew is in a long term relationship with Karen and a more recent relationship with Meg. Meg has been seeing Rick for more than a year. Everyone knows what’s going on with everyone else.

Rick is the newest to polyamory and says he has wanted to try it for years. His ex wife was not interested and now he’s trying it out. He says he’s ok with Meg sleeping with Drew, and is not seeing anyone else, he is free to and is not.

When Rick visits Meg he refuses to have sex with her in her bed if Drew has been there within the past few days, even with fresh sheets.

When Meg visits Rick he questions s her about having sex with Drew. When he learns they have had sex in the past few days processes his discomfort by talking about his negative feelings in a dramatic and verbose way. All the while saying he does not want a monogamous relationship. Meg then spends significant energy comforting Rick. Most of the time she is successful in convincing Rick to have sex with her.

How do you describe Rick’s behavior?
 
As someone who is struggling with formulating unobstructive boundaries around this issue.

It might be the reason he isn't compatible with a lot of people who practice poly. I think what might work for him is if Meg (and maybe other partners) had long distance relationships so he could have sex with his partner(s) most of the time and then have a break when there is contact with someone else. It seems him being unavailable for sex so often isn't working for him.

Meg could have boundaries around how much she is willing to share. She could opt not to tell Rick anything about when she last had sex and where. That's okay to do. Rick might decide that he needs to know and then that makes them.incompatible. He might decide to consider how much it will really affect him if he doesn't know and get over it. He could list the things he absolutely needs like clean sheets and no evidence of sex/play and see if he can deal with that.
 
"Jealous asshole" came to mind. Really, Rick is just super insecure. He is attempting to control the situation. He probably doesn't even realize he's acting like an idiot.
 
When he learns they have had sex in the past few days processes his discomfort by talking about his negative feelings in a dramatic and verbose way. All the while saying he does not want a monogamous relationship.

We call it "mixed signals" when we hint around about sex, but then shut down an attempt to hold hands.

When you do the above, it is called abuse. We can't do this to people.

I will admit my wife and I had a roller coaster as we tip-toed our way into polyamory. She would turn into Mr. Hyde after Dr. Jeckyl said sure, go ahead and talk to the web cam girl.

But within minutes she would get ahold of herself and start laughing. So I did not endure sustained attack, and it completely vanished when she realized she had temporarily lost her mind.
 
Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words so I know I got it.

BACKGROUND

There is a poly N configuration.

  • (Karen + [Drew) + {Meg] + Rick}

Karen isn't really part of this story. It's mainly this part

  • [Drew + {Meg] + Rick}

PRESENT SITUATION

Rick (the newcomer to the grouping and to poly in general) has a hard time sharing Meg sexually with Drew. He says one thing but does another.

Says

  • says he has wanted to try poly for years.
  • says he’s ok with Meg sleeping with Drew

What he does

  • Rick visits Meg at her house. If Meg has shared sex with Drew in her bed within the past few days, even if she changes the sheets? Rick refuses to share sex with Meg there. (Which is ok, It's his body. He chooses how and when to share it.)

  • Meg visits Rick at his house. Before sharing sex with her Rick asks Meg when her last encounter was. If he learns she shared sex with Drew in the last few days? He doesn't want to share sex. (Which is ok, It's his body. He chooses how and when to share it.)

PROBLEM

It sounds like HOW he expresses himself is the problem for Meg. Is that it? :confused:

  • Rick processes/expresses his discomfort by talking about his negative feelings in a dramatic and verbose way. All the while saying he does not want a monogamous relationship.

  • Meg then spends significant energy comforting Rick. (<-- Is this what Meg objects too? Wanting to come over for fun, and then ends up doing heavy emotional labor?)

  • Most of the time she is successful in convincing Rick to have sex with her. (<---Why is Meg trying to talk Rick into sharing sex with her when he's expressing discomfort? That's not kind behavior to me. It's no better than some dude trying to get into some lady's pants despite or OVER her protests/discomfort. Kinda gross behavior. I think Meg could stop doing that. :( It's not kind and it doesn't help Rick see her as trustworthy if she's not listening and is just trying to get into this pants.)

How do you describe Rick’s behavior?

Well, if I got the story correct?

I'd say Rick is a poly newbie who is not yet comfortable sharing sex with Meg if he knows she has recently shared sex with her other partner Drew. Not unusual.

SUGGESTIONS

Meg could accept she's dating a newbie, Rick. If she doesn't want the newbie hassles, stop dating him. If she's willing to deal with newbie hassles, make reasonable accommodation for that. And avoid pressuring him into sharing sex when he's not comfortable.

At this time if Rick needs X days to pass to be comfortable? Meg could choose to honor it.
  • Just not invite Rick over to her place or go to his place til the X days are already past.
  • Then when Rick asks, she can say she's met the days. And there-- now a non-issue.
  • They can share sex if they want without all this hoo-ha.

If he's STILL struggling and doing drama talk after X days were already met?
  • Then it is on him for either not giving clear communication on how many days it really is.
  • OR because it's not about the days at all -- he's not doing his internal work needed so he can become ok with sharing a partner.

Maybe when he says he's ok with Meg sleeping with Drew he means he WANTS to become ok with it, and needs help learning how.

What work is Rick doing to help himself overcome all that?
  • Reading a book?
  • Becoming educated on polyamory attending a munch or class?
  • Figuring out what squicks him out Drew being Meg's other lover?
    • Would it be the same with any lover?
    • Or is it Drew in particular? (Ex: He's Rick's Dad, Boss, or some other odd connection)

Is he actually asking Meg to help him? Has she consented to help him?

Or is he just emotionally flooding and dumping on to Meg?

If Meg is tired of waiting for him to get it together, she could ask Rick what he plans to do about it. She could offer to to help where reasonable and rational.

Meg could ask to find out if he's got this on his own and what his actual plan is, or if he wants her to read a book with him, attend a workshop, or couples counseling or whatever. Like some things he wants to do himself, and other things he wants her to help him with. Actually talk and sort it out so they are on the same page.

Could do some worksheets together.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

But first Meg may have to examine her tolerance for "poly newbie angst stuff."

This experience of (dating Rick the poly newbie) might be teaching Meg that maybe she doesn't dig being in that situation. And maybe Meg prefers to limit herself to dating people who are already poly experienced so she can skip the poly newbie angst stuff?

Galagirl
 
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Hi saltedpaper,

I actually get the impression that Rick is trying to train Meg to have sex with Drew less often. Could be subconscious on Rick's part. Somewhere deep in his subconscious, Rick may even wish that Meg wouldn't have sex with Drew at all. Like Rick wants to be "one of the cool kids" who dig polyamory, but he isn't really wired for it.

So, when we say, "the past few days," exactly how many days are we talking about? Maybe the thing for Meg to do is, wait *more than a few days* after having sex with Drew before she is willing to visit Rick or have Rick over. See if that solves the problem. If it doesn't, then maybe the number of days isn't the issue.

One could always speculate that Rick could do some work on himself, to not be so jealous or whatever it is when he talks about his negative feelings in a dramatic and verbose way. What exactly does he say to Meg? Exactly what negative feelings is he having? On the other hand, maybe he is hardwired for exclusive monogamy, and just doesn't realize it.

Anyway those are my thoughts, to be taken with a grain of salt.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Rick can be described as "someone Meg should dump."
 
OP, I am curious which person you are in the situation you've described. My guess is Drew?

If so, you can let Meg manage her own relationship with Rick, but you can also ask her to stop complaining about Rick or describing Rick's odd behavior.
 
OP, I am curious which person you are in the situation you've described. My guess is Drew?

If so, you can let Meg manage her own relationship with Rick, but you can also ask her to stop complaining about Rick or describing Rick's odd behavior.

I'm guessing Meg is "me," the OP saltedpepper. I hope it is, since she's the one choosing to be in a sexual relationship with a newbie, and is the one who has the choice to make. To follow our advice or not.

I've had very bad luck dating poly newbies. They always seem up for poly, but then have one issue or another, or several issues, around actually doing poly successfully. If they aren't jealous, they don't understand commitment without monogamy, or they don't actually have time, or money, or emotional bandwidth to actually make poly work, they are bad communicators, they really just want to get laid a time or 2 and are lying about what they are truly up for, they have an unrecognized/untreated mental illness (depression, narcissism, very odd sexual kink, grandiose plans that don't connect to reality, etc.), or they've had past trauma, need therapy and maybe meds, or other self care, and aren't really healthy enough to have any relationships, much less poly ones.

It sounds like Rick likes the idea of poly, but maybe just has imagined he, himself, having 2 lovers. He's not cool with one of his lovers having another lover. He's territorial, maybe fearful that Meg might compare him to her other bf Drew, or he is actually outright repulsed at the idea of another penis having been in "his woman's" vagina recently.

It's not that unusual for a poly person to want, say, 24 hours between sex with partners, whether it's the person having the 2 sexual partners (the hinge of the V), or one of her bfs (the legs of the V). Sometimes a hinge might not be horny again in 24 hours. Sometimes either person (hinge or leg) might need space to emotionally be available, present with their partner. But needing to wait several days, 3? 4? 5? And then the leg wanting to bitch and moan about it before they're finally in the mood? That sounds very disagreeable. I, personally, would choose to back of off a sexual relationship with someone who is struggling this bad about "sharing me" with another. Maybe just take sex off the table altogether and be friends, or just back off entirely.

My relationship with each partner is its own thing. If I was in a V, I wouldn't want to limit my sex with my longer term partner to like, once a week, just so I could convince my newer partner I was "clean enough in my vagina" to be OK to fuck. That's just kinda gross, disrespectful, and almost smacks of being "sex negative," which is unacceptable to me in a partner.
 
Thanks

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. This is really helping where I hoped it would, having outside perspectives. There’s better communication as well. This is an evolving situation.

I appreciate the advice as well

Thanks all
 
I never realized that this was a thing. I'm sure it is because I opened up to group sex before fully opening my relationship, but there have been several cases where I was intimate with my wife hours after she was with another guy.

I don't think I would want to be with a woman that expected me to be three days fresh before we slept together, that'd put me at taking mandatory three-day breaks from being sexual with other people. I also can't imagine taking a three-day break from my wife because she had slept with a guy while I was at work one night.

I'm glad you opened my eyes to this, I would never have thought to ask new people how they felt about that.

I think the thing I would be concerned with, besides the fact that he is insecure and needs to unlearn monogamy, is a date with him worth the three to five dates you gave up to be prepared for him? I can't imagine a special hug on the planet worth going three days without my wife's attention.

Is it possible that he is trying to use these little ticks to have some control over a situation he is used to controlling? As a man in a monogamous world, we are taught that we control things, now that he has entered a world where everybody is doing as they please it is a lot to unlearn. I am far from possessive and I've posted here before about having to unlearn the machismo instilled in men about how we function in a relationship. It can feel very vulnerable to go from being told you're the head of a household to being with people that live in a world of options, it keeps you on your toes and some people can't cope right away. I've seen it in a friend, and learned a bit about it from my own expiriences.
 
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