His wife ended our relationship

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I get you love him and it's easier to blame the whole sitch on her and her decision to use this veto, but it's just as much his fault for how he handles it. He could stand up and say, "Hon I love you and if you need us to slow down fine, but you do not get to tell me I have to end a relationship. It's my relationship, not yours.")

Oh no no...I'm not blaming the whole veto thing on her. I thing it's lame that he let her do it too & I told him before & again now. But worst of all I accepted it. I alone am responsible for my own happiness. And I repeat, I will NOT accept it again. It's not fair & I can't even know the reason except that she's uncomfortable with us having sex. Even though he won't tell me the specific reasons now, he told me once before that she asked him if "he was in love with me", don't think that the problem now & that J & me are more sexually compatible, that seems to be the problem & is probably true. The reality is that she knows I'm more sexually experienced (I'm 12 yrs older than her & she's had 2 lovers her whole life) & somehow knows I'm more sexual, way less inhibited, even though he doesn't discuss what we do (I know this for a fact). And even though she's swears she's not jealous, I'm quite beautiful & she's plain/average. That's not me saying that, that's feedback I get from others. I'm not conceited & am a very nice person who values people for who they are not what they look like despite appreciating physical beauty. I've had women hate me based on my appearance, which is horribly unfair. Yeah, terrible problem right? So she's feeling insecure I guess about whatever & I deserve to have my heart broken b/c of it.

Luckily I just had a beautiful afternoon with a new female lover....nothing like a lovely distraction. I still feel horrible but....

And as for London having a disorder I was unaware of that. I'm Bipolar, des that give me an excuse to be an asshole?
 
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Now, I'm married, long term and often get crap on the whole couples privilege thing.

I am a realist & understand that married couples, esp those with children have more at stake, more to lose than just 2 lovers. But when you put everyone on the level of being a sentient being with thoughts & feelings, I am just as important as them. Even though we had an intense connection & I'm almost glad it's over. I wasn't even 2nd in this life after his wife. He has a kid, a farm, farm animals & they all seemed to come before me. I want a primary relationship (or two), I want someone in my bed every night. I want someone to share my life with. In the meantime, I'm really enjoying a chance to explore my options after a very unhappy 10 year relationship/marriage (which I did get 2 beautiful children from so no regrets there) even though my life is a bit of a rollercoaster at times.

And hell yeah, I have no regrets. I think Albert Einstein said, there is no failure, only feedback. Feeling like a failure keeps you stuck in the past. You learn from your mistakes & move on . I try to live in the moment with my eyes to the future. It's the only way I stay sane & at peace.
 
I always call BS on the whole couples privilege thing. People are not toys to fill your time with when you are bored with your home life.

I have been married 12 years. Have 2 younger kids at home. I still find time for both men in my life almost equally. Murf's schedule is the only thing preventing a true 50/50 split of my time.

Unfortunately not many seem to be able to handle such a situation.
 
I am a realist & understand that married couples, esp those with children have more at stake, more to lose than just 2 lovers. But when you put everyone on the level of being a sentient being with thoughts & feelings, I am just as important as them.


I'm glad you are taking it as such, a learning experience. I think we have all had our fair share of them and honestly my only regrets are that my learning came at the expense of bad feelings. For me and for others. Hearts get broken and bruised and it's unfortunate.

It does sound like they have work to do. Dealing with NRE or insecurities is her job and if she needs help from him she needs to voice that. It CAN be worked through and as hard as it is, if they are serious about poly they need to do the work. Sometimes I think it's more work when you are in an established relationship already, but if you truly want healthy relationships, free to grow the way they will and not put definitions on them, then you do it! That's not to say there aren't time frames. You know, when you are comfortable with over nights, visits with kids all that. But again, those are defined by EVERYONE to work.



As for the Aspergers, Bi Polar, et. al. Well, I have always held to the belief that these things that are wrong with us, they are reasons things are harder, not excuses. Take that as you will. For me, it's a way for me to explain why I can't get my point across the way I want or my brain fuzzes and things don't make sense, but not an excuse for hurting someone or not trying.

I do enjoy seeing what people use to define themselves though. I just wonder a lot on how that changes things. I've seen a few times someone mention they are getting a degree in mental health, and I wonder, well what does THAT mean?? I know more about things than many of my therapists because of the research I do and the experiences I've had, is that discounted because well I won't have the DEGREE? Does a degree mean you know something or see something different than me? Well I thought just on the virtue of being a different person that was true! So I take what labels people give themselves as interesting but no more merit than if you tell me you are female or male. It's such a small part of you I don't see how it makes much difference in the weight of opinions!
 
Thank you, Vixtoria and Boring Guy. I now have no reason to respond to the OP's nasty private message.
 
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I just haven't said anything to piss YOU off - YET. Other people think my posts are just as bad if not worse than london's. The difference between me and london, however, which could be the reason I actually have made some friends here, is that I can take it as well as I can dish it out, and london can do one of those things well and the other not at all.

I disagree with this. I've posted one thread about an issue I had, some uncomfortable questions were asked in it. They were uncomfortable but necessary, and overall they helped. If/when I post another one here, I strongly hope that people give honest opinions/answers. If things are so bad that I'm asking the internet for help, I want the internet to help me. I hate when I want to critically evaluate my actions with someone and that person is just set on making everyone else the bad guy. When someone is the bad guy, there will always be things that I could have done to stop them being bad to me. I can only change and control myself.

I am, however, much less inclined to change my opinion on issues that don't directly relate to me, or are about other people's problems/perspectives etc. I don't think I lack compassion, I just think my compassion looks different to other people's.

And as a side note, I'm not here to "make friends", as it were. I spend most my life trying to limit the obligations I have to people. Making friends on here would mean I have to respond to things they write about their lives that I find uninteresting and say happy birthday and things like that. Not something I'd want to do.
 
Thank you, Vixtoria and Boring Guy. I now have no reason to respond to the OP's nasty private message.

Nasty...OMG...Considering how you rag on on people who have just gotten dumped that wasn't even close to being nasty. Get over yourself! I should have blocked you when I had the chance before.
 
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I always call BS on the whole couples privilege thing. People are not toys to fill your time with when you are bored with your home life.

Thanks! That's kind of what I feel like here, I've been given & have accepted a pitifully small amount of time each week (or less). Again, lesson learned & I will never accept this again & I would certainly never impose this on another person. Even when the conclusion is inevitable, there should be a discussion amongst the individuals involved so everyone is left with their humanity left intact.
 
I do enjoy seeing what people use to define themselves though. I just wonder a lot on how that changes things. I've seen a few times someone mention they are getting a degree in mental health, and I wonder, well what does THAT mean?? I know more about things than many of my therapists because of the research I do and the experiences I've had, is that discounted because well I won't have the DEGREE? Does a degree mean you know something or see something different than me? Well I thought just on the virtue of being a different person that was true! So I take what labels people give themselves as interesting but no more merit than if you tell me you are female or male. It's such a small part of you I don't see how it makes much difference in the weight of opinions!

I'm not saying I'm any better than anyone else b/c I'm Bipolar (I was being a smart ass b.c someone brought up London's issue to excuse his behavior) or because I'm becoming a therapist or scored 99%ile on my MATs. I am a unique individual with a unique set of experiences. My therapist is wonderful, so open-minded & yet she thinks she gets poly & she doesn't, she had one couple in an unhappy marriage who decided to fuck other people, sorry, not poly to me, but I'm trying to help her learn.

I bring a lot to the table and, although I'm certainly not perfect, I have experienced a lot & can hopefully help a lot of people lead happier more productive lives without just slapping them in the face with reality over & over again like some people do online here....don't we all get enough of that every day just by living our lives? Do you really need another smack in the face when someone has just broken your heart? GMAFB. What I'm saying is that I've found that there are techniques that work in my day-to-day life that I will put to use in my practice that are more effective than others in getting my point across. If you are harsh with your advice & hit someone's ego, they might not even hear your advice so your advice gets lost & becomes pointless. What is the point of advice? To make yourself feel good? To boost your own fragile ego? Or to help another human being gain a better understanding of a particular situation & move forward? I like to figure out the best way to do that. Sometimes they need a kick in the butt but most of the time, they need to hear the right words at the right time so they can hear what you are saying and use the advice to their best advantage. This is my entire point about the bullshit tough love approach used by people on this forum & others, it's often about what's best for them & not what's best for the person who's posing the question or having the problem. So yeah, it's a public forum but what's the point of getting on here & being an egotistical asshole & not helping our fellow beings? Esp. when we are such a relatively small, relatively misunderstood community who really needs to the support of those who understand our struggles. You just never never kick a dog when it's down.
 
Final visit

And for the final time he comes to see me I asked that he not rush off at 1am like he usually does, he says this isn't b/c of his wife but I don't believe that. He has farm animals that need to be tended to in the morning but they get taken care of somehow if he's out of state on a job. I have never once made a demand on his time the whole time we've been dating. I just want to be #1 once, once! I come behind him, wife, kid, house, farm, business, animals...so what does that make me #8? He said he'll think about it. I can't tell if I should tell him to go fuck himself or if I need the closure. When I asked him he told him (in a not so nice way) "I don't think you understand, I have these animals...blah blah blah" so basically I'm not as important as a bunch of fucking farm animals. I must be the dumbest smart person out there.

I'm really debating whether to tell him to go fuck himself. How can I even stay friends with someone who would treat me this way? Why on earth do I get involved with men that treat me this way? The question of the ages....and will I ever solve it.
 
Just don't date guys who have wives, houses, kids and farm animals.

If you want to be #1, date someone who has time for you. It's your choice.
 
Just don't date guys who have wives, houses, kids and farm animals. If you want to be #1, date someone who has time for you. It's your choice.

And you live 1.5 hours away from each other. The problem is I thought this was going to just be a sexual diversion like the last guy but it turned out we liked each other a whole lot. We couldn't predict that part.

Lesson learned for next time. I really hope to get into a more steady type of relationship with someone closer with whom I can really connect with & can give me more of what I want & need.
 
There was absolutely nothing wrong with what I said in this thread, no matter how much you try and maintain that there was. You're just looking for someone else to misdirect your anger at. If it helps for that person to be me, go for it, but let's acknowledge that is exactly what you are doing here.

Knowing that it takes two people to agree and carry out a veto on a partner has nothing to do with autism. It's just pretty obvious. Where autism and literal thinking does come into it, perhaps, is where I made the assumption that the OP does not acknowledge this. An assumption made because the thread, which essentially about veto power, is titled "His wife ended our relationship".

Maybe, though, I was meant to just say what a bitch the wife is and how terrible it is for the "victims" of this horrendous veto whilst completely ignoring the fact that the "victims" agreed to it too.
 
Unrealistic expectations are really what kills having satisfying relationships in the here and now.

We start out agreeing to certain parameters for a relationship, feeling happy that someone wants us, confident, desired, and open to whatever possibilities lay ahead. Still, we do have ideas about the situation and expectations that things will go a certain way (casual, easygoing, infrequent... whatever). It's okay, we feel prepared and able to handle it. We share physical and emotional intimacy, get to know them, feel close, and eventually let ourselves be vulnerable with them, showing sides of ourselves we wouldn't let anyone else see. When we realize we have deeper feelings for the person, we then rather quickly begin to develop a different set of expectations -- not based on the person we're involved with, mind you, but instead based on how we feel and, more importantly, what we've been taught to believe we should expect when we feel these things for someone -- as if the feelings we are experiencing are supposed to change everything about the relationship! Deep down, where we tend to refuse to look, we know that the person cannot or will not be able to meet those expectations, nor appreciate any changes to the initial agreed-upon parameters to the relationship. Even when we know those expectations will never be met, we indulge in them anyway. They are completely unrealistic, but we give in and choose to ignore reality, ultimately absenting ourselves from the situation in the present and believing in a fantasy.

Then when they confirm the fact that they can't meet our expectations by backing away to create some distance from us, or saying and doing things that utterly disappoint us, we get mad and feel dismissed, disrespected, inconsequential, used, foolish, and so on. We resolve to never put up with that shit again... until the next time we meet someone, feeling all happy and giddy about being desired, and then wrapped up in the chemical euphoria of endorphins and oxytocin, so we accept whatever they can give us, until again we develop deeper feelings and then place expectations on top of that. It's a cycle, a belief system that keeps us from being fully present and seeing the reality of a situation.

If anything, I think that the most important thing to watch out for is our own expectations - and these may be so ingrained in us from an early age, that they have become a pattern we don't even know we have until things start to implode and we realize we've been here before.

Yeah, it sucks. <sigh> I think that awareness and letting go of old beliefs and expectations is the key.
 
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Actually, having had farm animals myself, I understand the obligation. He probably hires someone to take care of them when he goes out of town. Animals are like kids, totally dependent on their keeper.
 
"I don't think you understand, I have these animals...blah blah blah" so basically I'm not as important as a bunch of fucking farm animals. I must be the dumbest smart person out there.

I hope you feel better soon.

I don't think it's about not being as important as. One of the most important relationships in my life right now is with an animal. Sometimes that relationship means that I go home when I'd otherwise be with my SO. Or that he must come to where I am. Or that I out and out can't see him because I'm doing something else. C (my dog) and I have nights out twice a week at the moment and regular weekends away just for us.

I don't have the complications of kids and another partner to consider but for sure, my SO doesn't always get to come first in my life. Luckily he loves C too and doesn't get jealous about the amount of time C and I spend together. Jealousy over time with dogs isn't at all uncommon and many of my friends either deal with feeling jealous because their partners spend so much time and emotion on the dogs in the household or deal with their partner's jealousy over the dog.

It's just about balance I think and trying to keep it reasonable. Sounds like your ex must have very little time in his life for an outside relationship and you'd prefer somebody that had more time? I hope that you feel loads better soon and are able to find somebody who shares your goals for a relationship.

IP
 
When we realize we have deeper feelings for the person, we then rather quickly begin to develop a different set of expectations -- not based on the person we're involved with, mind you, but instead based on how we feel and, more importantly, what we've been taught to believe we should expect when we feel these things for someone.

Way to nail that point down, nycindie! Viewing expectation as fluid instead of static makes much more sense.

I had a friend years ago who had an issue with marriage because he felt it came with a new assumed list of expectation and he found it to be an irrational thing to do to a relationship that was working just fine. He described it as "Hey, this relationship is great, I love everything about it... let's CHANGE IT!". His assertion is something I've always agreed with but your breakdown is much more applicable to the standard relationship dynamic. That is to say, he attributed it to marriage, and you are attributing it to simply reaching different levels of intimacy.

/stealing
 
nycindie, that was an awesome distillation of the knowledge I've watched you painfully gain for yourself (from your blog).

Also, the synchronicity in my life is kind of amazing today. Someone in my local poly group posted an article that talks about this same concept in a different way (and I read that early this morning). Then I had lunch with a married couple I haven't seen in a long time, and after he went to work, she and I had a gabfest, and she described much the same thing, in her own way.

I'm beginning to wonder what hideous change the universe has in store for me. :p

:D
 
Unrealistic expectations are really what kills having satisfying relationships in the here and now.

OMG...I'm not going to quote the whole thing you wrote but WOW! You nailed it. I've been sitting here hating this guy. Hating his fucking guts for treating me like a 2nd class citizen even though my other lover has been trying to help me see it differently. I'm just going thru the stages of grief & will come out the other side. I've been thru much much worse.

I don't know what it is about me, and please I'm not conceited, it could be as simple as my phermones, but guys often "fall in love" with me even when they claim to just want to be FWBs, I don't always fall but this time I did even when I knew it was limited. It never meant that I would break up his marriage or wanted him forever, but it still hurts.

This is by far, the best, the most lucid advice I have gotten on this topic to date! THANK YOU!
 
Actually, having had farm animals myself, I understand the obligation. He probably hires someone to take care of them when he goes out of town. Animals are like kids, totally dependent on their keeper.

He doesn't, he chronically over-extends himself & wont hire anyone to do anything & rarely asks anyone to do him favors. He does manage to get these things done when he has to go out of town though, even when he drove to Texas for 3 days to buy some piece of equipment he didn't really need......his Dad who lives right next door can easily come over to watch the kid so his wife can tend to HER animals (mohair goats, alpacas, etc for weaving). This is literally ONE TIME that I am asking him to do something for me. I have never once, once, made a demand on his time & he acknowledged that. All he said is he'd "think about it" not even that he "try". It's not even the break up that's upsetting me anymore, it's the being treating as a 2nd class citizen the whole time we've been seeing each other that doesn't rate as high as a barnyard animal. And shame on me for accepting it. Yeah, maybe I'm just exhausted from taking care of a sick kid & a 2 yr old that won't sleep past 5.30 am & I have a slightly bruised heart & ego, but it still seems pretty shitty to me. I think this man is sweet but incredibly selfish.

And I just keep wondering what kind of person actively looks for a girlfriend while his wife just had a baby? I asked over & over & over again if he was sure she was ok with it & even talked to her about it. Am I an idiot? Plus his ex-wife was an apparent nyphomaniac (I'm at a loss for a better term) & this one was practically a virgin. Very very strange.
 
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