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Old 09-27-2016, 05:22 PM
LillDeb LillDeb is offline
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Default Scared of losing my quad, please help.

I know this may be long but I am in desperate need of more experienced advice. I am trying to preserve my quads relationship.

I'm married to my husband of 22 years. We have our issues just as any couple does which we always end up resolving through communication and love. We are by no means unstable. We will call him Hubby.

The two of us are involved with another couple whom we've recently made major, life changing decisions with. They have been married for 21 years and have had a turbulent marriage of which they honestly told us about. Half truths and cheating has taken place within their marriage. We will call her Jane and we can call him John. lol

We dated, became intimate, are fluid bonded, and inseparable over the course of the past year. Our friends took to calling us the "awesome foursome". We are coming up on our 1 year anniversary this next month. 2 months ago we made the unanimous decision to move in together, to merge our homes together, including 4 kids of which 3 know about the relationship between us and are supportive. 3 of the kids live with us while the oldest remained in his home. Did I mention we moved 400 + miles away from our original home to create a homestead? Yea, we did.

I love John. I love my Hubby. 2 very different relationships. I love Jane though we do not have the same intimate connections though it has been there in the past. John and I are very close. John and I share a passion for many of the same things as well as our sexual relationship. He and she have both admitted they do not, nor have they ever had the intensity that John and I have. Hubby and Jane have the same chemistry together too.

However after only 2, going on 3 months of living together, Jane has expressed to John feelings of jealousy, insecurity, and feeling as if she is on "stand by". She recently made a comment to me;"why do you need any attention from me when you have the attention of both my husband and yours." There are a handful of comments that have been uttered where the definitive line of her husband was reiterated.

Allow me to go on to say that if I were doing something with John, she was doing something with Hubby. If John and I are watching a movie they have no interest in or vice versa, Jane and Hubby are together too. Hubby invites her to go do those things that the 2 of them do together where as I may not enjoy doing so. Just as John and I do things together that they have no interest in either. No one person is ever left out of being invited to ANYTHING.

The conversations regarding her emotions are only attained after she has removed herself from the rest of us and she has begun treating us as if we have committed a travesty. Even then those conversations are between Jane and John, never with the 4 of us together. She refuses to openly talk with all of us stating that if she begins to converse she is going to blow up. I'm lost.

Before moving, we were wonderful together. We openly expressed our adoration for the other, held hands between ourselves never excluding one another. I can honestly attest to it was almost picture perfect. Now my heart tells me it is but a matter of time before she pulls the rug from under us all. What do I need to do?

They are going to an event tonight that originally was for the 4 of us. I told John last night that Hubby and I decided it would be best for us to stay home while Jane and he go out. He was not happy though he understands my reasoning. He asked me to watch a movie last night, we invited her to watch with us, she declined and went to sleep without letting anyone know she was going to bed. Then she took it out on John that he didn't come to bed with her. What do I do? I'm lost, I'm scared of losing what essentially is another part of my heart.

Thank you for any forth coming perspectives. They are much appreciated.


Deb
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2016, 05:59 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I am sorry you struggle.

So this is new -- living together for the last 2 mos or so.

Is Jane experiencing increased poly hell feelings because now you all live in the same house? Where before, she had a home to take breaks from the "awesome foursome" so it COULD be awesome? And now there's just never a break from the foursome so it is not awesome for her any more?

OR... could it be that the NRE has worn off for her?

I'm surprised you guys all moved into together and blended the families/kids and moved 400 miles after only dating a year. Did you guys talk enough when you were deciding if you should all live together? Not just how great it would be but how to do conflict resolution well? Because many people in a home is going to lead to some friction sooner or later.

I probably would have tried a few years of summer vacations first. Because (living together for a few weeks/months in summer with an endpoint at the end of vacation) is one thing and (living together 24/7 all year long with no escape to anywhere and no endpoint) is another thing. That's a huge change to go from living separately to full immersion. Plus kids!

But this is where you are at. I think...
  • You could tell Jane you really want to listen. Even if she blows up. And ask if she's willing to share what is upsetting her at this time. And if not right now, when?
  • Does she want more one-on-one attention from you? Because 3 people watching a movie is not the two of you doing something. It doesn't matter that you invite her to 3 or 4 people movie watching if what she craves is 2 people something.
  • Is time management a problem?
  • You could ask her directly if she feels like moving in together was too much too fast.
  • You could ask her directly if she feels demoted, displaced or intruded upon.

But if she doesn't want to speak, then you cannot force her. What you can do is assert your own personal boundaries.

Quote:
The conversations regarding her emotions are only attained after she has removed herself from the rest of us and she has begun treating us as if we have committed a travesty. Even then those conversations are between Jane and John, never with the 4 of us together. She refuses to openly talk with all of us stating that if she begins to converse she is going to blow up. I'm lost.
If she is acting out or acting in? You can tell you her see her acting out by doing _____. You see her acting in by doing _____. You can state you prefer she do ___ instead.

You can restate that you are willing to talk, you are willing to listen even if she blows up. You are willing to go to counseling, problem solve, or even make a plan to move back out.

But you are NOT willing to be treated poorly when she acts out. And you are NOT willing to shrink your life and tiptoe because she's walking around like a volcano about to blow.

You can tell her if she prefers to sort stuff out with John first, and then address the group, that's ok. But tell you when the group appointment date is so all can be informed and all can work toward DE-ESCALATING things. Better than letting resentments build up.

Quote:
Now my heart tells me it is but a matter of time before she pulls the rug from under us all. What do I need to do?
You could stop behaving as though Jane is the boss of the quad. She is the boss of herself. Just as you are the boss of you.

If she chooses not to give clear communication or chooses to avoid problem solving? She does not suggest a group talk time? Well...That pretty much tells you what you need to know. She doesn't want to be living all together and gets all wonky having to do it. Too much for her. The solution? Take the pot off the boil. Stop living together.

You could choose to be assertive and make arrangements to move back out on your own or with your Hubby. Maybe it just works out better for this quad to date and live separately rather than try to date and live under one roof. Expensive lesson learned, but better than sitting in the pressure cooker doing nothing waiting for it to blow.

If you want to preserve good relationships with your quad people, you may have get assertive and accept that cohabitation is not a good thing for this quad and take steps to undo it. Like actually talk about the elephant in the room instead of avoiding it.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-27-2016 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 06:29 PM
LillDeb LillDeb is offline
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OR... could it be that the NRE has worn off for her?
I believe that the NRE for her has worn off. The reason that I say this is because as often as we go out together we try to do things as individual couples too.

Did you guys talk enough when you were deciding if you should all live together? Not just how great it would be but how to do conflict resolution well? Because many people in a home is going to lead to some friction sooner or later.
We discussed this at great length. Agreeing that when occurrences arose that we could all be adults and sort it out accordingly. At length we discussed the pros and the cons to making such a change and everything that it would, could and does entail. Both the positives and the negatives.

That's a huge change to go from living separately to full immersion. Plus kids! I agree with that statement. When I pressed about the fact that we would be under one roof, Hubby and I were reassured repeatedly that she wanted this more than any of us.

[LIST][*]Does she want more one-on-one attention from you?No, not from me. She desires more attention from John. She indicates that she is left out and feels abandoned. Irregardless that he attempts to coax her to go do this or go do that with him. Repeatedly she will decline his offers for anything excursion or even simply watching tv, just the two of them. Hubby and I offered to put a tv in their room after theirs blew up. We were told no, why bother with that when we can all watch tv together. When he is no longer as attentive she begins to withdraw herself from everything. She never simply states, "Hey John, lets go here and do this together." He is the initiator for everything in their relationship even after he is rebuffed with excuses as to why she doesn't want to or can't.
  • Is time management a problem?No, I don't think so as she doesn't work and we don't live a fast paced life.
  • You could ask her directly if she feels like moving in together was too much too fast.I have and the answer remains the same. No, she is happy even when we clearly see that she is not. I don't want her to become angry.
  • You could ask her directly if she feels demoted, displaced or intruded upon. She won't tell me anything anymore that concerns her inner feelings. When I approach her, I am told she isn't used to something or that she isn't one to express herself and that she prefers to keep things closed. I even went as far as to tell her that it hurts me that she won't open up all of sudden. While she does not verbally respond, she is indifferent.

If she is acting out or acting in? Acting in by simply removing herself from all of our company.


I will be attempting the conversation about whether or not she feels like we moved in together to soon. I guess at that point is when we will have to make some really hard decisions. Thank you for your insight. You've given me a lot of food for thought.
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Old 09-27-2016, 07:08 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Quote:
Did you guys talk enough when you were deciding if you should all live together? Not just how great it would be but how to do conflict resolution well? Because many people in a home is going to lead to some friction sooner or later.
We discussed this at great length. Agreeing that when occurrences arose that we could all be adults and sort it out accordingly.
I meant something concrete. HOW will you “be adult” about it? You will use things Like this? Or this?

Because then it becomes "Well, here's a conflict thing. The group agreed to use these tools. Are we doing that right now -- yes/no?"

Quote:
Jane has expressed to John feelings of jealousy, insecurity, and feeling as if she is on "stand by". She recently made a comment to me;"why do you need any attention from me when you have the attention of both my husband and yours."
Sounds like this is not a quad problem. This is a Jane/John problem that affects the quad. But it did not originate in the quad. But this is not new. You knew going in that they were an "up and down-y" couple.

Perhaps John's hinge skills leave something to be desired. Like he's giving time with her a lick and promise, while spending a lot of his time on you and Hubby.

Or Jane is mourning a loss of “dibs.” Where she used to be the only adult in the house and he would go to her automatically for adult companionship. He HAD to deal with her if he wanted adult companionship. And now he has 2 other handy adults in the home, so he doesn't HAVE to deal with his wife if he doesn't want to. He can go talk to a different adult instead.

If she used to enjoy starting a thing with him and then "being won over" by him ... now that he's not bothering to do it since there's other companions handy, maybe that's why she feels isolated and left out. She lost her dance partner.

(I am not that way. But I do know people who LIKE the whole fight & make up cycle.)

Quote:
She desires more attention from John. She indicates that she is left out and feels abandoned. Irregardless that he attempts to coax her to go do this or go do that with him. Repeatedly she will decline his offers for anything excursion or even simply watching tv, just the two of them.
That's for them to solve.

Quote:
Hubby and I offered to put a tv in their room after theirs blew up. We were told no, why bother with that when we can all watch tv together.
If you wanted to give a gift, you could have given a Visa gift card for the anniversary coming up and let them figure out what to do with it.

If you offer to replace their TV, I could see where you might mean it in kindness.

But I can also see where it could be taken like you are "taking over" everything. Taking over John's attention, taking over their responsibilities like purchases for their room...

I can also see where it could be embarassing/awkward too. Because maybe they don't replace the TV because they need money for a bill. But they don't tell you that -- they go with the face saving reason -- "oh, there's a TV in the living room. We are fine."

You might want to back up there. Tread carefully so you aren't stepping on toes.

Quote:
Quote:
Is time management a problem?
No, I don't think so as she doesn't work and we don't live a fast paced life.
I meant is time management with each partner a problem. She gets enough time with you. And enough with Hubby. But NOT enough with John. So it IS a problem there.

And if she is the home person -- has her load suddenly gone WAY up with the chores at home and kid care? While her time with John gone way down? I could see her not loving more work for less fun and being taken for granted.

Quote:
You could ask her directly if she feels like moving in together was too much too fast.I have and the answer remains the same. No, she is happy even when we clearly see that she is not. I don't want her to become angry.
Could be be she is happy living in a group, just not happy with John right now.

Or she means she WANTS to be happy... but is struggling. Like "I am willing to live together, but find that I am not actually able due to X"


Quote:
Quote:
You could ask her directly if she feels demoted, displaced or intruded upon.
She won't tell me anything anymore that concerns her inner feelings. When I approach her, I am told she isn't used to something or that she isn't one to express herself and that she prefers to keep things closed. I even went as far as to tell her that it hurts me that she won't open up all of sudden. While she does not verbally respond, she is indifferent.
And that's the thing. If they are an “up and downy” kind of couple who are having a marriage thing right now? It is not your business. She doesn't HAVE to be telling you all about her private marriage biz just so you feel comfortable.

But as a roomie you have to be watching the "up and downy" from up close now. Where before you lived elsewhere and didn't have to deal with that stuff up close.

Quote:
I will be attempting the conversation about whether or not she feels like we moved in together to soon. I guess at that point is when we will have to make some really hard decisions.
I hope your attempt at a conversation goes well and some clarity is gained. But if not... you have some decisions to make about cohabitation.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-27-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:10 PM
lillady lillady is offline
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Thumbs up Recapture her interest...

Hello my friend, my recommendation is to date her, she is feeling unwanted and maybe need you all to herself as well. Find ways to express your love for her. All relationship has their ups and downs, and need revamping. Remember anything worth having takes work. Do meaningful thing, bubble bath with oils, light some candles, and play relaxing music. She is a part of you and should be recognized as such, remember actions are louder than words. I am a romantic at heart as you can tell. I hope I was able to help.
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:27 AM
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Hi Deb,

It occurs to me that perhaps what bothers Jane the most is that you and Hubby have a great marriage while she and John do not. She is jealous of your marriage, and maybe to her it seems like you "have" two men whereas she only "has" one (Hubby). She maybe doesn't feel like she "has" John. But you do have him.

I also suspect that living together is too much for Jane to handle right now. Maybe you can do it sometime in the future, but I wouldn't do it right now. Find a new place where you and Hubby can live that is not far away, but is a separate domicile. Also I would reduce the amount of time you and Hubby spend with Jane and John. Give them some space, a time-out.

I hope you guys can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:57 AM
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Infinity Infinity is offline
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Hi Deb,

It sounds to me like there are several problems, all compounding each other and inflaming each other. Maybe it would benefit you to have someone like a counselor sort them through individually?

Problems I see:
1. Jane doesn't have good communication skills. She can't or won't open up to you guys about what's wrong, and doesn't have the skills to work through it.
2. You all may have moved in together too soon, and without proper preparation.
3. Jane and John already had a rocky relationship.

Your title of this thread is 'scared of losing my quad'. I think, if you stay in this situation, all three of these issues don't have much of a chance to get solved. In which case, you could lose this quad.

But if you were willing to step back...and say...

"This was a learning experience. It gave us clarity of what we need to work on in order to REALLY be ready for this point. We're clearly not ready YET, but let's step back, stop living together, and each agree on what we're going to be responsible for working on and where we need to be in order to move back in, in (a year? 3 years?)".

And if everyone (especially Jane) was on board with stepping back, moving out from each other and taking it more slow...and work on those three points with whatever professional help you need....and when you do move forward, do it with more planning and preparing...once Jane has showed you she can communicate and work through things with you in a mature, loving way...then it seems you could move back in together when you're ready.

A home shouldn't be a tension filled, stress filled place. If it is, something needs to change because living in an unhappy environment is unhealthy for you and your relationships. Your home needs to be somewhere you can be at peace and happy. At the moment, that doesn't sound like it's the case.

I wish you all the best, whatever you decide.
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:41 PM
LillDeb LillDeb is offline
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UPDATE

Thank you everyone for the support and input.

As I read, most of the consensus was for Hubby and I to move out. At this time, that is not something that is feasible as we just moved into this home that we're currently in. Both for financial reasons and our son's school. However, this is what I did do and for the past couple of weeks the results seem to be positive.

I let Jane read what I had posted. I let John read what I had posted. I let Hubby read what I had posted. They all read my post and all of the responses that were received.

Jane, being the one in our center, was emotionally rocked as she said she didn't realize this was how I had been feeling. She reaffirmed our decision to make such a move from one state to another. She indicated that we needed to set up a working way of communicating together. Her and I sat down to have a very much needed heart to heart conversation.

I am so very happy to announce that not only have we created a checklist of communication tasks that we both are responsible for, but even more excited to say that it is working. She is using the tools and I'm listening better.

No, things are not perfect nor do I expect them to be. Yes, things are looking up. Jane and I are talking and our guys are talking. Together, separately, and in all of our different directions.

FYI: I did take her out on a girls only date night!!! Beautiful. Hubby took her out on a date night as did John. All separate of one another. She has been the center of attention which is what I think she kinda needed simply to feel "seen" if you will.

Thank you to everyone for lending their ear and more importantly giving sound thoughts on the matter. It is appreciated more than words are able to express. We still have a lot of work and a long ways to go however the most important step has been taken. The agreement to work it through till we're where we all want to be. So...thank you.
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:51 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Glad to hear you worked out a doable communication tool and that things are improving!

Galagirl
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:51 PM
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Sounds like things are going a lot better. That's good to hear.
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