Do women really "have it easier"?

Ravenscroft

Banned
One of the recurring memes around polyamory is
It's a lot easier for women to find partners / dates / relationships
but that hasn't been my personal experience. Maybe it's a "quality" thing, or a reflection of differing gender roles. I haven't made a study of it, or even looked closely at how nonmons I knew handled this, so all I've got is first-hand.
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I'm not particularly good-looking; never have been. Nor rich or hunky or any of that stuff. Actually, I'm (in my mind at least) kinda skinny, 5'10, nearsighted, noticeably scoliotic (though physically fit), & my head/neck are proportionally a bit large (measurements upon request :D). So, my studliness was NOT a factor. ;)

On the other hand, we never had to hide our life. My household never "came out of the closet" because we were never in; Annie & I clarified this before we got involved, long before we lived together. It became widely known in some Twin Cities subcultures, not least being Wicca, science-fiction fandom, Renaissance Faire, Naturist, & SCA. (Matter of fact, she was Army, her dogtags state WICCA, & she wasn't shy about telling people we were bi & poly.)

We were also a nude household. Winter or summer, we preferred to be naked, & at one time had a sign inside the front door:
Please remember to dress before leaving.

My housemates (2-3 women) tended to have degrees of FWB, often sporadic in interaction, rather than "partners." From what they told me, most guys who showed interest were carting around one or two intentions:
  • wanting to get laid, & nonmon women are obviously "easy"
  • nonmon women are just biding their time until Mister Right arrives
Nothing wrong with getting laid, if that suits the mood. But most of the guys couldn't grasp that this might be an of-the-moment "once & done" exchange. (And some women get offended when it's hinted they have low standards. :eek:) The ones who fancied themselves a White Knight usually got hurt &/or angry when they couldn't swoop right into replacing me.

If there was a third snag, it's the guys who'd get involved with one of my housemates, then get the impression this was entree for sex with everyone, &/or thought they might simply move in with us.

We invited a few to spend a sort of "lockdown" weekend, participating in our day-to-day life. The high communication level proved daunting. As well, with our regular PDAs (nothing overtly sexual), guys were intimidated by the thought they'd get a public boner with all the attractive young women wandering past.

Meanwhile, my lovers were very happy with their lives so weren't shopping me as some sort of replacement for what they already had, whether solo or married or in their own network. They found the nudity liberating; exposure to the various body types seemed to quell their self-doubts about attractiveness. Annie wasn't shy about cupping a breast or patting a fanny in affection, & would complement a body feature she found admirable. When someone who was normally shy asked a housemate if it'd be rude to drag me off to the bedroom, that bluntness was welcomed.

I held myself to high standards, because I already had plenty of variety & opportunity in my life, & my partners generally were as demanding in their own right. Short-lived or one-time "mood" things weren't rare, but hardly common.

So overall, yeah, I suppose the women in my life had many more guys from whom to choose, but fewer who proved capable of making it past some rather low hurdles, where the women I attracted could more easily meet a higher standard.
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My impression is that most "poly" people are closed threes, or couples/individuals "looking," or open with autonomous outside relationships, so have probably never had opportunity to make up-close comparisons of how their various intimates actually handle things. Of the remaining minority, I'd really enjoy hearing their own experiences as to whether it really is any "easier" for women.
 
Ravenscroft - interesting post, as usual - but I think what you present represents a specialized lifestyle that would not apply to most suburban couples that have decided to transition to poly. And I'm not referring to the stereotypical unicorn hunting couple, but a couple who wants to each have their own other partners in an ethical fashion - "good poly". In that situation, the man would probably, in most cases, have the more difficult time of it. I happened to recall a passage from Sexyserb (replying to a wife) when I read your post, and thought it might offer a good example.

1) as has been mentioned here a number of times and you may hear it from others, married women are like "catnip" to men. I can personally attest to that but don't take my word for it. Do your own research. Or just go out to the hottest club you can find and see how many men walk away from you or become uninterested once they find out you are married but able to go out with other men. Then let your husband do the same exercise and compare the results. That means that you are most likely going to have many more opportunities in your new open lifestyle for any type of relationship you want, whether it is hook ups or meaningful emotional relationships. So ask your husband how he is going to feel given his stated desire for casual sex and swinging if he is sitting at home in a relatively short period of time struggling to connect with anyone while you are "dating" and have yourself a boyfriend.

Good topic - will be interested in other views. Now I'm off to pick up my wife at the airport - returning from her weekend trip to visit her ldr bf. But no complaints - it was my turn to do the out of town visit last weekend. And Happy Mom's Day to all the USA Moms! Al
 
I think that dating and relationships in general are easier for women than men. There's a few things that I've noticed over the years.

1. Women seem to be a bit more fluid/flexible when it comes to sexuality. Most guys I know don't want to seem gay, but women seem to have less of an aversion. I've been with literally TONS of girls who start out by claiming that they don't do same-sex play, but warmed up to me later.

2. Women in general seem to feel threatened by men in America. Whether it is the whole "me too" thing or just general deterioration of relations between males and females, it is more difficult for men to approach or become involved. Women end up taking the lead. If you're a more aggressive woman (like me) you can pretty much get what you want with men or women, singles or groups.

3. Women are more touch-oriented, which speeds bonding. Men often shy away from touch in the US (especially with other men), where women are often comfortable just touching in the course of daily life with no sexual intent. For me, since I'm more inclined toward women, it makes forming relationships and bonding intimately occur a lot faster.

I've noticed that in my life, I've never suffered from a lack of sex and I've seldom had to hunt for someone to have a relationship with. Of course, most of my life has been quantity rather than quality. My husband has had periods of singleness in his life, but not all that much. Again, quantity over quality. He's definitely not the hunkiest guy in the room, so I think a lot of it comes down to personality and attitude.

I can't really speak to the nudity aspect, but I think it was easier to be naked and comfortable in a triad....more a practical thing, really. In my family, obviously, there's a bunch of kids and so we are more in line with standard behavior in the US.
 
Hi Ravenscroft,

I’m confused — it sounds like you are presenting your situation as evidence that women don’t have it easier, but it reads as just the opposite? If I am understanding correctly, your partners/housemates all sound very happy and content with the type of poly that they have with you and each other.

Yes, I suppose the female members of your polycule had a harder time finding additional male partners, but it also sounds like they were looking for someone who would fit into their existing polycule, rather than someone to build a relationship with independently. Nothing wrong with that, but that adds a layer of complexity that I would expect to counterbalance any advantages they might see from being female. (My own, limited, sample of “real-life poly people” would probably confirm the notion that it is easier for women than for men. But, of course, that is a broad generalization. Within every situation there will be individuals whose personalities/lifestyles/relationship skills make them more or less able to find others who are compatible.)

You mention that occasionally you (as a collective) would invite an outsider to live with you for a weekend, but that they’d find the experience intimidating. Overall it sounds like the guys in these situations were still the ones struggling more than the women. They are the ones putting themselves out of their comfort zone to adopt a lifestyle that will please someone else and finding themselves unable to fit into the mold created for them. Your partners still seem to be the “winners” when it comes to their relarionship goals.

If I am misunderstanding your post, feel free to correct me! This is just how it sounds from your post — that your female partners are happy and satisfied and not really having a hard time at all.
 
We were also a nude household. Winter or summer, we preferred to be naked, & at one time had a sign inside the front door:

Please remember to dress before leaving.

Was there, by chance, a bowl of money under it? :)

Al
(Who's probably read "Stranger" a few too many times).
 
IME, women (in my life) have had much more opportunity (for a sexual partner), but markedly less for an ongoing relational partner.

(Part of the problem here is common slippery use of "partner" to indicate anything from "one-night stand" to "proven damn-the-torpedoes compatriot." :rolleyes:)
 
Nobody says women have access to more quality partners. It's just easier for women to pick up men, in general. A woman puts an ad on a dating site and gets hundreds of reponses. Men get maybe one or two.

The current poly climate is much different than what you describe from back in the day. Now you would be looked at as another meme - "Dude with a harem."

What you described doesn't sound much different than a couple trying to fit a third into their relationship. But at least they had guys to try out.

For awhile Cat and I had a non-sexual female housemate and we all went around naked. It was kind of freeing to be able to do that without sexual expectations. I do miss that.

Anyways, I have no problem finding sexual partners if I want them. Finding wonen into poly is a whole other thing.
 
I found it easier when I lived in a bigger town :rolleyes:

I don't make a lot of first moves these days because LDR is just too hard when you're just making ends meet without travel expenses. I'm probably passing a lot of potential friends by because logistics are in the too hard/broke basket.
 
... they were looking for someone who would fit into their existing polycule, rather than someone to build a relationship with independently. Nothing wrong with that, but that adds a layer of complexity that I would expect to counterbalance any advantages they might see from being female.
I think that was kind of the point.
Once you have standards for your relationships (and it needn't be fitting the polycule), it's not necessarily easier for women.
If it's the opposite... I don't know. Might as well be. I'm tempted to say as an example that there are much more women who would move with their guy to another country (state) for his career than the other way round, but I don't know if that's really true, or if the scale has reached balance already (in the USA).
 
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I see all these ‘women can have sex and/or relationships anytime they want’ and wonder what the hell I’m doing wrong. This has not been my experience at all.

My male partners have had more dates or partners than I do. They seem to find it easier to meet compatible people. My female partners also seem to find compatible people easier than I do.

I don’t know why this is. If I did, I’d try and fix it! I do wonder how other many other women roll their eyes at this trope as not being their experience either.
 
Was there, by chance, a bowl of money under it? :)

Al
(Who's probably read "Stranger" a few too many times).

:D That was my first thought as well.

The second was to ask if they had 501(c)(3) status as a branch of CAW.:rolleyes:
 
I see all these ‘women can have sex and/or relationships anytime they want’ and wonder what the hell I’m doing wrong. This has not been my experience at all.

My male partners have had more dates or partners than I do. They seem to find it easier to meet compatible people. My female partners also seem to find compatible people easier than I do.

I don’t know why this is. If I did, I’d try and fix it! I do wonder how other many other women roll their eyes at this trope as not being their experience either.

I found it more difficult, too. Part of it, I think is personality for me... I am outgoing with people I know at least casually, but more reserved with new people. And, I dislike online dating...I find it draining.

It was easy to find men who wanted sex but not men who wanted a relationship with a partnered woman. I had the most difficulty finding female partners.

It's much easier to find both when I'm single.
 
It definitely isn't easy for me to find partners, whether purely sexual or relationship. For that matter, it isn't particularly easy for me to find friends, so my difficulty is likely just me.

On the other hand, I see a lot of women talking about getting tons of messages on dating sites. I generally get 2-4 messages a week across all the sites that I'm on, and the vast majority of those are nothing more than "Hi" with an occasional "How are you" thrown in. I don't answer those; I need more to go on than that if I'm going to have a conversation with someone. The low number of messages I receive doesn't have anything to do with my personality; they don't *know* my personality when they're sending a first message. They only have my profile to go by, and my profiles are relatively well-written and make me seem a lot less awkward than I can be in person.

I also tend to have fairly high standards for men I'll reply to or interact with, I go through phases (like I am now) where I don't trust anyone and so don't feel like wasting time trying to meet people, and I only date men. So all of those probably play a role as well.
 
My guess is that love is hard to find in general. For both men and women. With certain exceptions. But I do have to note that I've seen a lot of men on this forum who are complaining that their wife gets to go out and date and have fun all the time, while they (the husband) get stuck at home, unable to find anyone. Is that because men are more likely to complain about that sort of thing? I don't know. And my perspective is clouded by the experience I had when I tried OKCupid. I had no luck there, and eventually gave up.

I have had two partners in my life. I found both when I wasn't looking. You can draw your own conclusions.
 
Now you would be looked at as another meme - "Dude with a harem."
Okay, Vince, it's YOUR fault for another story. :p

We were launching a housewarming party. I had just pulled a tray of bacon-wrapped water chestnuts from the broiler, in time to hear our friend Rick mention "Tony's harem."

I stepped in, & said "nah -- it's more like I'm their pool boy" & went back to set up the next tray.

My (very gay) friend Steve guffawed, followed by my two lovers from southern California, who then had to explain it to everyone else.

:D
 
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...We were launching a housewarming party. I had just pulled a tray of bacon-wrapped water chestnuts from the broiler...

:D

I hope you weren't naked when dealing with the bacon. Unless you like pain, which is entirely possible.
 
I found it more difficult, too. Part of it, I think is personality for me... I am outgoing with people I know at least casually, but more reserved with new people. And, I dislike online dating...I find it draining.

It was easy to find men who wanted sex but not men who wanted a relationship with a partnered woman. I had the most difficulty finding female partners.

It's much easier to find both when I'm single.

These have been my experiences as well. Sure, I could be rolling in easy sex, if that's what I wanted. But what I want is a loving, long-term, committed relationship with another femme person, and it seems like I might as well ask for the moon at this point.
 
I hope you weren't naked when dealing with the bacon.
Actually, not -- y'know, housewarming party, middle of the afternoon, doors open to whoever... :rolleyes:

But in any case there's this new high-tech invention which might not yet have made it to your region, called an apron. ;)

(And now we even have these cutting-edge accessories, which are kinda like mittens, used to take hot stuff from the oven, but nobody's come up with a good name for them yet. :D)
 
...But in any case there's this new high-tech invention which might not yet have made it to your region, called an apron. ;)

Dude claims that he is "not naked" when he is wearing socks, so I think wearing an apron must exclude you from the "naked" category as well!:p

I'm voting for "naked baconing" to be included as an event in the upcoming "Extreme Cooking Olympics":eek: (which I will gladly watch from a safe distance - as I have been banned from all kitchens in perpetuity...:cool:)
 
FWIW, some of my housemates were in the habit of cooking/baking topless, & they thought I was a bit silly for my preference to be clothed. But Annie got herself a small scar on her belly while pan-frying fish, due to the bad habit of flipping stuff forward rather than back. :rolleyes:
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Anyway, if everyone's done derailing the thread :p I'll be glad to see more input of personal experience & direct observation.

The thesis is that in general women might "have it easier" in getting attention, but not so much in starting a relationship (particularly in a nonmon context).**

I bring this up in order to reassure males that their partner "getting all the attention" seems to be common, & is not a reflection upon what their own experience will be, much less any "success/failure" thinking. More like:
  • my partners' (male) lovers tended to wander off when they realized they weren't going to become "their man" (mono)
  • my (female) lovers tended to enjoy visiting & hanging out; Annie asked two to be godmothers for our kids
Conversely, women -- particularly those who show up here having had few (if any) intimate relationships previous to their present husband/boyfriend/etc. -- probably NEED to settle themselves down, & not get all twitterpated just because some cute (or at least not-entirely-disgusting) New Boy smiled at her in the hallway after first-period algebra. :rolleyes:

Men are exceedingly simple creatures, really, particularly in a Monogamist context, & mostly want to
  1. get laid
  2. make you feel obligated to do it again, & again
  3. but be a "cool chick" & not have your own needs/expectations
  4. cut loose any other partners you might have
  5. ...except a woman, especially if she's hot :rolleyes:
IMO, most guys are decent about curbing their fantasies, but ONLY IF the woman doesn't indulge herself in giggly-girly airheadedness, instead stepping up to adulthood, setting & enforcing sane boundaries.
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Overall, the "easier" meme doesn't hold water well.

If a woman just wants to "get her needs met" & not be troubled by any sort of ongoing relationship, then YEAH it's gonna be "easier" than for a male partner seeking similar. Same for flirtations at work or at a club -- though IME more women really need to figure out that a guy who flirts is likely either a creeeepy stalker who has targeted her :eek: or he acts that way with just about any woman he encounters (review Goal #1, above).

But ruling out one-night stands & serial monogamy (& as well the dangling of the "bi-curious" wife as FMF triad bait), my observation is that it's NOT more difficult for men than for women to establish ongoing nonmon relationships, & in my experience can be somewhat easier/more likely.
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** -- Yes, the underlying assumption is that most people tend toward hetero & looking to snag someone of the "opposite" sex, & as well dyad-oriented. That does seem to cover MANY people, though, & is to a degree generalizable; if it's an issue, certainly someone can make it better.
 
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