Don't really know what I'm doing...

TravelGuy25

New member
I'll try to explain my situation as best as I can and would love if someone could give me advice, reassurance, or anything at all. Have no one to talk to other than the girl in question. This may be long so I apologize in advance.

I am a 22 year old male who has made the decision to ditch my life and go backpacking, travel, see the world and had to leave a relationship for me to be committed to it (this is a non-issue). I have zero interest in a relationship and have told myself this. In that year I have made no attempt at "picking up girls", mostly because I am bad at it.

It has been a year since I left my past relationship and I have met a friend of a friend, 24 year old female, who is a traveler and has traveled. We are so alike it is scary. We start talking about travel at first, and then get into more sensitive issues - religion, life, goals - and surprisingly we don't disagree in the slightest. Never had that before. This girl is engaged to be married in 6 months and so as we progress in our topics of discussion I never sway towards anything sexual. As time passes though we both start to realize some of the things that we are doing aren't exactly in the "lets talk as friends" area.

We talk until 3 and 4 in the morning for a week straight. We watch shows together and text during. We laugh at each other's bad jokes and I genuinely start to enjoy talking to this girl. Eventually the topic comes up of her relationship. They are both travelers and have been separated for months at a time with each other in different parts of the world. She has been with another guy while traveling in the UK and explained that this guy was madly in love with her but she only wanted the sex. Her fiancée actually flew from south america to meet her in the UK to propose and that was when the relationship in the UK ended and they moved back home.

I start to think this is odd of course but I consider myself very understanding and I don't judge her. Eventually she comes out with that her fiancee has actually asked her to go sleep with another man if he cant satisfy her enough. I think she told me this in order to get the conversation going in this direction but I still hold reservations. I keep telling myself "this girl is about to be married, I'm not that guy".

We eventually hang out for coffee before meeting up with friends at a bar. It's great. Spending time with her is fantastic. The night at the bar is awkward but good. Everyone leaves around 1am and me and her sit and talk until we get kicked out of the bar for it to close up a few hours later.

We talk more and make plans to hang out at my place and watch our favourite show we love to make fun off. That night we sleep in the same bed. She is throwing signal after signal after me but I don't want to bite. I mean I do, but I don't want to be that guy. Nothing happens that night and she leaves in the morning.

That day we talk, via text, and it comes out she desperately wanted me to make a move. So now it's on. I am so infatuated with this girl at this point I just push the issues aside and we begin to talk sexually. We really open up about the idea of having a "friends with benefits" relationship and communication is great. She explains her relationship is very different and she needs this. I don't want a relationship and she needs casual sex. So, the agreement is formed and we have to wait a week before meeting up.

We still talk excessively, every day for hours. The night comes and we cant keep our hands off each other long. It was awkward at first but the sex was fantastic. However, I could tell she was confused. As was I. We didn't go into specifics of "what do we do after sex, during sex?". We hold each other, hold hands. Lock eyes and kiss each other for hours, falling asleep for moments of time and waking up lock eyed again and kiss more. We begin to talk more open about feelings. She goes back and forth from telling me I make her feel like she is 15 again and she is nervous every time she sees me complete with butterflies and word fumbling to re assuring that its just sexual.

She went out drinking last night and it seemed as if she was trying to gauge my jealousy of another guy hitting on her at the bar. I am a little jealous but I've never been the jealous type so I don't really bite. It seems to bother her but she brushes it off quick and I get the feeling the goes back and forth between states of feelings beyond sexual towards me and the hard ass, more mature girl looking for sex.

I'm not really sure what to do. We are spending the day together this Sunday to watch movies and just relax for a day together. I can't wait. But is that right? This seems more like a love affair. Is this a normal thing?

The hard thing about it is I'll be out of the country by the end of the year, and so will she. I've turned down multiple relationship opportunities with beautiful women but this one is different. If she was single I have no doubt we would be together. Right now in "our agreement", it feels like we are in a secret cocoon that is starting to change and we both have one hand holding it down and another pulling it open.

I need advice.
 
*Sigh,* I was actually holding my breath when I read your post hoping that you would still say you never slept with her... *sigh*.... ah well, now you've gone and cheated. now what.

Well, for starters I will say what I always say and that is to do a tag search for "cheating" and you will see what hardships people go through as cheaters and being cheated on... even people that are the ones who cheat because the one that they were with cheated.

To me cheating is not ever an option, regardless of how much someone is dying to fuck, and says that their partner won't mind. To me, the go ahead comes from the partner, not the person I would want to sleep with. From experience I have learned that sex without full consent from all involved is just not worth it for the very reasons you are now experiencing. It's all hot and heavy and awesome during and then all hell sets in and people rise above hormones and suddenly "see" properly.

By how she is acting, she thinks she has fucked up. The man she is engaged to would not of liked what she did, by her thoughts and gut feeling. I would wonder if she told him or mentioned that you and her are getting to that point. I would wonder how much honesty she has had with him and also you for that matter... you only have her word after all as it seems you didn't contact him in advance....

She promised herself to another man. Whether he said to her or not that she should go and do whatever still doesn't indicate that he thought she would or that they set up some kind of way of dealing with that.... its all just words by the sounds of it. Or has she done this before.

It sounds like what usually happens happened.... sex changes EVERYTHING. I have never known in my own life for this to ever be different from this statement.

I have friends that would argue that point as they can fuck whomever and be kinda *meh, that was good* and move on... granted these experiences are more when they go to organized sex parties (swinging) or on dates with friends with benefits where EVERYONE knows what the nature of the relationship is, including their partners. I can see how sex wouldn't change everything when there is honesty and consideration, respect and foresight. It seems you two did not have any of this before having sex.

Where it does change everything for me is emotionally. Once its done, its done. There is no going back from those emotions. Granted it is different for others though. Hence the reason I pick very well when sex will happen with another.

These two things; everything not being above board and the emotions involved mean that nine times out of ten, sex changes everything. That is my point of view anyway.

It sounds like you learned something there.... not anything new really, not that I want to make light of it, but at 41, I have seen this similar situation played out many times for me and others, from the time I had my first experience until now... the idea is to LEARN from it. You were on the right track and then fell off of it as far as I'm concerned. Now its time to get back on with integrity and in humbleness. Stand up and apologize to this man and her and start doing what it is that will make you confident and honourable again. That doesn't mean that you have to end it with her, just be more mindful of what you want and of what is respectful to them.

I think if I were in your position now you could go a few ways; say good bye and leave her alone would be the first option. Secondly, discuss with her what she means to you and what you mean to her and then ask her to tell her fiance... then I would arrange to talk to him also. Maybe you could both tell him together. Then work towards an open and honest relationship with full disclosure and communication with him added. Thirdly, tell him and then chalk this up to experience. Tell him that you intend to keep your distance and not touch her again.

Good luck:)
 
*sigh*.... ah well, now you've gone and cheated. now what.
Um...where'd that get said anywhere in there? I don't think he mentioned verifying the claim directly with the fiancee...but if he has no reason not to trust the girl about the situation, I don't see how that begets cheating.


I need advice.
What I'm unclear on here TG is what you need advice on?! What part is the issue that you want advice for...there's a bunch of background, but I don't understand the question.

The only one I can kind of find is that you had a FWB situation that you think is maybe turning into something that contains more emotional investment?
Are you concerned about the fiancee knowing or finding out? Letting go of her when it comes time to leave?

Can you clarify what your consternation is?

ETA: While we're at it, can you include in the background where you, her, and the fiancee are from, maybe down to a national level. I'm a little confused between UK, South America and Bar.
 
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Eventually she comes out with that her fiancee has actually asked her to go sleep with another man if he cant satisfy her enough. I think she told me this in order to get the conversation going in this direction but I still hold reservations. I keep telling myself "this girl is about to be married, I'm not that guy".
........
That day we talk, via text, and it comes out she desperately wanted me to make a move. So now it's on. I am so infatuated with this girl at this point I just push the issues aside and we begin to talk sexually. We really open up about the idea of having a "friends with benefits" relationship and communication is great. She explains her relationship is very different and she needs this. I don't want a relationship and she needs casual sex. So, the agreement is formed and we have to wait a week before meeting up.

We still talk excessively, every day for hours. The night comes and we cant keep our hands off each other long. It was awkward at first but the sex was fantastic. However, I could tell she was confused. As was I. We didn't go into specifics of "what do we do after sex, during sex?".
This seems more like a love affair.
I cut out as much as I could that would indicate there was no "talking to the fiance," about this actually situation II. Not that they didn't, I am totally assuming because of the reaction he said she had.
 
If the advice you're looking for is what to do next I think that making sure the fiancee knows what is happening between you and this girl is a good place to start. If he is on board with her having a FWB relationship then I wish you every happiness if he isn't it's probably best if you back off and let them work out their issues before becomming further entangled.
 
I guess I'm just not sure what to do. The man that she is marrying... I have never met, nor do I know anything about really. I'm going back in forth between not caring because I don't actually want a relationship anyways and being a guy who has intentions to fuck up this marriage.

I mean, I consider myself to be a very humble, well-understanding and honest guy. If I was in a relationship and found my partner to have been with another person I would end the relationship right away. But on the other hand I see the benefits of having a poly relationship. Although, she doesn't exactly have this, she has led me to believe this.

I have this fear that if i make an effort to go to her partner that not only will our relationship come crashing down but so will theirs.

So the advice that I am actually seeking would be...

should I keep doing what I am doing, being honest with this girl as I go... or end it before the emotions get the better of us...

I am so confused.
 
She seems to have said that her fiance has given her the green light for casual sex. I don't think you need to contact her fiance... why? She keeps saying she wants/needs casual sex, yet it sounds like she feels more than that toward you, wants to get you jealous, etc. But I'm not really understanding what the problem is here.
 
I'm hearing that a green light for casual sex has been given, but you both seem WAY beyond that.

Hearing you describe her ... you sound like a man in love!

You need a sit down with this girl to talk about what is really going on, and what EXACTLY is the nature of the agreement between her and her fiancé. Only then can you really figure out if you're breaking rules and where to go from there.
 
I just wanted to clarify what I said; my suggestion would be to ask HER to talk to him about you as you seem to be in deeper than casual sexy time together... she seems to be wanting a relationship with you if she is trying to get you jealous. If you don't want a relationship and it was just fucking to you, then I think it best to tell her that and move on no? Otherwise sitting down with her, finding out what she wants and then going to him with it all would be my suggestion.... sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough before, so I'm hoping a recap will help some how.

Basically there are three options. As I said before; say good bye, say good bye and suggest she talk to her man about how she could get connected to her casual fucks and the last being to work on a relationship that is above ground.:confused: make sense?
 
I'm a little leary of the green light that was given. The context of his statement makes all the difference in the world. I said the exact same thing to my ex wife before we were married but it was not a healthy statement. I said it because I was frustrated in not getting sex one night and tried to manipulate her by saying she could have sex with guys who "actually did turn her on". I would talk to the fiance either on the phone or in person. Maybe I'm not trusting but I have seen and perpetrated plenty of dishonesty over the years. Leave nothing to chance. Get clarification. If she is hesitant then you likely have your answer.
 
I'm wondering if this woman is ready for marriage to this guy. By her actions with you and at the bar later, it sounds to me like she agreed because this guy flew across the world to ask her and she was caught up in the romance of it all and/or felt obliged to say yes... it doesn't sound like she is ready for that kind of commitment and has some oats to sow still first. Maybe that is why fiance said to go do whatever as she has promised herself to him later? I dunno.... there is something kind of controlling in that or something. Something in this situation is not sitting right with me. Don't know what it is.
 
I've talked with her about it again and she has stressed that it I shouldn't worry, it is her decision and if she screws up her yet-to-be marriage it will be because of her actions.

I still have this remorse every time she leaves. I know that the smart thing would be to end it right now but I just can't bring myself to. It is just full blown cheating.

He doesn't know.
 
Please read my friend

I've talked with her about it again and she has stressed that it I shouldn't worry, it is her decision and if she screws up her yet-to-be marriage it will be because of her actions.

I still have this remorse every time she leaves. I know that the smart thing would be to end it right now but I just can't bring myself to. It is just full blown cheating.

He doesn't know.

I've cut this out of another thread because it directly relates to the damage you are doing to yourself...I've been there and know what I am talking about. The message is within this comment...it's not meant to be personal but it does hold truth. The original thread deals with a woman who is knowingly cheating with a married man who's wife has asked her to step back. Just because a partner might know about the affair deosn't make it anything more than an cheating if all partners can't find health within the dynamic or give consent. In your case this other man..a person with a heart just like yours doesn't know yet.

"Talk about looking after number one....sorry, I obviously find the bonds of marriage way more sacred than this woman or any other person that would behave this way. I was cheating with a married woman and I will likely always carry that burden with me...I hurt another person to get what "I needed".....bullshit, I was selfish and not thinking about anything beyond my own childish desires....to get whatever I want in whatever way I could. I'd like to go back in time and kick the shit out of myself for the damage I did. I guess each of us as individuals need to grow up the hard way sometimes. Perhaps when this woman gets a taste of her own bullshit medicine she'll have a better appreciation of how it feels to be betrayed. Sorry to rant but after what I have seen I want to shake the shit out of anyone who thinks thier "needs" are more important than any other persons. If people were truly coming from a place of "giving more is getting more" then they would actually be giving more and not taking for themselves at the expence of another human being's happiness. I live in a world where I am responsible for the happiness of others and if that requires sacrifice within reason than so be it.

This woman is a taker IMO. Maybe she should go out and find something for herself that does not erode the happiness of another. "



Find the strength to get out before it gets worse. If she will do this to her fiance she will do this to anyone. She doesn't love her fiance...she disrespects him.

Take care
Mono
 
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I've cut this out of another thread because it directly relates to the damage you are doing to yourself...I've been there and know what I am talking about. The message is within this comment...it's not meant to be personal but it does hold truth. The original thread deals with a woman who is knowingly cheating with a married man who's wife has asked her to step back. Just because a partner might know about the affair deosn't make it anything more than an cheating if all partners can't find health within the dynamic or give consent. In your case this other man..a person with a heart just like yours doesn't know yet.

"Talk about looking after number one....sorry, I obviously find the bonds of marriage way more sacred than this woman or any other person that would behave this way. I was cheating with a married woman and I will likely always carry that burden with me...I hurt another person to get what "I needed".....bullshit, I was selfish and not thinking about anything beyond my own childish desires....to get whatever I want in whatever way I could. I'd like to go back in time and kick the shit out of myself for the damage I did. I guess each of us as individuals need to grow up the hard way sometimes. Perhaps when this woman gets a taste of her own bullshit medicine she'll have a better appreciation of how it feels to be betrayed. Sorry to rant but after what I have seen I want to shake the shit out of anyone who thinks thier "needs" are more important than any other persons. If people were truly coming from a place of "giving more is getting more" then they would actually be giving more and not taking for themselves at the expence of another human being's happiness. I live in a world where I am responsible for the happiness of others and if that requires sacrifice within reason than so be it.

This woman is a taker IMO. Maybe she should go out and find something for herself that does not erode the happiness of another. "



Find the strength to get out before it gets worse. If she will do this to her fiance she will do this to anyone. She doesn't love her fiance...she disrespects him.

Take care
Mono

Thank you for taking the time to find that. Appreciate it.

I understand what you are saying. I think I will be ending this soon but I would like to continue this discussion just a little further.

If the goal in a relationship such as this is to receive sex for both parties and as you have stated, if she isn't going to cheat with me she is going to cheat with someone, is it that wrong to be the guy in the middle? I know that sounds horrible, but is it so wrong to think selfishly in the fact that I am her outlet of the things the she may or may not think is right?
 
If the goal in a relationship such as this is to receive sex for both parties and as you have stated, if she isn't going to cheat with me she is going to cheat with someone, is it that wrong to be the guy in the middle? I know that sounds horrible, but is it so wrong to think selfishly in the fact that I am her outlet of the things the she may or may not think is right?


I'm glad to discuss this further and also happy you didn't take offence :)


The first part of this is accepting that your actions are actually hurting another human being. Shitty behaviour is likely to continue by this woman if what you are saying is true; she will find someone else to have sex with.

If I was going to rob a bank and asked you to be my getaway driver would you do it even though you knew it was wrong simply because someone else was going to do it and get a cut anyway? Or would you still look at the fact that those bank employees (who don't own the money I am stealing) are still going to be traumatized and hurt by my shitty behaviour?

Would your conscience and sense of self worth not be more intact if you walked away from that temporary gain and did not take on the responsibility of hurting people indirectly?

What she is offering is temporary sex. That's it....sex with the potential to explode in your face (not in a good way). Remember, this woman is untrustworthy...if you are just looking to get off I can understand how you could use her body to help with that but it sounds like you have real emotions for her. Even if she wasn't engaged would you trust a person who has this type of outlook?


Why not find some one who can provide you with the physical side of relationships who is actually capable of having a healthy one? You deserve better..just as her fiance does.

Treat others the way you want to be treated....would you want some one fucking your fiance behind your back?
 
Treat others the way you want to be treated....would you want some one fucking your fiance behind your back?

Exactly what I was thinking. If you don't want it done to you, don't do it to someone else.
 
My wife and I are new to the concept of poly. She is mono and I am recently identifying as poly. If the fiance is mono and this girl is poly it still seems there needs to be good communication between her and her fiance. At least I am not doing anything I feel my wife is uncomfortable about.

What is she saying is the result of everything with respect to her fiance?
 
I feel bad for you, or that's not quite right. I feel compassion.

Whatever the outcome of this situation is, what struck me about your original post is this:

I think she told me this in order to get the conversation going in this direction but I still hold reservations.

She is throwing signal after signal after me but I don't want to bite.

That day we talk, via text, and it comes out she desperately wanted me to make a move.

She goes back and forth from telling me I make her feel like she is 15 again and she is nervous every time she sees me complete with butterflies and word fumbling to re assuring that its just sexual.

She went out drinking last night and it seemed as if she was trying to gauge my jealousy of another guy hitting on her at the bar. I am a little jealous but I've never been the jealous type so I don't really bite. It seems to bother her but she brushes it off quick and I get the feeling the goes back and forth between states of feelings beyond sexual towards me and the hard ass, more mature girl looking for sex.

One thing she is not, my friend, is mature. There is nothing mature about her behavior. She is demonstrating the exact opposite behavior to maturity; manipulation. She is in fact so afraid of taking responsibility over her own life and actions that she has to resort to constantly pushing other people to behave in the way she would like them to.

What would a mature person have done in this situation?
Communicate openly about her needs and wants with EVERYONE involved.

The harm has already been done; she has established a dishonest, manipulative and irresponsible pattern of communication in this relationship and after initial resentment, you have allowed yourself to be swept of your feet and are now actively supporting and enabling that behavior. You are not helping her become the best person she can be, but are allowing her to function at her lowest and basest level. This is not love, this is giving up.

That being said, I think there is a way out of it, but that way involves both of you fessing up to what you have done, accepting the repercussions, and especially for you to stop enabling her cheating. If you love her, you will not allow her to hurt herself and others in this manner.

As to your question of does being the man in the middle make you as guilty as she is, a quote from a Vietnamese Buddhist monk and peace activist Thich Nhat Hanh came immediately to my mind. I'll paraphrase the idea if not the exact words on what he has to say on ethical sexuality;

"I accept my responsibility for the correct use of the gift of sexuality. I promise to conduct myself sexually in a manner that is nonviolent, generous, honest and free from addictions."

Lots of love.
 
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