Poly-Dating: How to meet like-minded people

1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships - I am, I suppose, technically a 'secondary' right now, but do not feel like I am less valued for that.

Some people prefer the hierarchical model, others prefer to have their relationships flow naturally without the need of labels.

There are people who actually prefer the role of secondary, not wanting the responsibility (for lack of better term) of being someone's primary partner, due to time constraints, emotional capacity, etc. For others, it's a matter of sharing finances and child-rearing responsibility with one person, which requires that relationship to be nurtured and maintained in a way that other "secondary" relationships don't require.

Other people feel that hierarchy is inherently wrong, that it treats secondaries as having fewer rights as primaries. As I'm not on this side of things, I can't recall all the "reasons" but since you seem to be on this side, I don't think I need to make its case :)

2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?

There are no hard-and-fast rules dictating your responsibility as a secondary, it's subjective and depends on the particular circumstances. You'll have to negotiate your "rights and responsibilities" with each partner to determine if you're compatible as a couple.

If you see yourself in a secondary position, it's my opinion that you don't have to dance around the primary relationship. That relationship is the sole responsibility of the people in it. We all have enough to deal with in our lives without taking on other people's battles.

You always have the right to speak up for yourself and communicate to your partner whenever your needs are not being met. That being said, your partner doesn't have the responsibility to change his/her behavior in order to meet your needs. I'm not sure anyone has the right to "make demands" in any relationship, but to the extent that they do, you have just as many of those rights as anyone.

3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing? My current situation is that I am dating a guy who is poly and am hopeful about starting a relationship with a guy who, as far as I know, is not poly, but is fairly open minded. Should I just go ahead and see how he feels about polyamory?

This is something I struggle with too. I generally lay it out on the table with any potential partner. There are surprisingly many people who are ok with the concept of "open relationships" and just haven't done the cognitive work to discover a term for it. Another approach is to start off "just dating" and make it clear that you're "dating other people." Then if things start to get serious, you can have "the talk."
 
Welcome Sunlover !
Doing your homework in advance eh. Not bad thinking :)

1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships - I am, I suppose, technically a 'secondary' right now, but do not feel like I am less valued for that.

Ummm - there's a lot of debate - sometimes heated - on this whole terminology. I'd suggest you just don't take it too literally. It's useful for describing the role that people play in each other's lives at a given moment - but little more.
But in general just keep in mind how roles unfold in anything when one person steps into any existing group or whatever. You're invited, you're wanted and the whole objective will be to function as a team. But that doesn't happen instantly. You have to figure out where things are at now, where they are trying to go, where you can best fit in and what you can contribute. It will evolve over time. No two situations are identical.
Does that help ?


2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?

You shouldn't "dance" around anything, but neither push any particular agenda too fast. Again the comment about evolution. I think the biggest responsibility we all have is to be open and clear about what feels right to us and what doesn't. And as this comes out - the "whys" attached to them have to be in place at the same time. Be careful of constructing any particular, rigid vision or model. Better to be open and flexible and connect with what feels right and makes logical sense.

3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing?

I think it's best at first to just make it clear that you ARE aware that monogamy is not the only - or even best - way for relationships to grow and prosper. Nuff said until more detail is requested :)

GS
 
perhaps a search on here will bring you to at least a half dozen links? We have talked about this a lot... it might be helpful to read a bit on what is on here.
 
I always cringe at polyamory "is not about this" and "is about that."
Fair enough. My point was rather that I do have objections when it comes to force things like that. Not specifically polyamory, but anything that has to do and rests upon love, affection and other emotions. As for myself I usually don't go out with the intention of falling in love with someone (and I mean not just to look for someone who looks cute and sexy, but to really find a partner). Many people may do that, and maybe for some it works out (as Ariakas says "Different mentality"), but from what I experienced so far, and not only myself, but also all the people I know, it hardly ever works that way.

It is another thing, like you say, SchrodingersCat, that people get hurt quickly if their partner finds someone new, even though their partner may never consider to reject them for the new acquaintance. This is a question of trust and that's not only the trust you put into your partner, but the assurance your partner can give you so you are able to put that trust into her/him in the first place. And this needs to be done in any relationship if you want it to last, be it poly or mono. And I think what matters a lot is how you approach these things. Of course it's insensitive to just ask your partner if your friend could simply "join" into your relationship, because you feel affection for her/him as well and want to keep both. Instead I think it's healthy to always be aware of the fact that people do fall in love and can't do anything against that - and to talk about this possibility. It's important to give security to your partner, but not to give promises that can't be kept. If this is always done conscientiously on both sides a new acquaintance is much less likely to be regarded as a threat.

I don't plan to just hang out and wait for someone to fall into my life...
That's exactly my point: you can't plan that ;)

Well, but I just say: don't try to force it. That's all. And good luck to you, Uluz46901! :)
 
If you want to see fish, your best best is to get close to water....

Joining a local poly group gets you out and meeting others who do not restrict themselves to the monogamous relationship style. Expecting to meet a poly person by magic out there in the world... well, let's just say that it lessens your odds, in my opinion.
 
This question seems a bit strange to me, for it sounds like "I want to find someone I can fall in love with". It's not unusual though, as many people believe they could find love by asking others for it - through lonely hearts ads and the like. Things like that may work sometimes or at least you may find new friends, but it doesn't guarantee you to find love. (I'd even say it's highly unlikely if you try to force things that way.)

But polyamory is not about "hey let's look for a third partner and see how that feels". It's rather that you admit to yourself and the ones you love that there is more than one love in your life after you found someone new.

I don't think I agree with this. Dating sites certainly don't guarantee that you will fall in love with someone. But it is a place to start dating. Monos do it all the time.

And as far as poly being something you learn after you found someone, I don't really agree with that either. I think it is a quality of having the capacity* to love more than one. The notion that one might date after this discovery seems reasonable to me.
 
If you want to see fish, your best best is to get close to water....

Well put, I think Tacit (I can never remember his real name), the guy who writes xeromag, has said something like "surround yourself by what you are looking for"...it increases your odds....

same theory when you are single, if you like girls, hanging out in a bar with a bunch of guys isn't gonna get you anything...
 
If you see yourself in a secondary position, it's my opinion that you don't have to dance around the primary relationship. That relationship is the sole responsibility of the people in it. We all have enough to deal with in our lives without taking on other people's battles.

With all respect, it's my feeling that I since I care very much about my lover then I am obligated to care about something that makes her very happy: her primary relationship. By extension, I care about her husband (he makes that easy since he's a gentle and generous man).

I don't dance around the primary couple in the sense that a puppet dances, but I do care about their marriage. I care a lot. When she was not comfortable with one of his paramours I talked a lot to her about it, trying to be a loving, stabilizing influence. In that sense I am very much concerned with the primary relationship.
 
I don't dance around the primary couple in the sense that a puppet dances, but I do care about their marriage. I care a lot. When she was not comfortable with one of his paramours I talked a lot to her about it, trying to be a loving, stabilizing influence. In that sense I am very much concerned with the primary relationship.

This brings to mind this past Tuesday night. Possibility had some issues he needed to work out in his core relationships so had to cancel our weekly get together so he could take care of things at home.

At first I was upset about this, feeling as though I didn't count. I had time to think on it that night & realized what I was feeling wasn't right. Sure I have a right (right doesn't feel like the right word but I'm at a loss as to what is the right word) to some of his time BUT his core relationships come first ALWAYS. If the situation were reversed I'm sure he'd be a little upset about not being able to see me but he would understand that my core relationship comes first before anyone else other than my kids. In fact when Breathes and I closed our relationship last year Possibility was VERY understanding and supportive.

His whole family, and mine, have gotten together for picnics, I've take one kid or the other over there to help me feed the cats when they were on vacation. They all like me & I like all of them. My guys even play D&D together on Friday nights. There are so many possibilities out there that I'm finding it really hard to even remember what my life was like when I was monogamous!

2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?

All that to say that you have a right to your feelings. Talk to him about it. Ask HIM if he has a preferred way to voice your thoughts and feelings. Tell him you're comfort zone. Discuss his comfort zones AND his wife's as well.

He isn't a mind reader, really. He won't know you want something particular unless you tell him. So speak up, the worst he can say is 'no', right?
 
Well put, I think Tacit (I can never remember his real name), the guy who writes xeromag, has said something like "surround yourself by what you are looking for"...it increases your odds....

same theory when you are single, if you like girls, hanging out in a bar with a bunch of guys isn't gonna get you anything...

I believe his name is Franklin :).

http://www.xeromag.com for any interested parties who HAVEN'T heard of it yet, lol, since I recommend it ALL the time!
 
Thanks very much, all good advice! She is not his wife, however, and I am not sure if he identifies the relationship as "primary" or if that was just her. Something else to be talked about! If there is one thing I have picked up on in the last few months it is that communication is key. I am learning to communicate honestly - starting by being honest with myself and giving myself 'permission' to assess my own emotions and feelings.

I guess what I am asking is: how do I decide whether my "needs" are indeed valid needs, or just selfish "wants"? :confused:

I do care about his 'primary' and feel terrible, as there are times when she is obviously uncomfortable with my and his relationship (though she self identifies as poly). We have discussed it and he argued that guilt was a bad reason to back out of our relationship, since a) it was their relationship issue, not mine and b) if it wasn't me, it would be the next person who he was interested in starting a relationship with.

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, it is coming from a very muddled mind! Any advice/thoughts/wisdom would be much appreciated.
 
thanks, he also has a blog that is seperate, I find it more interesting...simply because xeromag site is obviously so outdated. Has fantastic info though.

Its also interesting to reading his ongoing views of poly :)
 
Primary / secondary

1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships

They're categories, and yes they're hierarchical. They do serve as a useful shorthand for describing dynamics to people, but they're just categories, and no one needs to use labels that they don't like.

2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?

This is where categories fail, or may be confusing. That dance is part of your dynamic with your partner and the other relationship, and some people who have a relationship described as secondary don't expect much in the way of being able to make demands outside of very basic scheduling and safety needs, whereas others have relationships that contain a lot more negotiation. It depends on the dynamic, not on the label.

3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing? My current situation is that I am dating a guy who is poly and am hopeful about starting a relationship with a guy who, as far as I know, is not poly, but is fairly open minded. Should I just go ahead and see how he feels about polyamory?

I'd say that you need to be really clear with yourself what your position on polyamory is. Is it something that you're doing now but would be open to not doing in the future? Is polyamory the only kind of relationship you would ever consider? Would you ever be polyfi-? One needs to be really clear about that kind of stuff before talking about it with a potential new partner. If you are clear, the best way to introduce it is probably to talk about your current situation in conversation and let the discussion go where it goes.
 
0. Welcome!!!
1. I echo everyone else.
2. http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html My thoughts have already been typed neatly by someone else! I love it when that happens.
3. My solution to this conundrum has been to be out of the closet completely in my social life (everywhere but work, and I'm working on it, actually). No one gets close enough to want to date me without knowing what I'm doing and who with. Your solution is up to you!
 
Expecting to meet a poly person by magic out there in the world... well, let's just say that it lessens your odds, in my opinion.
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.

I don't think I agree with this. Dating sites certainly don't guarantee that you will fall in love with someone. But it is a place to start dating. Monos do it all the time.
Yes, that's what I said before (twice) ;)

And as far as poly being something you learn after you found someone, I don't really agree with that either. I think it is a quality of having the capacity* to love more than one.
For that goes the same like I mentioned above. If I am homosexual it sure is much more likely to find someone who is homo as well when I attend meetings or the like, because I can hardly expect someone to "learn" being homo (which doesn't mean it's not possible at all, but that's a different story). But being poly doesn't mean I am resricted to only love other poly persons - doesn't "polyamorous" mean just the opposite? I do love a lot of people. Though I am "only" enganged with two (or three if you count my boyfriend's wife) all the others I love do know about me loving them. Some of them can't return that love in the same way (because either they're enganged and prefer to stay mono, which is perfectly fine, or they just don't feel the way I do), but each of them appreciates being loved by me, because they know I don't expect something from them which they can't or don't want to give.

If I meet a guy I feel comfortable with I will sooner or later tell him about my lifestyle, because my family is an important part of my life and nothing I am ashamed of - who can't accept that just isn't someone for me. But by doing so I found out many people did never consider this lifestyle at all, but everyone I ever told about it has been quite impressed and does like the idea (even if they're not sure whether or not they'd be able to live like that). Maybe all the positive reactions I got so far have also something to do with the fact that I surround myself with very open-minded people - I can imagine there're huge parts in this world where it isn't that simple to find that kind of persons whatsoever. I found that being so honest to people makes a lot of them feel attached to me in a special way and they became my best friends or even lovers. It seems like for them knowing about me being so open when it comes to love and relationships also takes a lot of insecurity from them. I know it sounds all a bit fairytale-like and I wouldn't stress it so much if I didn't experience it so often. So, from what I've seen so far (and experienced for myself) it definitely is possible to learn polyamory after meeting someone.

The point which seems to be your real problem about my posts so far is that I don't like dating agencies and other sorts of arranged dates, because I've never seen things work that way. But as I said before, that's only my experience and for some people that may work. Of course, it can be a first step to visit local poly groups if there're some in the area you live, so you also get it touch with like-minded people. I just wouldn't focus on that to much to be the only possibility to find someone.
 
Being open and honest about who you are and what you want is the best method I've found for meeting like-minded people.

Meeting like-minded people is the best way I've found for finding people I feel a deep connection or desire to.

Finding people I feel a deep connection or desire with is the best way I have found for building new relationships.

Interestingly-long before I ever heard the world Polyamory I was very open about who I am. I just didn't try to hide myself. Even though many people judged me, the ones who didn't were the ones who stuck around and became part of my life.
So when I did find the word polyamory and "came out" as poly-none of the important people in my life cared, they already knew I was "odd" and they had already accepted my differences, in fact I was already surrounded by people who accepted that we are different and that it's ok for us to be different (most of them are in fact straight, mono and religiously affiliated). So accepting a new detail was no big deal.

The people I know who've had struggles with being judged for being poly-were the same ones who didn't feel that they could "be themselves" in their life-and they were surrounded by judgmental people.

I don't know what the exact connection is between those two things-but I'm sure there is one.

If you want to meet more poly-minded people, start going to poly events. ;) That's my suggestion (though it's not what I do as there aren't really any where we live).
 
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.

I wouldn't say "irrevocably" but personally, I do believe it's inherent, as in a quality of the person, their capacity to love more than one person. Some people just can't love more than one person, some people just can't be happy being restricted to loving only one person, and some people can be happy either way.

Why would this not separate them into two groups, with a grey area (analogous to bisexual) in the middle?

Could you talk about how your experiences contradict this view? By your description, some of the people you love are mono and therefore are unable to return your love romantically, though they may love you as a friend.
 
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.
OK, fair enough. I would be most interested in hearing your experiences.

My experiences of finding poly love in the wide world have been hard and painful. Educating people into the fact that poly exists, is a viable relationship form and yes, my partner is fine with it have usually either ended in the person running a mile, or worse, we fall in love, only for them to decide after a short while that "poly isn't for them", leaving me feeling very hurt and grieving another lost love.

Many people that I have spoken to have had similar experiences, and bemoan the fact that they can never find anyone that is open to it. My advice is to find a local group, where everyone is open to it, and the questions come down to chemistry and compatibility. It's no guarantee, but it drastically increases your odds.

I actually don't believe that poly and mono are irrevocably inherent to two distinct groups of people - I think that there are some who are most definitely "wired" poly or mono, whether by nature or nurture doesn't matter. I also think that there are quite a few folks out there that would love the idea of trying different forms of relationships. The problem is that they don't tend to wear badges or flashing signs above their heads and they are most definitely in the minority in the world. So the question is - how do you maximize your odds and minimise your effort to find compatible people?
 
I also think that there are quite a few folks out there that would love the idea of trying different forms of relationships. The problem is that they don't tend to wear badges or flashing signs above their heads and they are most definitely in the minority in the world. So the question is - how do you maximize your odds and minimise your effort to find compatible people?

Boy! Wouldn't it be GREAT if they did? Reminds me of what I've heard about Gay men in the 80's who would wear different colours of bandanas hanging out of their pocket, depending on whether they were tops/bottoms, into fisting, S&M, etc.

In answer to your question (tongue in cheek), move to a big city with a decent community? That's been my biggest problem, is that where I live, there just aren't enough poly-minded people to have gatherings. Through conversations online, I've discovered that there are more than I originally thought, but they tend to be quiet about it. Redneck-city, it can be dangerous to come out. My former city was about 5x the size, and from what my friends tell me, they're finally getting some semi-decent attendance at their poly munches. It's just slow-going.
 
Boy! Wouldn't it be GREAT if they did? Reminds me of what I've heard about Gay men in the 80's who would wear different colours of bandanas hanging out of their pocket, depending on whether they were tops/bottoms, into fisting, S&M, etc.

Some still do...its quite an art. There was a discussion on OKC about it a while back. Exact same consideration for a poly symbol...

We could all just walk around with parrots :)

In answer to your question (tongue in cheek), move to a big city with a decent community? That's been my biggest problem, is that where I live, there just aren't enough poly-minded people to have gatherings. Through conversations online, I've discovered that there are more than I originally thought, but they tend to be quiet about it. Redneck-city, it can be dangerous to come out. My former city was about 5x the size, and from what my friends tell me, they're finally getting some semi-decent attendance at their poly munches. It's just slow-going.

I have to say this is the stage where I am at. HEck this applies to anything sexual outside the norm. I am considering a city move <<gasp>> to increase our public fun with BDSM and increase of public meetings of Poly people. Tough pill to swallow, but small towns offer small odds :)
 
Back
Top