GreenMom's Blog

GreenMom

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Hi, I'm GreenMom (Green). I'm going to do my best to tell you all a bit about myself while still remaining moderately vague. Even though I am 99% sure that no one else involved in my life is here, I am still paranoid. Written words, posted, that cannot be taken back, that could come back to haunt me. I figure it will simply help me to post things as fair and balanced as possible, even when I have a bad day. Though to be fair, the person I am most likely to "attack" in posts is myself.

I'm married (Derrick) with two young kiddos (Elmo & Dora). I also have a relationship with my boyfriend (Marty), who is married (Kitty) with a young kiddo (Thomas). Derrick tells me in poly parlance this set up is called an "N", since Marty and I are the only ones who "cross over" between the two marriages romantically or sexually.

Our families live in different towns about 45 minutes apart. We all balance jobs, child care, and our own pursuits. In other words, we are all extremely busy people. Time is a challenge, especially for me, as I am pretty demanding and tend to want to get as much time as possible with those I care about. Not necessarily a bad trait, but I have to give myself a reality check every so often.

Before I write about where I am currently, I'm going to give an overview of my history with poly, so help you better understand where I am coming from.

I was a bit of a late bloomer compared to some in that my first serious relationship didn't happen til I was 20. I fell into it hard and fast, we moved in together within a few months of our first date, and got engaged not too long after. Life happened, and we ended up long distance, due to where my job was, and where his school was. During the course of this, I asked his permission to date women, giving the reason that because I was bisexual, and I had never dated a woman, I wanted to experience that. He agreed, and I had a very brief (like... less than a month) fling with a local woman, which ended badly and turned me off of women. I then met a man. I asked, and received, permission to explore that, though I know fiance was not thrilled about it. He showed me how thrilled he was by sleeping with one person I had specifically requested that he not (due to disease concerns), and things got kinda weird between us then. I'm not going into further details but we did not end well.

I continued my relationship with the other man I had been seeing. He had another woman he also saw, in a LDR situation (we were LDR as well). That ended and for a good while we were each others' "only". Then he met someone, and ended what we had so he could be with her.

Then came my now husband, Derrick. I held myself pretty reserved our first couple dates. Our third date, months having passed between each date during which we kept in touch other ways, we launched feet first into a committed relationship. Three months after that, we were living together. I had known he was poly, and frankly at that point, I wanted nothing to do with poly anymore, since I hadn't really had any positive poly experiences. That was why I resisted dating him at first. After we added sex into the mix on our third date, I told him the next morning that we could go back to being friends, but I just didn't think I could do poly again. He told me he would date only me, so we moved forward, and have been together for coming up on six years now.

Something I've been up front about with all my boyfriends/girlfriends is the fact that D/s and BDSM are a very important part of my life. I'm not really big into the local community, but it is a large part of how I am naturally in relationships. I'm a switch, and I'm happiest when I can express both "sides" of that. Derrick was very up front about the fact that he is strictly dominant, and for a few years, I was okay with that. Then I started getting very resentful of the fact that he wouldn't switch and let me be the dominant sometimes. He encouraged me to find another partner with whom I could express that side of myself. I fought that suggestion hard for a couple years. That would be poly. Gasp!

Finally I met a girl (another LDR), and was able to start exploring that side of myself again. This burned out within a few months, but gave me just enough of a taste that I couldn't suppress that side of myself happily anymore. Summer of 2011 I started seriously looking for a submissive female play partner. I had convinced myself as well that I would keep this casual, more of a friends situation, just friends who are also play partners at time.

I hadn't really had much luck, and then at a BDSM event we attended in November? December? after we watched a really intense scene that included a very talented person wielding floggers, I asked Derrick - "if I had the opportunity to play with someone like that, just for the experience not for anything more, would that be cool?" Derrick, "Why wouldn't it be?" Green - "Well, he's male. I have permission to play with women." Derrick - "That was your rule, not mine. Gender doesn't make a difference to me."

That conversation really opened up my eyes and made me think. I decided, why not, and broadened my search to include males. Mid-december I began talking to Marty. We began dating in January, I immediately stopped my search, and overall life has been good.

Need to take a break from writing, but I will add more later.
 
So, my present situation... the first month especially, I boggled at how amazingly well everything was going. Derrick was thrilled at how happy I was to have found not only an outlet for my dominant side but such a compatible person. Everyone got along well from the get-go - the adults and the kids. NRE was definitely in overdrive.

Then real life started getting in the way. Job schedules changed. Other obligations surfaced. Scheduling started to really become a bitch, especially scheduling one on one time, so it seemed like the NRE buzz went away very quickly. It's hard to indulge the "yay yummy new boyfriend want to glom" impulse when a preschooler is crawling on you and Yo Gabba Gabba is playing on the TV. I also struggle with being romantic/physically affectionate in front of Kitty, even though I know on the logical level she does not mind, because part of me keeps waiting for her to get mad and want me to get off her husband.

I recognize I look at a lot of things in a very monogamous manner. It's all that I know. As I've said to Derrick plenty of times, the only reason I was willing to actively be poly was because I had a specific need (to express my domme side) that he could not fulfill. Maybe not the best reason to be poly, but I've always been up front about that. I failed pretty miserably in my "i'll keep it casual" theory, which didn't surprise my husband at all. I don't do casual. I jump in to the deep end right away, I get into the physical fast, I let feelings develop.

But my monogamy-filter, as I've started calling it, is causing me frustration. I get to see Marty once, maybe twice, a week. Due to transportation and other logistical issues, the grand majority of our dates are at his home, or at least in his town. The vast majority being at his home means we are spending time not only with each other, but with Kitty and Thomas. Sometimes I take Elmo along as well. Very rarely, Derrick and Dora come along too.

I've been struggling with the fact that I know I have needs and wants not being met, but I also know it's my fault -- I'm not speaking up about what things frustrate me. I can't expect anyone to read my mind. Why don't I speak up? I'm scared that if I express what I want - or even how I feel - I'll be dumped. Nothing Marty has said or done has given me that feeling - I have created this negative mindset myself. So I am spending this time journaling, and working on determining what is it exactly that I need, what is it that I want, and what is fair/realistic for me to ask for.

I'm fortunate in that Derrick is always willing and happy to listen to me talk about things and tries to help me sort through things. I've also been fortunate in that I've been able to have a couple frank one on one talks with Kitty to assure myself of where she stands on things. The only one I've been chicken to talk to as frankly is Marty.

Part of it, I think, is that I am accustomed to the person I am dating being as excited, or moreso, than I am. And I am not saying that isn't the case. But due to the nature of the situation (kids, etc) I don't think this can go the way I am used to a new relationship going. I am trying to keep in mind that I have never started a relationship since having kids. I've never dated someone who has a kid. There are a lot of firsts in this situation which means direct comparisons to situations from my past may not be terribly fair.

So, tomorrow I will be sitting down with pen and paper and making a list of things that I need, a list of things I want, and then coming up with ideas those things can be accomplished. Or, determining if I am being incredibly unrealistic in my desires.

More to come. Bedtime now.
 
Our first month or so of dating was fantastic in every way. We got together twice a week - Wednesday evenings we hung out with Kitty and Thomas, Sundays we had the day to ourselves. A couple times on Saturdays we had "family days" that also included Derrick, Dora and Elmo. Good stuff! Pretty good communication between dates too, which helps for me a lot since given the drive time, I can't just "stop by", things have to be planned so much.

Then life started encroaching and shifting the fun NRE off to the side. Work conferences, work schedule changes, visitations for Dora, etc etc. Scheduling has gotten to be pretty tricky - particularly scheduling any one on one time - which has made things frustrating at times. The logistics are a challenge at time.

I've recognized through long conversations with Derrick and some of my good friends, that some of what I am frustrated by, I have to let go. Some things are simply beyond my power to control. For example, this is my first relationship that has started since I had kids, and the first time I have dated someone with kids. OF COURSE that will impact things. That is not something that can really be changed, aside from trying to find a good balance of kid free dates as well as kid inclusive dates.

Something else I haven't been very strong with is communication. I know, I know - bad Green. This was pointed out first by Derrick, and then by Marty. Marty was actually pretty sweet about it. You see, I have worked out in my mind that if I dare to speak up about anything - if I express that I would like things different, etc - I will then be "too much work" and not worth dating. Marty basically told me the opposite is more true - if I "suffer in silence" and make him guess, that is the too much work option.

I also realized that in holding back on conversations due to fear, and in moderating my behavior so much due to fear, I am doing everyone a disservice in that I am not being authentically "me". So that is changing. I also realized I may be trying too hard to not rock the boat, and giving off the appearance that I just don't care. That is changing too.

Starting tonight. We are getting together for a couple hours for his bday. It will include Kitty and Thomas (unless he is asleep), at least peripherally, and that is fine, as it is his birthday. I'm going to do my best tonight to not let fear or doubt keep me from being me, while still obviously behaving in an appropriate fashion.
 
Last night went well. We spent a couple hours watching movies along with Kitty and Thomas. Then we ran a couple errands - maybe not the world's most romantic activity but I actually enjoy it as I feel it's a little way we can share part of each other's lives. We also had some interesting conversations while out and about that continued after we got back to his place and enjoyed some snuggle-and-talk time before I had to head home.

I'm glad I was able to spend some time with him for his birthday and I look forward to our next time together, Wednesday. We will hopefully be going out for coffee, conversation, and board games at a local coffee place or restaurant.

I'm feeling more confident about communicating my wants and needs, moreso feeling I have the RIGHT to communicate my wants and needs. I think this is a very good thing. :)
 
This sounds like such a healthy situation, with your husband totally helping you to be open with communication. I know what you mean about the monogamy filter, I have one too! Lol. I also find it near impossible to keep things casual, sex means emotions which mean, for me, I want to keep that person around!
 
Thanks for your reply, trescool. :) It's nice to know I'm not the only one with a "monogamy filter", heh.
 
Last night went differently than I expected, but in a good way! Wednesday is my "usual" day to go see Marty. I found out he was expecting one or two of his friends to come by for a belated birthday celebration. Four friends ended up coming over - one whom I had met before, and three I hadn't. All very nice people. It was fun being in a social setting, and I was really happy to see Marty so happy that his friends were able to come together and do something with him for his birthday. Good stuff!

We have a kiddo play date set up for Sunday, to get our sons together. They haven't gotten to do that for a couple weeks and they have both been incessantly asking for the other. It's so cute how much they enjoy playing with each other and heartwarming to see how well they get along.

So currently, in true GreenMom fashion, I'm stressing myself out with undo anxiety about a date I want to propose. I'd like to go out for dinner Saturday night, and then spend the night with him at my place. He hasn't been to my place since late February - logistically speaking, it's much harder to arrange. My mother, who lives with us (and is not yet aware of the poly relationship) will be out of town, so it's a rare opportunity to spend some time with him in my space. I'm on pins and needles just considering asking - I have it in my head that I'm going to be rejected - either because he won't want to go out, won't want to be away from his own home for the night (he gets guilty feelings, even though Kitty has made it clear she is quite okay with it), etc.

So I am working on stopping the negative thinking and just preparing to ask. I wish I wasn't such a coward about such things. I'm just really bad at speaking up about my own wants at times. I feel selfish, and bad, and like I should just go along with what is easiest for everyone. But this is something that is important to me so I need to speak up.
 
Get it over with an ask him! Sooner rather than later. The longer you wait, the more chance there will be that he can't do it. But keep in mind, if he says "no," that doesn't necessarily mean it's a rejection of you, but could mean he feels weird about getting away.

You can just say it casually and relaxed: "I was thinking, my mother's going to be out of town next weekend and I would love it if you could stay over Saturday night."

Or, make up a little invitation on paper and give it to him. That might be a fun way to ask.

Or talk to him about it with his wife there so she can chime in and say, "Go Marty, I'll be fine!"
 
nycindie - I got over it, I asked him, and we are on for Saturday night. :)

It's funny you mention asking him with Kitty there, as that was my original plan, but with all the folks showing up unexpectedly Weds night, I didn't have the opportunity.

I am getting better at communicating and that is a good, good thing!
 
So, we had a pretty good weekend. Saturday evening, Marty and his son came over. The kids were all thrilled to get the time to play together. Once kiddos were down for the night Derrick, Marty and I all watched some netflix until we started passing out. Marty and I got some one on one time of the physical variety which for me (I scored a 12 on that love languages test for physical touch, heh) is very important and was very needed. The next day, we all had breakfast, and we took all the kids to the zoo. Lots of fun. Afterwards, Elmo & I took Marty & Thomas back to their house, the boys played a while, we had supper, and went home.

I'm a bit frustrated because I continue to feel that we pretty much skipped over the fun crazy NRE phase and dove right into the old married couple phase without actually being married or having been together for that long. I love spending time with him taking the kids places, watch movies, playing games, talking, etc, but I am just having trouble wrapping my head around how to deepen the bond. I WANT that crazy exciting I-can't-keep-my-hands-off-you phase. I know things have to be more circumspect that I am used to because this is my first new relationship since having kids, and I've never dated someone with a child. But even little things like holding hands in the car, a quick kiss as we pass in the kitchen, etc, would be nice for touch-aholic me.

So to that end, instead of whining about it here (well, more than I have), or getting all angsty and convinced Marty doesn't like me/isn't attracted to me/etc, I'm going to actually start doing these things instead of waiting for him to do so.

Instead of getting upset a the realities of life and the fact its just not feasible for us to spend more time in person one on one, I'm going to look at the fact that we actually do get quite a bit of time together given our work schedules and everything else, and I am going to find ways we can get some periods of non-kiddo time so we can speak and grow as a couple, while still getting lots of the family time which we both enjoy.

I also have to admit that I'm having more trouble than usual bouncing back from this years SAD. I had a vacation in March which was supposed to be awesome (with hubby) and ended up being hugely dramatic and negative (not between hubby and I, but with others along). We've also had a lot of extra appointments for my special needs daughter and I've been overwhelmed by all of that. As a result I've stopped working out, I've been eating crappy food -- of COURSE my mood is suffering. So I am making a more concerted effort to make time for those things, which are important too.

I have felt strained with Derrick since the aftermath of our trip, and I need to talk with him about that and see if I can resolve it. I've been giving a lot of thought lately to what marriage means to me and wondering if it is time for me to redefine marriage - more than I have already, since by becoming poly, I have already changed what marriage had meant to me.

OK, enough ramblings for now. Here is an e-cookie for anyone who got this far. ;)
 
Sounds good!

I love when I get those inner self-awareness shifts. I can literally feel it whenever it happens. Here's to more of those in the near future for you!

*cheers*
 
A lot of times I get the "he's just not that into you" feeling and worry that I'm just something to fill up free time if and when Marty has some. I know that's not necessarily fair of me, and I've created it in my mind. I own it, I'm working on it. But it sure doesn't hurt when I vanish off the grid for a day and come back to messages asking if I'm okay and expressing worry over not seeing me online all day, or hearing that I was missed when I had to leave an event early. Little things like that remind me that I'm more than a convenient way to kill time when others are busy and that I do matter in his life. Yay.

Bit by bit I'm getting better at this self confidence thing. I am getting better at not taking things so personally, and I am getting better at finding confidence within myself, rather than expecting constant reminders from those in my life (though when they happen, they sure don't hurt). This is all positive growth.
 
Things keep on keepin' on. I've been increasingly frustrated at my "friendzone" feeling. The more I read on here, talk to folks, and think things over, the more I think it has to do with us just expressing feelings in different ways (love languages anyone?), and the fact that I'm looking at how my husband and I interact - that is a dynamic that built up over 7 years. I also suspect a lot of Marty's has to do with how he and his wife interact. I have to remind myself that four months is really not that long of a time. Even though I have such strong feelings, we haven't really been together that long. I'm working on just enjoying the moment more, instead of worrying about what we should do next, where things are going in six months, etc.

Things kind of came to a head last week when I showed up for what I thought was a planned date time and Marty wasn't home yet. Turns out we had walked away from a conversation with different ideas of what was decided, in part because of how ambivalent I've been attempting to be about plans (there is a reason for it, but too long an explanation for today). The good thing is, this caused us to sit down and talk about scheduling, as well as clear up a couple other things that had been on his mind. We had limited talk time, and I'm a fan of not dumping every single topic into one evening, so I saved a couple things I want to talk about for our next opportunty.

We've now set a tentative "schedule" for dates... obviously not set in stone because life happens. We're going to continue with the Wednesday date nights, and instead of shooting for every Sunday, we're going for every other Sunday. That will give us both a couple free days a month to socialize with other people, do things around the house, or just slack off. I can't lie, part of me is a bit sad that we'll have a bit less time together. But the smarter, more logical part of me knows that these off days will enable the together days to be less stressful, so that can only be a good thing. I know I have a tendency to cling and want to eke out as much time as humanely possible with those I care about. I know too that is stifling to many others, and to be fair also does stress me out since it leaves me no time left over. So I am going to make the most of these "off" days.

I've been stressing for a good deal now about letting him know how I feel about him. Our society builds up so much baggage around saying "I love you" that I've been really freaked out. I'm not entirely sure why but I continually have the feeling that given the nature of our relationship I'm not "allowed" or "supposed" to be in love, or express love, or be romantic, etc. That's not true (that I am aware of) and my best guess is that it's a combination of my brain giving scaredy cat me a loophole, my brain still being stuck in monogamy mindset, and me looking at how I act in a romantic relationship vs how he does (those love languages again) and just thinking it's wrong. I'm hoping to get an actual date night on Weds (sans kiddos and spouses) so that I can attempt to bring up feelings. I'm also hoping that when I do, he doesn't run for the hills, haha!

Things with Derrick are going pretty well too. We had our weekly date night Friday and went to see The Avengers which was amazing. We are already planning to go again this coming weekend with a couple friends. Now that I've developed a couple low key hobbies, am exercising again, and socializing outside my marriage (with friends, as well as with Marty), it's given hubby more time for his projects and hobbies which I know makes him happy. And at the end of most days, we get to curl up together and chill out, which makes us both happy. I realize I write a disproportionately large amount about my boyfriend compared to my husband, and I think that is simply because the boyfriend thing is still relatively new, I'm still learning who he is and how we are together. Things with my husband do change at times, nothing is unchanging, but we have been together for almost eight years, so it's a bit different. But it's good. :)

And I really like hubby's version of compersion... which translates to not only being super happy about the fact I get pretty frequent dates with Marty, but also to jumping me when I get home. Not out of jealousy, pretty much the exact opposite reason. Heh.
 
So that I don't have to retype, I will link to a thread I made in a different section of this community this week:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23695

I will be back later to blog more in depth about the conversation last night, as well as my thoughts on it.
 
I am so tired. This having a talk halfway finished and having to wait four days to conclude it is incredibly stressful. Part of me just wants a resolution no matter what it is so I can stop stressing over how it is going to go.

I am cautiously optimistic that he wouldn't have asked me for The List if he wasn't willing to work on improving our relationship. But ultimately, I feel like it is really going to come down to two questions, which by their nature are either-or:

1. Is he willing to look past his previous negative experience and dive "all in", within the logistical confines (spouses, children, work, hobbies, etc) we already are working within?

2. Am I willing to stop expecting this to be a deep, committed, loving relationship and accept the casual dating/strong friendship we have now for what it is?

One of us is going to have to give. I don't see a middle ground. Perhaps I am looking at it too black and white. That is very possible, though I like to think I am queen of the compromise. I just don't see how to resolve those two points into one thing that could have us both being happy unless one of us has a lightbulb moment and realizes they are okay with the type of relationship the other wants.

In working on this list, everything I am coming up with would either require him to agree to look past his fear and be "all in", or to at least give the outward appearance of doing so. So it would be a matter of:

1. I don't get what is on the list.
2. I get the outward appearance, which is emotionally dishonest and would likely feel very hollow.
3. He's willing to be "all in".

Hubby has seen my initial draft of The List and thinks I've done a fantastic job of pulling things together. He suggested I just go ahead and email it, rather than waiting for The Talk, but I am not a fan of having something like this out there with the only way to "talk" about it being IM's, text, or phone. Things like this, to me, are best handled in person.

I am in knots over this. I know relationships are not always easy, but this is the hardest situation I have dealt with romantically in longer than I can remember. Hubby and I have had our ups and downs, but I've never had reason to believe those downs could cause us to end. With this, that is one of the four clear solutions I see:

1. We decide to be "just friends", which for me, likely means we're completely done.
2. I decide to lower my expectations and accept the casual arrangement.
3. We manage to find a middle ground, even though I don't see how.
4. He decides to look past his fear and be all in.

And yeah... my constant list making in this post is my snarkastic effort to be humorous.

Ending this here for now. Anyone reading this who has any possible wisdom to share from their own experiences, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
 
Although you did not post anything from your List here (I'm hoping more romantic dates is on it), I wonder if there are other possible outcomes besides either him staying distant and you accepting it or him going all in and you both are more committed. I think there might be other more "middle ground" solutions.

As I was writing this reply, I realized that I may have a different idea of what going "all in" is than what you expect from him. See, I think there are two separate distinct things - one is the type of relationship and the other is the type of commitment. I think he can still be all in and totally committed to a looser casual relationship, or he can be very non-committal to an agreed upon, tighter, more "partner-y" type relationship. I see commitment as not being about the type of relationship, but about the approach to it.

So, it is a good thing to make a list of what you want in a relationship and then ask what kind of commitment he is able to make, but those may not be as diametrically opposed as you think. For example, I like having very loose and relaxed relationships with my lover-friends. Generally seeing each other once a week, and sometimes only once a month, is okay with me. I don't need to know anyone else in their lives, and I don't need a lot of what most people need in relationships to know someone is committed to our love-friendship as fully as they can be.

Last summer, I let go of a LDR with someone I really liked because he could not commit. There would have been no way we could have a traditional romantic partnership, being that he is married and lives in another city, but all those parameters were acceptable to me, as long as I felt he was "all in" to make it work. But he was feeling ambivalent, being new to poly, and I let the relationship go because of that. We had only begun to see each other, so there was no love in the equation yet, but...

I am realizing more and more that very often love is just not enough. So, to me, the fact that I love someone doesn't really mean anything, other than that I have a feeling about him. What means more to me is what someone is willing to put into making it work, whether or not there is respect and caring, and if the relationship brings me satisfaction.

Not sure if I am being helpful or just rambling, but I was moved to share.
 
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Cindie, thank you. I'm actually still mulling over what I can take from your post, as well as a conversation I had with hubby yesterday.
 
Sometimes being a compassionate partner sucks big time. And sometimes the humbling reminder that not everything - and in fact, very little - has to do with one's self is necessary. But it still sucks. Whine whine whine etc.
 
The talk, part two, never happened. Every thing under the sun has happened to interfere with possible plans -- babysitters cancelling, illness, work schedule changes, etc. We finally had the talk, part 1.5, today via text message (which I HATE for anything important), and what I'm getting is that between our varied expectations of what a secondary relationship comprises of, combined with the fact his anxiety disorder is currently untreated, I am unsure what can actually be accomplished.

His primary interest in me at this point is that we can get our kids together to play. He has very little interest in doing much outside of hanging at his house with his family. I know this is due to the chemical imbalances/anxiety disorder/etc, but it is still very hard for me to process.

The best I expect can happen at this point is me massively readjusting what I expect, and being okay with most of our time together being very platonic, and very much me hanging with him and his family, or us getting our entire families together. I'm not sure I can do this. I don't expect him to give me tons and tons of time - nor could I give it - but I do expect and want some level of romantic interaction. Hand holding, snuggling, a kiss hello and goodbye, simple things, little things. Occasional nights out that don't include our families. Things like that, which I am uncertain if he will be willing to give at this point. He gave them before, but at that point, he was fully medicated/in therapy, and emotionally a very different person.

My needs the best boiled down I came up with are:
feel like I'm being treated considerately
see outwardly (verbal/physical) that he is excited to make plans with me - while we are making them - and when I arrive
have occasional kid free time
be able to engage in BDSM play (the reason I became poly, after all, was ultimately to express my Domme side) at least once a month ideally

we'll see what tomorrow holds.
 
As I debate whether or not to go see Marty for our "scheduled" time this evening, it occurs to me that really, I don't want that much. I want to feel wanted. I miss the enthusiasm he had from the beginning of our relationship. His total ambivalence towards if we see each other or not (at least outwardly, that is what I see - he says he loves to see me, but it would be nice to hear it more often and without me prompting) makes me pretty darn ambivalent myself.

I know we STILL have this half finished talk hanging over our heads. To be honest, I want to ignore all of that tonight. I just want to hold him. I want to snuggle up on the couch and watch a movie on netflix and just enjoy the companionship with none of the thinking. This has been a rough week for me (entirely unrelated to relationship stuff) and I just need to relax. I have fun things planned all weekend long with friends and family, but the midweek break for calm socialization with snuggles would be super welcome.
 
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