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  #11  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:45 AM
1234567 1234567 is offline
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I think a scheduling conflict probably brings up "can I ask for clarity- are you saying that your wife has power to veto our plans? Because that's something I can't live with. I know that to be destructive- how can we take what you know and I know and make it work?"

And I'm probably asking, "will you give me the basic respect of keeping your word to me" and feeling humiliated for doing that.
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:05 PM
dragonette dragonette is offline
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I'd be upset if the feelings were jealousy of my relationship with the person, or general bad day type stuff.

If a death in the family or something like that where my partner would want to cancel for any friend, then I'd totally understand that (and presumably it wouldn't happen often enough to seriously affect my needs).

There's in-between stuff, though. More than a bad day, but less than a death in the family. In that situation, I think it would be important to be asked how I felt about it. Like "hey, my other partner is in a really bad way today. how would you feel if" [describe proposed solution that includes rescheduling with me or something]. Then I could say "this date is really important to me and I will be really upset if you cancel," or "sure, sounds good" or propose another solution.

Unilaterally canceling, as in "my other partner has an issue, so I'm doing this" would not go over as well. And I would expect to have the same ability to get my partner's time and attention if needed (although I'm used to dealing with my feelings alone, so that doesn't really happen).
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:55 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1234567 View Post
Voyager, I had a reply that seems to have been eaten, but you really got me thinking.

I have long assumed that in a relationship, you are responsible for asking for what you need and want.

I'm starting to see that while there is good-- there is a level of asking that you should never have to do.

I think I need to figure out what crosses the line.
I agree with pretty much all of this. One thing I try to be very conscious of, though, is that there are things which I've concluded are destructive for me to have to ask, or not be able to expect, in a relationship, which are also directly contradictory with other things which other people may have concluded are destructive for them to have to ask, or not be able to expect.

The basic mono/poly difference is one of the most obvious of these. It's a basic piece of the way I live my life, that I'm unwilling to have to ask my partner's permission to date somebody else. It is equally a basic piece of the way many other people live their lives, that they're unwilling to have to ask someone to be monogamously faithful to them... they feel it should be an inherent part of having a serious relationship.

I don't think that either of these is wrong. But they're totally incompatible. So I don't date people who see the world through that lens.

Similarly, there are people whose structure of polyamory is, I should not have to ask my partner to understand that I put my primary partner first. I should be able to expect that, if they're going to date me knowing that I have a primary partner, they are signing up for secondary treatment, and will not try to pressure me to do things which may be harmful to my primary partner or my relationship with them.

And I don't think this is an unreasonable boundary for them to set -- it's just one I, personally, choose not to accept. My own boundaries and my own self-respect are incompatible with it, and I move on and look for someone else to date if that's the kind of relationship I am offered.

What I don't do, however, is to take the relationship and then attempt to change their boundaries to suit my needs. That's not fair of me, any more than it would be fair for them to get involved with me and then try and change my boundaries to suit theirs.

We're both better off dating people whose boundaries mesh with our own in the first place.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:21 AM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
that there are things which I've concluded are destructive for me to have to ask
This may be a topic for another thread entirely, so I hope I'm not dragging the topic too askew.

My thought, though, is that if something can't be discussed, then it's already toxic & the poison is spreading, rapidly or insidiously. Avoiding medical attention does nothing to cure a health problem.
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:33 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
This may be a topic for another thread entirely, so I hope I'm not dragging the topic too askew.

My thought, though, is that if something can't be discussed, then it's already toxic & the poison is spreading, rapidly or insidiously. Avoiding medical attention does nothing to cure a health problem.
Well, can't be discussed isn't the same thing from shouldn't have to be requested. I mean, I can discuss consent issues with my husband comfortably when the subject comes up, but if I don't get my right to say, "Not now, thanks," respected automatically, without having to explicitly ask him, "When you ask for sex and I say no, won't you please consider respecting that and not pushing further?" then something is pretty badly wrong. I should not have to ask for that; I should get it because it's baseline human decency... but that still doesn't make it impossible to talk about.
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  #16  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:39 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1234567 View Post
And I'm probably asking, "will you give me the basic respect of keeping your word to me" and feeling humiliated for doing that.
This is resonating with me, from the other end. I suspect I sometimes hurt people this way more than they let on...

I'm very spontaneous. I have a bad habit of making plans and then not wanting to keep them when the time comes, because I'm no longer in the mood.

I think it would be nice if I started answering "I'll try" or "that sounds fun, let's see how I'm feeling that day" rather than making commitments and then sometimes breaking them. I feel overwhelmed when I have a lot of plans in a single week. I need downtime.

This has nothing to do with other partners. Sometimes I break plans just so I can sit home alone and read.
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:45 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
This is resonating with me, from the other end. I suspect I sometimes hurt people this way more than they let on...

I'm very spontaneous. I have a bad habit of making plans and then not wanting to keep them when the time comes, because I'm no longer in the mood.

I think it would be nice if I started answering "I'll try" or "that sounds fun, let's see how I'm feeling that day" rather than making commitments and then sometimes breaking them. I feel real overwhelmed when I have a lot of plans in a single week. I need downtime.

This has nothing to do with other partners. Sometimes I break plans just so I can sit home alone and read.
I have had to do precisely what you say you're thinking of doing... and so far, it works very well for me. Because of my fibromyalgia, I can't predict when I will be in any condition to be capable of doing something very much more than a few hours in advance. So, when I'm invited to an event a day or more away, my usual response is, "Sure, if I'm feeling well enough," or "Barring energy issues interfering, I'd love to," and that gives people enough of a heads-up that I might not make it for them mostly not to feel too bad if I don't.

Occasionally, I run into somebody who cannot cope with someone breaking plans on them, even with warning. Such people tend not to last long in my social circle, for both of our sanity.
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