HELP! Husband of 25+ years in love with former colleague, wants poly relationship

Slyfox

New member
Some background. My husband of 25+ years and I are newer to recreational FWB full swap swinging, about 8 months. We are very clear that this is an activity we do together. We are both agreed that we will not form feelings of romantic "love" for our swinging partners. It's been a very fun time so far. We have young kids together and have never strayed before.

Husband recently came clean that he's betrayed me with (at the very least) an emotional affair with his longtime coworker (he was the boss, she subordinate). When he had to let her go from the job, he says he "realized" he had feelings of love for her. It's my guess that it's also "ok" now as he wasn't in a position of power over her to admit this. Rather than come to me with those feelings he went directly to her. (What was the goal of doing this? I imagine the hope of acting upon these feelings although both say they did not.) She reciprocated his feelings of love but said that she could not see having an affair end well and that she had too much respect for me and his and my relationship to do that. I'm feeling very betrayed and furiously angry at my husband. I'm mad at her but not like I am with him. I do not trust either of them.

We made our usual vacation plans this past summer. My husband asked what I thought of inviting H and her kids, especially since they'd never had a vacation for the fun if it. Her husband died a few years prior to this. I've always liked H and her kids. They've come to birthday parties and Christmas stuff with us. They're a lot of fun and get on well with our family. I was excited and happy to invite them! We all had the most wonderful vacation. It was super easy and fluid, the best of company, fun and relaxation for all. Husband and H took daily morning walks while I exercised in the AC gym. I thought nothing of it as I trusted them both. We joked before vacation and during that it was like having the best parts of a "sister wife" polygamous type family, helping with domestic stuff and sharing the responsibilities and load of kids, but no sex/relationship jealousy (I was the only one having sex with my husband). We arrived home much refreshed from what I will admit had been the best vacation ever. The day after getting home I half jokingly half in seriousness asked hubby what he thought of asking H to join us in a threesome. Did he think she was attractive, (I do) etc. After a long pause he said we needed to talk about some things. He then revealed his feelings for H and hers for him. That he thought they could put those feelings aside but being on vacation brought it all to a forefront, and they had not diminished. I felt triplelly betrayed, hurt and foolish. 1. He loved another 2. He went to her with these feelings first and 3. He asked her on OUR vacation knowing all this and 4. didn't share this knowledge with me prior to. He went on to share his (and hers I'm to find out) fantasy of all living together and sharing the responsibilities of 2 households under one roof. Basically a polyamorous relationship. I feel VERY conflicted about everything. I still like H and still love my husband deeply. I'm EXTREMELY angry about all the betrayal and have little to no trust in either of them. I don't know what to do about this situation. I swing from wanting her to go away completely (please move to the other side of the country!), to taking our kids and divorcing him, to work things out and welcoming her into a poly relationship. I've talked face to face with H. She too is conflicted about everything with no clear direction. I believe that a poly relationship is what husband wants, he says so and is very interested in exploring and learning about it. (LOL, he's probably reading this now!) To complicate matters we still see H and her kids as we've planned outings together. I'll admit the outings are fun and only slightly strained. I wish husband had had a one time hookup rather than an emotional affair with H, I feel it would be easier for me to deal with. I feel like this isn't a problem I created yet here it is heaped upon me. I feel like I've lost our relationship, that it will never be the same again. I'm still in disbelief that he's let himself fall in love with another, that he didn't cherish our relationship enough to guard against something like this. I'm very emotional and have been crying off and on for the last month when the kids aren't around. I'm so angry and hurt! I want him to feel the pain that I feel, the black hole running right through my chest, to do something to cause those feelings in him. I've told him all this and he says he understands my feelings. He says he's sorry for not telling me sooner, for not coming to me right away but is not remorseful for loving her.
He and I are currently in counseling together. I'd love any and all thoughts on how to resolve all this, to help take my pain and anger away, to save our marriage. Any possible scenarios on how to work this out. The funny thing is, I think if polyamory had been something we talked about and eased into TOGETHER, that I *might* have been on board. Now I feel like it'd be giving in to their bad behavior.
 
Some background. My husband of 25+ years and I are newer to recreational FWB full swap swinging, about 8 months. We are very clear that this is an activity we do together. We are both agreed that we will not form feelings of romantic "love" for our swinging partners..

Here's your first problem. People can rarely control feelings, when they are having sex with someone. Nobody can promise to NOT have feelings for a person they're sleeping with.
 
I agree with WhatHappened, I have this as I lovingly refer to as a man whorish friend. He always thought women were so silly having feelings for him when he explicitly said not to. Until he fell in love with a woman himself.

I like to look at intent, what was your husbands intent? I'm sure he had no idea how to handle the situation. Sure coming to you right away seems like the right thing to do. Perhaps he was afraid of hurting you and loosing you.

It makes sense to me that you would be upset. I know that if I were you, I would go through all my feelings and make sure that there are not other things upsetting me. Say if nothing with the other woman ever happened, are things with your husband great?

I have a few exes, I wish I could say that a new love replaced them, but there is still that empty space where they once were. So I really do believe that people can love more than one person, and not love the other any less. It's a weird thing to conceptualize.
 
I have a simple question. Did your husband treat you differently in this time since he fell in love with the other?
 
Here's your first problem. People can rarely control feelings, when they are having sex with someone. Nobody can promise to NOT have feelings for a person they're sleeping with.

Thank you for your reply. Perhaps you are correct, but so far in our swinging experience with clear boundaries set, we have done just fine with feelings and sex and our partners. We are also choosing our couples carefully, mature, long term married or attached people that are committed to each other and that also have the same boundaries set for them. So far, this has worked for us. Our dilemma is not directly related to swinging (see the lengthy novel I wrote LOL) but rather a work friendship that's turned into an emotional affair. Unfortunately for me, this is a case that "proves" in my mind that men and women cannot work together or really be friends without the real possibility of that relationship turning into feelings of romantic love.
 
I agree with WhatHappened, I have this as I lovingly refer to as a man whorish friend. He always thought women were so silly having feelings for him when he explicitly said not to. Until he fell in love with a woman himself.

I like to look at intent, what was your husbands intent? I'm sure he had no idea how to handle the situation. Sure coming to you right away seems like the right thing to do. Perhaps he was afraid of hurting you and loosing you.

It makes sense to me that you would be upset. I know that if I were you, I would go through all my feelings and make sure that there are not other things upsetting me. Say if nothing with the other woman ever happened, are things with your husband great?

I have a few exes, I wish I could say that a new love replaced them, but there is still that empty space where they once were. So I really do believe that people can love more than one person, and not love the other any less. It's a weird thing to conceptualize.

Thank you for your thoughts. My husband says he did not intend to fall in love, that he only realized it after she was let go. He says he was scared to tell me at that time for fear that I'd leave him. I say that it would have been better to do so rather then go to her with this info, keep it secret for 6 months and armed with this knowledge, talk me into inviting her on our 14 day vacation. IMO the secrets and deception has only made this situation worse. I would say that if this had not happened that our relationship was very good and had only gotten better with swinging together. Our communication and relationship had only improved upon what we had with swinging. I agree, loving more than one person romantically at the same time is a very weird concept for me to understand.
 
I have a simple question. Did your husband treat you differently in this time since he fell in love with the other?

Thank you for your question. Hmmm, in the time that I did not know about the emotional affair he did not treat me any different. Still loving and everything normal. On vacation I could sense some odd things. Our swinging is not something we are open about. One mutual longtime friend knows (we told her together) and I had asked him if he'd told anyone, such as H (used her name in the convo) I knew they were good friends so it would make sense if he had told her bit he'd told me months before vacation "No." He confessed on vacation that he had told H (I see a pattern of lying here) and set H and I up to talk about it if we wanted. This was weird to me in that why would I talk to her about this subject? Looking back I believe he was trying to get her and I talking and that the love they had for each other would come out in discussion. It did not come up and I was very superficial with the swinging discussion. Since he confessed his love for her he's been bending over backwards apologizing for not telling me first and going to her about it and for not telling me before the group vacation. He says he's trying to be understanding of my feelings. He has said that he's not remorseful for falling in love, this kills me inside, like my hearts been ripped out. It's crippling and painful to me. IMO if he'd taken more care of OUR relationship we would not be in this predicament. He doesn't see anything wrong with loving more than one person at a time. We are in counseling together (not cheap dammit!)
 
I'm sorry that you're hurting. It's pretty clear that you had some unrealistic expectations, and also pretty clear that your husband was dishonest to you. Your hurt feelings are completely valid.

I'm going to offer some advice, but I want you to know that I'm a little biased because I've never understood the concept of emotional cheating. So your desire to control the feelings of your husband, instead of going off of his actions, is foreign to me. I feel that you're wrong for expecting that you have a right to do so. And other than his dishonesty (which is huge), I'm not sure I'm seeing the rest of the problem. So with that in mind...

If you want to go forward from here with your husband, I think you need to figure out what you need, figure out what you want (would like but can live without our wouldn't like but could live with), and decide if those things are realistic.

Your needs. Your husband was dishonest and that really hurt you. In your husband's words, he lied to you because he was insecure and afraid. If you're going to stay together, he needs to work on his honesty, and you both need to work on feeling secure enough to express issues without minimizing or concealing them. And you need to work on your expectations. Expecting someone to be able to control who they love is just not realistic.

Next, what do you want? Do YOU want a poly relationship? By definition, poly is loving more than one person at once, and you seem to have trouble accepting that he can love both of you. Would you be willing to give it a try? Do you also expect to have a relationship with H even though they are in love and you aren't? Can you handle that? And what would you need to see for YOU to feel secure, given that your husband has already lied to you?

As far as realistic expectations, you haven't been very good at setting them thus far. Are you capable of feeling secure even though he loves someone else? What happens if you are all in a relationship, and you want to break up, but he doesn't? What would you expect from him in terms of communicating?

In my opinion, poly is not something I'd jump into right now. You need to work on YOUR relationship before adding more people. So that you are both secure and trust each other, or I don't think it will work. I think you should do some serious reading about polyamory and some thinking about your own nature before you stumble into it, or you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. But I think you should also stop trying to dictate how he feels. He can't control his feelings, he can only control his actions. His actions haven't been great on thehonesty front, but that is what I'd be most concerned about going forward.
 
Did he have sex with her? His letting go of the feelings to you, could that not be a good thing? I am poly, I have held feelings for other women inside. I never acted on them. I basically blew them off. Now you said you like (have feelings) for H, your husband and her have feelings, you all get along... I would go for a relationship, maybe an extended family.
 
I'm sorry that you're hurting. It's pretty clear that you had some unrealistic expectations, and also pretty clear that your husband was dishonest to you. Your hurt feelings are completely valid.

Hello, AutumnLeaves, thank you for the reply. I'm still processing your full reply but wanted to ask a clarifying question. What was "unrealistic about my expectations?" That my husband could work with a woman, be her friend and not fall in love with her? Should I have questioned their relationship? It has been our expectation of each other, that we are committed to and love only each other. (It's worked well for over 25+ years) For example: I've seen coworkers have affairs. It's never ended well for all involved. I purposefully do not allow myself to get too close to coworkers (I'm there to work not socialize, right?) so that I'd never get into a situation that would damage my marriage and relationship with my husband. Or that I'm unrealistic to think that we should only have romantic love for each other? Just trying to understand. Thank you
 
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I am getting mixed signals, did he and she have an affair, or were there just feelings and two people saying it was wrong to act on them? There is a difference. You opened the door by trying the swing scene?
When my wife and I started out on our first date, we would up in a conversation over 3somes, she was in one I was not. We have been honest about feelings the whole relationship. I know who she has been with, she knows who I have been with. We know who the other has feelings for. I have told another woman I love her in front of my wife, she has told me to treat said woman the same. Poly is hard without guidelines. It is like going into the void. You have to be flexible sometimes. The three of you need to talk it out as adults. I have always been wired as poly. When I was in grade school, my two best friends were girls, blonde and a brunette.... wait we played house and stuff... damn I bad ass at 6 years old. I had thoughts, but how do you tell a woman you are poly? I had a period with 4 gfs and having sex with each and they knew it was not exclusive. One even set me up with the other. I wish I had understood poly then. 25 years ago and I would have lived with and had a home with two women.... take a breath and talk
 
Did he have sex with her? His letting go of the feelings to you, could that not be a good thing? I am poly, I have held feelings for other women inside. I never acted on them. I basically blew them off. Now you said you like (have feelings) for H, your husband and her have feelings, you all get along... I would go for a relationship, maybe an extended family.

Hello Thewind, thank you for taking the time to read my post and replying. They both have told me they have not had sex. With all the lying should I believe this?A part of me is glad I know about their feelings now rather than not at all, another part of me wishes they'd never told me. I truly wish he'd come to me directly at the start. I grieve for our relationship before "the knowing." I do like H, I'm still not sure why I don't hold her equally accountable, not as angry and hurt by her part. I'd guess because I don't have a romantic relationship with her. We do all get along when doing things together. To be honest I'm not well educated on poly relationships or "what that all means/entails." Our counselor has suggested that perhaps a poly relationship might be a viable solution. Maybe so but I see the possibility of this as FAR down the road once he and I have worked through the betrayal and trust issues.
 
You have been together 25 years, have you mistrusted him? Have either of you had sex with another since you started FWB?
 
You have been together 25 years, have you mistrusted him? Have either of you had sex with another since you started FWB?

I have questioned myself on if I should be worried about his female relationships but then told myself that it's dumb to even consider, they work together and he'd never do that to me. Has he given me cause to mistrust (other than this situation)? No, not that I know of. No, neither of us has had sex with another person without each other present (same room sex is one of our swinging rules).
 
We tried that sex in the same room, it is great, we prefer 3somes, either mfm or fmf. But life is sometimes busy, so we went to when you can do it, as long as the other knows. Right now that is the way we work it.
Right now we only have a V with a male friend, I do miss watching him and her and joining in. We are looking for a woman, but they are real hard to come by around here.
They seem to be honest with you, go for a V or better a triad, you may find out how much you like a 3 person relationship. It is funny but we miss the way three of us would tear though the chores and best was two on one massages. We still had a guy on the side, but women sleep over, guys leave
 
Hello, AutumnLeaves, thank you for the reply. I'm still processing your full reply but wanted to ask a clarifying question.

Just at the outset, I want to say that just because "unrealistic expectation" sounds like criticism does not mean that I think you're a bad person in any way. I think that the way you think is actually really normal, and your feelings that you have are valid. I'm not trying to set out to make you defensive, but just make you think, especially since you're considering poly. Okay!

Slyfox said:
What was "unrealistic about my expectations?" That my husband could work with a woman, be her friend and not fall in love with her? ... It has been our expectation of each other, that we are committed to and love only each other.

I think it's that the expectation of only loving each other is unrealistic and problematic, especially since you say you're considering polyamory.

But even before poly, I think the whole concept of "emotional cheating" or emotional fidelity makes no sense.

Your agreement not to fall in love with others was/is naive. You're asking him to control something that he has no control over, and getting angry at him for failing to control the uncontrollable. You might as well get angry at him for not being able to make it stop raining.

Do you not have friends that you care about, some more deeply than others? Are some of them men? What if you had to work with them every day? If you socialized with them regularly? If it was you in his situation, and you fell in love without meaning to, would you blame yourself as much? If you're being honest.

You make it sound like he set out to fall in love with someone, but that's rarely how it works. And it's unreasonable to expect people not to feel feelings.

Now your expectation of commitment, I think is more reasonable. He was not being committed to you when he was being dishonest. And by sneaking around.

Slyfox said:
For example: I've seen coworkers have affairs. It's never ended well for all involved. I purposefully do not allow myself to get too close to coworkers (I'm there to work not socialize, right?) so that I'd never get into a situation that would damage my marriage and relationship with my husband.

Even though he loves her, he didn't have an affair. You responded to Vinsanity that even though he loves her, he didn't treat you any differently. His feeling is not what damaged your marriage

He did lie, which was a huge beach of trust. But that was an ACTON that damaged your marriage, not a FEELING. It wasn't his love for her that resulted in him lying to you: it was his fear of losing YOU and that's tied to his love of YOU.

Finally, you say you wouldn't have allowed yourself to fall in love with a co worker. Allow? I'm not sure you're being honest with yourself about how love happens. Sometimes, love sneaks up on you. Sometimes you don't even realize it's there until you lose it. People can't throw a switch and decide not to feel. Goodness knows I wish I COULD sometimes.

You might as well ask him to never be around women. Except... he worked with this one, so not much of a choice there. And if he chose to socialize with her because it made him feel good, that was an action, not the feeling.

You're free to think that people can choose to fall in love, and that falling in love with someone outside of your relationship is some huge beach of trust. I think that's unrealistic to think people choose who they fall in love with.

What they do choose are the actions they take in response to that. He could have stepped back. He could have told you. In my opinion, those were the breaches of trust. Not that he fell in love outside your relationship. You're angry at him about something he could not control.

And if you agree to try poly with him, you'll have to accept that the entire premise is that he can love someone other than you, and still love you just as much. Otherwise, you're not really talking about trying poly.

It's up to you to decide whether you can handle that.
 
Thank you for your question. Hmmm, in the time that I did not know about the emotional affair he did not treat me any different. Still loving and everything normal. On vacation I could sense some odd things. Our swinging is not something we are open about. One mutual longtime friend knows (we told her together) and I had asked him if he'd told anyone, such as H (used her name in the convo) I knew they were good friends so it would make sense if he had told her bit he'd told me months before vacation "No." He confessed on vacation that he had told H (I see a pattern of lying here) and set H and I up to talk about it if we wanted. This was weird to me in that why would I talk to her about this subject? Looking back I believe he was trying to get her and I talking and that the love they had for each other would come out in discussion. It did not come up and I was very superficial with the swinging discussion. Since he confessed his love for her he's been bending over backwards apologizing for not telling me first and going to her about it and for not telling me before the group vacation. He says he's trying to be understanding of my feelings. He has said that he's not remorseful for falling in love, this kills me inside, like my hearts been ripped out. It's crippling and painful to me. IMO if he'd taken more care of OUR relationship we would not be in this predicament. He doesn't see anything wrong with loving more than one person at a time. We are in counseling together (not cheap dammit!)

Thank you for answering. I just have a few comments that are not meant as criticism, but food for thought.

The reason I asked is to maybe help you understand that it is possible to love more than one person. Everyone here who is polyamorous will tell you that. Yes, your husband has feelings for another, but it did not take away from his feelings for you. You say he should have taken more care of your relationship, but you also say your relationship was all good. So your big problem is that he fell for someone else and didn't tell you immediately. By the same token he (apparently) did not act on those feelings before telling you. Can you see a little good in that part?

I think most swingers view it as a couples activity. That way they can control the situation, versus polyamory, which calls for some autonomy among partners. IMO, swingers may appear confident in their marriage on the outside, but are a bundle of insecurities on the inside. At least that was my experience. I do think it helps break that barrier of thinking monogamy is the only way. I think that is what led to your husband thinking it was okay to let those feeling develop. Again, the good thing is that he let you know about it (albeit clumsily) and didn't just act on it.

I do hope things work out, whether you decide to explore polyamory or not.
 
I don't know if this helps, but...

You really can't control who you fall in love with.

I'm in a situation myself, as the "other woman" I can tell you...

The man I fell in love with was NO ONE I had any intentions of falling in love with.

I sensed my feelings for him. I spent MONTHS, yes MONTHS, fighting it. I would walk for four hours a night, berating myself. I would do anything to avoid him. Now granted, given that I was in a very precarious position in my job, I could not admit my feelings for him to ANYONE, and transferring out was not an option.

It is absolute HELL to have feelings for someone "you're not supposed too". So coming from someone who tried to "not allow herself" to fall in love, I can tell you you lose, and lose big. I am not condoning any deceit or actions on his part, but I can tell you, it is something I would wish on no one from the bottom of my heart. I can't turn my feelings for the man I love off. And yes, there have been nights where I've prayed to god above to "flick a switch" and take them away.

So try to understand he really didn't mean for this to happen.

I hope you guys work things out. If you all can find it in your hearts to work it out, do so, because in the end, it could be a very very beautiful thing. It sounds like your husband really wants to be with you and work things out.

Good luck to you.
 
He did lie, which was a huge beach of trust. But that was an ACTON that damaged your marriage, not a FEELING. It wasn't his love for her that resulted in him lying to you: it was his fear of losing YOU and that's tied to his love of YOU.
Sorry Autumn, I don't see it as a huge breach of trust. He didn't act on it. He may have very well struggled with the thoughts, but kept it to himself. How many people are in LTR and can talk to their SO about that? When he hit a point that he could safely talk to his wife, Boom, a fight? Until my present wife I had had poly feelings that I did not understand, she is the first woman I can honestly talk too, I cherish that.
 
I am so sorry you hurt. :(

If it helps, I see three problems here.

We are both agreed that we will not form feelings of romantic "love" for our swinging partners.

1) This is not a realistic agreement that also ties into #3 below. Sharing sex can trip the attachment hormones in brain chemistry. It can also be tripped in other ways -- like being around a person lots and sharing things about themselves.

People sometimes mistake that brain chemistry for "love" -- but for sure it comes with a package of emotions they are not always prepared to deal with well. One cannot control how one feels. It bubbles up. One CAN control how one chooses to behave in response to those feelings.

2) Your husband felt something and chose to reveal it to the other party first when you would like to hear about it first. I am not hearing you guys have this agreement. Could you ask him if he's willing to tell you first about it? Rather than the other party first? And you promise to create safe space for telling. You promise not to freak out when he tells. I see this as an area to work on.

  • He had some coworker crush. That in of itself does not have to be a big deal. Feeling some things. He was wrong in revealing his feelings to her when you and he are not Open for that. That is behavior he tripped up on.
  • Now he has a new crush on this H person. Again he jumps the gun and tells her.

You guys could calmly talk about this and form expectations for behavior around this. Not around the feelings, but the BEHAVIOR.

I feel like I've lost our relationship, that it will never be the same again. I'm still in disbelief that he's let himself fall in love with another, that he didn't cherish our relationship enough to guard against something like this.

3) Don't make the mistake of pushing him away because you learn he has some crush things and handled them badly like the newbie he is. Don't push him away because you think the relationship or your picture of him is sullied somehow.

I think you might have 2 beliefs causing you pain that are being called to change.

  • One that is being called to change is your #2 belief that if he really loved you, he wouldn't get crushes or love other people. I think that's why you want him to apologize and be remorseful that he fell in love. If he did not experience this, then you would not have to challenge your belief and see if it still serves you well or not. You are hanging on to this belief. (Why? Maybe something to ask in counseling.)

    Meanwhile... What's he doing in his behavior?

    Since he confessed his love for her he's been bending over backwards apologizing for not telling me first and going to her about it and for not telling me before the group vacation.

    And he's attending counseling with you. He seems to be remorseful for his poor BEHAVIOR choices. Don't turn a blind eye to his present behavior. He's trying.

  • You are also having to challenge the belief that people can turn feelings on/off like a faucet. If he is experiencing crush/love feelings you expect him to turn it off. (See #1.) You are experiencing some unpleasant feelings right now. Can you turn them off like a faucet? No. I think you could benefit from updating that belief to "People can experience feelings that just bubble up. Sometimes unbidden. They cannot control the bubbling. What they can control is how they choose to behave in response to that feeling."

He and I are currently in counseling together. I'd love any and all thoughts on how to resolve all this, to help take my pain and anger away, to save our marriage.

I think you guys are doing the right thing in seeking counseling. It shows a commitment on both parts to returning to right relationship with each other.

You seem overwhelmed. I think you could slow it way down in counseling and address one layer at a time.

Changing core beliefs can be super uncomfortable. It can feel like the floor fell out from under you. I sympathize.

Guard against triggering yourself. For instance... What are you saving your marriage FROM? What is "attacking" it? Be careful you don't add to your stress by using triggery language. Clearly you value your marriage. But suffering growing pains now that you Opened to swing and are thinking about also being Open to poly... that's growing pains. Not attacks.

Work on self reassuring rather than self triggering. Remember that your husband seems to care deeply about you. 20+ years is nothing to sneeze at. Keep in mind your are NEW to swinging and to considering poly. Neither of you will be big experts at that kind of relating right off the bat and mistakes will happen. The old normal is gone and the new normal isn't totally settled in yet. It's ok for it to feel weird.

I think you could talk, work on updating your beliefs, be careful how you talk about your marriage so you are not self triggering anxieties. Then see if you want to explore poly or not. Just take care of this work BEFORE you go there. YKWIM? Don't rush into a poly something with H just because she's around.

Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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