Is ommission lying?

We feel that a lie by omission is still a lie. No matter how small. Now, does that mean that we tell each other EVERY LITTLE DETAIL of our day? Yes, pretty much we do.



Wow. My husband would go bat-shit crazy if I tried to tell him every little detail of my day. Not that I have been kissing anyone else... so there's not much to tell. I'd probably get sick of hearing about every little thing he did too. But I guess if you ARE seeing or fooling around with other people, telling every little detail is a policy that can work for some folks.
 
The reason my husband kept this information from me was to spare my feelings. He has felt very guilty for doing what he did because he knew it would hurt me deeply. He figured that it was over and done, he can't change what happened and telling me to ease his guilt would only hurt me. He wanted to take the brunt of the guilt to spare my feelings.

Am I hurt by what he told me - absolutely! I'm heartbroken. Everytime I walk past that room - I think of them having sex. Really sucks to have that reminder everyday in your own house. About 7 months ago - the 3 of us had sex in our bed because we didn't have time to go to a hotel. I did struggle with this decision for a long time - but I wanted to surprise my husband and this is where we had to do it. For a few weeks after - I thought about that a lot with a mixture of excitement and regret. A few months later - we got a new mattress (not because of that - ours was really old) but it did help me to not constantly think about it. With time - the thought went away. I know that this too will go away eventually. Of course, that's the room I keep and wrap Christmas gifts in - that will be a wonderful thing to think of next Christmas.

Now - if he cheated on me and didn't tell me - I do consider that ommission lying because he would be doing it to protect himself. In this case - I realize he did it to protect me, not to protect himself.

Kat
 
I know what you are saying ygirl. I don't have time to tell ever detail of my life to my partners, nor do I think its necessary. Sometimes though stuff comes up later that indicates I should've said something or now should say something because circumstances have changed.

For example, I met guys on line that flirted with, and when I met mono he asked that I end my flirting with them. I believed, at the time, that no man would be friends with me if I didn't flirt so I got rid of all of them. End of story I thought.

Well, wouldn't you know it, men actually do want to be friends with me, even if I don't flirt with them any more. One or two asked where I had gone and now I occationally talk to them as friends. I didn't tell Mono for a bit because I thought it would die out if I just didn't respond much. Eventually I told him because they weren't going away and I enjoy catching up ever now and then and seeing how they are doing. They enjoy talking to me too, even though there is no longer any flirting going on.
...
I agree with Dan, AK. I have lived with the guilt of cheating for years now. My ex never knew. I am so glad the burden has been mine and not his. In his eyes I still have integrity. I'm glad for that, but it does add to my guilt. Oh poor me. I'm glad to have not damaged him with not being able to trust people in his life.

He is married with two kids now and they are doing fine. Who knows what would be different for him and them. I just know that I can be proud that it wasn't on my head that he suffered mistrust because I was guilty. If I did anything right by cheating it was not telling him I had. I am proud of that.

Yup, I totally think that if you cheat the burden should be all yours.
 
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I like to know that when I ask a question that I'll get an honest answer. I don't need to know all the details of my partners' lives. I need to know who they are intimate with and if there is a possibility of anyone new coming on to the scene. Up until this point I haven't wanted to know any kind of details about what actually goes on or when it happens. I just want to know when the naked fun stage has been reached, just to be kept in the loop.

Things that I know will be a potential stumbling block I try to talk about before hand. One thing that came up yesterday was using our room for sex while both of us are in town. I have no particular attachment to my bed but I need to know that if I'm in town, even if I don't plan on being home, that if I need something at any time I can get into my room.

-Derby
 
Taking the topic literal.

My not so celebrated opinion,...

Omission is ALWAYS lying.

It is simply a matter of deciding if the lie justifies the means.

Not telling someone you are planning their 40th birthday party ? ....a given.

Not telling someone you don`t like their hair that day ? ...grey area depending on wether they asked for a opinion or not.

Not telling someone your full sexual history, but disguising it like, ' you didn`t want to hurt their feelings, by talking about all your former flames' ???...you`re now entering 'dickweed' territory.

Not telling your long-term partner you have been intimate with _______. (Because you are a scared/selfish/dellusional/secretive person ),.... ....Definite 'dickweed' territory.


That said, No one gets through life, being entirely 'dickweed-free' . The best thing is to ; 'Do what you know how to do, and when you know better, you do better.'...paraphrasing, but very true.
 
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Wow. My husband would go bat-shit crazy if I tried to tell him every little detail of my day. Not that I have been kissing anyone else... so there's not much to tell. I'd probably get sick of hearing about every little thing he did too. But I guess if you ARE seeing or fooling around with other people, telling every little detail is a policy that can work for some folks.
Yeah, we're a little weird....Wait...a LOT weird. For the last 10 years or so, we have worked together, so we are together almost 24 hrs a day. If we are apart, it's because we had to be for some odd reason. This doesn't happen often though. But we love it.
 
Ok whats everyones take on withholding truth to protect the person who could be hurt. Dan Savage. in a video. was talking about cheating (this point is not just his, I have heard this before, and am curious) He specifically said, unless it is being repeated, if you only cheated once and won't ever do it again, you shouldn't tell your spouse. You are simply passing the guilt onto the person it will hurt the most. Suck it up, keep it in and continue loving your partner :)

Just curious.


i used to have this same philosophy and I agree with Mon-the key word is repeated.
IF it's ONLY ONE TIME-and you learn the lesson and it never repeats, I'd have to agree.

BUT-that isn't what the situation usually is. It's kind of like saying "in a perfect world". Why bother? We don't live in a perfect world so who cares what we would do if we did?

In this REAL world that we live in-it is more likely if you keep it to yourself-that you will repeat it. So just get off your ass, admit you fucked up and do what you can to repair damage to those you damaged in the process...
 
Along the lines of "it's not lying if you believe it," I think "it's not omission if you don't believe it's wrong."

If you know you did something wrong and you intentionally withhold that information from your partner, that's a form of lying, regardless of the motivation (guilt or protection). But you might do something casually which isn't unethical to you but could turn out to be something major to your partner.

Example: putting $20 of your personal pocket money into a slot machine for fun and then walking away. If you have no history with gambling, then you were just having some harmless entertainment. But if your partner was the child of a gambling addict, then it would be a major problem that (a) you did it and (b) you didn't tell them. The partner may feel lied to, because they would be under the impression that you were intentionally trying to hide something, whereas you were just having fun, same as if you'd spent the $20 on mini golf. You wouldn't "confess" playing mini-golf, so why would it occur to you to confess playing the slots?
 
How can omission be lying? If the question asked is: did you have sex in the car? And the answer is "Yes" but the given answer is "no"...then yes a lie has occurred. If the questions is: did you have sex? And the answer is yes but you do not give the details well then it is omission. If the request is, "I would prefer you didn't have sex in my car." And the answer is, "Okay I won't have sex in your car." Lying would be if you have sex in the car after the request was made; omission would be the thought: "Well I already had sex in the car, telling her will annoy/upset/cause an unnecessary meltdown because there is no erasing history but I will not have sex in her car in the future."
That's my opinion. Not a fan of the open-ended question, why ask them if you don't want definite answers? (Wait...that's an open ended question! Scratch that opinion!:p)
 
The point is though that, if before you have sex in someones car, you think, "I don't think they will like that we are doing it," but you go and do it anyway, and then don't tell them.... That would be the omission I am talking about. And that to me is lying. I would not tell them after, because I don't think they should take my guilt burden on. I certainly would feel guilty and because I don't want to feel guilty, I wouldn't do it again.

Basically, for me, if I think someone won't like something and think it may make me feel guilty, then I don't do it because that guilt creates an energy that does harm to me and others. I start perseverating on it and it breaks the connection I have with someone. I prefer to have the deepest connections ever. Untampered with and pure. Quick releases are not worth it often. Its better to wait for better opportunities. As nerdist says, "go for great, not good in life."
 
I have to say that omission is lying for the most part. It depends on what you are leaving out. If you know the part you are leaving out will affect the outome then it is not an honest outcome because the person you are telling does not have all the facts and therefore makes an unfair judgement or decision. Without knowing everything, they are falsely being led down a path that they might not want or choose otherise.
 
Omitting means:

1 : something neglected, left out, or left undone
2 : the act, fact, or state of leaving something out or failing to do something


It's not a "bad" thing or a "good" thing.

I could omit the curse word from my sentence, that might be a good thing.
I could omit a detail that would confuse a situation, that might also be a good thing.

BUT if you omit something in an attempt to keep information from someone then you start getting into shady ground.

One of the things I read about when I decided to come out poly was about the difference between following rules "to the letter" or following "the heart" of a rule.

A rule is designed for a reason. In the example in this case MG, the reason was to protect something percieved as "sacred" to some degree to Kat. By omitting the fact that the thing to be protected had already been.... "used" (I lack a good word here sorry!)-while it may have been with the best of INTENTIONS-the omission went against the HEART of the rule she was requesting....

When we break the heart of a rule-we lose trust and we lose faith of the person who asked for the rule or expected the rule to be upheld.

The bottom line isn't "was it right" or "was it fair",
the bottom line is does this action (omiting or not omiting information) help myself and/or the other person to be the best that they can be.

GENERALLY speaking-omitting information to keep another from hurting-does NOT help myself or the other person to be the best that we can be.

Hurt is OFTEN the catalyst for growth-so if we keep the hurt from a person-we often are keeping the growth from them as well.

;)

Basically, for me, if I think someone won't like something and think it may make me feel guilty, then I don't do it because that guilt creates an energy that does harm to me and others. I start perseverating on it and it breaks the connection I have with someone. I prefer to have the deepest connections ever. Untampered with and pure. Quick releases are not worth it often. Its better to wait for better opportunities. As nerdist says, "go for great, not good in life."

Exactly (hadn't gotten to this page yet :eek:)

It's not about whether or not I'm "breaking a rule" it's about whether or not my actions are promoting me being the best I can be, the other person being the best that they can be (or other people) AND promoting the relationships to be the best that they can be.


FOR EXAMPLE:

There is no rule in MY relationship that says I can't flirt horribly with Mon. BUT Mon has a preference for certain behaviors-and it's OBVIOUS in person that if I were to jump into his arms and kiss all over him-he would be VERY uncomfortable.
THEREFORE-it's not about RULES-it's about making my relationship with Mon the best that IT can be and helpinge each of us be the best that we can be. I can do that better by NOT pushing those limits.
It doesn't MATTER if it would or would not bother RP-not because her feelings don't matter, they do, but there is ALREADY an negativity in the activity before her feelings (or Maca's or GG's are even brought in).

Does that make any sense?

It's really truly about the HEART of the matter. The biggest problem in these situations is that people are thinking about the heart of the matter TO THEM-and forgetting that there are more than two people involved, we need to think of the heart of the matter for EACH person involved, not just our own.
 
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It's all about trust. If you lie to me by saying something which is false, or if you intentionally withhold information for selfish reasons, you're betraying my trust. If I had a partner who routinely withheld information, I would not trust them, and that would be the end of the relationship.

I feel that people who deliberately omit details and claim it isn't lying do so in order to get away with things with a clean conscience. "Well, she never asked, so I didn't lie. I'm off the hook." I think that's a cop-out and pure bullshit. It means that you're only accountable for your actions if your partner is clever enough, or mistrusting enough, to ask you every conceivable detail. It puts the responsibility for your own behaviour into another person's hands by forcing them to think of every way you could betray them and ask you directly.

How can omission be lying? If the request is, "I would prefer you didn't have sex in my car." And the answer is, "Okay I won't have sex in your car." Lying would be if you have sex in the car after the request was made; omission would be the thought: "Well I already had sex in the car, telling her will annoy/upset/cause an unnecessary meltdown because there is no erasing history but I will not have sex in her car in the future."

Lying is an act of communication. Having sex in the car after the request was made is breaking a promise.

Ultimately, who really cares whether it's "technically" lying? What's more important is that it's a breakdown in communication, and good communication is critical to maintaing a relationship. LR hit the nail on the head. It's about the heart of the matter, not the letter of the law. I think we all agree that if someone rapes a 12 year old but leaves no evidence, he is still a guilty piece of shit, and we would all want justice for that little girl even though the letter of the law says he's innocent since we can't prove his guilt.
 
Precisely Schroeder.

It's not the letter of the law (I couldn't think of those words yesterday!) It's about the HEART of the matter.
 
All valid answers. The most interesting I thought was when someone said omission is actually preventing the person you are "protecting" from growing. True.
 
That was me.
I learned that lesson the hard way.
Much much easier to learn by hearing people say it than by trying it yourself.
 
this response pertains to omission of partners or sexual relations or attraction btw,
In my honest opinion... unless you and your partner(s) have a "don't ask don't tell" policy.... then yeah omission is lying.
but by the same token, i get the "but he/she never asked"
i mean, relationships are confusing as it is, throw in the poly lifestyle and it can get a whole lot more! especially if you involve "old flames" or if you have communication issues in the primary relationship to begin with.
I get why some people do not tell all when it pertains to attractions or relationships or sexual encounters... sometimes it can be out of fear. fear of pain, fear of loss.... fear of facing problems head on.
I think whether it is something as simple as "i'm considering the possibility another relationship" and not telling your partner until you know for sure or if it is the ultimate omission in a relationship of "i had sex with this person"...omission is not trusting the other person or respecting the other person to be able to handle the situation (as previously mentioned in this thread by somebody else) but is it wrong? I don't think so. Is it the best course of action to take, no it is not.
as somebody who struggles with the "why" of actions and feelings in order to work thru them, i can understand "why" you'd not tell all the facts but by the same token... is the short term gain of not telling all worth the long term pain of it being found out later on after the fact and then the damage has been done that you actively hid something... because that is what omisson is... actively hiding. you possess knowledge you know the other partner should have, but are withholding it.
but then again, if you look to the person who "omitted" something... where they really actively hiding? or were they constantly tryign to find ways to say it but simply lacked the words or the strength to "cop up" becausae of confusion....
i agree with an earlier post... there is no "right" or 'wrong" when it comes to omission because you need to look at the person's intentions, their actions, their heart, and the situation.
omitting a sexual fling because you just wanted to have fun and broke a rule and dont want your partner to find out.. wrong.
omitting a sexual fling because you have communication issues in your relationhsip and have tried to tell your partner but have fallen short each time...
grey area
omitting an attraction to a person because you are in a monogamous realtionship and don't want to hurt your partners feelings...
grey area
omitting the fact that you don't like strawberries cause your partner went to the huge trouble of making you a strawberry shortcake from scratch for your birthday cake...
yeah,
soooo much grey.
is omission lying, yeah. is it wrong, i dont think so. is it the best action to take hells no!
look to the person's heart, work thru the issue, admit it was not the best action to take but that you see "why" and move on to a better relationship because of it.
 
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In general, I feel like omission is lying. I'm not talking about omission in the sense of not telling your partner(s) about every tiny aspect of your day. That's just silly, I'd be lying all the time by being unable to remember everything. I mean, willfully not saying something because you either know or worry it's going to cause some kind of upset or just get you in trouble.

I used to be like that. I'd try to reason ways I could NOT tell my partner something because I worried it would upset him. I'd try to tell myself it was for a noble reason or for "not hurting him," but that's a falsehood. I was only sparing myself from dealing with the fallout for something stupid I did. I find it's better to own up and accept the blame if I did wrong rather than trying to get around it. And that to me is just selfish and now how I want to conduct myself. Communication is hard enough without keeping important things to yourself.

The way we deal with it is we try to use our better judgment. I ask myself, "Is this something my partner would like to know? Am I doing something that would betray his trust or hurt his feelings?" We try to keep one another in our thoughts and make the best decisions. Ultimately, it's situational and it depends on the individual in question. For instance, I know my boyfriend prefers total honesty, even if he knows it might hurt him. Now, I'm very much the same way. I'd rather know about it, deal with it and move on.

It's safe to say I know for the most part when my partner would want to know something. And if I'm at all unsure, I'll bring it up anyway. Then at least I know if it's something he'd care to know in the future.
 
unless you and your partner(s) have a "don't ask don't tell" policy.... then yeah omission is lying.

actually, to me, anyone that practices this policy is actually lying to themselves... lying that their primary relationship has a loving leg to stand on anymore... at least from what I have seen.
 
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