How to handle being vetoed or being on the bad end of an ultimatum

AlwaysGrowing

Well-known member
I was dating a guy for a few months. Not too long, we started talking in July-ish, met for the first time in August. It progressed quickly. Normally it takes me around 6 months to even start THINKING I might love someone. With him... I just knew so soon.

His primary partner, however, doesn't agree with how I approach relationships. Or she doesn't understand or something. After who knows how many arguments between them, an epic failure at me trying to talk to her and see if we could find SOME common ground, and all kinds of upset for everyone involved... She told him it was her or me. They've been together for years, live together, obviously plan to spend their lives together, so I knew what the choice would be if it came to it. I sincerely hoped it wouldn't, but it did so now we have to deal with it.

It just happened a few days ago. He and I have still been talking. Figuring out if we need to just stop completely and let each other go, at least for the foreseeable future. Or if we continue talking everyday and try to keep the connection we both value. Or something in between.

I'm so torn between not wanting to completely lose this man that I love. I am normally very guarded emotionally, but I have opened up to him in ways I never expected. I can hear the pain in his voice when we talk on the phone. The guilt. The sadness. The love.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas, opinions, or advice. Breakups suck, sure, but this one feels a million times worse because I have no idea what I did that so upset her. It feels like she is just insecure and unwilling to actually let him love someone else, even though he obviously still adores her.

Any feedback would be awesome.
 
Sigh. .... ultimatum s are never a good idea. Clearly, if you and he are still talking, the choice is NOT so obvious-- and now she knows it :p
 
it sucks ...

it sucks and hurts for things to end that way but if your still talking, it hasnt really ended.
I have to ask - what were the fights about?
what part of your relationship scared her that she felt the need to veto it?
How long have they been poly?
has she done this before?
does she know you are still talking every day?
 
it sucks and hurts for things to end that way but if your still talking, it hasnt really ended.

We're still talking, but mostly just to figure out if it's even feasible to be in each others' lives at this point or not.

I have to ask - what were the fights about?

She was pretty insecure from the beginning. She felt like he wasn't showing her enough attention/love. That he was putting my desires before her feelings. That we were treating each other too much like primaries instead of what it was - two people feeling the intensity of NRE and trying to curb it as much as possible. Even after we drastically cut down how much we were texting, he didn't see me for two weeks because she "needed" him to stay home (even though she was going out), etc. she didn't feel like he showed her properly that he loves her.

what part of your relationship scared her that she felt the need to veto it?

My guess? The fact that we were in love. What does she say? That I was setting myself up to be another primary and didn't respect their relationship as the most important thing ever. Regardless of my multiple attempts to figure out what she needed to feel like I was respecting her/her relationship with him and the attempts to curb NRE in general mentioned above.

How long have they been poly?
They were open for about 2-3 years. Just opened up to the idea of polyamory and not just sexual experiences about 9 months ago.

has she done this before?

She disapproved of one person he dated and cared about intensely before me. It wasn't LOVE, but it easily could have been if they had more time. The other woman was monogamous, though, so an actual veto wasn't used. He realized that it wasn't going to work long term and ended it.

There was also once when they were just open to sexual things that he started to fall for someone. He completely cut her out of his life (willingly after his primary pointed out the emotional attachment he was developing since that wasn't part of the arrangement at the time), and regrets it to this day.

does she know you are still talking every day?

Since there has still been a touch of interaction in public spheres like facebook... She should be very aware of it. I haven't straight out asked him, but he isn't one to hide the fact that he is trying to figure out how to adjust to meet her demands.
 
This is why I hate the whole primary/secondary relationship model, and really hate a veto clause.

Good luck.. IMO run do not pass go do not collect $200. As long as she is in his life she is going to micromanage every relationship he is in. Really is the headache worth it.
 
Sigh. .... ultimatum s are never a good idea. Clearly, if you and he are still talking, the choice is NOT so obvious-- and now she knows it :p

This made me smile, by the way. Thanks.

It's an obvious choice because their lives are so entangled. I have my serious concerns for the relationship itself, but I knew he wouldn't consider leaving her or take the risk of her leaving at this point in time.
 
This is why I hate the whole primary/secondary relationship model, and really hate a veto clause.

Good luck.. IMO run do not pass go do not collect $200. As long as she is in his life she is going to micromanage every relationship he is in. Really is the headache worth it.

Ugh, me, too! I don't understand causing someone you love pain on purpose. Which is what she's doing. I also don't understand quantifying love. If I love someone, I love them. I don't love them more or less than I love my husband. I may love them differently because I'm not going to be able to give them the same things as I can give someone I live with and see everyday and have known and been with for almost a decade, but yeah. Love is love. Probably what she doesn't like about me, huh?

In this situation, though... I wonder if the headache is worth it. To maintain a friendship of sorts with him. I don't find people I truly care about often. I don't want to lose it completely.
 
From your description, it sounds as if there is any love involved, then that is not "respecting" their relationship.

If this is true, he will eventually realize it - if he hasn't already. What gets done about probably will be determined by how they are as a couple. If she can't handle it, and they can function as mono, they could close the relationship. But if they cannot, and she can't overcome her insecurities, this will eventually become unsustainable.
 
In this situation, though... I wonder if the headache is worth it. To maintain a friendship of sorts with him. I don't find people I truly care about often. I don't want to lose it completely.

This is the only part of this situation you have any control over. You can only decide how *you* are going to respond to these situations which are entirely out of your control.

My answer is very easy, "Awe Heeeeeeell Naw", but you have to figure out how much nonsense you are willing to put up with.
 
From your description, it sounds as if there is any love involved, then that is not "respecting" their relationship.

If this is true, he will eventually realize it - if he hasn't already. What gets done about probably will be determined by how they are as a couple. If she can't handle it, and they can function as mono, they could close the relationship. But if they cannot, and she can't overcome her insecurities, this will eventually become unsustainable.

This makes sense to me. She started acting weird about us going out when he first said he had strong feelings for me (before he said the word love, but it was an obvious sign it was coming). Then after I said I love him, too, it got significantly worse.

What I don't understand is... She has been seeing a guy for most of the time they've been poly. A man she claims to love deeply. Expecting it to be okay for her to have that kind of relationship yet cutting it off whenever he gets close to really being comfortable with someone else... It just feels icky to me!

I hate that he is in a relationship that I feel is so incredibly unhealthy, yet I don't feel like I have the right to say anything about it, because my only experience with it is as a disliked secondary - not really the best position to get a well-rounded idea of what someone is really like. He knows I think it's unfair. He knows I don't get how she could put him through this. He agrees with me on both counts.
 
This makes sense to me. She started acting weird about us going out when he first said he had strong feelings for me (before he said the word love, but it was an obvious sign it was coming). Then after I said I love him, too, it got significantly worse.

What I don't understand is... She has been seeing a guy for most of the time they've been poly. A man she claims to love deeply. Expecting it to be okay for her to have that kind of relationship yet cutting it off whenever he gets close to really being comfortable with someone else... It just feels icky to me!

I hate that he is in a relationship that I feel is so incredibly unhealthy, yet I don't feel like I have the right to say anything about it, because my only experience with it is as a disliked secondary - not really the best position to get a well-rounded idea of what someone is really like. He knows I think it's unfair. He knows I don't get how she could put him through this. He agrees with me on both counts.

I read an article once in which the author talked about why poly wasn't for him (?) and concluded that "there is no place in poly for jealous hypocrites."

....unfortunately, there is :p
 
Sounds likento me she doesn't respect you or your relationship. I would move on, perhaps someday your paths will cross again but I would never attempt a relationship with him as long as he's with her
 
I am so sorry. This stinks. :(

If you entered into a primary-secondary model as the secondary? That's the price of admission. There's pros/cons to every model.

Sounds like she's in poly hell to me.

And not really secure/sure of herself and her skills. :confused:

What I don't understand is... She has been seeing a guy for most of the time they've been poly. A man she claims to love deeply. Expecting it to be okay for her to have that kind of relationship yet cutting it off whenever he gets close to really being comfortable with someone else... It just feels icky to me!

Different skillset used.
  • When she has a BF, the skillset of "Being a GF person" is employed.
  • When he has a GF, the skillset of "Being the Metamour person" is employed.

She might have great GF skills. But weak metamour skills.

I hate that he is in a relationship that I feel is so incredibly unhealthy, yet I don't feel like I have the right to say anything about it, because my only experience with it is as a disliked secondary - not really the best position to get a well-rounded idea of what someone is really like. He knows I think it's unfair.

Sure you do. You have the right to set your own limits. You can set your own limit for what you will/will not participate in. Maybe something like...

"I think the relationship you are in with her seems unhealthy. Since what happens there can affect me in the polymath? I'm stepping out of the line of fire.

I'm stepping aside until you figure what you would like out. I am not the guy to figure yourself out with. I am too close on this one.

I'm giving you space to do whatever problem solving you need to do on the (you relating to yourself) tier.

I am giving you space to do whatever problem solving you need to do on the (you + her) tier.

I am willing to do conflict resolution if it helps on the (her dealing with (you + me) tier. So that (you + me + her) tier of relating can be respectful.

I am not willing to participate in never ending wacky though. Please let me know when I can expect an update and if none by that date, I could expect to let this go."​

He knows I don't get how she could put him through this. He agrees with me on both counts.

Again... different skills sets used in the different roles she's got in this polyship. She's a hinge, a GF to two people, and a metamour to you.

Again... she could be in poly hell and not able to articulate what she needs from herself, from him, or from you to move it forward.

Emotional change is hard. Might be easier to undertake when she's the GF rather than the metamour.

That said, it isn't call for her to rain abuses on others so... you guys could sort yourselves out. Decide how you want to be -- still in polyship or not?

Is she willing/able to try again? What things or behaviors blocks her willingness? Her ability? Can they be removed/improved?
Is he willing/able to try again? What things or behaviors blocks his willingness? His ability? Can they be removed/imrpoved?
Are you willing/able to try again? What things or behaviors blocks your willingness? Your ability? Can they be removed/improved?

But before that... you could assess which sucks less for YOU?

  • Letting this go at this time and dealing with break up feelings?
  • Or trying again with people you know need to grow some skills?

Only you know your own willingness to continue to participate. :eek:

Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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I don't like strict primary-secondary models. He knew this when we first met. The way HE perceived their relationship was that they were primary in the sense that their relationship gets the most time, attention, and devotion. That everything will be dropped, temporarily, when there is a crisis with the other. Other than that, their time was supposed to be their own to do with what they pleased and develop relationships that fit around the schedule they already had with each other, work, school, family, etc.

The way SHE seems to use the term secondary is that it is a relationship purely for fun, with no needs. If a date is made and cancelled, a secondary has no right to be upset or sad because - hey, they're only a secondary, not a real partner with feelings!

So... Yeah. I don't see myself making that mistake again. I understand a relationship getting a certain level of preferential treatment because of how involved lives get, but I do NOT understand or agree with treating someone like they aren't important because the love is new or they are simply new to the equation.

He and I will never have a romantic relationship again. It's not an option - for me personally because I would never put myself through that stuff again or for him because she would never allow it. The only way this would change would be if their relationship ended. Even then... He allowed someone else to dictate who he can see. I'm not sure I can really respect him after that.

I care about his happiness. A lot. I am going to try to see if we can be friends of sorts. I don't really expect success. I actually expect myself to reconsider and go the smart route of just moving on completely in a week or so. Gives me a week to wean myself off of the idea that I had in my mind of him being around for a while.
 
Good.... Glad you have made a choice for yourself. You decided that breaking up is less sucky than continuing. Now that that is clear, you can know how to move forward from there.

Stinks, but stinkage with an end point! :eek:

Do what you need for immediate self care -- good sleep, nutritious eats, clear your head, lean on local friends, etc. Basics.

Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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The only way this would change would be if their relationship ended. Even then... He allowed someone else to dictate who he can see. I'm not sure I can really respect him after that.

I feel you on that one. I think you're right in breaking it off...not because SHE made you, but because do you really want to be with a person who allows another human being to tell him how he can and can't feel?
 
Getting vetoed must suck. However, I think you did have clear enough signs that these kind of control and trust issues were part of their relationship. Or to be less cynical, it was obvious that they werent compatible with the type of polyamory you seek.

This is why one must avoid anyone in a relationship where a metamour has control over how, when and where you interact.
 
The way SHE seems to use the term secondary is that it is a relationship purely for fun, with no needs. If a date is made and cancelled, a secondary has no right to be upset or sad because - hey, they're only a secondary, not a real partner with feelings!

Ouch. You're just a plaything?

Good call to exit that situation, but breakups do suck. Good luck regaining your balance.
 
Polyamory isn't so much about one's ability to have multiple relationships as it is about one's ability for their partners to have multiple relationships. Many people profess Polyamory when what they really want is a harem. Which is also okay if everyone is on the same page. It would save a lot of heartache if people would just be honest and accurate about what they want.

I'm sorry you went through this and hopefully you'll find what you're looking for.
 
I avoid veto situations like the plague.. I don't care what the situation, I walk away. I prefer to date adults who are mature enough to respect EVERYONE involved in a relationship.
 
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