swallowing pride, for better or for worse

so here i am, day.... well, roughly 7 or something like that.

today, I'm feeling pretty good, better than yesterday and much better than the day before that. we are probably going to see geanbean's new (not official yet) boyfriend this weekend, and I'm very much looking forward to it. whether there will be sex or not is still up in the air, but only time will tell. I'm feeling much better about them having sex now, and though i can't say I'm perfectly fine with it yet, I'm beginning to feel much better about it.

I only have 3 1/2 months until i am allowed to start dating etc. as well. That is at the end of august. we've been talking this for 8 1/2 months now, and the inabilities/inequalities are wearing thin. That being said, i am doing my best to swallow my pride, hence the thread.

I really hope she is ready by then. i'm doing my best not to push, and let her feel however she needs to feel before i offer any advice. If she's not ready by then, i don't know what to do, she read the "How To Fix a Broken Refrigerator" story, and that's when she decided she wanted time to figure out why it hurt her me wanting other people. We decided on a time frame as well, and that will be late august.

But what if she isn't ready? then what? do i let her have more time, and wined up in a never ending "i need more time" scenario. Or do i do what i want, knowing it's breaking her heart?

I'd like to hear some responses. When the time comes, whether she says she's ready or not, is it ok for me to hold her to her promise?
 
But what if she isn't ready? then what? do i let her have more time, and wined up in a never ending "i need more time" scenario. Or do i do what i want, knowing it's breaking her heart?

I'd like to hear some responses. When the time comes, whether she says she's ready or not, is it ok for me to hold her to her promise?

Then you have to decide what's more important - your need/desire (which is it?) for other partners or her feelings about it. Personally, as long as a partner was making an effort to get over his/her issues, I would try to wait. Depending on the depth of the commitment I have with that partner and assuming that I'm in love. If there were no effort, I would assume the relationship wasn't important and would cut my losses and move on.

I also have an inherent problem with inequality in relationships. I am pretty demanding in my relationships in that I require equal opportunities. I have to at least have the option of doing anything my partner does even if I have no desire for it - if he/she has other sexual relationships then I can have other sexual relationships, if he/she has other romantic partners then I can have other romantic partners, if he/she needs time to deal with the idea of me doing stuff then he/she needs to take a break from doing the equivalent stuff. I don't do well with rules that aren't equal, so I don't agree to them. You obviously are different from me in that regard (probably a good thing... lol I'm high maintenance). :D


It's hard to put a time frame on how long someone has to get over a specific issue. Some people can deal with things in a week, others take years. How long are you willing to wait? She can't MAKE you do anything, just like you can't make HER do anything. The choice is and always has been and will be yours. You just have to decide how important each thing is to you - would you be okay if Genebean decided she'd be okay with you being with other people but not for another year? Two years? Five years? What if she doesn't think she'll EVER be ready?

She is not the only one who has to figure out what will be acceptable in your relationship.
 
Is she actively working on working towards being OK with you having other partners? In your place I'd say I was feeling chafed by the rules being different for both of us, and that I wanted to check in every 4 weeks to see if they had decided to try to be OK if I dated also. Let her know that if she needs the 3.5 months you're not taking that back, but that you'd be pretending if you acted like it wasn't stressing you out that she has a sex partner and you don't have the same freedom. (how long has it been since you said you were going to give her time?)

For me, I might give somebody more time at the end of that time 3.5 months if they weren't having sex with somebody else themselves. However, I'd find it extremely hypocritical and perhaps even cruel to be OK having a partner themselves but not agreeing it's OK for me to. Since she is, I'm guessing there's about a 85% chance I would start dating then. I'd take it slow and carefully so she could see I was trying to take her feelings into consideration and she could trust me to communicate, stick to our agreements, and understand I wasn't going to run all over her feelings in the throes of NRE.

I wouldn't "do whatever I wanted" in August either, but I'd adopt the same rules and behaviors as my partner had. If they had casual sex, I'd feel it was right for me to do so if I wanted. If they were uncomfortable with that but fine dating and romancing somebody, I'd feel that it was right for me to be able to date and romance somebody too. If they spend the night with somebody? Should be OK for me too. I would be OK agreeing to less than than equal boundaries for each of us though if I could tell my partner was making an effort and reaching outside their comfort zone. I think being willing to stay within agreements often lets people move their comfort zone rather quickly once they feel they can trust their partner.

I hope you two are able to work things out, and try not to get too caught up feeling like the situation is unbalanced, but focus on where she is trying. I don't often hear "I need time to be OK with poly so don't date yet" going hand in hand with "I am going to date while I figure out if I can be OK with you dating". I imagine some of this is based on feelings surrounding the behavior with that couple where it "appeared" you put their feelings ahead of hers, and didn't trust her opinion about what she felt happened. If you can really make her feel you wont do that again, it will probably go a long ways towards putting her at ease.
 
How does her dating/ fucking other equal her working on her issue of you doing the same.

It sounds like a tactic. You go first....you'll see ...it will be fun exciting, intoxicating and I'll show you it won't change our relationship. I'll show you how I handle the jealousy ..if any. Then once you're in ...hooked on nre...I can start up and proceed the way I wanted. Tactically its good ...she went first....you're the bigger person, you got the guilt of that, the NRE,...establishment and connection of a new relationship, etc. All hard to walk away from even if you don't prove your point.

Also.... shallowing ones pride is doing something that you would consider humiliating. So are you saying that allowing her to have sex with others is humiliating only if you not doing the same.

This plan seems more like a setup. Give me another example in another area of life in which this type of plan would be used ...and it would work.

And what difference is there in the amount of time. Is it a slow desensitization process or a light bulb moment.....yeah I get it now.
 
nycindie, I suppose I deserve that in lu of past events. But I really do want relationships, not just other sexual partners. I feel as though if she cannot handle me having sex with others, how could she possibly handle love, or making love for that matter?

dingedheart, I don't think swallowing pride is only confined to that which is humilliating, I believe it is also giving up something which makes you feel good. When you work with someone you cannot stand and severely disagree with, you have to swallow a little pride. (That's just an example, i'm not saying I feel like that about my girlfriend.)

as for the "plan" being a set up, you are right about the, "see, you can love two people" kind of thing. But I do want to show her that can be true. I can talk about it all I want, but sometimes true knowledge is not communicable. You can be told the stove is hot all day long, but you never wil really know until you put your hand on it.

and the intoxicating effects of nre, as nice as they can be, have little effect on relationships which are based merely on experementing sexually. As for the other relationships which she may encounter, she has a good head on her shoulders, and nre intoxication will not get her better judgement.
 
soo, this weekend...

as time goes by, more and more, I think she wants to be poly/open herself, but doesn't want to/can't deal with the idea of me being poly/open. She bacame very upset about it this weekend, and kept telling me it was because she isn't good enough. I don't know how to convince her otherwise.

the thing I don't understand is when she has her defenses down, she does fine with the idea, even encourages it. But to get the defenses down is next to impossible. It sometimes takes liquid courage, or other inebhreating substances to let down her guard. Once that hapens, she is not only ok with the idea, but very much encourages it.

the question I suppose then, is how to get the defenses/inhibitors down without the mind alterers. Hmmm, most intriguing.
 
why is there such a line between genders?

that is when it comes to sex? Most guys I suppose would probably consider their girlfriend/wife having a three some with another person assuming it's a woman. Many wemen would consider having a three some with their boyfriend/husband, assuming it's with a girl. But why nothing else? Why the damned defining line between the two genders?

i'm just so frustrated. She's perfectly fine (so she says) with me having sex with another man. (just to clarify, i'm not bi, but I believe whatever happens in the heat of the moment is ok.) but she can't stand the idea of me with another woman. I don't know how to help her understand that it has nothing to do with any inadiquicies of her own.

I feel like she is beginning to hate me for wanting to be poly.
 
this has been a rough day. I can't feel guilty for looking at other wemen. So i'm not going to anymore. I'm no longer going to feel guilty for having sexual desires for anyone else. Or even for masterbating any more, it does me no good, and it is only natural. I'm not going to feel guilty anymore, and she can't make me. I'll wait the time agreed upon before dating/being anything more than friends with anyone else, we agreed on a boundary, and i'm not going to break it. But when that time comes, i'm not going to feel guilty about it, and in the mean time, i'm not going to feel guilty or ashamed for having other desires.
 
this has been a rough day. I can't feel guilty for looking at other wemen. So i'm not going to anymore. I'm no longer going to feel guilty for having sexual desires for anyone else. Or even for masterbating any more, it does me no good, and it is only natural. I'm not going to feel guilty anymore, and she can't make me. I'll wait the time agreed upon before dating/being anything more than friends with anyone else, we agreed on a boundary, and i'm not going to break it. But when that time comes, i'm not going to feel guilty about it, and in the mean time, i'm not going to feel guilty or ashamed for having other desires.

Good for you. I've always found it silly to guilt anyone I was in a relationship with for finding other women desirable. My ex ALWAYS felt bad about it, without my help. I would encourage the acknowledgement but I guess it just registered as 'cheating' in his mind.
 
Wow! Interesting thread. Let me add my 24 beans:

I came here straight from another thread about a guy wanting freedom to screw with others, but refusing his wife (gf?) that same freedom. You can read my comment here. But I see a difference here: your gf seems to see her unwillingness to share you with others as a weakness on her part, a weakness that she has (has she?) committed herself to working on. She agreed to a foursome in the past, if not very happily. The fact that it went so badly (that the other couple were arseholes) has increased her wariness/fear.

I would lose all my respect for MYSELF if I were to say: "I'm allowed to do this but you're not". I think it's highly hypocritical. This means that I can really feel for you, polypenguin. On the other side, I know what a struggle it was for me to battle my own jealousies and my inferiority complex when I was younger, and I hope that I could be patient with a partner who needed her time to get used to the idea. I also think that women are probably bombarded more (while growing up and as adults) with insidious messages designed to rob them of courage and self-esteem.

HOWEVER, there's a limit. You write that you've set a date for the end of this adjustment period. What exactly are the terms of this end?

a) Is she allowed to say: "No, I'm sorry. I just can't handle the idea of your being with somebody else, so - in order to be fair - I'll give up MY other relationships"? If you both agreed that this would be an option, then you've got to stick to it, but I think that you, polypenguin, are going to feel burned. ("At least she got her chance to get it out of her system.") And (more cynically on my part, but I've seen several cases of this), she might SAY that she's giving them up, in order to avoid the hurt of you being poly... but she might continue the relationships on the sly ("because I can't stop loving them"). This is called CHEATING and DISHONESTY.

b) Or have you decided that - once this adjustment period is over - you're allowed to start dating whether she's ready for that or not? Again, if you both agreed to that, then SHE's got to stick to it... but SHE's going to be hurt.

I think that you really need to have "extensive and meaningfull talks" about that 4-some incident:
a couple weeks later, while staying over (though not sleeping with) that same couple, my girlfriend overheard a conversation between the two of them, where he said to his wife, (talking about me) "you need to go in there an fuck the shit out of him so she'll leave." Given, neither of us hang around with them anymore.
I think that you need to make clear to her that you were as disgusted by that attitude as she was. And here's what you really need to get across: that you love her and would never do anything to hurt her on purpose. We all have to accept that a bit of pain is wrapped up in the whole Love thang, it's [almost] unavoidable, but you 1) love her deeply, truly; 2) have NO intention of leaving her; 3) have NO intention of looking for somebody "better" than her... But fair is fair, and she's got to see that. Invite her to read this thread, read our comments. (I just hope that she isn't going to hate me, that she'll see that I sincerely have her best interests and her long-term happiness at heart as much as yours. Hell, I don't know either of you. Why should I take sides? I just know - from personal experience - that jealous, insecure people aren't very happy. And I'd like for her to be happy.)

One final question: Is your desire for poly freedom theoretical and based on needs for equality in your relationship, or are you actually already in love with somebody else? From here I'm about to jump into another thread: "Is it just me, or is this becoming more about sex only?" I never tire of repeating that - for me - poly's more about Love than about sex.

If you've got serious feelings for somebody else in particular and aren't being allowed to act on them, this must be even harder on you. I wish ALL of you the best!
 
Many wemen would consider having a three some with their boyfriend/husband, assuming it's with a girl.
Not me. My ideal threesome is with two men. I'm straight. Lots of straight women have threesomes or moresomes without there being another woman involved. Why make such broad generalizations? Try not to see things in such a limited way. You are so-o-o focused on sex. I really don't see your issues as having to do with polyamory, but more about casual sex.
 
But fair is fair, and she's got to see that. Invite her to read this thread, read our comments. (I just hope that she isn't going to hate me, that she'll see that I sincerely have her best interests and her long-term happiness at heart as much as yours. Hell, I don't know either of you. Why should I take sides? I just know - from personal experience - that jealous, insecure people aren't very happy. And I'd like for her to be happy.)

Polypenguin's gf is a member here - username is Genebean - and her threads about their situation are here:

ugh. Tough stuff.

confused/upset you name it..
 
nycindie, you're right, i guess i didn't realize i was making such broad generalizations. that said, i still think many people are incredibly male/female based. Sex with one is fine, but the other is a big no-no.

Ok just to clarify: when i say "sex," i mean dating, infatuation, etc. I don't just want intercourse, i want more love, more people to share my life with. i don't feel that love is a zero sum game, that is, i don't feel that one can only love one person.

The reason i talk mainly about sex, is because i feel if she can't deal with me having sex with another female, how could she deal with me being in love with another? once more to clarify for the future, from now on, i'll say love, not only sex.

so, to clear up where i'm at, I want to LOVE other people. It's important to me to do so. i want her to love other people. I don't have any intention or desire to leave her. She means more than i can say. That is why this is difficult for me, i can't leave her. That's why I'm giving her the time she needs.


Ok MrFarFromRight, I'd like to start off and say, thankyou. i really liked your post. I can't say i really have the answer to any of your questions, that is, i'm not sure once her time runs out i'm going to be like, "Ready or not, i'm going out to do _____." I love her, and i can't see myself just doing what i want, and letting her deal with it. At the same time, i can't see myself in a strictly mono relationship either.

If she's going to be with other people, i'm going to as well. That's not to say i won't give her the time agreed upon. I think that's only fair. this relationship is imbalanced right now, and that's ok, but i can't let it be that way forever. It wouldn't be fair for either of us.
 
some of genebean's family is a little difficult to get along with. They hate anyone who is different, and anyone who won't band to what they want.

because of that, her family doesn't like me. Well half of the familt doesn't. We live, until august, with her mother. Don't misunderstand, we all pay equal rent, and got the house together. After nine months, momma bear realized she can't take our lifestyle. Much of this has to do with influence from the unfavorable side of the family. Two of the sisters are real well, bitches.

my point being, genebean is taking her mom moving out hard. We were going to move out when the lease was up anywho, but she feels her mom wants nothing to do with her. Which is debatable. So she's in a hard place right now. Probably the most difficult place in her life. Because of which, I think I may have to let her push back opening up our relationship. I'm not happy about it, in fact i'm very very upset about it, but she'll be cutting her ties with her mom one week, and opening a relationship the next. I think that'll be a little too much for her. Damnit, this waiting is really wearing thin.
 
I feel like someone who is bi-polar. And I feel like she takes every time I mention another person in this relationship out on me. More and more, I feel like she hates me for this.

I don't feel like she trrusts me with anyone but her. I don't feel like i'm allowed to be with friends unless she's around. And I feel more lonely now than I ever have in my life. I don't think she has any desire to deal with her jealousy, because it's easier for her to be complacent. She's fine with her other partners being with other people, but not me.

I don't know how to deal with this, and it's breaking my heart.
 
So when are you gonna stand up for yourself and voice all of this? And demand better of this relationship and for you individually?
 
well,

unfortunately I can't just bark orders at someone to get what I want. It would certainly be easier if I could, but I can't. She knows what I want, but I have to let her deal with her issues before that can happen. My problem is how to do myself justice in the mean time.
 
How did you equate demanding better to barking orders at your gf? That's not what I meant at all. The thing of it is, until you are firm within yourself and also on your position in this relationship, you are at her whim.

I think it's important that you work through your issues with self-esteem and self-defeat, whether she's working through her jealousy or not.
 
my apologies, merely my interpretation.

my self esteem is the best it's been in my life. it is and almost always has been pretty good. I'm a little confused as to what makes you believe differently. the reason I'm not demanding a completely equal relationship right now is not because she intimidates me or anything like that, it is because she asked for time to take care of her issues. I will admit, i don't care for the inequality, but it is only for a few more months.

I'm not quite sure how she is dealing with her issues. specifically jealousy and her self-esteem (specifically that she won't stop believing i want poly because of some negative attribute she thinks she possesses). I take several types of dance classes (ballet, tap, and jazz not to put too fine a point on it), and every time i go to dance class, she gets upset. she feels like I'm only going because of the girls. Given, their nice, and some of them are eye candy, but that's not the reason i go. i go because i very much enjoy dancing. and even if the girls were the major draw, i think she should be ok with that, right?

i made her a promise not to do anything with anyone but her until the time agreed upon. shouldn't that be enough? i have never broken a promise to her, not like that. i mean after all, the world is filled with attractive people, i would have no more or less chance cheating with any girls from ballet then from a yoga class, or the mall for that matter.

i am no longer going to try and convince her i love her or that this is not because she isn't good enough. i've tried to convince her more than four years, and i'm still not sure she believes she me. i'll give her the time requested, but when that time is up she will have to decide either to accept herself, or not. i think that's all i can do now.
 
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