Can you die from fear?

Murphy

New member
New here. My husband just told me he wants an open marriage, and I am hurt and terrified.

I *want* him to be happy; I *want* to be the confident, sexy wife he wants to share all this with; I *want* our marriage to last....

But I am so scared, just thinking about it this morning had me crying, shaking and hyperventilating like I was being chased by a man with a chainsaw.

I read a few posts on here, but I am still having a hard time with all of this. Are there wives here who were able to work through all this? How did you lose your fear, work through feeling like you were lied to, or going to be abandoned, or being used as the consolation/backup prize?

Help!
 
First, welcome to the forum. I hope we here may be of some help to you.

Second, no, you're not going to die from fear. Do take some time to breathe, though, and to calm yourself as well as you can before you turn to face the source(s) of your fear.

After all, nothing has actually happened yet, or so I assume. Your husband has told you be wants something, but his wanting it does not in itself impose some obligation on you, nor does it mean a decision has already been made.

In the end, you may end up simply saying "no" to your husband. He may be disappointed in not getting what he wants, but clearly you have something to say about the form your marriage takes. Your husband's happiness is not the only consideration and, besides that, looking out for his happiness in the long run is not the same as giving in every time he wants something.

But you're not at that point, yet.

You really need to talk all this over with your husband, in great detail and with as much candor as you can manage. Some questions to consider:

1. What is your marriage like, from the inside? Is it strong and happy? Contentious and stressful? Something else? Is it possible that your husband actually wants out?

2. What is it your husband actually wants? "Open marriage" is vague. Does he want to be able to have sex with others? Committed relationships with others (polyamory)? Does he want to find someone to "add" to the marriage, forming a triad? Something else? Would you be free to pursue other relationships, if you wanted to? Including relationships with other men?

(If you both agree to go in one of these directions, there are many, many other decisions to make and boundaries to set. This will require lots and lots of communication!)

3. Did your husband introduce the idea of an "open marriage" as a speculative possibility? A request? A demand? An ultimatum?

Really, you just need to be clear and direct about your own choices and limits, and be ready to speak up for yourself. (Not that doing so can't be scary in itself!)

Best of luck with this. Let us know how things develop.
 
Re:
"Can you die from fear?"

I don't know, but it makes me scared to think of it. :) Okay, my bad, you can bonk me on the head for that one.

I think hyperskeptic wrote a great post, run with that. (I know, don't *say* the word run! Bonk me on the head again.)

I think education often takes the scariness out of things. It's not such a big, shapeless unknown. Reading lots of threads (and posting your questions) on this site will help. Also I recommend the following book:

"Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino

Don't let your husband rush you on this decision. Tell him you need time to study this idea. Actually, you might want to read that book together with him. Then discuss your various feelings on the parts that you read.

I think you can make choices that can influence your emotional environment, but I don't think you can directly choose your emotions. Don't feel like you failed or something if you feel scared. Lots of people get scared, including polyamorists.

I'm rooting for things to go well. Oh, and welcome to our forum!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
First, welcome to the forum. I hope we here may be of some help to you.

Thank you. I hope so too.

After all, nothing has actually happened yet, or so I assume. Your husband has told you be wants something, but his wanting it does not in itself impose some obligation on you, nor does it mean a decision has already been made.

No, nothing has happened. There is no one else involved.

1. What is your marriage like, from the inside? Is it strong and happy? Contentious and stressful? Something else? Is it possible that your husband actually wants out?

Our marriage has been, from my view and from what he says of his view, happy. We have had a lot of stresses lately, kids, money and a death in the family, but until this "issue", there has been nothing wrong. He has stressed that he wants to stay married to me, to be with me, and while he has been thinking about this for some time, he has still been just as happy and in love with me as before.

2. What is it your husband actually wants? "Open marriage" is vague. Does he want to be able to have sex with others? Committed relationships with others (polyamory)? Does he want to find someone to "add" to the marriage, forming a triad? Something else? Would you be free to pursue other relationships, if you wanted to? Including relationships with other men?

This is a problem I pointed out to him. He did say that he does not want a second wife or a serious girlfriend, but beyond that, he won't say. He says it is because he's not sure and can't pre-order a scenario. I think he can at least have some criteria, and could choose appropriate persons to pursue, especially as he wants to experience some fetish/kink related sex.

He has said, yes, that it works both ways. If fact, he has indicated he might want to watch or join such an activity. I have no idea how to feel about that, and while I did date several people simultaneously before we were married, I have put that mindset away being so in love and devoted to my husband. I don't know if I can return to that way of thinking after being married for so long.

3. Did your husband introduce the idea of an "open marriage" as a speculative possibility? A request? A demand? An ultimatum?.

It is a request. He hasn't made an ultimatum, but he has said if we can't forge an agreement, he isn't sure what will happen. He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.
 
It is a request. He hasn't made an ultimatum, but he has said if we can't forge an agreement, he isn't sure what will happen. He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.

It's a tricky one...it's like opening a door that can never be closed.

Even if he agreed not to ever mention it again and that the subject was dead...it would still be there in your head for the rest of your relationship.

Regardless of where you take things from here, I don't see how things could ever be completely the same again.
 
It might be helpful (it is to me) to journal all your thoughts, then reread and write more.. write questions or make an email draft to edit and edit again..

Talk and talk and talk and talk..its the best thing. Talk without judgement. He is going thru this and it took alot for him to open up and talk to you, so at least continue to talk with an open mind. Even if you decide that its not an interest to you it will help him be comfortable talking about all his thoughts and feelings with you..

hugs...
 
Could thank him for coming to you with his thoughts and feelings. That's what spouses do, right? He's not cheating or anything. He's disclosing. Maybe he's scared to say it to you -- just like you are scared to hear it.

Could be honest back -- that this scares and terrifies you. Could tell him what you do NOT want. You don't want to make any changes to marriage agreements at this time.

Could state what you ARE willing to do at this time. Maybe read articles and books. Talk about his feelings. Get to know this side of him.

Could choose to Open to more of HIM even if you don't Open the marriage at all.

It's your marriage too -- you don't have to do things you do not want to do / are not willing to do.

Galagirl
 
Hi Murphy,
I'm Jim. I'm feeling for you in your struggle.

GalaGirl is right though, it takes a ton of trust and courage for him to be honest. I know you are shocked and shaken by his requests. Those are valid feelings. Take heart that, unlike many who have posted here, your husband appears to have done things in the right way. To me that suggests the two of you have a very solid foundation from which to recover and sort all of this out.

I wish you the best.
 
It does take courage

to bring the subject up to your spouse, and I would agree with the others that talking before being stupid and uncaring and cheating on the person you are with is a good sign. Like Gala Girl said, you would do well to find a way to tell him how much it means to you that he felt close enough with you to speak up. Obviously it is hard for you to deal with, but honestly I don't believe that there is a person alive who has never had a least a fleeting thought that was of a sexual nature about somebody other than their spouse, no matter how perfect the relationship is.

It just happens,

maybe not frequently (but for some it is frequent) because we are by design/nature (however you choose to view life) regardless of your religion or lack of of it, sex is THE strongest motivators/pangs/urges whatever name you give it, it is by far the strongest desire that isn't "technically" needed to survive, although it is necessary to survive beyond one generation.

Hunger and thirst are extremely strong feelings, but the way the brain works in the human being hunger and thirst have nothing on intimacy, esp considering food and water is so readily available. Think about it, as strong as the pangs are from hunger and thirst, the reason their strength are what they are is because much more than a day or two without water, and to a lesser extent food, you would die.

Sex is just part of the intimacy equation, but it happens to be the one that spouses who claim they have never ever had at least a fleeting thought involving someone else, are in fact living in denial.

So while ManofDiscovery, I am sure is trying to help, that type of talk can be deleterious. It makes people afraid of the Truth, which between spouses such a fear can mean death of the relationship.

So Murphy, take solace in the fact that you and your spouse just overcame the hardest step of all, being honest with your spouse. Regardless of whether or not it ever progresses beyond just talking about it, the two of you have an opportunity to have your relationship strengthened by a much deeper level of intimacy, through honesty and understanding. It isn't easy, but it is so worth it, and it can be obtained without ever actually 'opening up' your relationship.

I think the most destructive aspect to peoples lives as the world transitions into Truth, is because people do not truly know themselves, so go slow, and realize that as humans, we are extremely emotional beings.

I know I am going to sound crazy, but it isn't just your husband and it isn't just sex, the days are here that the Entire World is transitioning to an Age of Truth and Honesty (They can no longer be denied), and unfortunately it will break many people. You and your spouse can make it through the transition.

It may turn out to be a blessing that you and your spouse learned about real honesty and truth through this method of it manifesting in your marriage, because I believe that truth and honesty will overtake everyone and in all aspects of their life (it's been written about for quite some time, the old world of lies ended 12/21/2012). Most of the world is going to get pushed off of the proverbial Truth Cliff, and because they weren't prepared, it will destroy them.

You and your spouse will have honesty down pat, and will love life, regardless of the aspect of sex.

hang in there, you will likely find yourselves to be counted as one of the lucky ones;)
 
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So while ManofDiscovery, I am sure is trying to help, that type of talk can be deleterious. It makes people afraid of the Truth, which between spouses such a fear can mean death of the relationship.

You can't get more truthful than to say that the relationship cannot be the same again. And yes, in these situations there is a very real risk of the relationship ending if one party wants to go in one direction and the other wants to go a different way.
 
I hear you MOD

and I would agree to proceed extremely cautiously, but what other option is there but to deny it?

I think maybe I read you wrong, because it *almost* sounded like you were implying that simply talking honestly was dangerous for a relationship.

Which it certainly can be, esp if people do not know themselves or use truth as a weapon to hurt each other. But caring and compassionate truth I believe can strengthen bonds between spouses. And I don't subscribe to the theory that once the door is open that it can never be shut.

For some people, maybe, but poly is so much more of an emotional closeness, like the love of a family, that sex truly for some is not what it is about. And as far as the sex part goes, that opening of the door can in fact be shut, the truth however you are correct, but that isn't a bad door to be stuck open as it is the truth and being able to live your life truthfully that is the real giver of freedom and allows for unheard of levels of intimacy. To be able to share your life truthfully with others is incredible.

that is the point I was trying to make, sorry if I read your comment wrong
 
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It is a request. He hasn't made an ultimatum, but he has said if we can't forge an agreement, he isn't sure what will happen. He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.

Request is good. It's not a demand.

He doesn't seem to have any idea what type of open relationship model(s) he resonates with.

At this juncture you are well within your rights to say "Need more data. This offer on the table you present me is lacking information."

Again, could thank him for talking to you FIRST.

Could read things together to gather data together and determine what kind of specific offer of open model relationship he's presenting you.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://www.serolynne.com/polyamory.htm
http://www.morethantwo.com/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

When you get to the place of giving your Final Word -- could still say "No, thank you. I do not wish to participate. It is not for me. But thank you for treating me well and with respect."

You do NOT have to do things you do NOT find appealing or wanting to do.

He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.

This could use more data also. What is "pursue his sexual interests?" Where's the agreement line there? Participating in online kink communities? Going to a dungeon to voyeur and nothing else? Or does he mean have kink play partners he shares sex with?

If the details of his offer cannot be clarified?

Then the conversation may have to change from "Can we talk about Open and what that could be?" to "We cannot Open and be together. We are not compatible on this because we want different things."

Then he has to decide if he wants to give up the want to be with you, or give up the want to be Open.

Talk honestly -- and sort it out.

Hang in there!
Galagirl
 
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and I would agree to proceed extremely cautiously, but what other option is there but to deny it?

I think maybe I read you wrong, because it *almost* sounded like you were implying that simply talking honestly was dangerous for a relationship.

Which it certainly can be, esp if people do not know themselves or use truth as a weapon to hurt each other. But caring and compassionate truth I believe can strengthen bonds between spouses. And I don't subscribe to the theory that once the door is open that it can never be shut.

For some people, maybe, but poly is so much more of an emotional closeness, like the love of a family, that sex truly for some is not what it is about. And as far as the sex part goes, that opening of the door can in fact be shut, the truth however you are correct, but that isn't a bad door to be stuck open as it is the truth and being able to live your life truthfully that is the real giver of freedom and allows for unheard of levels of intimacy. To be able to share your life truthfully with others is incredible.

that is the point I was trying to make, sorry if I read your comment wrong

Nah it's cool...as you say, honesty can be dangerous for a relationship if the honesty discloses something that fundamentally goes against the values/beliefs of the other person.

Of course that doesn't mean that honesty isn't still the best policy.
 
Regardless of whether or not it ever progresses beyond just talking about it, the two of you have an opportunity to have your relationship strengthened by a much deeper level of intimacy, through honesty and understanding. It isn't easy, but it is so worth it, and it can be obtained without ever actually 'opening up' your relationship.

I can tell you that just talking about it did make my marriage closer and more loving than ever. Actually following through has been amazing as well.

Talk. Talk until you need a break, take it, and then talk more. You can do this. I was more prepared for my husband to bring it up than it sounds like you were, and it was still hard. But so worth it.
 
Thanks

Thank you for all the replies and links so far.

This has to be one of the most difficult things I've faced. It is such an effort to find that position where I can just "let go" and "have faith", as someone (not here) told me to do.

I am a planner and detail-oriented. I have more than a Plan B, I have a whole alphabet. I consider all angles of things and prepare for all the possibilities, the what-ifs, and pre-arrange how to handle the consequences.

From that description, you can, I hope, get a feel for what a nightmare this looks like for me. I went on a roadtrip from hell with someone once when I was in college. They had no hotel reserved, no tools in the car, no AAA, no snacks, no idea where gas stations were, no emergency kit (in the Midwest this involves a first aid kit, blankets, candles, etc.), and finally...no printed map (just handwritten and drawn instructions).

Had I known any of this, I would have seen to it, but I was young and made the assumption that everyone planned like my family taught me. Boy, was I wrong. I won't tell the whole tale, but the result was that I never traveled with them again and that I saw to it that I did the travel planning or double-checked whoever did.

So leaps of faith are really not my style. And unfortunately, shifting our marriage to any flavor of this lifestyle involves just that. And worse, a lot of it involves that abstract category of emotions. There is no way to know beforehand all the triggers that could cause issues and no concrete way to plan for how to address them when they do.

I sat down and tried to write out some scenarios and situations and guidelines, but my husband was irritated. Aside from safe sex precautions, providing information on who/where/what/when, vetoing the use of our bedroom/house, and making sure the family schedule/time needs comes first (Dr's appts, holidays, birthdays, illness, etc.), he doesn't seem to want to agree to anything I propose, even if I tell him that the plan is a Stage One agreement that we will adjust as we go.

For example, I told him that I was not okay with "travel hook-ups", meaning no one-nighters while traveling alone, or any random stranger hook-ups for that matter, and he immediately took advantage of a noise from the other room (not anything that really needed investigation) to disengage and leave the room.

It is making me feel like I can have any compromise I want as long as it is his way. :(

If I have to give up some of what I want so he can be happy, shouldn't he give up some of what he wants so I can feel secure? Shouldn't he - if he wants to be with me as he says - be willing to accept not getting the "whole thing" if the result is keeping our marriage?

He doesn't want "a bunch of rules" and said "absolutely not" to any form of veto. He wants us to both be trusting in the fact that the other person wouldn't do anything to hurt the other, but if we don't lay those things out, how will we know? How will any of the SOs involved know what is okay and not okay if we don't?

I worry about the effects of NRE too, and being taken for granted. I already feel that way sometimes when it comes to his job, I don't need another person adding to it.

//sigh//
 
People around here usually have a strong opinion about rules versus not rules. Either is ok. I guess you could say i have a "N" or "z" which is two people who are married who each have another partner (except my other partner also has other relationships which i do not always know about nor do i need to know). We play by the "not rules" system. This is working really well. Actually i don't use "poly" i use "open" because i like it better.

The problem is not the rules themselves, it's that one of you wants lots of rules and the other doesn't. What if you told him you decided "no" to non-monogamy? Then he gets to have his "no rules". No poly, no rules needed, right? Everybody wins. You tell him i said so. He's a big boy, he can handle it with his big-boy pants on!
 
Well... if yours is a need to feel secure traveling with no map. His is a need to be trusted to make good judgements.

You have suggested some things for the initial "how to work toward that place" stage 1 plan.

What's his suggestion for the "how to get there" plan?

If it really is "you can have any plan you want so long as it is MY WAY."

Then that's not really compromise or taking your wants, needs, and limits into consideration. And you are within your rights to say "Nope. Not polyshipping when I have no voice at the table. Not willing."

Then he can make his next move. And then you make yours after that based on new information received.

You don't have to do things against your own willingness.

Hang in there.
Galagirl
 
Coming from the perspective of someone that wants to open up, I fully support your approach.

I understand what a big decision it is and how much it is asking of my monogamous spouse. If you're taking an active role in trying to set what is acceptable and what it seems more than fair that he should reciprocate.

IIs there a chance he's already crossed some boundaries, and is feeling really guilty?
 
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