Expectation of privacy

Lonlygirl64

New member
I am married to A. T is my BF. He is married to G. A and G are NOT involved or in other poly relationships. T and I became involved by way of swinging. While swingers, T and G enjoyed reading each others texts with other past and future swing partners. The sexting was a turn on. But then T met me and we became deeply involved, developing nothing like a "swinging" relationship and definitely more of a poly one. Once this happened, I requested a certain level of privacy. While I may tell my husband A what T and I discuss, I do not allow him (nor does he ask) to read our conversations, deeming them our business. G, however, still feels she needs to read everything we discuss. It has gotten to the point that we no longer flirt or sext and keep everything very "business like". I resent it but when I brought my objection up with T, he told me "this is the way we've always done things."

Am I wrong to feel so....violated?
 
It would be a deal breaker for me, but all you can do is ask for the behaviour you want. You can't control his actions, but you can control yours.

If your boyfriend is unwilling to accommodate your request it's up to you to enforce your boundaries. That could be by stopping all text-based communication with him because you can't trust him not to share it, all the way up to realising that you can't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't respect your privacy.

Don't let him deflect the blame onto his wife. They may have a rule in place, but he can renegotiate it if he actually wants to.
 
This is normal for swingers but not for poly. No you are not "wrong" to feel violated, but now you are aware of it so you can adjust yourself accordingly. You might have to decide if this is the price of admission you want to pay to be involved with this individual.
 
Hi Lonlygirl,

You seem to be asking if polyamory has a built-in expectation of privacy that swinging doesn't have. I would say no. Privacy issues are one of the things that have to be worked out within each specific relationship. I do disagree with T saying, "This is the way we've always done things." That's a lame excuse. If you are feeling uncomfortable with things now, he can certainly sit down with G and discuss a change. Just because things have been done one way in the past, doesn't mean they can't be done differently in the future. I am thinking that T is chickening out of the conversation he needs to have with G because he is afraid G will punish him somehow ... up to and including possibly divorcing him. Or demanding that he end his relationship with you. Or even just chewing him out, while refusing to make the desired change. So T is part of the problem, and G might be another part of the problem.

The fact that you are now poly whereas before you were swinging, doesn't automatically change the rules around privacy, and really it doesn't matter that things are poly now. What matters is that you feel differently now, for whatever reason, and your feelings are valid and should be considered. Even if you were still swinging, and decided you wanted more privacy, that would still be valid. The point is, you need something different now. T should take that seriously, poly or no poly. You feel what you feel, and it is valid.

I hope you guys can work something out ... and that this thread helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Once this happened, I requested a certain level of privacy. While I may tell my husband A what T and I discuss, I do not allow him (nor does he ask) to read our conversations, deeming them our business. G, however, still feels she needs to read everything we discuss. It has gotten to the point that we no longer flirt or sext and keep everything very "business like".

Sounds like you got your request for privacy met. G doesn't get to hear anything. Just not in the way you hoped. You hoped to continue to sext with T, and that he would exercise a firmer boundary with his wife.

I resent it but when I brought my objection up with T, he told me "this is the way we've always done things."

And when you asked him "Are you willing to change the way you've always done things since we don't have a swinging relationship?" what did he say?

Galagirl
 
Yep, GalaGirl hit it straight on as usual. You didn't keep talking it out. That may be the way they've always done it, but this is a new way of life. Sounds like his wife isn't totally on board with that.

BTW, I have an expectation of total privacy whether it is poly, swinging, or whatever. I would totally be not cool with that kind of sharing under any circumstances.
 
I would never be okay with a metamour having unfettered access to all my texts.

That being said, I also don’t have an expectation of “total privacy” — I expect that some of the things I say will be repeated to others unless I say specifically that what I need to say is private/confidential.

I don’t expect my partners to complain about me to my metamour, but I do expect some degree of them repeating what I have said if it helps them process something with someone else. And showing funny (not personal) text exchanges to a metamour would be fine too.

Example: One time I accidentally sent an explicit text message to Laptop that was intended for Ponytail. I immediately apologized/explained and Laptop and I had a good chuckle about it. Laptop was having breakfast with his wife at the time and so I kinda assumed that he told her about the mix-up. I have no idea if he did, but that would be the kind of thing I wouldn’t mind someone sharing with someone else.
 
Thank you all so much for the advice. I talked to T tonight and explained that while that may have been their "thing" in the past, this relationship is between him and me, not him and her and that it is an invasion of MY privacy. Surprisingly, he agreed with me tonight. Now let's see if he can convince G.

And yes, I expect him to repeat something I might say. I get that. I do that with A. But unfettered access? No. 😉
 
Glad you had a talk.

Surprisingly, he agreed with me tonight. Now let's see if he can convince G.

He doesn't have to convince her. It is his phone. He could change the password. He does not have to give anyone unfettered access to it.

He has to say "No. You may not have unfettered access to my phone." Not because he's doing anything wrong or hiding anything. But because every dyad needs their own privacy.

I presume you don't have unfettered access to their phones, their home, their bank accounts, etc. That's THEIR (him + her) dyad stuff. It is reasonable to expect that the (you + him) dyad stuff on this side would have its private things too. Just like (you + your spouse) would have its private things.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
I can understand it is hard for G. She's used to sharing things and is being asked to give that up. From a swinger we-do-this-together standpoint, it isn't easy. It's not up to her to give you your privacy though, it's up to your shared partner. Trying to convince her makes it seem like she has a choice in the matter when it's not her choice to make.
 
Galagrl, Actually, I do have access to their home (garage code and key) and he does mine. I also have fingerprint access to his phone. He has the same. While I don't have access to their bank account, I do know how much he makes, what his yearly bonus was, etc. There is a lot about our relationship that mirrors a "primary one".

Bunny 89, you are correct. It is up to T to set that boundary with G. It is not going to be easy for her as she is extremely threatened by me and our relationship. But as I told T last night, fear of "us" is rooted in something in her past and something she should work to discover the root of and face. My husband, A, sought counseling a few months back and it has helped a lot. I suggested G might consider that path.
 
I assume there are agreements for that house access. Not like you can show up unannounced at 3 AM, right? It's not unfettered.

If it IS unfettered access? Then I guess I wonder why you get upset over the phone access. Since you have unfettered access to a bunch of things on that side, maybe wife presumed she gets unfettered access to all the things in the other direction.

You guys might want to talk about personal boundaries in other areas -- not just the cel phone.

Galagirl
 
No, I wouldn't show up at 3 am unless it's an emergency. Nor would I go into their home without them knowing. But we do just walk in when they know we are coming over or go in should they need us to feed the cats, check on something, etc. And while in their home, I would never go through their things or anything of the sort. Again, I'm a huge advocate of privacy.
 
Is G completely on board with the amount of access you have to her relationship? Because honestly, I'd feel threatened in that situation too. It's not surprising G wants access to messages when you have access to T's phone as well. Do you know for a fact G is reading the messages? Maybe she just wants access as unrestricted as yours. I don't have access to my NP's phone, it's his phone. If someone else did...well, I'd never be messaging him again for a start.
 
I would never be okay with a metamour having unfettered access to all my texts.

That being said, I also don’t have an expectation of “total privacy” — I expect that some of the things I say will be repeated to others unless I say specifically that what I need to say is private/confidential.

I don’t expect my partners to complain about me to my metamour, but I do expect some degree of them repeating what I have said if it helps them process something with someone else. And showing funny (not personal) text exchanges to a metamour would be fine too.

Example: One time I accidentally sent an explicit text message to Laptop that was intended for Ponytail. I immediately apologized/explained and Laptop and I had a good chuckle about it. Laptop was having breakfast with his wife at the time and so I kinda assumed that he told her about the mix-up. I have no idea if he did, but that would be the kind of thing I wouldn’t mind someone sharing with someone else.

I did say of that type. In other words, any intimate stuff. In your example I might chuckle and say MsE sent me a text she meant for her husband, but I wouldn't show the text or provide any details. But something like, "Vince and I went to such-and-such restaurant and he said the ribeye he ordered was really good" would be fine.

Mary and I talk about things meant only to be between us. She deletes her texts every night because her husband is nosy.
 
Bunny89 -- I COULD have access to anything on his phone I want but while I can gain access, I think I have only picked it up and unlocked it once-- to look at the time or something minor like that. T was the one who requested access to my phone. It gives him this feeling of....being close to me. He then reciprocated but as I've said, I'm all about respecting privacy so I have never read a thing on it. And G knows all of this. I mean, I guess I could pick up his phone and read THEIR correspondence. I wonder how that would make G feel? But I don't think that's appropriate....

It's just so interesting to see the answers on here because in "swinger world" it is very common for couples to not only read each others messages with others but actually insist on 4-way communication at all times. I've had women tell me they are not "allowed" to text with my husband unless we are all 4 involved. I'm like, "Girl, I do not have time to be in on you sexting up my husband!"
 
It's just so interesting to see the answers on here because in "swinger world" it is very common for couples to not only read each others messages with others but actually insist on 4-way communication at all times. I've had women tell me they are not "allowed" to text with my husband unless we are all 4 involved. I'm like, "Girl, I do not have time to be in on you sexting up my husband!"

I have lots of friends who are swingers. On the surface they seem super open-minded, but underneath they are a big bucket of insecurity. There is so much keeping tabs and tit for tat that it doesn't seem very enjoyable. They always tried to get my wife and I to join in but it was just too weird that one of us would have to have sex with someone just because the other wanted to bang their spouse.
 
I get that you don't use it but you do have access. Do you know that G is actually reading your correspondence? Or could it be that if T does all that to be close to you, he also does that with her, and none of this is actually about G at all?
 
I did say of that type. In other words, any intimate stuff. In your example I might chuckle and say MsE sent me a text she meant for her husband, but I wouldn't show the text or provide any details. But something like, "Vince and I went to such-and-such restaurant and he said the ribeye he ordered was really good" would be fine.

Mary and I talk about things meant only to be between us. She deletes her texts every night because her husband is nosy.

Yes. I understood that you expect more privacy than I do. I was using that example to illustrate that, even for those of us who don't consider themselves "very private" or have expectations of total privacy, Gina's expectation (and apparently the expectation of most swingers? that is not a world I know anything about....) of being able to read all text messages would feel invasive.
 
But then T met me and we became deeply involved, developing nothing like a "swinging" relationship and definitely more of a poly one. Once this happened, I requested a certain level of privacy. . . .
G, however, still feels she needs to read everything we discuss. It has gotten to the point that we no longer flirt or sext and keep everything very "business like". I resent it but when I brought my objection up with T, he told me "this is the way we've always done things."

Am I wrong to feel so....violated?

You said you requested that it no longer happen, and that G still "feels the need" to still read the texts. So, your request wasn't agreed to, T continued to allow the access, and you dialled back to "business like." I don't think you've been violated. Your initial privacy request was not agreed to (unless I missed something in the narrative), so you are respecting a personal boundary that protects your privacy.

Actually, I do have access to their home (garage code and key) and he does mine. I also have fingerprint access to his phone. He has the same. . . .
There is a lot about our relationship that mirrors a "primary one".

So, you consider it normal for a "primary" relationship to include access to each other's phones, but you expect that access not to be used for reading private text conversations? In a situation where reading text conversations has been a normal part of their dynamic? And you describe G as "extremely threatened by me and our relationship"?

With all this context, it sounds to me like you're asking a lot of G, and really setting her up to fail. Will you ever really trust her not to use her access to his phone to read the conversations? Would you expect T to revoke her access to his phone, when that, to him, is a special sign of closeness, and you and T have access to each other's phones?

If T and you share reciprocal phone access, and T and G share reciprocal phone access, I think you're best off just keeping your texts businesslike as you've done, and getting over the resentment.

If sexting privately is more important to you than sharing phone access, then make the gesture of revoking each other's unfettered access, before T revokes G's. Otherwise you're asking for a higher level of access than his wife has.

If you must have both access and privacy and want to see how far you can push the wife who already has a problem with you and your relationship with her husband ... well, play that game. But I don't think it'll make anyone happy in the end.
 
Back
Top