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  #21  
Old 03-25-2014, 04:16 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Originally Posted by seakinganswers View Post
This all made so much sense to me. If you have never been in a relationship with a person who unknowingly uses passive aggressive and manipulative approaches to control every aspect of your life then you may not get the point of the blog. I am in that relationship now and I am finally finding ways to show her the damage she has done and why. Previously I couldn't figure out why it drive me so crazy and drove so many nails into the coffin that once was a beautiful relationship. And let me state, our relationship is not poly. The point of the blog actually goes far beyond poly. It's all the times I want to do anything fun that doesn't involve her. She is never happy for me when I get an opportunity to go do something fun.

Everything I do or don't do is about her comfort level. The answer used to always be no because she was never comfortable with anything I wanted to do. Then she "saw the light" and started letting me do things knowing if she held on too tight she would lose me. But I'm never allowed to leave without first being made to feel bad about the fact that she didn't have a similar opportunity. Then she would attempt to make sure I understood all the reasons she was uncomfortable with the situation and make sure and explain all the things I could and couldn't do while I was there. Things like how late I stay out, what kind of places we end up at, who would be there, what the male to female ratio was, how much I drink, etc, etc. and I always go anyways now because I'm not falling for her stupid control issues. What she really deep down wants me to do us say, "Oh I'm sorry honey. If it makes you feel uncomfortable then I won't go because I love you so much." But then of course if that's what I do then I'm just giving in to her controlling ways.
I think we all got the point of the blog, and even agreed with the main sentiment that being micromanaged passive-aggressively because someone can't come out and give a flat answer is a terrible way to conduct one's self.
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
Again, what you expect someone else means by a word isn't necessarily what I mean by that word. Different groups use terms differently.
Okay, but when people have seen it used one way, it's pretty unreasonable for someone to expect them to infer another meaning out of it - not without confusion. Getting bent out of shape over it seems counterproductive.

If I (for some odd reason) were in London and went to the gym, then started complaining about how sore my fanny was, I'd have no reason to get upset over people not realizing I mean my *ass*.

And yeah, apologies for going way off topic. As for the post, I do agree that the metaphor was laid on a bit thickly. The author could have worked in the Augustus Gloop metaphor without overdoing it. The setting of boundaries? Ideally, you shouldn't feel you need to, but "bull in the china shop" partners do exist and do need to be worked with. Some won't rein themselves in (I see this on the mono/poly list over and over again), which leaves the other partner exasperated and grasping at straws. If people can't be grownups, then they're asking to be treated like children.

However, if the other partner can't say what they need to, the problem is on their side as well. Messy.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk

Last edited by YouAreHere; 03-25-2014 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Whoops... Forgot one of the points of the article...
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2014, 06:33 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
Okay, but when people have seen it used one way, it's pretty unreasonable for someone to expect them to infer another meaning out of it - not without confusion. Getting bent out of shape over it seems counterproductive.

If I (for some odd reason) were in London and went to the gym, then started complaining about how sore my fanny was, I'd have no reason to get upset over people not realizing I mean my *ass*.
No, it's not unreasonable. Especially with a term that's not in common parlance. Your analogy is flawed. That said, I'm not bent out of shape. Hopefully you're not either. I just don't see things your way.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2014, 07:01 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Nope. Not bent. Just trying to explain the backlash, is all. Vive le difference.
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Dramatis personae:
Me: Mono. Divorced, two kids (DanceGirl, 13; and PokéGirl, 11), two cats, one house, many projects.
Chops: My partner. Poly. In relationships with me, Xena, and Noa.
Xena: Poly. In relationships with Chops and Noa, and dating others.
Noa: Married, Poly. In relationships with Chops and Xena (individually).

Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk

Last edited by YouAreHere; 03-25-2014 at 07:10 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2014, 02:06 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
No, it's not unreasonable. Especially with a term that's not in common parlance.
The term breeder is indeed very common. Most folks understand it to mean people whose major goal in life is to have children without much thought about it - just pop 'em out because that is what we're expected to do. "Breeders" are brainless babymakers.

I personally was not offended by the use of it, because taking offense at something is a choice we make that I feel is generally a waste of time and energy, so I rarely ever let myself feel offended by others' actions - and especially not over any strangers' words on message boards. I did, however, recognize the rudeness of using that term, and that is what I commented on. I am intelligent enough to be able to see something as obnoxious without being personally offended by it.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #26  
Old 03-26-2014, 03:32 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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I did not say that I personally was offended by it, as to me I'd have to be a "breeder" to be offended by it. However, I do find the term itself offensive because it is a common place word, as NYCindie states. I also find unicorn hunting offensive. And pretty much any word that has been adopted as derogatory to a particular group of people, but that's my social work/ social justice background speaking.
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  #27  
Old 03-26-2014, 07:42 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
There was a guideline my general manager wanted me to ignore and my regional manager wanted me to follow. I appeased the one I dealt with the most.
I would prefer to evaluate the guideline myself, try to understand the reason and motivation behind it, and then do whatever makes the most sense to me, all while discussing it with whomever I'll eventually have to report back.

Similarly, if I set boundaries in my life, I focus on the way I feel about certain behaviours when done to or around me. It doesn't make sense to say "don't do these behaviours around me" because someone can follow the letter of the law and still be just as obnoxious or cruel. Instead, I try to figure out what it is about those behaviours that triggers these feelings in me, and what needs are not being met, and then I focus on those feelings and needs. If people are aware of that, then the behaviours tend to sort themselves out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanquish View Post
I think we all got the point of the blog, and even agreed with the main sentiment that being micromanaged passive-aggressively because someone can't come out and give a flat answer is a terrible way to conduct one's self.
Dude, respect. It's a concept you appear seem to be struggling with. That's fine if you're indifferent to the way people perceive you. But if you want to be taken seriously and have your opinions considered as valid and reasonable by people other than yourself, you'll need to learn to communicate in a way that doesn't alienate those around you. When multiple people tell you that something you said is generally considered offensive, loudly proclaiming "I didn't mean it that way, and it's your fault you took it that way" only makes you appear less aware of yourself. It doesn't remotely appear to the rest of us as though we should have read your mind and known that you meant something other than the generally accepted perception.

I personally found the anecdote to be relevant and interesting. It was a good reminder that many of these relationship issues that come under focus in poly relationships are not remotely unique to poly situations.
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:43 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Dude, respect. It's a concept you appear seem to be struggling with. That's fine if you're indifferent to the way people perceive you. But if you want to be taken seriously and have your opinions considered as valid and reasonable by people other than yourself, you'll need to learn to communicate in a way that doesn't alienate those around you. When multiple people tell you that something you said is generally considered offensive, loudly proclaiming "I didn't mean it that way, and it's your fault you took it that way" only makes you appear less aware of yourself. It doesn't remotely appear to the rest of us as though we should have read your mind and known that you meant something other than the generally accepted perception.
I wasn't disrespectful. I was actually saying that I and other people agreed with the main point. You were actually rather disrespectful to me in another thread and I let it go. I don't need to be told how to use a back button. Especially when I apologized in the thread and you probably skimmed over the thread and didn't see it. Or if you did, you didn't reference it.

As for this particular thread, all I was doing was echoing a point that someone else was saying.

As for the term breeder being common...it may be to you...but not to most of the people I know and interact with. And regardless, my usage is my own usage. Words do have shared meanings, that's why, in general they work, but you can't assume you necessarily mean the exact same thing when you use a word. (See Jacques Derrida and deconstructionism)
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