No, because *I* think *SHE* might be uncomfortable

A2Poly

New member
So Mal and I have a visit planned for next month.

And now I'm looking for "things to do" in my city while he is here. I want him to get to know my city and the things about it I love... which include certain art forms (the gallery, the theatre, the symphony, etc, etc). One of the things to do that weekend is an overlap of two of my favourite artforms and I think "Wow! This is perfect!", and email the link to Mal suggesting we go.

And he says no. Or more exactly, he says he THINKS that Djinn will be jealous if he and I go to this event because one of the art forms is one that she is passionate about.

I feel like he is like saying "You and I can never eat in a sushi restaurant, because Djinn is my partner too and WE eat in sushi restaurants, they are her favourite and I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable by sharing sushi with you too".

Which as soon as I switched it to a restaurant metaphor I realized clear couples privilege. But it isn't even HER saying it. Maybe she'll be fine with it. Maybe not. But for him to prejudge her reaction and then protect against it?

I mean, I'll go to the event anyway - a friend contacted me about it this morning and I'll go with her and her kids and leave him at home if that is what it comes to. But how will she be LESS jealous of that than of him and I going together? I just don't get it.

Insight anyone?
 
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Re: insight ... I got nothin'. I feel you though, I'd be exasperated if a partner pulled something like that on me. Surely you've earned a small "share of the privilege" by now? Gads.
 
he THINKS that Djinn will be jealous if he and I go to this event because one of the art forms is one that she is passionate about.

Just in case this other person *might* feel jealous, he's going to pass on the invitation you've given him.

A partner can accept or turn down an invitation as they see fit based on sound reasoning or total bullshit and that is neither here nor there. However, this is CLEARLY couple privilege which has a direct affect on your life and you are left needing to decide what you want to do about it, if anything.

But it isn't even HER saying it. Maybe she'll be fine with it. Maybe not. But for him to prejudge her reaction and then protect against it?

Is this really at the heart of the issue? I personally see this as a distraction. He has made his call based on his other relationship; whether or not his decision is based on reason or some assumption would seem irrelevant. Your relationship is with him (at least the one we are talking about) not with her. He has made a call that impacts your life and I think it would be wise to focus on his decision and not chase around the details.

I don't know your story but this sounds like hierarchical privilege bullshit to me. Are you cool with that? Since it has clearly emotionally impacted you I'm guessing it isn't?
 
Is this really at the heart of the issue? I personally see this as a distraction.
...
I don't know your story but this sounds like hierarchical privilege bullshit to me. Are you cool with that? Since it has clearly emotionally impacted you I'm guessing it isn't?

No it isn't the heart of it, or even a distraction, it was meant more as a dismissal of his 'excuse', because he actually doesn't even know how she would feel. And a statement that the real problem is HIS decision to put her (potential, as yet unknown) reaction ahead of mine.

And nope, I'm not cool with it. In fact the more I think about it the more annoyed I am. And on top of that, I don't think its the kind of poly that Djinn wants to practice. I think it is *entirely* in Mal's head.

And him being twitchy about discussing it with Djinn ... that implies things about their relationship that concern me. (Not in a 'this is my problem' way, but in a 'I wonder what fall out from this I'll have to deal with' way)


So why can't you say to him exactly what you wrote here? You have legitimate questions.

I did :) I just needed to write it out (a bunch of times) so it was clear, first. It was literally not until I wrote that 'sushi' analogy that I realised it was couples privilege. And as with most privilege he hadn't seen it that way at all, he saw it as being 'considerate of her feelings'... So we have work to do....
 
Re (from A2Poly):
"And as with most privilege he hadn't seen it that way at all, he saw it as being 'considerate of her feelings' ..."

... at the expense of your feelings. Grrrr!

Sounds like you're starting to talk it out with him, so that's a good sign.
 
I appreciate the validation everyone. Thanks. we'll have more conversations about this, I'm sure, and we have a visit this weekend, so I imagine it will come up in person too - which will be both easier and harder.
 
Let us know how that goes (if you're willing).
 
He seems to be doing avoidy dance to me. My guesses as to why?

  1. Not wanting to enforce his personal boundaries if she behaves inappropriately at him. Which she hasn't yet though -- he's basically assuming and selling her short.
  2. OR he is using her as excuse (while she's not there to say boo about being used) so he doesn't have to deal with YOUR response if he straight up goes "I don't like that. Not my scene." If he assumes you will behave inappropriately at him -- he sells you short.
  3. OR it *is* couple privilege and HE is choosing to uphold it.
  4. OR it is anxiety witter. Say and do whatever so long as HE is safe from perceived "danger" whether the danger is real or not.

I wonder... how assertive is he? He avoidy in general? That is one style personality I do not deal with well. I prefer assertive and collaborative when it comes to problem solving. I don't like dealing with avoidant.

From this article. Bold is mine.

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Avoiding: People tending towards this style seek to evade the conflict entirely. This style is typified by delegating controversial decisions, accepting default decisions, and not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings. It can be appropriate when victory is impossible, when the controversy is trivial, or when someone else is in a better position to solve the problem. However in many situations this is a weak and ineffective approach to take.

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl, your posts are always insightful. Thank you.

I think 1. and 3. overlap in that they would both be couples privilege: 1. being her belief in it (or his belief in her belief in it) and 3. being his belief in it. Either way we need to deal with that because no way is it ok with me to restrict my enjoyment of an entire art form because "the couple" likes it too. That is ridiculous. I'll skip *a* restaurant, if it is truly a big deal, but I'm not giving up sushi entirely! (To stick with the metaphor)

I know that 2. Is not the issue. He loves this art form too.

And 1. and 2. overlap in the 'selling us short' vein, but I don't think that's who he is, though he tends towards 'protector' sometimes, even when not needed, which seems to be the case here (protecting her). So some work needed there I think.

And if it is 4. Well, if it's 4. We have bigger issues yet. Because I don't deal well with that. Thank you for the link, you have some great resources. This one is very similar to what I discussed with my therapist yesterday, but it's nice to have something to refer back to, or pass on if needed.

We had a bit of a talk last night (both way to tired to really get into it), and he says we should go to the show. That he thought about it and found/defined some triggers for him, but he doesn't want them to get in the way of us. I suggested we table the conversation until we were both less tired, or until the weekend when we see each other in person.

For me this behaviour directly contradicts his statement that he thinks of me as 'co-primary', and we (I) need clarity about that. Because it is becoming clear that while I am still my own primary, he is quickly approaching that territory, and if it isn't reciprocal I need to know that.
 
Glad it helped some. I hope that this....

I suggested we table the conversation until we were both less tired, or until the weekend when we see each other in person.

... turns out to be a productive conversation and you sort things out.

GL!
Galagirl
 
Glad it helped some. I hope that this.... turns out to be a productive conversation and you sort things out.

GL!
Galagirl

Not all sorted, but better. Definitely some '1.' in there, he was protecting her. No surprise, but something he needs to think about and a thought pattern he needs to compensate for. I told him I thought he was selling Djinn short, but also that even if she was jealous I didn't think it was appropriate to try to stop us from doing things I enjoy and want to share with him. And, honestly, I don't think that is the kind of poly Djinn wants to practice anyway.

I'm not really sure where we come down on the 'co-primary' vs 'secondary/not primary', but it's on his radar, so I have no doubt we'll be continuing both conversations over time. He's a talker, thankfully. It's great. :D

On top of that, his sister unexpectedly was passing through the city where we were on her way home to see the family for a bit, and they ended up traveling back to his house together. And he told her about our relationship. He will be having the same conversation with his mom soon too. We are officially out to his family! So many emotions! I've been out to my daughter since the beginning, Djinn is out to the people who matter, but Mal is pretty private, so this is a huge deal!
 
Sounds like congrats are in order! :)
 
Perhaps he truly is concerned about her jealousy? Especially if it is a newer relationship. Jealousy is a part of poly whether we like it or not and you need to be aware of partners potential triggers so that they can be openly discussed. For example, me and kitty had to discuss the potential of pregnancy between her and lovey. It is a jealousy I can't handle right now. I can't have children. Cinderella is adopted and cheeks and booga are loveys from previous relationships. I didn't say never I just said I can't do it right now. I can't handle that jealousy. But it was something the three of us discussed together. Not s decision I made unilaterally. If.djinn is your best friend it's something you should be able to discuss with her.
 
Perhaps he truly is concerned about her jealousy?

...

If.djinn is your best friend it's something you should be able to discuss with her.

She's my best freind, so I also know that she wouldn't be jealous about this. Envious? Sure. Just like I am when she gets to do similar things without me. But that's not the point.

But the issue wasn't if she was jealous or not. The problem was that his reaction was to say 'no, we can't do this because she might be'. If she had been jealous that would have been a separate issue that both he/she and she/I would have needed to talk about. But prejudging her reaction and being willing to slash and burn our relationship to protect her from something instead of asking her, or instead of being willing to work through any true issue with her? That is not loving behavior towards her or me.

Because you are very right, we talk about triggers so they can be respected and worked through. I respect a 'not never, just not right now', we've come across a few of those (from my side too) so far, and always worked through them. This one would have been no different...if it had truely been her trigger, and not just in his head.
 
Okay I see what you are saying now. I would be upset to in your position. I have had a couple of those issues with sweetheart and at firsti held them in. As a secondary partner I didn't feel like I had a right to say anything. But that got really old really fast for me. He would just cancel dates with me at the drop of a hat because he thought one thing or another "might" upset princess. Finally I told him my time is my time and I don't lose it. Either we are poly or we are not. And if we are my feelings matter too. We started out swingers though that became poly so for us the path was a little different.
 
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