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  #11  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:36 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Glad if I could help.

You are strong, push hard against the temptation, you know what's the right thing to do, I'm pulling for you!
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:24 PM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleboots View Post

Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage. I know why I do it, but now how do I find the strength to *stop* doing it and *start* doing what's right for me.
Baggage can be left behind. Nobody is doomed to carry the baggage of his/her family of origin - and almost everyone has some. It's not strength or will power that changes this, it's making different choices to think and act differently because it feels better to live better. There are many ways to change - I won't pretend to be a therapist and tell you how. Much is available for people who want to make healthier and more emotionally secure choices in thought. I'm just here to say that there's really no such lasting thing as being strong. There is, however, such a thing as choosing to learn about different approaches, different perspectives, different thoughts that lead to improved behavior and positive feelings. Many small changes make a changed life, little by little. "Being strong" and just avoiding people is really not a concept that leads to true and lasting inner emotional security. You see from your own life that unless you make internal changes, the same kind of problem keeps cropping up again and again.
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Last edited by FallenAngelina; 01-28-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2019, 02:45 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage. I know why I do it, but now how do I find the strength to *stop* doing it and *start* doing what's right for me.
Understandable, but doesn't doom you to ride the same merry-go-round for life. You can get off that ride.

You do it by thinking "Wait.... Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage.

So THIS situation... is that just more baggage? Or not?"

when a new situation arises. Use your yardstick. Size things up. You do not have to be the "man fixer." They can fix themselves. You can expect better treatment. A new mindset like that can take some getting used to, but you ARE allowed to have your OWN preferences, boundaries, limits, etc.

Galagirl
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2019, 08:53 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I'm not good with remembering initials, especially multiple initials.

I'm going to use Ken for K.
Dave for D.
Rose for R.
M doesn't seem to be in the loop, but let's call him Mike.

Feel free to use other nicknames. Our Guidelines request nicknames.

The others have given you good feedback, but I just wonder about one little aspect. You and Ken (your bf) spend an awful lot of time with these others... every week? Every single week? Why? I mean, yeah, you have fun. But is it necessary to hang with them every single week?

What's the point? Couldn't you see other friends? You personally, see others. Or you and Ken see others. Or just hang out together or go out together, without seeing others at all.

The reason I am asking this is, you and this attractive single guy Dave are around each other every weekend, all weekend, it seems. Right? And you and Rose for some reason, both crush on him. Is Rose single and horny? What's up with 2 grown women crushing on and giggling about and flirting with the same guy? Why is he so mysterious if you talk to him every weekend all weekend?

Anyway, you could try hanging out with this friends group less. I find, if I am around someone constantly, and I find them attractive, I get a crush on them "just because." Pheromones, familiarity, etc. It's not sensible, it's not practical, it's maybe not healthy.

So a behavior you could change is stop seeing Dave so often. So you can't stare at him, moon around him, fantasize, and flirt. Stop seeing Rose so often too, for at least a while, to get off the habit of crushing on Dave, talking about him like his 2 biggest fans in the fan club. It sounds sort of high school.

Maybe while your crush dissipates, you and Ken could just hang with Mike... if he's not that attractive to you. Or not. Your choice. Make new friends, get a new hobby group, spend more time with (straight) female friends where there are built-in boundaries around sexual behavior.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2019, 05:03 AM
MayDecember MayDecember is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleboots View Post
Now D is a special character (and this is probably why I was so drawn to him) in that he's smart, funny, good looking, successful, kinda the "whole package" kind of guy who has only had one significant relationship in his life, around ten years ago.
When I read this, I slammed the brakes hard. Because it was the renaissance man until that point.

Were it really the renaissance man, we would be hearing about how his stunning girlfriend was squished by a bus, and in his remorse you rescued his broken heart, etc. How fortunate for you, and tragic for her.

But you've known him as a romantic target for 1.5 years and longer than that altogether. It sounded like you get together several times a week with him. So that would be 1.5*52*3 = 234 times you had been together, at least. Let's say 250 including time before the crush developed.

I am happy to revise those numbers.

But it is a staggering # of times to be around someone and not know them, especially if you want to "do" them. Three times would be too many for me. But even ten or a dozen - beyond that is really bizarre frankly.

It cannot be an accident. It is by design. The numbers do not square. Or else a lot of information has been left out.

If I want to know something about someone, I ask. Oh, but I am a guy. So if I was a girl I would ask this chain of people, the more the better, to get the same information by subterfuge.

If it is a person, place, or a circumstance where poly is inappropriate - then you don't ask. You send clear signals of disinterest sexually. Like a boss, a little sister or whatever. That would explain why 1.5 years could go by and no sex happening.

But it cannot explain why you don't know him, meaning why he is unsuccessful in relationships.

I meet people who are, and it is generally clear straight away why they have trouble: Social anxiety disorder, autism spectrum, various personality disorders, birth defects, fetal alcohol spectrum, abused childhood, alcoholic/drug dependent, a mercenary on long deployments, you can list dozens of self-explanatory reasons.

If a person not only wants to know, but it is urgent as we are led to believe... this is so odd.

To go from knowing nothing but enticing sexual data, pent up for 1.5 years, to sudden sex, this blast of promiscuity, then back to zero again...

I can't figure that one out.
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2019, 04:09 PM
purpleboots purpleboots is offline
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I'm working on the healthier mindset, being more respectful to myself, not investing any more energy in someone who clearly is not willing to invest more energy in me. Spending less time with these folks is an option, but part of this configuration works because they are willing to converge at my house on nights where I'm home with the kids. (I'm in my early 30s and many of my friends are more into going out on Friday nights rather than spending the night playing board games as we do) But I should invest more time in hangouts with other friends, find a new hobby group - this is good advice.

I just wanted to respond to this @MayDecember:

Quote:
It cannot be an accident. It is by design. The numbers do not square. Or else a lot of information has been left out.

If I want to know something about someone, I ask. Oh, but I am a guy. So if I was a girl I would ask this chain of people, the more the better, to get the same information by subterfuge.
I'm going to try to not read that last little bit as hostile toward women and presumptuous about my (or women's in general) communication style, and just respond to the first part.

Yes, I left out some information, I suppose. Mental health and alcohol use is at play here - D can be socially anxious and it's hard to get him to open up, he also has all the symptoms of clinical depression and generalized anxiety disorder. What information I have been able to learn over the years has been via the direct questions I've asked him, about his family, his work, his history. But it's hard to get beyond one or two questions at a time because he gets so uncomfortable. Being highly attuned to the emotions of others, I also become uncomfortable and stop asking questions. And it's not like I can ask a question and it leads to a detailed response. We're talking like one and two sentence answers, max.

He self medicates with alcohol for the anxiety and depression and we are able to have very long and comfortable one on one conversations when he's drunk. This is how I've been able to glean information about his political leanings, for example. He never speaks freely about his life, his experiences, his hobbies, his family, his other friends. He will speak at length about current events and, for the past year or so, the difficult politics at his job.

Recently, he's been actually volunteering personal information, spontaneously telling stories about his life and family, K and I even met his mother and brother over Christmas. This new more open behaviour (but like, still very reserved by most standards) coincided with him leaving the difficult-politics job, the relief of leaving the job may have facilitated him coming out of his shell a bit.

Quote:
To go from knowing nothing but enticing sexual data, pent up for 1.5 years, to sudden sex, this blast of promiscuity, then back to zero again...

I can't figure that one out.
I think this was a case of him letting way too loose, scaring the shit out of himself, creating an impossible to manage situation, and then retreating. He was still willing to give things a shot with me on New Years day when I went over to his place to talk to him after he'd slept with R, (he was hungover, so probably still not letting his rational mind do the heavy lifting) but upon further reflection over the subsequent week, couldn't imagine a scenario that wouldn't be extremely difficult for him to manage. So he decided he just wanted to revert back to where we were before he had sex with his two closest female friends within 8h of each other. I get that. It's just annoying af.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2019, 05:29 PM
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FallenAngelina FallenAngelina is offline
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He self medicates with alcohol for the anxiety and depression and we are able to have very long and comfortable one on one conversations when he's drunk.
Self-medication for depression and anxiety underlies most alcoholism. You won't ever find a problem drinker who has no underlying emotional/mental pain. This, in and of itself, is much, much bigger than any love relationship can heal without additional community support. You can find love with a problem drinker and you can find relief via breakthroughs from time to time, but you cannot make him better. If he gets better, it will be his doing, not yours. You do not need to, nor can you "fix" him.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:48 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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When life gets this complex, it's time to decide if you really want to stay in situations and with people who make your life this complex.

My life is much happier since walking away from people who require :tldr.
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