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  #11  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:25 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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You seem to want to date more. If you and your present HS girlfriend are in an open relationship right now?

Leave her friend alone even if you have a crush on her. Make it easier on you, not harder.

Why are you keeping your head over at the HS? What stops you from poly dating people at college where you are at now?

Your patient GF might need all the friends she has as she navigates her mental health problems with the parents without complicating by sharing a boyfriend with her best friend. And you wanting the best friend to keep tabs on your HS GF for you... it's not her job, and it makes for very weird dynamics.

I'd suggest that you seek healthier dating situations that are less complicated.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-19-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:46 PM
MuffinButton MuffinButton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
2 things:

1) Please choose nicknames for your friends. I am like a broken record, constantly repeating this to all new members. It's right in our Guidelines, this request.

We can't keep saying "your girlfriend" and "this girl," for these individuals, without confusion. So, thanks.

I will use Cat for your gf and Bird for the friend.

2) If you are interested in a sexual relationship with Bird, that's between the 2 of you. You may or may not ask her out, and attempt sexual behavior.

If Cat is interested sexually in Bird, that is between them. Cat may or may not ask Bird out, and attempt sexual behavior.

If you, as a typical male, have a sexual threesome fantasy, FMF, go for it at college. Don't attempt it with mentally ill Cat, who is struggling, and her good friend Bird, who is probably straight. That's asking for trouble.

You don't have to do sexual threesomes to have a "polyamorous relationship." Triads are rare in poly, where all 3 people are romantically and sexually into each other. Relationships, romantic and sexual interest, tend to wax and wane. So even if you have a good, hot sex session or 3, generally one of the partners will decide they are only into ONE of the others, not both. Or if an established couple (you and Cat) both proposition your "unicorn," Bird, she might fear the stronger bond you two have and be uncomfortable as a third wheel, or feeling "lesser" as your shared secondary. Some unicorns even end up feeling like a sex toy used to spice up a couple's sex life. No woman wants to feel like a silicone sex doll (unless they are really kinky and into being objectified, but that's a much more advanced topic).

If you and Cat fantasize about Bird while you're having sex or sexting, imagining her in bed with the 2 of you, doing XYZ to you while Cat watches, or whatever, and you both find this fantasy hot, fine. But fantasy and reality rarely match up. Cat might find it hot to imagine having Bird in bed with you and her, but in reality it might freak her out, gross her out, make her feel left out, make her jealous, destroy her arousal and make her unable to cum, make her "freeze" and check out mentally, etc., etc. These are all emotions women who have tried sexual threesomes with their male partner and another woman have felt, and expressed, here on this board, and elsewhere in poly literature.

We've already recommended against dating Bird, for several reasons. But if you want to practice poly, and Cat is OK with it, gives her joyous consent, you can ask out whoever you want, another college student, or a town person, where you are living. Why focus on a long distance relationship with Bird?
I apologize again for the vague language. While writing this it appears I made things more complex than I normally do as you can see me apologize to other users for the lack of detail or clarity in my words. IF you don't mind me changing the nicknames I will be calling the senior girl 'S' and my girlfriend 'Al'.

My intention for this trio is not for the sake of sexual adventures. I can assure you of that. But I did make the mistake of making my 'desire' and my issue at hand. I will accept that S will not be attracted to AL and I am perfectly ok with that. There isn't much sexual contact between me and AL due to issues with parents. Yes, I am sexually attracted to S but being that she has never been in a relationship or been intimate with anyone I don't want to force anything on her or feel as if she has to go with whatever AL and I say or have established.

As for AL and her mental-illness, I do not want to start or try anything until I am certain that she can think about the situation more clearly and not through the eyes of a scared girlfriend who has to fight for my affection with other partners. I have talked to her about poly relationships and that I don't need any of them to prove to me they are worthy or something like but due to her anxiety, she refuses to accept that. I would just be creating a worse issue for myself by doing anything without her getting better first.

As for why S in particular, AL and I agreed that for the time being any partner I wish to involve in the relationship is someone that AL trusts. This list immediately denies any college classmates or people I randomly meet. I agreed to this knowing how one-sided this was again because of AL's anxiety. I did not expect that I had repressed attraction to people close to me so quickly. This is and of itself is an issue but I can resolve once AL gets professional help. S happened to be someone who I had repressed feelings for and was some that AL trusted. This coincidence may have misled me to believe that everything along this path will be just as easy or coincidental. Personally, I had feelings for S before I had dated AL but due to a whole fustercluck of different issues never followed through. Again, everything just lined up perfectly for her to be the one I wanted to join our relationship.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:51 PM
MuffinButton MuffinButton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
You seem to want to date more. If you and your present HS girlfriend are in an open relationship right now?

Leave her friend alone even if you have a crush on her. Make it easier on you, not harder.

Why are you keeping your head over at the HS? What stops you from poly dating people at college where you are at now?

Your patient GF might need all the friends she has as she navigates her mental health problems with the parents without complicating by sharing a boyfriend with her best friend. And you wanting the best friend to keep tabs on your HS GF for you... it's not her job, and it makes for very weird dynamics.

I'd suggest that you seek healthier dating situations that are less complicated.

Galagirl
Again, another detail I failed to mention in the original post. Check my response @Magdlyn for what I mean.

Yes, I understand not making things more complicated for myself I just have just gotten really good at it. It's been my life thus far so this is a little harder than I have experienced but what isn't as you are getting older. I'm not trying to justify my need to complicate things but it is not serious enough to be a major issue.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:57 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Just to be clear, the Guidelines request you use nicknames, NOT initials. Initials are even more confusing than "my wife," "my husband," the "other woman," etc.

You just picked S, so make up a nickname that starts with S. You picked AL for your gf, so maybe pick a nickname that uses those letters too. Alabama. Alice. Abby Louise, for example.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my partner since January 2009, living together full time 6 years
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:13 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Oh gosh. You're only not quite 19. You've made promises to AL, Alice Louise, to not date anyone else until she is "better" from her mental illness, or free from her parents' control?? Why are you tying yourself down to her at such a young age?

And she mistakenly told you, you can't date anyone she doesn't trust. She doesn't realize she might come to distrust S (Suzy) if you start to date her!

I'd highly recommend you entirely think all this. Alice Louise is off limits, her parents won't let her date you. I guess she can't just do it behind their backs for whatever reason.

Suzy is off limits because she might actually hurt Alice Louise by dating you.

Other people at college are off limits because Alice Louise doesn't "know or trust them." Even though she's going to be living with her parents for like 2 more years!

These are your years to enjoy college, socializing, dating. I know how it is. It's hard to let go of the high school stuff. I tried to keep dating my boyfriend from home the first few months of college, long distance, too. But he "cheated on me" in December. It devastated me at the time, but looking back, it was only natural he'd fall for someone who lived near him. And then it freed me up, and I had a great time dating lots more guys in the following years.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my partner since January 2009, living together full time 6 years
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2019, 08:45 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Thank you for more info.

I agree with Magdyln -- sometimes it is hard to let go of HS stuff.

You aren't in HS any more though. You could make other choices than you are making right now.

I mean this kindly, ok?

I think you are bending yourself into pretzels around your sick HS GF when you are just not obligated to.

Can I ask you something? Is this HS girlfriend YOUR first serious relationship? Hence the bending into pretzels?

Quote:
As for AL and her mental-illness, I do not want to start or try anything until I am certain that she can think about the situation more clearly and not through the eyes of a scared girlfriend who has to fight for my affection with other partners. I have talked to her about poly relationships and that I don't need any of them to prove to me they are worthy or something like but due to her anxiety, she refuses to accept that.
This is not "joyous yes" polyamory. To me this sounds like a scared HS student who says whatever to avoid breaking up.

Quote:
As for why S in particular, AL and I agreed that for the time being any partner I wish to involve in the relationship is someone that AL trusts. This list immediately denies any college classmates or people I randomly meet.
Or she asked for that agreement because it DOES limit you. (consciously or not.)

Then you dating others doesn't actually happen and she doesn't have to sweat it.

SKIP dating her friend S. It leads to a weird dynamic, and it isn't AL's job to find your other partners for you. YOU could find your other partners.

Quote:
I agreed to this knowing how one-sided this was again because of AL's anxiety.
AL's anxiety source is not your doing and her anxiety management is not your responsibility.

I wonder if you agreed to this one-sided agreement because YOU don't want to have to break up with AL and YOU still want to try poly dating? And this way you seemingly get both?

Now I think I understand your hurry for AL to get well in the other thread and your over-involvement in that. Then this ill fitting agreement can be over.

There's another way to solve that though.

Quote:
I understand not making things more complicated for myself I just have just gotten really good at it. It's been my life thus far so this is a little harder than I have experienced but what isn't as you are getting older.
OK. Since it's already complicated? Be ok with complexity. I think you could gently tell AL that you have kept the agreement this long, find it pinches, and will no longer be keeping it. You want to be dating people at the college. You would also like to date her if she's still up for that. Be clear and be firm.

And draw on this:

Quote:
I simply want to invite S into a poly relationship. Whatever happens happens and I can accept that.
You were willing before, could be willing now. Ask someone else at the college into your poly network. And keep being willing to let whatever happens, happen. Accept it.

Including telling AL you don't want to keep that agreement any more where she's in charge of "pre-approving your partners." You could ask AL into a new poly model where YOU choose your potential partners for yourself. The person she trusts is YOU. She trusts that you won't pick out wackies to date.

Rather than her preapproving partners for you that she trusts "not to take you away."

AL might decide this new poly model where you are responsible for your own self isn't for her and she might choose to bow out.

But it is a healthier way of going because then each person responsible for their own consent, and their own level of participation and their own stuff.

Rather than you making poor agreements and later trying to figure out "how to get people to do X."

You are not responsible for everyone else's behaviors and choices. Just yours.

Right now you and AL are overstepping on each other. You are way too up in her healthcare choices. She is way too up in your dating choices. Both could back off some and each be responsible for their OWN things.

You could also accept that not everyone you date will be a long haul runner. Esp in your teens. That is part of what dating is FOR -- to sort out the incompatible ones, and the "initially compatible" from the "deeply compatible."

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-20-2019 at 04:24 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2019, 11:00 PM
MuffinButton MuffinButton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Oh gosh. You're only not quite 19. You've made promises to AL, Alice Louise, to not date anyone else until she is "better" from her mental illness, or free from her parents' control?? Why are you tying yourself down to her at such a young age?

And she mistakenly told you, you can't date anyone she doesn't trust. She doesn't realize she might come to distrust S (Suzy) if you start to date her!

I'd highly recommend you entirely think all this. Alice Louise is off limits, her parents won't let her date you. I guess she can't just do it behind their backs for whatever reason.

Suzy is off limits because she might actually hurt Alice Louise by dating you.

Other people at college are off limits because Alice Louise doesn't "know or trust them." Even though she's going to be living with her parents for like 2 more years!

These are your years to enjoy college, socializing, dating. I know how it is. It's hard to let go of the high school stuff. I tried to keep dating my boyfriend from home the first few months of college, long distance, too. But he "cheated on me" in December. It devastated me at the time, but looking back, it was only natural he'd fall for someone who lived near him. And then it freed me up, and I had a great time dating lots more guys in the following years.
My apologies again, I just resorted to the first thing I could think of to replace pronouns.

So yes, I am dating Alice Louis behind her parents' backs. This issue with her parents is a whole separate nightmare we have had to try to work around but I have been successful thus far. At this point, I am waiting for Alice Louis to turn 18 so her parents have less control over her legally. Maybe not morally or socially but legal at least means I have something on my side.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2019, 02:11 PM
MuffinButton MuffinButton is offline
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Just as a forewarning, 2 more characters are brought into this in terms of issues and exposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Thank you for more info.

I agree with Magdyln -- sometimes it is hard to let go of HS stuff.

You aren't in HS any more though. You could make other choices than you are making right now.

I mean this kindly, ok?

I think you are bending yourself into pretzels around your sick HS GF when you are just not obligated to.

Can I ask you something? Is this HS girlfriend YOUR first serious relationship? Hence the bending into pretzels?
No I had my serious relationship had ended about half a year before I had started dating Alice Louis with, let's call this new girl Zepp. This isn't out of the ordinary for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
This is not "joyous yes" polyamory. To me this sounds like a scared HS student who says whatever to avoid breaking up.



Or she asked for that agreement because it DOES limit you. (consciously or not.)

Then you dating others doesn't actually happen and she doesn't have to sweat it.
When I had presented the idea of opening our relationship, she was understandably hesitant. However her main concern was jealousy and Alice Louis thinking she would have to compete for my affection against my other partners. What this and what Alice Louis later told me was that she is afraid of one of my partners trying to separate me and Alice Louis. That is why she wanted me to only date partners who she trusted. As you can probably tell this was because of her anxiety and I agreed to it seeing how I had no problems with it. Being a commuter to college, I don't have as much personal interaction with my class much less my team outside of mandatory classes and practices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
SKIP dating her friend S. It leads to a weird dynamic, and it isn't AL's job to find your other partners for you. YOU could find your other partners.



AL's anxiety source is not your doing and her anxiety management is not your responsibility.

I wonder if you agreed to this one-sided agreement because YOU don't want to have to break up with AL and YOU still want to try poly dating? And this way you seemingly get both?
I've never wanted to break up with Alice Louis nor had I thought about it. I agreed because the people I did have feelings for were people she already knew. It was just a convenient coincidence that I didn't mind and honestly still don't mind for the time being. The people I currently have feelings for are the same people I have had feelings for before I met Alice Louis. I haven't really been interested in anyone recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Now I think I understand your hurry for AL to get well in the other thread and your over-involvement in that. Then this ill fitting agreement can be over.

There's another way to solve that though.



OK. Since it's already complicated? Be ok with complexity. I think you could gently tell AL that you have kept the agreement this long, find it pinches, and will no longer be keeping it. You want to be dating people at the college. You would also like to date her if she's still up for that. Be clear and be firm.
I understand that this deal is very unhealthy for a poly relationship but I honestly had not had too much issue with it. Obviously emotions and attraction will change as time passes but for right now this is one of the few things that isn't an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
You were willing before, could be willing now. Ask someone else at the college into your poly network. And keep being willing to let whatever happens, happen. Accept it.

Including telling AL you don't want to keep that agreement any more where she's in charge of "pre-approving your partners." You could ask AL into a new poly model where YOU choose your potential partners for yourself. The person she trusts is YOU. She trusts that you won't pick out wackies to date.

Rather than her preapproving partners for you that she trusts "not to take you away."

AL might decide this new poly model where you are responsible for your own self isn't for her and she might choose to bow out.
The partners/people I have wanted to pursue were my own choices. Alice Louis didn't pick them and still hasn't. Yes she trusts me not to date someone dangerous or crazy but her anxiety again comes with me leaving her because my other is just her but "better". This I haven't done and is a fear conjured up by her alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
But it is a healthier way of going because then each person responsible for their own consent, and their own level of participation and their own stuff.

Rather than you making poor agreements and later trying to figure out "how to get people to do X."

You are not responsible for everyone else's behaviors and choices. Just yours.

Right now you and AL are overstepping on each other. You are way too up in her healthcare choices. She is way too up in your dating choices. Both could back off some and each be responsible for their OWN things.
Honestly, I am more at fault of overstepping than Alice Louis is. I had brought up polyamory with Alice Louis because one of the people I have feelings for, we'll call him Cam, had recently gotten a lot more freedom in his life because of college and I was finally able to see and hang out with them due to his parents also hating me. One detail I should add is that I've known Cam since grade school and had dated him back when they still identified as female. We had both had feelings for each other since then but never dated again. Separate issue, as if I already hadn't brought up enough, Cam recently came out as FtM trans. Just trust me, I'll explain that in the next post since I have now mentioned him. Anyway back to the main 'story'. At that time Alice Louis was afraid that Cam, at the time female, would try to take me away from her. I didn't want something to happen between me and Cam that would jeopardize my relationship with Alice Louis. I have had a bad experience with cheating later the same girl would be the one to introduce polyamory to me but due to my mental health at the time was in the same position as Alice Louis is in now. However in that situation, Zepp didn't tell me that she wanted to open up our relationship much less that she had been flirting and sexting with other guys without me knowing. I know what it's like to be in Alice's position right now which is why I immediately brought it up as soon as I saw the same situation I had with Zepp play out before my eyes. I didn't want to cheat on her because I couldn't accept my own polyamory so I didn't want a monogamous relationship anymore so I wouldn't deeply hurt Alice Louis without wanting to like Zepp had done to me.

I swear this situation is just the poly version of "But wait! There's more! Rest in peace Billy Mays.

Last edited by MuffinButton; 03-20-2019 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Realized I introduced a later "character" much earlier on in the post
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2019, 02:46 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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MuffinButton, at this point in time, what is your desired outcome? What would you like to have happen?

Galagirl
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2019, 06:00 PM
MuffinButton MuffinButton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
MuffinButton, at this point in time, what is your desired outcome? What would you like to have happen?

Galagirl
Not to be that guy but in terms of what? In terms of relationships? Life goals? What in particular do you want me to answer?
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