husband and best friend want to have sex

SchrodingersCat

Active member
I'll try to be succinct, but more details may be necessary for clarification so please ask.

My best friend, practically my sister, is coming out of a psychologically and verbally abusive relationship. She lives in another city, and my husband works out of town about 1 hour away from her, on a 10-day-on/4-day-off cycle. He has been staying with her at night because she's afraid her ex will come back and do something stupid.

While they were together, they started having sexual feelings towards each other. They'd like to pursue a sexual, non-romantic relationship. Their motivation is a combination of "convenience sex" as well as reminding her that there are guys out there who aren't like her ex.

My husband has a long track record of successfully avoiding romantic feelings in sexual relationships, as well as letting girls down gently and remaining friends if they start to get attached. My friend has had fuck buddies before without getting attached. They've played together at fetish events before, and while it was a little weird after, there were no lasting effects on any of our relationships. They're both confident that they can avoid a romantic involvement.

Obviously, an arrangement like this (best friend with husband) can only work out if everyone is open and honest. That's already off to a bad start. First, they had "sexually charged cuddling" for two nights in a row before the question of sex was discussed with me. This has been addressed, but is still a cause for concern. Second, she doesn't communicate well and I don't think she's capable of being fully open and honest.

What are people's thoughts on this? Obviously I have some reservations or I wouldn't be posting, but I'm not sure how much of that is irrational fear, and how much is rational, based on reading failed experiences of others in similar situations.
 
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Hm, the first concern I would have is: Even if it didn't happen in the past during some situations for any of them, does that make 'no feelings possible to attach' a rule? It could be different from person to person they meet or get involved with. I know that some are able to separate sex and feelings (I am not, at least the sex doesn't feel that good without feelings, but never mind, I am not some kind of standard). But I would never assume some kind of guarantee that there will never develop something between them just because of that.

The second point coming to mind is this 'healer attitude'. Yes, there are nice men out there. Yes, shying away from all physical or intimate contact for life would be unhealthy. But this kind of sounds therapeutic and he isn't some kind of professional or something like that. So if the friend feels the need to overcome some fears, I would look elsewhere.

I wouldn't feel OK with this situation personally.
 
Well, SC, I have always thought of you as very rational and level-headed in your approach to poly. I don't know quite why, but I am a little surprised that you have concerns about this, especially since they have been sexual with each other before (I assume that's what you mean when you say they "played together at fetish events" - or was it not full-on intercourse/sex?). So, my question is, are you concerned that they actually will develop "romantic" feelings for each other? If so, what is it, exactly, that you are afraid of or apprehensive about? Or is it something else? Because I actually don't see too much of a problem in this situation. Again, I'm not sure why, but my gut reaction is that it will be fine if they go ahead and do this. This is just a sense I have from the little bit I have read about you and your husband's relationship in your posts -- as long as everyone voices any insecurities or discomfort and does what is needed to handle it.
 
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The second point coming to mind is this 'healer attitude'. Yes, there are nice men out there. Yes, shying away from all physical or intimate contact for life would be unhealthy. But this kind of sounds therapeutic and he isn't some kind of professional or something like that. So if the friend feels the need to overcome some fears, I would look elsewhere.

It's interesting that you caught that, because he actually has explicitly said that there's an element of therapy in this. He actually is a trained therapist (addictions counselling specifically, but it was a comprehensive program that dealt with all kinds of emotional issues), though he doesn't practice because he doesn't like dealing with other people's problems :p
 
Short version: they've never had sex, and I'm apprehensive that she could develop feelings for him that he is not capable of returning. That could make things weird and ruin our friendship. This is all compounded by some bad starts to open and honest communication (which I forgot to mention before and am now going to add to my original post).

Long version:

His penis has never been out of his pants when they've played, and it's always been in public. He put on a fisting workshop once and she was his demo. With a room full of "students" it was all very clinical and not at all sexy... and yet it was still weird between she and I afterwards. They played one other time at a fetish ball, and it was only spanking. So we're definitely entering new territory here.

My husband is not polyamorous, he just likes sexual variety. He has absolutely no desire for anything but fucking, nor does he have time and energy for an additional romantic relationship. Because of how he is, the possibility of them getting romantically involved is right off the table. I guess I'm apprehensive that she could develop feelings for him that he wouldn't return, and that our friendship would get caught in the crossfires. She's one of 3 people, not including my husband, that I really consider to be a close friend, and I can't afford to lose that over a few rolls in the hay... not when there's so much other cock and pussy out there, if it's really "just sex."

Obviously, an arrangement like this (best friend with husband) can only work out if everyone is open and honest. That's already off to a bad start for two reasons:

1. They had "sexually charged cuddling" for two nights in a row before the question of sex was discussed with me. He waited until he knew there was the possibility of sex happening. My husband's take was that if nothing was going to happen, why cause me distress by bringing it up? We've discussed that now, and he understands that I would rather have had a false alarm with full disclosure than to have been kept in the dark, but it still sounds my warning bells.

2. She's a terrible communicator. We were all trying to talk about this last night, and she was just saying what she thought I wanted to hear so that I would give the go ahead. For example, I mentioned my concern about feelings developing. She just said "well, that won't happen. It didn't happen last time, why would this be any different?" I find that attitude naive. Afterwords, in private conversation with my husband, he admitted that her body language did not match the words coming out of her mouth. I don't feel like I can trust her to admit it if she starts to have feelings for him, because she knows it would put an end to the arrangement. I would basically be putting all my trust in my husband's ability to read her and stay ahead of any fallouts, and if that doesn't work out, it could damage my trust in him, which would be awful.

I'm the kind of person who learns from the mistakes of others. I'm not naive enough to believe that we're above those risks just because we're more informed and rational. If I had a crystal ball and I knew there would be no fallouts to my friendship or marriage, then I wouldn't be worried at all. But I've seen far too many horror stories on here where people went into things planning on it being casual or whatever, and then things blew up, relationships were destroyed, friendships lost. That's what I'm trying to avoid.
 
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This is not a good sign.

I agree, and that's one of my biggest reasons for concern. It's not even that I think she's being deliberately manipulative or something. It's more like, she's been manipulated for the last 3 years. She had to form a protective layer to cope, and forget about telling her abusive boyfriend how she felt. I suspect she's learned to tell HERSELF what SHE needs to hear, and now she needs to unlearn that behaviour.
 
Maybe

I am new to this forum(today) so I'm probably not someone to listen to all that closely. I would say that you know the answer to this yourself the best. If you find it acceptable for them to pursue this sexual relationship, then go ahead. I think she is a bit too soon out of the relationship and without knowing specific facts or anything I'd say that just open, honest, companionship would probably be better. If she still desires the sexual relationship down the line then I don't think it would be totally out of line to allow it as long as you are all willing and open about it.

Just my two cents I thought I'd add in.
 
Part of me agrees that while she's in a fragile state, this may not be the best move for her... but part of me also says that she's a grown-up and should be allowed to make her own mistakes.

In other words, what right do I have to make those decisions for her? If this is a bad move on her part, it's her bad move to make. I truly don't think she would ever turn around and blame him if it ended up messing with her head or something. It's not like he's taking advantage of her, she wants this probably more than he does.

My knee-jerk reaction is that this isn't a good idea. I can't entirely explain why, I've tried to do it anyway, but there are "solutions" to each of my specific concerns.

I think it's basically that I don't want us to get caught in any kind of turmoil. My husband has an excellent sense of where people are at psychologically, so if he thinks it would be fine then it probably would be... but I keep bringing up things to which he responds "hmm, I didn't think of that" so I'm not sure he's thought through all the possibilities...

It probably won't amount to much ongoing anyway, because he's already feeling drained just driving the extra hour each way to get to work, staying up later than he normally would, and giving up his solitude "me time" in order to be there supporting her. He's done a lot of counselling to cope with his codependency, and he's learned the value of protecting himself, and that he can't help people when he's hanging on by a thread.

One thing is clear to me: if this goes ahead, we need to plan for contingencies. It's not enough to just plan on them not happening, we need to decide how to handle whatever emotions might come up. It's been years since she's had sex with anyone but her abusive ex, and despite what they both believe, I can well imagine it bringing up some difficult emotions. My husband doesn't really have the energy right now to support someone in a total breakdown.

New thread started for the "what if" because I want to separate it from the "whether."
 
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Part of me agrees that while she's in a fragile state, this may not be the best move for her... but part of me also says that she's a grown-up and should be allowed to make her own mistakes.

In other words, what right do I have to make those decisions for her? If this is a bad move on her part, it's her bad move to make. I truly don't think she would ever turn around and blame him if it ended up messing with her head or something. It's not like he's taking advantage of her, she wants this probably more than he does.

[...]

I think it's basically that I don't want us to get caught in any kind of turmoil. My husband has an excellent sense of where people are at psychologically, so if he thinks it would be fine then it probably would be... but I keep bringing up things to which he responds "hmm, I didn't think of that" so I'm not sure he's thought through all the possibilities...

I think this is you having the right to make the decision for YOU. It doesn't just affect her, your husband, or her healing process. It affects all three of you and her healing process. Sure, having a safe FWB situation may be just what she needs right now, but that doesn't mean it has to be with your husband that could cause lasting change in the dynamic between you and her, her and him, and all three of you (I'm guessing it probably wouldn't change much between you and him unless it changes YOUR view on HIS sex with others).

Personally, I tend to trust my gut when it comes to sexual situations. When I feel like something bad could happen, I avoid it to avoid whatever negative consequence I foresee happening. I would rather miss out on a little bit of sexual gratification than deal with the potential loss of a good relationship with a friend.
 
While I think there's a place for therapeutic escorts, I question if it's a good idea for someone who has such a personal relationship with her to do that. Coming out of a monogamous abusive relationship doesn't seem like the best time to start sleeping with a best friend's husband - It's bound to get everyone looking at the past, present, and future with a microscope.

If she can work through her issues and be totally open and honest, I say go for it. It sounds like before she can do this, she'll have to work on her relationship with you.
 
I've allowed my self to admit that I'm really not comfortable with this. I've been trying to rationalize it, tell myself that it's just normal jealousy that I can deal with... but I don't think it is. This is my best friend. She's been my friend for 14 years. That's much different from some random chick he meets at a bar. It's not even about damaging the relationship, although that's also a factor.

At the end of the day, I think I feel that it's not fair of them to ask this of me. I feel like I'm being put in a tight spot, where I'm putting pressure on myself to agree to something deep down feels wrong.

Like many of you said, I have to trust my gut. First, that required really acknowledging what my gut is telling me, and that it's not just being selfish or squeamish or irrational, but that it's trying to tell me that this is not a good road to go down.

What I haven't mentioned here, and was downplaying to myself all day, is that this woke me up at least twice last night. Previous times when I've dealt with jealousy or uncomfortable feelings about my husband's penis in another woman's vagina, it's never had such a visceral, physical reaction such as the knots in my stomach or waking up thinking about it. I need to let myself acknowledge that my body knows something my brain won't admit, and I need to go with it.

Thanks for everyone's input.
 
I think your friend may need to work on some self-healing BEFORE getting involved in any type of male-female relationship again. If she doesn't, rather than being helpful it could actually get in the way of her working through her healing process. Sometimes we have to feel the aloneness...the emptiness...to start to deal with it. If we jump right into another relationship...even of a different nature...we can allow ourselves to be "distracted" by the dynamics of the relationship and not have to focus on ourselves.

One doesn't typically go to a friend for "therapy" of most any kind. I'm a therapist...a damn good one if I do say so myself! But, I don't have my family or friends come to me for therapy. I might make suggestions or share thoughts if asked, but the deep work of therapy requires an objectivity and distancing that doesn't work well within personal relationships. And I don't depend on myself when I need therapy....I go to someone else...and NOT one of my friends who are therapists no matter how good they are.
 
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I think your friend may need to work on some self-healing BEFORE getting involved in any type of male-female relationship again.
One doesn't typically go to a friend for "therapy" of most any kind.

I may have overblown the "therapeutic" aspect of their relationship. More than anything, it's been friendship, support, and literal protection... and then the sexual attraction developed.

But I couldn't agree more that she needs to deal with her trauma before getting into a relationship. However, she's always been one of those people who poopoos therapy and just pretends her problems don't exist, hoping they'll go away. It's been painful watching her go through things, knowing that there are ways she could handle it so that she would heal. But at the end of the day, you have to accept that your friends are going to do what they're going to do, and you can't nag them into making the "right" choices.

My girlfriend came over to support me last night, and she prompted me to get to the bottom of my gut feeling. Not so that I could overcome it, but so that I could understand it. We talked a lot about it, and it became clear that the biggest thing that bothered me was the fact that both my husband and best friend were so adamant that there was no way feelings could develop between them if they had sex. I just think that's naive. Since they both refused to admit (to themselves) that it was at least a remote possibility, they certainly had no plan in place to deal with it if that happened.
 
...it became clear that the biggest thing that bothered me was the fact that both my husband and best friend were so adamant that there was no way feelings could develop between them if they had sex. I just think that's naive. Since they both refused to admit (to themselves) that it was at least a remote possibility, they certainly had no plan in place to deal with it if that happened.

Your instincts are really pointing you to something important. I believe that if one says never, ever, ever *blank* will happen or I will never, ever feel *blah* and *blah*, well that is just inviting the universe to mess things up. What we fear the most, what we won't face directly, well that invariably bites us on teh ass. This is a good reason to put the brakes on this particular possibility, as well as what others have said about her vulnerability right now.
 
I would humbly suggest that your relationship with your bestie needs work. Throughout the thread, I haven`t gotten the sense of why she`d be your best friend at all. What do you admire about her? So far, she sounds like a nightmare.

I`ll throw in my vote that the "therapeutic" angle sounds like a douchey excuse from two people who just want to fuck. That being said, I`m not into vetoing partners from having sex. But, I do not know what agreements you have in place with your live-in partner.
 
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Who said anything about a veto? A veto agreement grants partners the right to end relationships or disallow activities. That's completely different from when the partner specifically asks you how you feel about something that could potentially affect a friendship that pre-exists the marriage by a decade. I call that respecting one another's wishes. It's not just semantics. One is "I'm allowed to do this, only if you say I'm allowed." The other is "I love you and I trust your judgement. I believe that you will not behave selfishly just to avoid having icky feelings."

This thread was about me getting to the bottom of my feelings and whether or not I approve. You can't tell me that you never disapprove of any choices your partners make. Well you can, but I'll call you a liar.

My husband is a free man with his own agency. I wouldn't be with him if he wasn't. And he wouldn't have married me if he thought I was a petty and jealous bitch. So when I say that I have a really bad gut feeling about something, he trusts that it's not a manipulation or avoidance of icky feelings. I've experienced plenty of icky feelings throughout our journey, and have grown from them every time. I don't shy away from icky feelings just because they're icky.

I also know the difference between icky feelings and gut feelings, though sometimes I'm stubborn about actually listening to myself. As I've evidenced here, I tend to err on the side of assuming they're just icky feelings that I can deal with. Only after much deliberation did I realize it was more significant.


As for why we're friends, like with all my best relationships, there's no quantifiable reason. We met in high school and have always been close. It's one of those friendships where you can just pick up the phone after months and it's like you haven't missed a day. And although it's taken 15 years and this ordeal to realize it, we really can tell each other anything. Our communication has already started to improve. I do agree that our relationship needs some work, and this experience has actually ignited that process.

I don't walk out on my friends just because they have issues. Isn't that exactly the thing that makes it friendship? Had she been a mere acquaintance, I wouldn't have given two shits about her potential broken heart.


I thought I'd addressed the therapeutic angle, but I probably wasn't clear. They never denied that they just wanted to fuck. They both admit that it's primarily a matter of convenience. My husband also felt that she could benefit from the release with someone safe. My friend denied any therapeutic benefits that she could think of, except possibly proving to herself that her ex was full of shit when he said no one else would want her.
 
Totally agree with you about the difference between veto and asking someone's opinion. I am very glad that you have that dialogue going for you. The fact that this has increased the closeness between you and your friend is also a great thing, for sure.

I thought I'd addressed the therapeutic angle, but I probably wasn't clear. They never denied that they just wanted to fuck. They both admit that it's primarily a matter of convenience. My husband also felt that she could benefit from the release with someone safe. My friend denied any therapeutic benefits that she could think of, except possibly proving to herself that her ex was full of shit when he said no one else would want her.
I just really feel that it could do more harm than good.

I have had friends who struggled to feel desirable, so I have had second-hand experience of what that is like. The problem is that the mind-games can be played when you are self-doubting. Even if you have sex with someone, your mind goes to "yeah, but that was just a sympathy fuck, he didn't really WANT to."

The main thing is that it seems like you are all thinking about it, which means you will reach a well-considered decision about what to do.
 
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