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  #31  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:19 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Hell, even if he'd told me it was her, I'd still be mad as hell that he took the call!!!! Unless she was experiencing a true emergency, a conversation about deep issues in his marriage shouldn't get interrupted by his secondary partner/gf/fling/whatever! To me that just shows a huge lack of seriousness and respect on his part...

Good on you for calling his bluff. I don't know what I'd do. Trust is so, so important. The fact that you've lied before does NOT make it ok.
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  #32  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:52 PM
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I'm conflicted, myself, about how important I want this girl to be, to him! On one hand, I like it -- I like seeing that he is developing deeper feelings, that he cares about her and she is not just some piece of fluff.

On the other hand -- he SAYS she's just fluff, to him!

So which one is it?

He thinks it makes me feel better to hear that she is not important to him. My EGO likes it. But my heart does not. My heart goes out to her, as I know she is falling deeply in love with him, and she does not consider HIM "fluff," in her life.

Like I just mentioned on another thread, he is afraid that everything he does with her, gives me license to do the same with Butch.

I think he suspects that i am setting him up, that I want him to go deeper with him, so I can go deeper with Butch.

I wonder about that, myself. I guess there is a real mix there, of altruistic and selfish motives. I want him to be happy, I want me to be happy! I would really like to find a nice balance, here, and sometimes I believe it is possible, and others I feel like this is an absolute mess, and failure is inevitable! This balancing act is still new and wobbly at this point, so that's what I am trying to keep in mind. We are in unchartered waters -- it's not always going to be smooth, right?

So one minute, I give him space to text her, I back off, go in the other room, whatever. The next I want to read everything they're saying. Then I get pissed and don't give a shit what they're saying, I'm just miffed that he is texting her instead of paying attention to me. I get resentful that they aren't as respectful as Butch and me, who refrain from any contact when Sundance is with me (and frankly, overall. We limit our contact. It's better for all of us, and I have adjusted to it very well). But his relationship with her is DIFFERENT. I can't expect it to be a carbon copy. I know what it feels like to be in her shoes, and I know how much it means to be in contact with him now, when things are fresh and romantic and lovey and new. How can I deny them that??? She loves him. I empathize. What I don't know for sure is, where is his heart going to go, and how will he handle things? It's unknown, and my human nature is fearful of that. Intellectually, I have to rise above the fear, put it in perspective and say, WHO KNOWS. And be open to the adventure, of love and life.
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  #33  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Like I just mentioned on another thread, he is afraid that everything he does with her, gives me license to do the same with Butch.

I think he suspects that i am setting him up, that I want him to go deeper with him, so I can go deeper with Butch.
I am sorry, but I am frowning again and again over what you share here and I am starting to get mad about it. IF this is his motivation in this whole mess, to use other people to manipulate one another, he needs to stop right now. No one deserves to be treated this way because of a struggle two people got with each other. As you said, she doesn't deserve this.

I myself would never tolerate lies. If someone can't be honest with me there is something wrong with our relationship and respect. And the lies that you suspect him to tell aren't of the "little white kind". My short take of what happened, I am sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but I couldn't stand this situation personally and would move heaven and earth to get it sorted out.

Good luck.
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  #34  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Hell, even if he'd told me it was her, I'd still be mad as hell that he took the call!!!! Unless she was experiencing a true emergency, a conversation about deep issues in his marriage shouldn't get interrupted by his secondary partner/gf/fling/whatever! To me that just shows a huge lack of seriousness and respect on his part...
THIS!!!!

I suspect, he was looking for an excuse to exit the conversation anyway. Give him a better alternative (even if gf hadn't called), let him know it's OK to say "I just can't discuss this over the phone anymore, I need a break. Can we pick it up when I get home?". Such conversations are difficult face to face and even more so over the phone, while driving.

Quote:
The fact that you've lied before does NOT make it ok.
I think I would ask him if the lies are his way of getting revenge for the past or does he really think your marriage should continue to be based on lies and lack of trust. I realize it's probably not that simple, but it took similar harsh words for things to click for my husband about how much damage his "little white lies" were doing to us. He truly didn't see it the same and couldn't understand why I was so bent out of shape. We still struggle with omission of facts and I have to play 20 questions if I suspect that's the case (it's not always intentional).
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  #35  
Old 08-25-2011, 05:58 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I don't agree with the lying, but maybe here's some motivation/understanding/another point of view. Read what you've written:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
So one minute, I give him space to text her, I back off, go in the other room, whatever. The next I want to read everything they're saying. Then I get pissed and don't give a shit what they're saying, I'm just miffed that he is texting her instead of paying attention to me. I get resentful that they aren't as respectful as Butch and me, who refrain from any contact when Sundance is with me (and frankly, overall. We limit our contact. It's better for all of us, and I have adjusted to it very well). But his relationship with her is DIFFERENT. I can't expect it to be a carbon copy. I know what it feels like to be in her shoes, and I know how much it means to be in contact with him now, when things are fresh and romantic and lovey and new. How can I deny them that???
If the roles were reversed, would you really want to deal with that kind of unpredictable behaviour every time Butch made contact with you??

Indigo lies about stupid shit. It used to happen a lot. Now it's less frequent. But it was/is happening as a defense mechanism. He did not even realize he was doing it most of the time. In fact, we would frequently have conversations about the lying, only to have him turn around and lie within an hour. WTF?

This behaviour came from getting bitched at for stupid things in past relationships, in addition to my own unreasonable reactions to relatively trivial things that are (though less so now) triggers. As I've learned to control myself better, watch what I say and how I say it, he has been able to catch his automatic lies because he's not so on guard around me. When I "catch" him now, I simply tell him how hurtful it is, and he immediately offers up a sincere apology. Usually, we can get on with things after that. He also calls me on my own shit a little more, stands up for himself, instead of resisting via lying.

Indigo had a bit of a hard time accepting that he was lying at first. He honestly viewed it as keeping the peace.

That's been my experience. Hopefully it's helpful to you.
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  #36  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
Indigo had a bit of a hard time accepting that he was lying at first. He honestly viewed it as keeping the peace.
Oh Boy! That sounds familiar . Although, after a while, it was based on his assumptions based on a completely unrelated event 15 years ago. All I can say is, deal with it now not years down the road, it just gets harder.
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Hell, even if he'd told me it was her, I'd still be mad as hell that he took the call!!!!
Me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Like I just mentioned on another thread, he is afraid that everything he does with her, gives me license to do the same with Butch.

I think he suspects that i am setting him up, that I want him to go deeper with him, so I can go deeper with Butch.
Well, we all do manipulative things unconsciously, but how deep you go in your relationship with Butch is... pretty much up to Butch, isn't it? Butch is the one who requires a certain amount of distance, doesn't he? Anyway, it's not like you and Sundance can really determine the depth of your relationship with Butch, or his relationship with Barbie. Those things are determined by the hearts involved.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 08-25-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:27 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Just a thought that came to me... has he thought about what's going to happen when he 1) calls it off with her with no warning or 2) she finds out he lied to her completely about your relationship and other things-- with this woman he WORKS with?

Ay, yi, yi.

I really don't understand when people date people they work with. And then are surprised when there's major drama when it's over and one person is finding a new job.
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxxa View Post
Just a thought that came to me... has he thought about what's going to happen when he 1) calls it off with her with no warning or 2) she finds out he lied to her completely about your relationship and other things-- with this woman he WORKS with?
Yes, I agree. NOT a good situation for someone you work with. That will be very messy. AND she brought him to a thing with her family, which is why I said this a while back:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
She would feel like total shit introducing him to her family with a certain idea of who he is and what his marriage is like, only to find out later that he lied to her about it.
Well, she WILL feel like total shit about this relationship because of the lies, no doubt about that.

Sundance, oh Sundance! Where are you? Come out, come out, wherever you are! Methinks you've got some unspoken shit going on and confusion about a few things... and we want to help!

(I do hope he comes here to post, Carma)
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:05 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post

I suspect, he was looking for an excuse to exit the conversation anyway. Give him a better alternative (even if gf hadn't called), let him know it's OK to say "I just can't discuss this over the phone anymore, I need a break. Can we pick it up when I get home?". Such conversations are difficult face to face and even more so over the phone, while driving.


The only reason he would have been feeling this way is if he were feeling guilty about the little white lies he's been telling all along that he has no intention of 'fessing up to! Because otherwise, discussions about honesty are usually some of his favorites -- because he so desperately wants 100% from ME and we are brutal, on MY side of the truth, anyway!

>>>>>>>>(OTHER HALF OF YOUR QUOTE>>> DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, DUH):

"I think I would ask him if the lies are his way of getting revenge for the past or does he really think your marriage should continue to be based on lies and lack of trust. I realize it's probably not that simple, but it took similar harsh words for things to click for my husband about how much damage his "little white lies" were doing to us. He truly didn't see it the same and couldn't understand why I was so bent out of shape. We still struggle with omission of facts and I have to play 20 questions if I suspect that's the case (it's not always intentional)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am freaked out by it, because I don't WANT to play detective in our marriage. Fuck that,I know what you mean about the 20 questions -- sometimes I'm tempted to play it, but others I just refuse to live that way. I'd rather live with the fucking lies than demean myself to go digging for the truth.
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