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  #41  
Old 08-22-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
To me, it means being committed to working on loving relationships in multiples. There is a lot of work, and a process, no matter how you go about it, or what your personal belief, on those processes are.
***
To me, 'Open' means you are literally open to a wide variety of non-mongamous scenarios. This could include a 'mix' of dating, caring, sex, LTR, with all, or some people that come into your life. That is where I place myself.
I like your definitions and intend to shamefully plagiarize them in the future.
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  #42  
Old 08-22-2011, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Nycindiie,

I'm confused.... one post you say you don't identity as poly..... a couple postings later you feel exasperated and offended when someone see's you as just dating ( and not being poly). How can you have it both ways....
I did not say I was offended, just exasperated. I have more self-worth than to feel offended by someone's comments. And my words were directed to the issue of division in the poly community.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "both ways." What are the ways, identifying as poly and not? Or identifying as poly and practicing poly?

When I say I do not identify as polyamorous, I mean that I don't see people as wired that way. I'm just saying that I choose to live polyamorously. That's all. I disagree that polyamory is something you identify as, like a gender or sexual orientation. Human beings have a wide capacity for relating to each other, and whether or not they are more aligned with polyamory or monogamy has to do with culture, societal conditioning, their belief systems, and how their personalities have developed. I simply see polyamory as a relationship structure and a practice, and I am a human being who strives to live polyamorously. I think it is a tiresome exercise when people struggle with "am I poly or not?" Well, I don't think that's as important as asking what kind of relationships you want in your life and how to create them.

So, I can refer to myself as being polyamorous because that adjective describes how I choose to live, just like saying I am separated describes the status of my marriage. I do not describe myself as polyamorous to say that it is my nature/wiring/identity. I've always described myself as childfree because that is how I chose to live, even though I had a functioning womb with which to produce offspring.

I've talked about this before. This is from the "lifestyle vs. identity in polyamory" thread:
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I am a human being who chooses to live polyamorously. I see relationships as poly or mono, not people. My happiness, sense of fulfillment, self-esteem comes from my own internal work on myself, self-knowledge, etc., but is not dependent upon the structure of my relationship(s).

Polyamory is a possibility, and a container for which to develop relationships. If I say "I'm polyamorous," I don't mean that being polyamorous is my nature. When I say that, I mean that is how I choose to live. If I were to say, "I'm single," no one would ask me, "oh, are you hard-wired that way?"
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 08-22-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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  #43  
Old 08-22-2011, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I think it is a tiresome exercise when people struggle with "am I poly or not?" Well, I don't think that's as important as asking what kind of relationships you want in your life and how to create them.
This is brilliant. There have been plenty of insights in the thread, but I think this one really cuts through all the semantics and gets to the heart of the matter.
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  #44  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalExile View Post
I like your definitions and intend to shamefully plagiarize them in the future.
Duly noted.

With my blessings.
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  #45  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Ah, christ, please.

When the word "polyamory" was being coined, it was due to a need. The folks who coined it needed a term for a form of nonmonogamy for which there was no accurate term. Both swinging and open relationships had been in long use and had known meanings when referring to those forms of nonmonogamy.

Why were folks searching for a new term? Because what they needed to describe *is something different than what the terms "swinging" and "open" describe.* They needed a different term to describe a different way of doing nonmonogamy.

So, what do we know about the meaning of this new term, "polyamory?" We find that the it was coined specifically to describe a subset of nonmonogamy involving romantic relationships, and approach that the terms "swinging" and "open" do not describe.

As for the living language argument, I'll observe that the term qualifies as jargon and is not subject to the same sort of frippery that general language is. As technical terms in engineering or law or jewelrymaking or any of a multitude of fields show, jargon is held to different standards than general usage words so that the meaning is constant and useful. So, while "awful" may have some common connotations today that it didn't have 150 years ago, there are many terms that have the exact same connotations now as they did then. (I won't bother getting into how such slippage appears to happen primarily to adjectives....)
I would argue that, at least where marriage is concerned, you have to be "open" in order to be active swingers or polyamarous.
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  #46  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:47 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post

When I say I do not identify as polyamorous, I mean that I don't see people as wired that way. I'm just saying that I choose to live polyamorously. That's all. I disagree that polyamory is something you identify as, like a gender or sexual orientation. Human beings have a wide capacity for relating to each other, and whether or not they are more aligned with polyamory or monogamy has to do with culture, societal conditioning, their belief systems, and how their personalities have developed. I simply see polyamory as a relationship structure and a practice, and I am a human being who strives to live polyamorously.
nycindie summed it up for me.

This is what i wanted to write and it's also why i think it's hard to ask or talk about a poly community. Although it's viewed negatively in US society, I don't think it has the same pull of bringing folks together as other identities because of what she noted. And, for me, just because someone practices polyamory doesn't mean that I will have anything in common with them beyond that. We can see this in the diversity of practices associated with it here and also the claims for territory of the words itself. I'm not trying to say that there aren't and can't be communities among people who are polyamorous, but they're not natural. The idea of going to a poly festival or gathering doesn't appeal to me at all, but I'd be inclined to go out with a group of poly folks who I meet who I have other things in common with as well as being poly.
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  #47  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:50 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
Ding, ding, ding,.... yep to all.

******

To me, it means being committed to working on loving relationships in multiples. There is a lot of work, and a process, no matter how you go about it, or what your personal belief, on those processes are.

***

To me, 'Open' means you are literally open to a wide variety of non-mongamous scenarios. This could include a 'mix' of dating, caring, sex, LTR, with all, or some people that come into your life.
That is where I place myself.
I think I'm confused by these definitions. Why couldn't poly include some of the things you're including under "open"? You could have multiple loving relationships and dating, sex, etc. etc.

I guess I don't really think it's so easy to separate how people use these two words -- poly and open.
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  #48  
Old 08-22-2011, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
To me, 'Open' means you are literally open to a wide variety of non-mongamous scenarios. This could include a 'mix' of dating, caring, sex, LTR, with all, or some people that come into your life.
That is where I place myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
I think I'm confused by these definitions. Why couldn't poly include some of the things you're including under "open"? You could have multiple loving relationships and dating, sex, etc. etc.

I guess I don't really think it's so easy to separate how people use these two words -- poly and open.
Well, you can be poly AND open, or poly and NOT open. Open doesn't necessarily equate with poly, because many polyfolk are polyfidelitous and, hence, NOT open. Polyamory having a focus of loving relationships and open being, well, open to non-monogamous liaisons that don't necessarily involve love or an ongoing commitment.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 08-23-2011 at 03:41 AM.
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  #49  
Old 08-22-2011, 11:06 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Well, you can be poly AND open, or poly and NOT open. Open doesn't necessarily equate with poly, because many polyfolk are polyfidelitous and, hence, NOT open. Polyamory having a focus of loving relationships and open being, well, open to non-monogamous liaisons that don't necessarily involve love or an ongoing commitment.
Yes, but I suppose the issue for me becomes all these labels and their microlabels, etc. and where we fit all the practices. In my mind polyfidelity is closer (*not the same*) to monogamy than some other poly practices.

Whew. Just reading all this makes me want to just say "open" even though how I live and structure my relationships fits under the way people define poly.
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  #50  
Old 08-22-2011, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
In my mind polyfidelity is closer (*not the same*) to monogamy than some other poly practices.
A poly tribe of 20 people all involved with each other could be poly-fi, and that is definitely nowehere near monogamous! Just sayin'.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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