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  #11  
Old 08-06-2011, 10:29 AM
OptionD OptionD is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
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What you wrote was very telling. Perhaps the first most important step in letting go of your insecurities is to stop thinking of the women you date as your possessions.
Indeed nycindie! It's a big transition of consciousness.

I had another thought a little while ago though. If you'll allow me to put my David Attenborough hat on for a moment

From what I know about the psychology of relationships, much of it is rooted in primal ape like behavior, our personal beliefs etc don't even enter into the decisions we make in the process of our attraction and courtship.

Women are drawn to characteristics of a man like his self-confidence (usually stopping short of being aggressive), this would also include how cool he is under pressure. (Women love a man who remains witty and charming and unaffected by sexual insecurity.) Lots of subtle cues tip a woman's primal brain off about when she is in the presence of an alpha male. I wouldn't even be surprised if there are a whole host of pheromones involved or subtle chemical, body language, and other subliminal cues that trigger a woman's attraction.
In fact I think what I'm saying is based on all those documentaries I've watched over the years about these things. You know those one's about the mechanics of human interaction...
So they don't relise they're doing it, but women are programmed to seek after the alpha male. Younger apes, are less cool under the pressure of courtship, are more sexually needy etc. The same is true of younger men, and this is one reason why young women mature faster and usually prefer to date older men. It's all there in evolution ;0P

Men are also primitively attuned to this, which is why it's so hard for men to break the cycle of being possessive, and seeking alpha male status.
It's a vicious cycle and it's not just the fault of men's or women's genetics,
both sexes primitive psychology creates the patterns of behavior that lead to polygamy and monogamy.

The way I see it society has thrown out polygamy as the main institution of romantic relationship in society, and moved to monogamy. Now times are continuing to change, and social progression demands that people be able to enjoy any kind of relationship they choose to be in without fear of social reprimand.

That's my take on it anyway.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:28 PM
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He thinks me doing certain things with other guys is dirty and it makes him uncomfortable to touch me. Me being with other guys makes him see me as no different from the casual, no strings attached girls he's been with. It's like everything else in our relationship - the emotional attachment, the way we interact and add value to each others' lives in so many other ways - suddenly means nothing if I sleep with other people.

......We've both identified as polyamorous and he's been with multiple partners for a couple years now. Even though I haven't been with as many other partners, I've never had any reason to believe he was SO set in this kind of mentality at all. He's reacting right now as though I just dropped this idea of polyamory on him out of nowhere and he doesn't understand anything about it. BUT, he doesn't have any of those thoughts about himself. He still feels the same way and doesn't feel like his actions affect our relationship at all. The only thing that's making him hesitant to attempt being with anyone else is feeling guilty because he knows he's essentially taken that option away from me

It feels like he can understand and accept this lifestyle if it's him or anyone else living it, but when it comes to HIS partner, I need to be only his possession. I have no idea what to do or how to help. The last thing I want is to start resenting him for simply feeling what he genuinely feels.
Mono used to be threatened by me going to hang out with men because he felt men would take advantage of me and he wanted to protect me. I explained ownership to him and it took awhile for him to realize that he could be concerned for my well being and be ready to protect me if I asked for it, rather than jumping to conclusions and fighting off any man that came along.

I understood that he didn't covet me and own me so much as loved me so much that he saw me as a beautiful temple of loveliness that he thought I should be careful with and cherish as much as he did. When I met him I had been with partners just for casual sex and he had the same attitude towards it as your man does now. He was disgusted and dismayed that I would let others use my body in such a way. I now see it the same way as he does actually and don't allow anyone in to use me in that way any more. I was used 9 times out of 10; I get that others aren't or don't see it that way.

I would wonder if your partner is seeing things similarly to what I said about Mono and perhaps he is also recovering from the stress and dynamic that was created from your time of not being able to have sex. It could of taken a toll in terms of his view on your body, its worth and his need to protect it and covet it somehow. I don't think I am using the right words, but it might warrant a conversation about how he felt going through all that. Including how he felt having sport/casual sex. It sounds like there might be some guilt there or a blasť attitude that has shaped his thoughts about certain kinds of sex.

Your post was very helpful to me actually, as it affirmed that sometimes, and some men use women for sex without regard to their worth holistically. I'm sure some women also do this. Thanks for that affirmation. I love feeling more empowered and more set in my boundaries as a result

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he realizes I'm a great catch [if I do say so myself!! ] and worries any guy I'm with will want to steal me away. But he also understands that *I* also would need to want to leave him and he understands that I... am... polyamorous. Even if I developed feelings for someone else, it would not mean I'd love him less nor would I ever want to end my relationship with him for it.
Realizes they might want to steal you away? Or use you for sex and not appreciate you as he does? How do you see yourself? Do you have sex quickly with men? Is there a relationship established before hand? All these factors could come in to play for him.
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Last edited by redpepper; 08-06-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:58 PM
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I can say from personal experience that I and all the men I know are pretty insecure about sex. It's a competitive dominance thing. If I think another man is taking a position of power over my woman it makes me feel undermined. Men do this stuff to each other all day long, the silent power play between who is in control, and women are a focal point for this.
Because monogamy is so ingrained it's part of our automatic social power play. So if I'm seeing a girl and I know she's seeing other guys at the same time, I feel very insecure and I most certainly wouldn't want to meet the other guys and talk to them because there's this competitive struggle.

It would take a lot of personal insight and self control for a lot of men to learn to overcome this insecurity. I'm not sure about women, maybe it's the same, I'm not all that in tune with how women's social politics works.

It seems to me that I could overcome the fear of other men being with my girl, it's just a matter of learning to trust in her adoration and commitment to me.
I imagine it would be much easier if I as a trusting friend of the men my partner was sleeping with. Obviously though in today's world that's not going to be practical most of the time. I can imagine it would be difficult to get into the whole group love thing, as it would be hard to find many partners who are poly aware.

Those are all my insights having no experience in poly relationships of course! But I have to say I'm really liking the idea of poly relationships. It feels like it's what I've always wanted but had never even heard about.
This does indeed seem like ownership thoughts... I remembering hearing similar ideas from Mono. Sometimes that comes through again...and we talk again.... over and over.... he did grow up with that mentality and his career choice promotes this mentality... he is in the military and a lot of the men he has worked with have a nice little wifey at home who takes care of his babies while they are at sea. They seem to think that the dirty fucking is for the prostitutes they buy overseas. That kind of dirtiness is not meant for wives. Wives are like the expensive truck or motorbike they own. Not the rental they get in foreign ports.

I can barely stand it some days when he tells me stories of work. Then I meet some of these men and they treat me like Mono's possession. Or perhaps that is what I think they are doing. Ya, I am pretty sure that thoughts of that go through their head. They look me up and down, size me up to determine if I am worth of owning and then Mono has some kind of status because of it. There is pressure for him to marry me so that the cycle will be complete. So that he too can join the ranks again that are appropriate for men in the military... back to the whoring! Woot... if only they knew what is going down with him at home. He already tells them I am a burlesque dancer and that he is involved with BDSM. That just blows their mind that I would be that "dirty!" The fact that he is my live in boyfriend would lesson his status in the ranks rather than promote him.

Ya, we have had many a conversation about the difference between his old mentality and the one that I subscribe to which is to be proud of your self and the amount of work you have done on yourself rather than who you think you own... walking hand in hand in a journey together, figuring out better boundaries for oneself and for ones relationships, trusting and committing to that journey of togetherness is far more productive as far as I can see.

Still, men think they can own women. Full stop. What men don't realize is that women have their own thing going on and when put in a position that they are thought of as owned, they tend to go underground to get their need for autonomy. That means they equally fuck around behind their partners back and are not owned at all.... all that chance for commitment, trust, REAL autonomy with integrity; lost. Poly allows for all of that to disappear just by being honest, communicating openly and respecting that their is not one gender more powerful than the other. There is only empowerment.
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  #14  
Old 08-07-2011, 02:09 AM
OptionD OptionD is offline
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Poly allows for all of that to disappear just by being honest, communicating openly and respecting that their is not one gender more powerful than the other. There is only empowerment.
Wow that's right! I can't get enough of hearing people say that, because that's my impression of it. I've only done some actual reading about polyamory over the last few day, and it's always been my impression everything that I read.

I suppose it's about freedom of choice, and the honesty, maturity and empowerment that it brings to relationships. It's so freeing!

Last edited by OptionD; 08-07-2011 at 02:50 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2011, 01:31 AM
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Here's my question: for any of you who have partners who are monogamous, what was the process of acceptance like for them? A lot of what I'm seeing is stuff I already know [and my partner knows as well]. What happens when they reach a point that they understand what's behind their feelings? What can they do to start working through those kinds of thoughts and accepting me being with other partners?

Right now, it's very frustrating - for HIM as much as it is for me - because he does understand the things that cause these reactions. On an intellectual level he doesn't agree with them, so he's being someone he doesn't want to be. He feels guilty because he's also polyamorous and sees me managing with him having other partners but can't give me the same freedom. He has negative reactions and we're able to sit down and discuss, pinpoint exactly what bothers him and where it's coming from.

But HOW do we deal with the actual negative reactions? As much as I'd like to be patient and understanding, it hurts when he says/does the things he does... not even just when I'm actually with anyone else but when he just gets in his head, thinking about it.

And what do we do at this point? We get what the issue is, we don't get how to move forward? As I said, we are looking for a counselor, but I'm just wondering if any of you guys have insight/personal experience that might help.
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  #16  
Old 08-09-2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OptionD View Post
So maybe what your partner is worried about is the possibility that your being with other men diminishes the amount that you require his emotional connection as you could be getting it from others. Also the perceived power imbalance in the relationship, where he may feel insecure about you having a more satisfying sex life than he is...
I would argue that is really is just about sex. Forget the emotions, men simply don't like "their" women having sex with other men. We like to have a monopoly on sex.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:40 PM
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There have been times in my three year journey into polyamory when my emotions don't conform to my thoughts and beliefs. My brain says, "Okay, we have thought this through, and this is how we are going to do things", and when the time comes, my emotions throw a tantrum and scream foul play.

Yes, there have been occasions when I get hung up on my wife having sex with other guys. No, I am not afraid of her finding somebody better and then wanting to leave me. I am not afraid that the sex will be more enjoyable with someone else. Truth is, it's a simple as "hey, you're having sex with someone else. That should be me." That I occasionally have sex with other women while my wife is home alone is beside the point. Congratulations! You've just witnessed the male subconscious at work.

So what do I do? Well, I take a big club and beat the emotions into submission. That's all I can do, because I realized these emotions are pure envy. It really isn't a deeper layer of emotions or issues masquerading as envy.

It becomes a battle of will power, one in which you hope your beliefs come out on top. If you don't, then you start behaving in a way that makes the a hypocrite.

Last edited by nicothoe; 08-09-2011 at 06:43 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM
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I would argue that is really is just about sex. Forget the emotions, men simply don't like "their" women having sex with other men. We like to have a monopoly on sex.
That is YOUR experience, but time and time again we have seen plenty of guys come here who are perfectly fine with their female partners having sex with others, and completely aghast at the thought of any emotional involvement.
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
That is YOUR experience, but time and time again we have seen plenty of guys come here who are perfectly fine with their female partners having sex with others, and completely aghast at the thought of any emotional involvement.
I think I've seen it go equally both ways with both genders, but it's usually a definite either/or. If their ok with the emotional connection, then there's massive drama about the sex or vice versa. So while I don't think the issue is in the least gender specific, Nicothoe is probably correct in the thought process/mentality behind his example.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:12 PM
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I think I've seen it go equally both ways with both genders, but it's usually a definite either/or. If their ok with the emotional connection, then there's massive drama about the sex or vice versa. So while I don't think the issue is in the least gender specific, Nicothoe is probably correct in the thought process/mentality behind his example.
Well, he made a rather blanket statement:
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. . . men simply don't like "their" women having sex with other men. We like to have a monopoly on sex.
My point was to counter that by saying that is not always the case, and I would hesitate to even say it was the majority of cases. Oh my goodness, for a while it seemed that every new guy here was talking about how easy it was for them get into swinging or to pimp out their wives, but not for their SO to fall in love. So, to state it in a way that sounds like, "Let's face it, this is how it is" doesn't really fly. Especially on a poly board, where many people have gotten past so much societal conditioning.
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Last edited by nycindie; 08-10-2011 at 12:23 AM.
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