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  #11  
Old 10-23-2009, 03:01 AM
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As we said, it's another perspective. We're not real fans of the way language has changed over the years to dissolve the real differences in concepts between the two terms.

We stand by our view of things.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2009, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BexyandBen View Post
As we said, it's another perspective. We're not real fans of the way language has changed over the years to dissolve the real differences in concepts between the two terms.

We stand by our view of things.
I'll bite.
Tell me your views so I can understand-because all of it's fairly new to us anyway!
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2009, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BexyandBen View Post
Just to toss in another perspective, our views are very different:

Jealousy is "wanting something that is rightfully yours, but has been taken by another, or has been given to another."

Envy--or coveting--is "wanting something that is not rightfully yours, but you want nonetheless."

Possessiveness is "selfish desire not to share what you have--whether rightfully yours or not--with anyone else."

I'm noticing the running theme of "rightfully yours". Could you define what that means in this context?
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:09 AM
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I'm noticing the running theme of "rightfully yours". Could you define what that means in this context?
If something is "rightfully yours" then it's something that you either "own" or have been "given".

Bex and I have "given" each other our lives, our love, our sexuality, our sensuality, our friendship, etc. wrapped up in a relationship and defined in very specific ways. Either of us can justifiably experience "jealousy" whenever one or the other gives so someone outside our relationship anything that is defined as "ours" within the relationship.

So, for instance, penetration is something that we have defined as requiring a committed relationship. If Ben goes out and starts up a relationship with another woman and gives her penetration, Bex can be legitimately jealous--because we have defined that as something that happens only within a committed relationship that we have both agreed to.

If Ben desires to be with another woman who is married and their marriage relationship does not allow for her to freely give her sexuality to another, then he would be "envious" of her (no "rights" to her).

Envy could also be defined as seeing his buddy's awesome custom Harley and wanting *that specific Harley*. That specific Harley is not Ben's and he has no rights to it whatsoever. So, that would be envy.

If Ben took his buddy's Harley, and his buddy wanted it back, his buddy would "jealous" that Ben had his Harley (presuming that Ben took it unlawfully). If Ben paid his buddy for it and his buddy wanted it back, then his buddy would be envious--because he no longer has rights to it.

In our faith, God has the right to be jealous of any worship of any other thing than Him--because all worship is rightfully His, since he created us to worship Him. He does not demand our entire love and affection and freely gives us the right to love one another (in fact, He commands it). But our worship is His and His alone. Thus, "Our God is a jealous God" implies no sin on His part--because our worship is his right and when given to another, He is rightfully jealous of whatever has stolen what is His right.

Does that help you understand our perspective?

We think it applies quite well to poly relationships because how you define your relationship helps to define whether you are envious (having no right to lay claim to something) or jealous (having every right to lay claim to something).

If you say your spouse is "free to love another"--then you feel those tugs of stress over it, then you're feeling envy, not jealousy. If you have defined it as a particular set of circumstances (only on alternate weekends, and only oral pleasure) and they step beyond those rules (weekdays and/or penetration), then you have the right to be jealous of something that was yours and taken from you.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:46 AM
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I don't know if I agree with all of your views.

BUT

You did a magnificent job of explaining it and I greatly appreciate your explanation! Much food for thought, I am going to tell Maca to read your post!!
Thank you.
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  #16  
Old 10-24-2009, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BexyandBen View Post
As we said, it's another perspective. We're not real fans of the way language has changed over the years to dissolve the real differences in concepts between the two terms.
One of the things I love about language is it's ability to grow and evolve with the societies that it inhabits. Even the biblical definitions you cite have been translated and re-translated from cultures that are very foreign to ours. That's what interpretation is for. It's how we find the way to attach ideas to words in ways that are relevant and can be understood in the context of the society that uses them. So for me, it's only natural that definitions for things such as envy and jealousy evolve to be more relevant to the people that use them

Quote:
Originally Posted by BexyandBen View Post
We think it applies quite well to poly relationships because how you define your relationship helps to define whether you are envious (having no right to lay claim to something) or jealous (having every right to lay claim to something).

For myself, I can't apply the definitions you use to polyamory because I don't view another person or their love as something that I lay claim to or something that is rightfully mine. I think for myself, love falls under the category of grace. Grace is neither deserved or rightfully belongs to anyone. It's simply there to be appreciated and treasured. For me, the love I have for a partner or receive from a partner is not a possession for me to hold, but a grace for me to appreciate every day.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I think for myself, love falls under the category of grace. Grace is neither deserved or rightfully belongs to anyone. It's simply there to be appreciated and treasured. For me, the love I have for a partner or receive from a partner is not a possession for me to hold, but a grace for me to appreciate every day.
That's just cool!...I like it.
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2009, 11:12 PM
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not to only link my threads, but as I know what I have written in the past and what came of it..... some thoughts on jealous and envy.... there is tons of stuff on the definition etc... if you do a search.

mory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698&highlight=jealousy
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2009, 04:25 PM
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I did have a talk with my wife and it when horribly but with now we are OK. I guess it's insecurity. I know that if some other guy steals her away, then she has changed as a person and is no longer the woman I'm in a relationship with.

God love her, though. I know I do.

I like that there is an ongoing conversation about the Jealousy/Possessiveness thing. Makes you think about what is going on or not going on in your relations.

Thanks to everyone.
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  #20  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:26 PM
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Understanding exposure doesnt talk about flash. The good thing about digital photography is you can try it and see, but you do need to know the basics. Have a look at the FAQs in the lighting thread.
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