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  #111  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:18 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is online now
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Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
Let's try a different metaphor. I'm working on taking off a few pounds. I don't go out to a place that's renowned for its desserts, eyeball the dessert cart, hang around for awhile, and then leave. More simply, I just don't go. Why torment myself with what I cannot have?
But you don't stay locked at home for fear of walking in front of a cake store, do you? You could go out with other goals, and roll with it if you meet someone...
It seems like you're trying to sacrifice yourself for something she's likely not to appreciate. First, I'm not sure how she'd know if you went out or not. And secondly, from following the thread it seems to me that if you told her about the sacrifice of yours hoping she'll be thankful, instead she'll get upset that you consider it a sacrifice to begin with.

And really, it all feels like trying to feel sorry for yourself. And I'm not saying your situation is easy, it isn't, but you can still enjoy life a bit. You sound like you want to deny yourself every pleasure for fear that your wife might be upset otherwise. That doesn't seem very healthy.
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  #112  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:24 PM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
But you don't stay locked at home for fear of walking in front of a cake store, do you? You could go out with other goals, and roll with it if you meet someone...
It seems like you're trying to sacrifice yourself for something she's likely not to appreciate. First, I'm not sure how she'd know if you went out or not.
Am I not obligated to tell her, or at least, not to conceal it from her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry
And secondly, from following the thread it seems to me that if you told her about the sacrifice of yours hoping she'll be thankful, instead she'll get upset that you consider it a sacrifice to begin with.
That's insightful. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Tonberry
And really, it all feels like trying to feel sorry for yourself. And I'm not saying your situation is easy, it isn't, but you can still enjoy life a bit. You sound like you want to deny yourself every pleasure for fear that your wife might be upset otherwise. That doesn't seem very healthy.
I'm sure it's not. Spending time alone, it's been frighteningly easy to convince myself that my only choices are the misery of self-repression on the one hand (in order to keep my wife), and losing my marriage on the other (in order to not have to repress myself). I hope that doesn't become true in the end. It's hard to have patience sometimes.
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  #113  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:43 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningTwilight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
But you don't stay locked at home for fear of walking in front of a cake store, do you? You could go out with other goals, and roll with it if you meet someone...
It seems like you're trying to sacrifice yourself for something she's likely not to appreciate. First, I'm not sure how she'd know if you went out or not.
Am I not obligated to tell her, or at least, not to conceal it from her?
I think this is your mind exaggerating everything. I'm sure your wife doesn't expect you to lock yourself in at home and barricade the doors and windows. Honestly, if you went to the drycleaners to pick something up and the girl behind the counter flirted a little with you, do you really feel like now you've gone and done something you need to confess like a sinner? If your wife asks what you did while she was gone, you might mention picking up the drycleaning, or you might not. The clothing will be there in the closet. Do you need to mention every person who looks your way, smiles at you, says hello, gives wink?

Sometimes I work as an independent contractor doing covert business analysis assignments (mystery shopping). I have to go to a business, pose as a customer, and interact with the staff, after which I file a report. One of the most important things as a Shopper is to remain anonymous - you don't want the staff to know you're a Shopper. If they suss you out, there's a chance you won't get paid for the assignment. One can get real paranoid thinking that if an employee looks my way, they've figured me out. You start feeling self-conscious if you look at your watch (we often have to time how long we wait in line or receive certain services), and you begin to think that everyone in the place knows you're a Shopper and your cover's been blown. But the fact is that it's very rare for staff to ID a Shopper. When you start following that paranoid train of thought, it makes you almost want to blurt out to the staff that you're a Shopper because the tension in your mind has become almost too much to bear. But if I do that, I will never work for my client again.

This is kind of how I see what you're going through right now. You've blown some things out of proportion, whether it's guilt, self-pity, impatience, or what-have-you, you think that you can't conduct yourself normally and go out and enjoy everyday interactions with people because you are fearing some sort of connection that your wife will be upset about. You think you must confess to looking at a pretty woman walking by, otherwise it means something bad. It is simply human to be delighted with the encounters of every day, why deprive yourself out of some fearful, paranoid idea that you're really bad for wanting it?
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  #114  
Old 08-07-2011, 07:59 PM
KGodc KGodc is offline
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By asking (it seems like demanding though) her to let you be poly, are you also saying "Do it my way." When you got married, and signed a legal contract, she was under the impression it would be a mono marriage, and now you have asked her to change the game after more than a decade of mono tradition.

If you want to make this work, I agree that you have to make your wife feel loved and appreciated, so she doesn't think it is because she is inadequate for you. As for your son, I can understand how it may be difficult. Sadly, choosing to be poly after so long with mono woman would be considered an irreconcilable difference with logical grounds for divorce on her end.

If you can convince her she is still loved and respected, she may begin to be more open with you, and if you do divorce, it may make the process easier. If she loves you, she should be willing to either let you be poly or divorce you kindly without cutting you off from your son. Seeing a counselor is a great idea, and going together would be even better if it would help the two of you communicate better (mostly so you can get through to her).

This may not be what you wanted to here, but it sounds like you are blackmailing her as much as she is you, and fighting anger with anger only creates pain and resentment. Try love, and lots of it. Ask her what she needs, think about her concerns, and try to find some common ground.

Best of luck,

KGodc
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  #115  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:14 PM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
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Originally Posted by KGodc View Post
By asking (it seems like demanding though) her to let you be poly, are you also saying "Do it my way." When you got married, and signed a legal contract, she was under the impression it would be a mono marriage, and now you have asked her to change the game after more than a decade of mono tradition.
Oh, hell, not this again.

"B-b-but, you PROMISED!" isn't a conversation; it's an attempt to shut down conversation. Yeah, I promised--at 25, I didn't know any better (does anyone at that age?). I thought monogamous marriage was what I was supposed to do; no one ever mentioned that there were other choices.

I have made no demands. I've talked; I've told her what I was thinking and feeling, and what I'd like to be able to do about it. I have not demanded to be able to do anything. I'm still keeping my poly-ness bottled up, with one difference--it's no longer a guilty secret.

And, more on point, I am still keeping my promise. I have asked to renegotiate it, but I have not broken it. I'm such an ogre for doing that--a completely horrible, terrible person who committed the cardinal sin of being honest with his wife.

I suppose I ought to be flayed in the town square for that. It would have been so much better if I'd just cheated in secret, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGodc
If you want to make this work, I agree that you have to make your wife feel loved and appreciated, so she doesn't think it is because she is inadequate for you. As for your son, I can understand how it may be difficult. Sadly, choosing to be poly after so long with mono woman would be considered an irreconcilable difference with logical grounds for divorce on her end.
"Choosing" to be poly? You have no idea what you're talking about. You're walking in late to this conversation, and apparently have either not read the whole thread or have misunderstood it, so I'll not say the unkind things that spring immediately to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGodc
This may not be what you wanted to here, but it sounds like you are blackmailing her as much as she is you,
How the hell do you figure? From where I sit, I've been bending over backwards to give her time and space to process; meanwhile, I've continued to not step a toe out of line, and have neither sought nor consummated any other relationships.

Blackmailing? Really?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

MT
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  #116  
Old 08-12-2011, 10:37 PM
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MT you are sounding like you have a lot of pent up anger and resentment about your situation.

Please don't be angry with me (I haven't read the whole thread either)but maybe you need to open this up to the light of day and share it with your wife. From my own experiences I don't think much movement towards the positive can occur when you are holding resentments. Are you familiar with non-violent communication? This would probably be a good place to start.
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  #117  
Old 08-13-2011, 01:18 AM
MorningTwilight MorningTwilight is offline
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MT you are sounding like you have a lot of pent up anger and resentment about your situation.

Please don't be angry with me (I haven't read the whole thread either)but maybe you need to open this up to the light of day and share it with your wife. From my own experiences I don't think much movement towards the positive can occur when you are holding resentments. Are you familiar with non-violent communication? This would probably be a good place to start.
I am familiar with it, but could stand to read the book, I'm sure.

Yes, there's a lot of resentment, and I've aired a lot of it on this (and on other) threads, as well as at an in-person poly discussion group that I recently started attending (and that has been EXTREMELY helpful).

What riles me at this moment are people who "helpfully" drop in on this thread and, without bothering to read the thread and acquire the context of where I started, where I've been, and where I am now, decide to give me their two cents--oftentimes a quite judgmental two cents. They tell me that I'm doing this or that bad thing to my wife, without bothering to read how I've been holding it in (and continue to hold it in), trying to gauge how much and when to let it out in small enough doses that my wife can process it without packing her bags and walking out. They don't bother to read about how I have grasped desperately for patience, venting here when I run out of it rather than venting at my wife. Nope, I'm the bad guy, going back on a promise, upsetting my wife's world, and I should either shut up or get a divorce, no middle ground.

I can do without that kind of "help."

MT
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  #118  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:22 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Don't worry, hun, I get it. I think you're exercising wonderful self control and really are being as compassionate as possible. *HUG*
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  #119  
Old 08-13-2011, 04:49 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is online now
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I get it too, and you're doing much more than I ever could have, so don't let it get to you
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  #120  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:21 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Admittedly, there may occasionally be a person who find this thread for the first time and will want to respond immediately to the initial post without reading the rest. They're just excited about contributing. Take it with a grain of salt. Those of us who have been following your journey, or at least checking it every now and then, I am sure know you are wrestling with tough stuff and doing the best you can.

I think it's great that you're attending a poly group. Hopefully, it helps you to not feel so alone in what you want.

Keep up the good work and try not to let frustration get the best of you. Physical exercise can help when life feels too constricting.

(((((((( HUGS ))))))))
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