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Old 07-26-2011, 01:12 AM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Default Upheaval as a good thing?

Hi everyone,

There has been some upheaval/possible changes in my relationship world…(straight mono female with straight poly male - D, who has two other straight mono female partners - Ka and Ki).

D and Ka had problems last week. She has admitted jealousy issues, but can't seem to get a handle on them. Over the past couple of months, she's had a "blow-up" every few weeks due to this. D has asked her to leave his house twice because of this. Last Monday, she got upset and left in the middle of the night while he was asleep without telling him and then sent him texts over the next two days which he perceived as antagonistic. At one point last week, he wasn't sure if he wanted to continue the relationship with her. She's had jealousy issues over me, over Ki and over one of D's friends.

I had dinner with the Ka and Ki last Wednesday night and of course, this was the main topic of conversation. She was hurting and not sure what she should do next. I told her that for right now, she shouldn't do anything, except give him the time and space he requested because neither one was really "hearing" the other and anything that was said had the potential to make it worse. She agreed, but then texted him anyway later that night! ::sigh::

D and I spent Friday night and most of Saturday together and he told me that Ka and Ki were coming over Sunday to talk things out. We had discussed the overall relationship, the individual components and the dynamics involved and he had some ideas of things to discuss with them. I didn't want or ask to be there because I thought they needed to talk things out between them and then later, we could all talk. We did meet for dinner last night at a local Mexican restaurant and talk a little, but decided to wait until we were in private to really talk.

One thing that D mentioned was limiting the time that Ka spends with him. Like I'd mentioned in my intro posting, she was staying half the week (or more with him) and the more time she spent with him or at his house when he wasn't there, the more jealous, possessive and borderline obsessive she got over him. This development also addresses one of my struggles: the fact that I only got 1 night a week and Ka got several. Of course, she perceives this as punishment, but it's not. She *is* too focused on him and I believe that is why she's been so jealous/possessive lately. She is giving all her attention to him and isn't getting the same in return and then she gets mad, upset or hurt when he doesn’t act the way he “should” (according to the rules in her head).

So, my question is this: how can I (we) help her see that it's healthier for her, her relationship with D and the overall relationship among the four of us if she's less focused on him and spends less time with him or at his house? And how to get her to see that it's healthy and good for her to have interests and things in her life which have nothing to do with D? He doesn't want nor expect her life to revolve around him, but it has for several months now and that's put stress on him, on her and on all of us. Granted, he allowed her to spend that much time with him or at his house and has only been addressing the blow-ups when they happen, but now, moving forward, how do any of us handle this? Because the issue does effect all 4 of us and has the potential to damage or end his relationship with Ka.

Any insights, suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated!

Piper
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:24 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Sorry to hear things have been so stressed and full of drama for you all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
So, my question is this: how can I (we) help her see that it's healthier for her, her relationship with D and the overall relationship among the four of us if she's less focused on him and spends less time with him or at his house? And how to get her to see that it's healthy and good for her to have interests and things in her life which have nothing to do with D? He doesn't want nor expect her life to revolve around him, but it has for several months now and that's put stress on him, on her and on all of us. Granted, he allowed her to spend that much time with him or at his house and has only been addressing the blow-ups when they happen, but now, moving forward, how do any of us handle this? Because the issue does effect all 4 of us and has the potential to damage or end his relationship with Ka.
Ahh, you already have the answer, grasshopper.

It's always a bit amusing to me how often people come here and post things like, "How do I tell him/her that . . . " and then basically express to the forum everything that needs to be said. Re-read your paragraph. It is direct, clear, and succinct -- and just about everything you could say to her. What else would you possibly need to tell her?
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:24 AM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Sorry to hear things have been so stressed and full of drama for you all.



Ahh, you already have the answer, grasshopper.

It's always a bit amusing to me how often people come here and post things like, "How do I tell him/her that . . . " and then basically express to the forum everything that needs to be said. Re-read your paragraph. It is direct, clear, and succinct -- and just about everything you could say to her. What else would you possibly need to tell her?
Good point! lol

D has already said to her most of what I wrote. And if the chance arises, I'll mention it again.

Guess I shouldn't be borrowing trouble... I just fear that she doesn't believe it's is better for her to focus more on herself. She is thinking of the reduced time as punishment and that she can "earn" her way back into spending more and more time with D and at his house. I say this because she is *still* saying how much she helps him when she's there and that she never expected anything is return. And maybe she didn't - on a conscious level...

Are there any strategies for helping her get to the point where she believes it is better for her and everyone else involved to have her own interests outside of D? Or is it a matter of waiting for her to realize it on her own? If that's the case, how do I keep from wanting to shake some sense into her?!

Thanks!
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:48 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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To her this is all very real and scary. Why should she have sense shaken into her? She is going at her own pace and its slower than the rest of you. I suggest slowing it all down, coming together to wrap her in love and assurrance and allow her to set the pace by setting some boundaries that work for her but assure that she is moving through her fear and jealousy.

I know, easier said than done. Other option is to suggest that she do this work on her own and dump her. Maybe even suggest that she isn't able to acieve poly even if she thinks the concept is one that is right for people. I don't suggest this however. Maybe she should read here? We have lots of great threads.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:21 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Thanks RP for your suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
To her this is all very real and scary. Why should she have sense shaken into her? She is going at her own pace and its slower than the rest of you. I suggest slowing it all down, coming together to wrap her in love and assurrance and allow her to set the pace by setting some boundaries that work for her but assure that she is moving through her fear and jealousy.

I know, easier said than done. Other option is to suggest that she do this work on her own and dump her. Maybe even suggest that she isn't able to acieve poly even if she thinks the concept is one that is right for people. I don't suggest this however. Maybe she should read here? We have lots of great threads.
I agree partly with this. And I know Ki and I have been trying to reassure her and D has too. We do have boundaries that we've all agreed we feel comfortable with and that works for all of us. We discussed some of them last Sunday.

It's probably frustration on my part because until 2 or 3 months ago, Ka seemed quite content with the way things were. She was getting far more time and more sex with D that either Ki or myself. She never understood why that bothered me or Ki because she was "helping" him by cooking and cleaning. Despite the fact that she had more access to him she was still jealous of me and of Ki. And until a couple of weeks ago, she was spending a lot more time with him.

I didn't mention this before but it may shed some light on my frustration. When D and I were talking last weekend, I said I believed that if Ka can't be his only, she wants to be number one. D confirmed that in the past couple of weeks, she has asked him if he loves her as much as me or me as much as her, or who does he love the most. He told her that's not how it worked and asked why she asking that. She told him she wanted to be number one and be the most loved. He told her that was divisive and it wasn't going to be that way.

She does need to move through this at her own pace and we'll all be supportive and loving toward her. Unless she adjusts the mindset of being the "favorite" or most "important", I fear this will always be a struggle for all four of us.

We're not even considering dumping her. We all agree we want this to work because there is love among all 4 of us. I need to be more patient and not worry about what might happen, but focus on what is happening. I'm much happier that way!

Maybe I need to view the relationship among the 4 of us as still new, because even though for the just over 3 years I've been with D, he's only been with the 3 of us, the group relationship has existed for less than a year. And we've only been really "working" at it for a few months. Before that, the relationships that each of us shared with D were separate.

I'll be the first to admit that I liked it that way and I didn't embrace the new relationship structure as quickly as Ka and Ki did. I've wondered if the fact that they jumped right in hasn't backfired and now they (especially Ka) are struggling with the same fears that I had when this all started last November. I took more time to integrate into the group dynamic, but now I feel very comfortable and at home with it and can see the benefits to it because I've already dealt with many of those fears.

Is it possible that Ka, and to a lesser extent Ki, are feeling threatened now that I'm actually "in" the group rather than around the edges? That could explain why as recently as two weeks ago, they were still saying to D that he didn't need a "third" woman, like I was an outsider/interloper, and not part of the family.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses and any other insights are appreciated!
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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My thought is that you are doing all you can. If you are supporting her in her process of working through their issues, and taking care of yourself and attending to your relationship with D... I don't see there's anything else *YOU* can do.

At this point, she really has to do some self-searching and figure out what she wants in life, and from this group. She may find that her wanting to be number one is something she can work through, and may be able to figure out why that need is so important and get it met some other way. Or, she may decide that she can't be in the type of relationship where she isn't number one, or loved the MOST (whatever the heck that means). Either way really she's the only one who can figure that out.

It's great, though, that you all are there for her, that D is being firm, but loving, and that she is getting support and love while she works through this.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:53 PM
rosephase rosephase is offline
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I've been reading your posts and I'm interested in the way D started dating all of you. Ka is the oldest relationship right? When did they start dating? Were they ever monogamous together? You've been dating D for 3 years how long has Ki been in the picture?
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
It's probably frustration on my part because until 2 or 3 months ago, Ka seemed quite content with the way things were. She was getting far more time and more sex with D that either Ki or myself. . . . When D and I were talking last weekend, I said I believed that if Ka can't be his only, she wants to be number one. D confirmed that in the past couple of weeks, she has asked him if he loves her as much as me or me as much as her, or who does he love the most. He told her that's not how it worked and asked why she asking that. She told him she wanted to be number one and be the most loved. He told her that was divisive and it wasn't going to be that way.
I think this is something that needs to be brought up with all four of you present. It's not good that these things are said privately among two of you and then shared privately with another of you, which promotes each of you thinking forming opinions about the others and building defenses. Divisiveness could be avoided if you all come clean together.

Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxxa View Post
It's great, though, that you all are there for her, that D is being firm, but loving, and that she is getting support and love while she works through this.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:13 PM
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I agree that soul searching for all parties is a good idea. Especially her. It is new it seems and I suspect that three loves is a bit too many for him if you are expecting some decent time. I have four loves and the time is divided in such a way that two I see once a month for dates, socially maybe a bit more for one. It's all time management and not a competition. If its not enough for her or any of you then I would suggest filling that time with another partner or something else. Or moving on to somethinmg more on the monogamous side. Poly is great for some people, but time has always been an issue. Loving more has nothing to do with it. If that is her expectation she is shit out of luck... I would wonder what's behind that actually.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:26 AM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosephase View Post
I've been reading your posts and I'm interested in the way D started dating all of you. Ka is the oldest relationship right? When did they start dating? Were they ever monogamous together? You've been dating D for 3 years how long has Ki been in the picture?
Actually, Ki has been in the picture the longest. They dated years ago for a few months in their early 20s and then were apart for a while. They've been seeing each other on and off for about 12-13 years now. Ka has been with D for almost 4 years. He's almost always had multiple relationships and been honest about it.

This is the first time that there's been true interaction among the women he dates and the building of an overall relationship. I think it's what he's always wanted and truly realized it last year when he was so sick.
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