Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Life stories and blogs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-15-2011, 07:44 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Unhappy Callousness

My heart is aching a bit today. I do not know if I just got the wrong impression, but somehow I think that a loving family should not behave like Lin's does. He isn't strongly bonded with every member of his family, but his mother and younger sister are important to him. And as I guessed, the visit came up again. And he told his sister who asked and teased him about it. BUT: her new iPhone was more interesting than what her brother had to tell her (the only reason why she was there was because she wanted her phone software to be set up and installed). The only reason why anyone calls for him in this house is when they need some technical help with things...

Two questions came up: Is she your girlfriend? Does her husband know? The reaction after his explanation of our situation has been an “Uh-hu” and that's it.

Is that just strange from my point of view? He discusses with her the quirks of her slightly narcissistically boyfriend, who tends to overdo his self-adulation from time to time, how she can handle his personality and so on and she doesn't care if he got something going on? He said this would be normal, his family wouldn't be like mine where every little detail and news is discussed together, where get-togethers are done regularly, where birthdays are celebrated with one's folk and big holidays are always a feast one has to celebrate with the rest of the family. I would never react to news my siblings have to tell me in this ignorant and indifferent kind of way.

But there have been times already, when things he told me about the state of things at his home made me wonder. He still lives at home because of all the medical issues and his inability to work at the moment. His other siblings are younger than him, but except the youngest brother (brother, two sisters, Lin) who just finished school the two sisters are working. But he is the only one who has to pay monthly for the food. And even if he does, he tends to be forgotten if there are boyfriends of the sisters visiting who, more than one time already, ate his share. His illness is nothing that can be brought up in a discussion with the family, they just ignore it. I do not really know if they are just unable to cope with it or if they don't want the stress it would mean to deal with it. Again, I can't imagine such a reaction in my family.

I am really sad because of this. He seems so isolated at home and I am too far away to really comfort him and give him a hug and show him that we will change everything in the future, that this isn't what I think what family should be. He claims that he doesn't care and is used to it, but no one can be absolutely unaffected if it's family we are talking about. He covered his feelings with anger and callousness, but it was obvious that he was a bit hurt and disappointed. When he told his mother that he may move in with Sward and me and that he would be 600 kilometers away then, she just nodded and said “Well, we can phone from time to time.” And that was it.

We will wait if this was just the first reaction, if there will come more after it sunk in what this really means, but I am not sanguine of the success concerning their interest in this matter. Sward and I talked about Lin's family situation yesterday evening while lying in bed and I cried a bit because I can't really comprehend how this must feel like for Lin. Sward told me that we will create some wonderful experiences for Lin when he finally moved here, he couldn't stand the thought of such a surrounding either. 'We will form a family that deserves the title' were his words and I started crying a bit more because he was just so sweet that moment.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-17-2011, 08:50 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Default Sleepless nights

Every day seems to bring a new aspect to our life. I really appreciate this special phase we are in right now. Even though there is still this 'certain uncertainty' because everything is so new and demanding in it's own way, we are moving closer together. All three of us in general, me and Sward in an old but refreshing style, which we developed over the years but didn't use over some time up to now. Like recovering an old, beloved object that got dusty in the attic because it stayed there out of sight for a while. Me and Lin finally get the chance to get to know special parts of the other that have been restricted up to now, which is exciting and enriching.

Yesterday we bought a new lounge for the living room with the next visit of Lin in mind. Something where all three of us could lie down together. Sward had been the one who found this couch and we went and bought it the same day before the shop closed. He is so supportive of the new situation, pondering how he could model this new family concept in the best possible way.

We talked about the more official stuff as well. What would happen, if Lin or I were to be hospitalized, would the other be able to have a say in a life or death matter, to be able to pull the plug if needed? Sward and I have already talked about our wishes for a situation where just the body remains and the mind is nowhere to be found anymore … but what about Lin and I in this situation? He changed his last will in my favour years ago, but what about this stuff? (Something I had been trying hard to stomache for months after he told me. He was in really bad shape during that time and wanted to make sure that I was in the picture if the worst case would come true.)

Inspired by this conversation Sward had a really nasty dream this night where he had to decide to let me die. He tends to wake up early in the morning, around 4 or 5 am. He came back to bed at 7, clingy and intimidated because of the shock that this dream left behind. His behavior showed me again, that he would always act according to my wishes, even if it he would suffer because of it.

I know that there is a certain danger of him being left behind in the special situation we are in now and that is the reason why I try to make him speak his mind on every little aspect that comes to my mind. Normally, he tends to be the silent one, dealing with his thoughts all by himself, sacrificing his needs for me. There isn't much that he wouldn't do for me.

But as I see it, I can't model his life for him. I am obviously part of his life in an inseparable way, but I all that I offer are impulses, the outcome has to be decided together. Fortunately he never was the extremely codependent type. There has been a certain level of codependency in our marriage, but not the really unhealthy one. He never lost himself over me, he knows what makes him himself, what his strong points are and what he has to offer in our relationship that makes me swoon over him. I love his level of devotion and commitment, his need to feel connected and his caring nature.

The point that came up last were children. We talked about the next stage in our life for years now and finally felt ready for it. I have never been the 'motherly type' of woman. He has been the one who talked about children and big families since the day we met. He pushed his dreams away because of me, my schooling and studying, even apprenticeship in the early days of our relationship. Right from the start he wanted to be the one to take childcare leave and stay home to look after the kids.

It is still quite some time in the future from now until this will become real. But it is a pressing issue from my point of view, because he as well as Lin share this dream. If, and this IF is a big one, Lin's disease isn't hereditary, he is likely going to have the wish for children. Sward and I planned our first child in a year, maybe two, depending on our financial situation. This is likely to not change even with the changed relationship structure. Both men are really excited because of this, Lin was meant to be the godfather. He has always been with us during all the conversations and family planning, he wasn't my best friend for nothing during all these years

It seems so natural that all this just moves a level up, more commitment, more involvement, more caring and doting and more quality time. He just fits in somehow. Sward said that he wouldn't want the children to just call him Daddy. Lin would be 'Daddy' too. Because not the genes do make a father. I am so with him on this one. It would be awkward to have one child call Sward Daddy and the other Lin. It would complicate everything unnecessarily and it wouldn't do the situation justice as I could imagine it to be now. One never knows, I know, but as far as I am able to appraise the possible situation, the characters of Sward and Lin, these thoughts should hit the nail on the head.

I am really excited and full of expectations and hope for the future. There are no urgent problems to be handled but just thinking about all the possible developments just get's me wriggling with joy.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:08 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Talking The first family is on board

Seems as if I was right in judging the reaction of Lin's family as shallow. It just had to ease down a bit. Lin talked to his mother yesterday and finally there was interest and immediate acceptance even. At least as far as the mother is concerned. She had already made up her mind (I mean, there had been a hickey on Lin's neck after I left) but wasn't sure if I cheated on my husband. Fortunately one of the daily soaps on TV had broached the issue of polyamorous relationships recently, because of this she even knew what was meant by a v-type relationship I usually never watch TV series but this time it came in handy.

She went to such lengths as to invite me to the annually Christmas family get together on Boxing Day (the only meeting that exists in their family). I was really astonished. It was mentioned in a more roundabout way that maybe, it would be better to come alone this year because of some of the older people there who would fall out of their worlds when confronted with my husband as well.

The older sister of the two was the one who was most uncomfortable with the developments, she was concerned about the possible reputation loss if this would be made public. Well, Lin never considered her to be supportive of the idea, therefore we weren't surprised. But she greeted me via web-cam when she came into his room later that evening. We will see if there are problems up ahead.

The youngest brother was left speechless when he heard the news. It collided with his world view big time as it seems. I don't think that he will have problems in the long run, but he seems to have to stomach things first.

Sward contacted the younger sister on FB, sending her a friend request along the lines of: “Hello Lin's sister, this is the husband of the girlfriend of your brother. I wanted to say 'Hi' to nourish our blooming family bonds and lay the foundation for good connections in the future. Greetings, Sward.” The mother and the sister laughed when they read the comment and recognized how strange the description sounded on the first note. But really liked the idea.

Everything went so smooth. Again! I kind of doubt such a good development when it comes to my or Sward's family, but we will see. The coming out there will be much later as plans are now. But I am happy that Lin didn't get into problems because of it and that I will attend the big get-togethers around Christmas with Sward's, Lin's and my family. I just love those occasions
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:06 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,366
Default

Hi there. Just wondering -- how old are all of you? I'm curious because of the emphasis on family you write about.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Default

Ah! Hi NYCindie,

thanks for reading and asking

Ah yes, maybe some descriptions and details will help. I am 28 and will turn 29 in October. Lin's birthday was during the first visit, he is already 29 and Sward turned 30 in February. I don't know if the emphasis on family stuff made us look older or younger, wondering about that at the moment

Family is a big part of my everyday life as well as it is for Sward and Lin. Neither Lin nor I can hold a candle to Sward in this regard, he is the one who wanted to have a 'football team' right from the start when we first talked about children. I will never allow that much, but we feel ready for the start at last.

What mainly got us to wait this long were financial issues that will be solved during the time period we set (1-2 years). I was taking too long to actually find a field of work that was suitable for me, but now I am able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I think it was BlackUnicorn who mentioned (in my first thread) the financial benefits of a household consisting of more than two and we had to admit that this could be a real plus for our future.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:54 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
I don't know if the emphasis on family stuff made us look older or younger, wondering about that at the moment
What struck me was how concerned you are about Lin's family being "on board" (and it sounds like he lives with them?). At least for me, as one gets older, you generally don't give a shit what relatives think about your business. So, I actually thought you all were a bit younger, but 20s makes sense to me, too (I am 51 but have always been very independent and never really cared what my family thought or said about my life -- but that could have to do with growing up in the 60s and 70s).
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

Last edited by nycindie; 07-18-2011 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:16 PM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Default

I am indepentend, was seen as a bit rebelious even at times. But that is my part; if my family would be against me in this matter I wouldn't buckle and stay true to what I believe is right but it would make me sad to lose them one the way. I have always done what seems best and right to me, but I love harmony and if possible I would love to go with the happy family concept than leading the lone wolf lifestyle.

But I would hate to cause problems for Lin or Sward. And Lin's situation is a bit complicated. He had to stay home and therefore has been dependent on them during the last years. Around his early 20s he set up a company that he couldn't keep when his health condition deteriorated and he moved in with them again. This strained his family quite a bit and he hates the actual situation. As I had mentioned his pride, he hates the thought of "I owe them one", staying home as a grown up due to hospital bills that keep devouring his income. Luckily this will change in November if the therapy ends well *keeps her fingers crossed*.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-22-2011, 08:27 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Default What is love?

*No offending intended! – Just the course our discussion developed and what we ended with later on. I know that there are other opinions on this, this is just how it works for me.*

Yes I know, standard question somehow, but surprisingly the answer isn't as standard as I would have thought. After redpepper opened the discussion 'lifestyle vs identity' (thanks for the food for thought) I began to think what this means for me. And I discussed it with Sward and Lin. Our answers were way different than some given in the thread.

Maybe my answer could have been different some month ago if I would have been asked. But after experiencing this poly-mess and -challenge during the last months, I can say that love is a force. A force I do not have control over. I was unable to guide it, or exert the slightest influence on it. And that it can vary in level or degree but not below this point.

In my opinion the matter of choice is a major one here. I can choose how to act on different things, but I can never choose how I feel. Lin and Sward often tease me that my emotions are showing on my face all the time, that I am readable like a book. My emotions do have control over me and I wouldn't be able to make them defer or bend to me just because I want them to.

I know that when I first saw Sward on this day when we returned from Lithuania from a school trip, that there was this 'spark'. That I was interested and later on, that there was this “mine”- thought and I choose to act on my feelings. Maybe you could call this the choice some spoke of. But what about Lin? I felt the spark and I choose to not pursue it. To defend myself against this feelings. Where did it lead to? Obviously my choice was naught. And my answer is clear: you can't choose how you feel.

In favor of the lifestyle I have to admit: Maybe you can choose to live that way. As you can choose to live monogamous. But that doesn't always clarify what you are. A person living monogamy doesn't have to be monogamous. Maybe because there have been relationships before (like serial monogamists or choosing to live that way despite being polyamorous because of a partner who cannot cope otherwise). A person living polyamorous doesn't have to identify as such if there is just the physical aspect to most of his/her partners and no love involved above the level of fondness and sympathy. But I wouldn't call this love, I would call it friendship.

And this is the reason why I have a hard time accepting that 'choosing the poly lifestyle' could work. I think there can be something like a polyamorous lifestyle, but for this one to be a real polyamorous lifestyle, it should require love. Therefore the person living it has the ability to love more than one at a time. The person, waiting for “the one and only” to come along, who is internally monogamous and just going through the options, would choosing this lifestyle mean different levels of fondness and sympathy in a friends with benefits arrangement, waiting for the spark to come along to end it.

Lastly, this would mean: to choose to love. At least as far as my understanding of polyamory is in the picture. And as far as I am concerned: impossible. But I think it is interesting how different opinions on this topic can be. I was really surprised by some of the possibilities. Again: life is funny
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:07 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Default

It has been a great evening yesterday. Lin's grandmother turned 74 and he went with his family to pay her a visit. (Yes, I know, family stuff again ) Main topic during the party? Right, Lin and his married girlfriend. And what I thought to be really priceless was the reaction of the grandmother. She went like “As long as he is happy, everything is fine. By the way, we got this kind of thing far more often when I was younger, I knew some who were living this way.” accompanied by the confirmatory nodding heads of her friends who like to come over for tea some days per week. And that the younger folks nowadays are so buttoned down and strait-laced and what not.

Lin went along and told them about us, I think he was happy to talk freely without having to hide anything. That is one point that worries him for his next visit here, but that's another story. They have a really small village community where he lives and everybody knows him and his family. He is sure that now, after those older ladies are in the picture, everyone will know what is going on. The only person still unsure what to think of the mess is his older sister, the others seem fine with it.

When he came home, we skyped and talked about what happened. And Sward teased him, that the old ladies had been too much for him, because he was obviously a bit squiffy.

Earlier that day Sward and I had looked for possibilities to move him to our region, what will be quite complicated if the presentation at the end of August isn't successful. We will have to rely on social contributions to help him move and that is always a lot of paper work. If we bring our project into being there won't be worries concerning finances for years. Kind of make-or-break situation. We will see how it goes.

Last edited by Phy; 07-23-2011 at 06:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-25-2011, 07:33 PM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 605
Unhappy

After the death of my uncle in April who died of leukemia, my other uncle died yesterday evening because of too many carcinomas (if that is the right term) that spread throughout his body during the last years. His spouse is devastated. She lost her first husband because of the same disease some years ago.

I was really surprised that I took the news so calm and collected when my mother told me. Maybe because the outcome was so clear. I closed this chapter month ago when we were first told how serious his condition was. And it was reassuring that he passed on peacefully during a forced sleep that he wished for. It was the most gentle possibility for him and I was glad that he didn't suffer.

So, we talked a lot and held his spouse while she wept and thought about what to arrange for the funeral. And my mother remembered that Lin tends to draw while listening to tranquil instrumental music pieces. So she asked me if I could ask him to think of a fitting song for the funeral. Now he is just working on a song to cut and edit it to blend in with the mood my mother wished for. I am kind of happy that he is involved despite being this far away, even if it is just such a small thing. And happy because my mother thought of him in this situation.

On the lighter side: During our conversation we kind of broached the topic of my migraine and how I was feeling and I told her that I was on the pill again and it seems to improve my sick headaches quite a bit. (Sward as well as I didn't mention the urgent reason for taking the pill again, obviously ) She was astonished that I was on it again and joked about me being so oblivious that she was sure that Sward had to think for me and look after me to really remember taking it daily. I mentioned that not only Sward was looking out for me, but Lin as well. We synchronized our daily timers because he has to take his medications two times a day and we normally talk to each other during his second intake in the early evening.

That was the point when she looked surprised and laughed: “I don't believe it. Lin has to care for your (meaning Sward's and mine) contraception?! That is priceless. How strange!” Sward and I just smiled and went along. I am really looking forward to tell her what this is all about, but this has to wait for now.

At last: Sward isn't feeling well. He has had back-pain during the last three weeks but never went to see a doctor … as always. I hate this habit of him. He waits and waits some more and when nothing is possible to do about it or endure it any longer, then he thinks about doing something. Because he doesn't want to cause trouble for his fellow workers if he calls in sick. Great for his own health right? Well, he never listens to me when I scold him for it. Typically him kind of. Got this “endure it” mentality. The upshot is that he now can hardly move his lower back and has to see a doctor first thing tomorrow morning. I am worried that he has a slipped disc something along those lines *sigh*.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
children, cohabitation, coming out, communication, couple, family, kids, ldr, lessons, living together, marriage, metamours, mono/poly, moving in, opening a relationship, primary, time management, vee

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:53 PM.