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Old 07-23-2011, 02:02 AM
Guilty2 Guilty2 is offline
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Default Need advice, or encouraging word (long read)

I need some help from you guys and gals. Or encouraging words. If any of this is possible.
Wife and I are involved with another couple. Check my intro post for more details on that. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12404 ) This has been one of the hardest things I have ever had to deal with. I have been thru my full range of emotions weekly for the last two months. I went thru them twice just today. From the feeling like I was on top of the world, to feeling like the waves were crashing in and dragging me out to sea and drowning me. All of this centers around the other woman, A.
Breakdown of us:
Guilty2-me, husband to Guilty, boyfriend (I think??) to A
Guilty-Wife to Guilty2, girlfriend of A and S
A-other woman of this quad, married to S, girlfriend of Guilty and me (I think)
S-other man of this quad, married to A, boyfriend to Guilty, great friend of mine, more like brothers.

A has issues that she either canít or wonít deal with, and I donít know what that is. One minute, she says she loves me, next she acts like I am an acquaintance of hers. (Guilty goes thru this with her too, but for this conversation, I will just talk about me in all this.) We may go three or four days and talk on the phone every day. Then we may go a week and not talk. We text and IM everyday, several times a day in most cases. But that just cant substitute a verbal conversation. Last time I saw her was Sunday afternoon. It is now Friday night. I have spoken to her twice on the phone. Once Tuesday for 4 minutes and 30 seconds. She had a meltdown Wednesday. She has severe back and shoulder problems, which will require surgery. She is always in constant severe pain.She has been going back and forth to doctors so they can poke and prod to decide what to do. She had doc appointment Wednesday. It finally got to her, along with some other issues of hers, and she lost it. She called me to talk about it. Not the first time she has talked to me about some issues and fears of hers before she talked to her husband. I have always been there for her when she needed me. But when I have needed or wanted to talk to her any other time this week, she has always had some excuse why she could not talk. We texted as always, but she kept having reasons she could not talk on the phone. This has been an issue of mine from the beginning, and I have talked to her about it several times.

Month or so ago, her grandmother passed. It was around 1am on a Friday morning. I work night shift. I left work at 7am Friday morning, and drove 2 hours to where she lives to be with her. (Her husband, S drives a truck and is only home every 3 weeks. He was in D.C. when this happened.Got home next day.)She needed me, and I was there, no questions asked. I stayed with her most of the day, then drove 2 hours back home, showered and went to work. No sleep. Guilty left going over there Friday afternoon to stay with her Friday night. I left work Saturday and drove back to her house and stayed with her all Saturday. S got home about the same time as I got there. I picked him up at a truck stop and took him on to the house with me. I spent most of the night with them, trying to be there for her. The visitation was Saturday afternoon. Funeral was Sunday. I went to funeral Sunday, and spent most of Sunday with her. Then drove back home, got 2 hours of sleep and then went to work Sunday night. I figured it up, and that weekend, I went over 3 days with no sleep. None at all. For over three days!!!! Almost 90 hours of being awake. All for her.
I cant even get a phone conversation with her, because she always has something going on to where she cant talk. I donít think I deserve this from her.
I am not asking for a long, drawn out talk everyday, but a good 20 to 30 minute convo every other day or so is not too much to ask, I think. Like I said, she says she loves me and considers both me and Guilty as family. Like the 4 of us are one family. But I donít feel it a lot of times. Not from her. I donít leave family hanging and not talk to them for days at a time because I am ďbusyĒ.

I am at my wits end. I want to walk away from this, but I cant. I have poured my heart and soul into this relationship we are all trying to build, and into her. I have invested too much of me, my time, my life into her and this quad. Guilty has as well as S. A is the one that holds things back and causes most of the drama. (refer to my intro post). We have had to bring her back from meltdowns on several occasions, due to issues she had, but would not talk about until she just started to shut down. Well, now it is my turn. I cant just walk away, cause I love her too damn much. I have feelings for her as I do my own wife. Guilty and I have discussed this a few times. She has same type feelings for S, and he for her. She is the ďwildcardí if you will. One week, or day, she is ok, in love and loves everyone,, the world is happy. Then she regresses. Time and time again. But I still cant walk away. It will hurt not only me, but Guilty, and S. I am sure that A will not allow S to continue talking to Guilty if this quad ends. They talk every day. Guilty is the stable person he needs to be able to talk to, cause A is such an emotional rollercoaster, that he cant talk to her about everything. I donít want to take that away from him or Guilty. I know guilty loves A, and I donít want to take that away either. I donít want to lose her either. I donít want to cause her any more undue stress. I donít want to not be there for her when she needs me. And I know she will need me again at some point. But I donít know what to do. She makes loving her so damn difficult, but I cant quit. I feel like I am headed for a major derailment, but donít know how to stop. I cant abandon ship, I cant ride it down to the bottom of the ocean. Just donít know what to do.

Sorry this is so long. It would take about 6 hours of verbally talking to someone to adequately explain the whole thing. I am trying to cram some of that into this post. So, hopefully yall have an idea of what is going on.

Signed,
Guilty2
Dazed, confused, numb, lost
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2011, 02:39 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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So, basically, you want to break it off because you don't talk to her for a few days? You really think that not talking for five days means she doesn't love you? I'm just not understanding why you need communication to be so frequent. I understand wanting to talk on the phone regularly, but every other day? And it must be a conversation of at least 20 minutes for you to feel like there's something there? Her texting you every day isn't enough to let you know she's thinking of you? And you say you are at your wit's end over this. Hmm. Is there something else underneath all this? It seems a bit extreme or needy to me.
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 07-23-2011 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 03:12 AM
Guilty Guilty is offline
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May I add all 4 of us put the other part of our lives on hold last couple months. Now we are having to try to balance our lives with our quad relationship(s). This is not easy and I know it means from time to time 1 or more of us may not get the time we feel we need and deserve. I'm not trying to down play Guilty2's feelings. He and I just have different views on this that comes from the difference in our personalities. It took me taking time out to stop and think about what i was asking her for and what I know from things she has said recently for me to realize, she's not trying to push me or us away she's just trying to figure out how to manage everything and everyone in her life and manage time for us. She texts a good bit because it let's her communicate with us while trying to do other things like study for her LSAT that's coming up and cook and tend to her son as well as manage other things. No text cant beat hearing her voice but to me its better than no communication at all.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:45 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Some people just don't like to talk on the phone. I'm not saying she shouldn't be honest and say she just doesn't want to, but that doesn't imply she does or doesn't love you. You'd probably do the relationship a lot of good if you just accept her the way she is. It just sounds like you are feeling insecure if you insist she talk to you, so if there are other issues bothering you, maybe you need to figure out what else might be going on.
I don't talk to anybody on the phone for 20-30 minutes a day, no matter how much I love them. (I have neck problems, it's possible that her pain keeps her from wanting to hold the phone, or be tied to carrying even that weight around to chat on speaker phone, or she might get too antsy to sit still while talking on speaker phone, after about 5 minutes I'm about to hang up on whomever I'm talking to.)
She texts, and sees you, and talks to you, maybe you should just appreciate what she does instead of what she doesn't.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:23 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty2 View Post
She has severe back and shoulder problems, which will require surgery. She is always in constant severe pain. . . . Month or so ago, her grandmother passed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty View Post
. . . she's just trying to figure out how to manage everything and everyone in her life and manage time for us. She texts a good bit because it let's her communicate with us while trying to do other things like study for her LSAT that's coming up and cook and tend to her son as well as manage other things.
Goodness! That is a busy person! A wife and mother in a poly relationship, studying for the LSATs, just lost her grandmother, and suffers from back and shoulder pain which needs surgery. Geez, cut the woman some slack! She can't talk to you for not even a week, and you're crying about it? You don't see that as a tad bit selfish on your part? Do you have any idea how stressful and anxiety-provoking it is to prepare for and take the LSATs? And to have all those other things going on? And now her boyfriend is whining about not hearing from her often enough -- if I were her, I'd be backing off a bit from the needy, sulky lover just to deal with these important things going on in my life. She can't take care of your insecurities and herself, man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty2 View Post
. . . the 4 of us are one family. But I don’t feel it a lot of times. Not from her. I don’t leave family hanging and not talk to them for days at a time because I am “busy”.
Wow, and you even have the audacity to put quote marks around the word busy, as if she's bullshitting you or has no right to say she's busy -- when obviously, she is. This is a very condescending attitude to have -- and likely camouflaging some very deep-rooted insecurity and need for reassurance. Yikes, Guilty2, it's time to put on your big boy pants and deal! You're married, she's married with lots on her plate -- it's really not unreasonable to have a few days or longer between phone calls. Why do you think it has to mean something negative? Perhaps you are not occupied enough in your own life with something that gives you satisfaction.


Please note: I'm a New Yorker, and tend to be blunt. All the above has been written in the spirit of tough love. HTH!!!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 07-23-2011 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:26 PM
Jade Jade is offline
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Hehe. You know what, G2? I like you. You're intense, passionate, dedicated, and insecure enough to sabotage yourself without even realizing it. You're a lot like me. We'd get along just fine until we burned each other out with intensity

She loves you and G, but is different from you and G. She has different priorities, different life circumstances, and probably a different outlook. Otherwise you might not be so magically drawn to her. She expresses herself in different ways. Do you love her? Then learn Her. Be patient with her. Give her the space she needs to love you back in a way that she feels comfortable with. You may decide, over time, that it's not enough. If that's the case, it's okay, but it wouldn't be her fault. It would just be incompatibility.

The cool thing about the quad is that you don't have to have an all consuming focus on the other couple. It can be a support system, and sometimes that's all it can be. Lots of life to get in the way of focusing on relationship development. Please be patient. I swear, if there's anything I could change about me in our quad, it would be that I'd lower my expectations... not to give up, but to be realistic and compassionate.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:40 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade View Post
........
She loves you and G, but is different from you and G. She has different priorities, different life circumstances, and probably a different outlook. Otherwise you might not be so magically drawn to her. She expresses herself in different ways. Do you love her? Then learn Her. Be patient with her. Give her the space she needs to love you back in a way that she feels comfortable with. You may decide, over time, that it's not enough. If that's the case, it's okay, but it wouldn't be her fault. It would just be incompatibility.
This was well said.
There's nothing guaranteed to sabotage a relationship better than selfishness and neediness ! Despite what a lot of people think (mho) love isn't about specifications or design and can't be created or maintained that way. It's just something that flows like water - either towards us or away from us.
If you "need" more you may "need" to look elsewhere

GS
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Some people just don't like to talk on the phone.
I don't talk to anybody on the phone for 20-30 minutes a day, no matter how much I love them. (I have neck problems, it's possible that her pain keeps her from wanting to hold the phone, or be tied to carrying even that weight around to chat on speaker phone)
She texts, and sees you, and talks to you, maybe you should just appreciate what she does instead of what she doesn't.
Couldn't have said it better myself!!! I'm the same way. I have a lot of chronic pain from a 4 wheeler accident that I was in 8 years ago that crushed the entire left side of my face (full reconstructive surgery was needed). I just can't handle talking on the phone for that long because it gives me headaches, and if I'm already having a bad pain day, it takes everything I have just to talk a few sentences at a time face to face with my family. So, I tend to chat online through FB or text with the people I love and hold dear to me. It's not because I don't want to hear their voice, it just saves me a lot of pain. Even I can handle a lot of live noise most days, but there's just something about the phone that makes the pain worse or causes it to start up.

Don't take not talking as a sign that she's pushing you away G2. Sometimes, there's a lot more to consider. Accept the communication and love that she's giving you. It may just be what she can handle. Hope all goes well with the surgery and that this solves a lot of her pain problems. For some of us, there's no hope for the pain, we just have to live with it on a daily basis. I really hope that this doesn't end up being the case for her.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:45 PM
Guilty Guilty is offline
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Today has been my day to freak out. I know my freak out stems from fear. I have so many fears in this but probably not the ones most people have. I'm not scared of this hurting my relationship with G2. I'm not afraid of anyone loving another in our quad more. I am afraid that now that i have found the one place I am happiest, that being having G2, S and A in my life, that it may all fall part and I will lose it. These are my own insecurities I know and that is why I am trying hard to deal with them. One of the problems with not talking this week is when things like how I am feeling have come up she has been so busy I cant really talk to her about it. I talk to G2 about it and I talk to S about it but my insecurities relate mostly to her and I want to be able to discuss that with her and haven't been able to.

Its ok though. I have taken some time to be completely alone while she has been busy the last couple of days. I am relearning how to be happy with the free time i have while she is busy. There are things i have neglected around the house and friends I haven't talked with much due to being so caught up in the NRE going on between us. I am getting comfortable and settling back in to my life. A life that was very full before A and S and our quad and is now more full with them. I am taking the time while she is busy to put a little more focus on mine and G2's children also. I am in her life and I know she loves me. I also know that just because she is busy leading the life she has always had and is trying to include us in and can't always stop long enough to call. It does not mean she is pulling away from me or our relationship.

I took a lot of time that I have been needing and did some soul searching and self discovery the last few days. It has been very eye opening for me. I'm glad I now have time to focus on every aspect of my life instead of just focusing on the individual relationships and our overall quad relationship. I am glad that I'm learning how to include A and S in the life I have put so much time and energy into building. Its not separate from them it just now includes them.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:51 AM
Guilty Guilty is offline
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Talked to A tonight for a long while. G2 has been right. A was putting distance between herself and us on purpose. She was having some issues in her marriage with S. She opened up to me finally and we talked. She's dealing eith her personal issues and talking with S about their marriage. Things are more stable now that she and i talked and she realized her distancing was not helping but only making things worse because G2 and I could feel it but not knowing what caused it had us both worried where the relationship was headed. She's still not ready to talk to G2 about all of this but did try to reassure him she is ok now and that they are ok.
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