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  #121  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:19 PM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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Because sex is primal, physical, does not mean that my marrriage may end and is short lived. Because an orgasm releases stress and feels good.

A relationship is not short lived. It does put my marriage and family at risk. And it takes away time from the limited amount of time we have together. And it makes me feel like I am a failure as a husband.

Maybe that sounds like bullshit. But that's what I feel.
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  #122  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:22 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
Because sex is primal, physical, does not mean that my marrriage may end and is short lived. Because an orgasm releases stress and feels good.
True.



Quote:
A relationship is not short lived. It does put my marriage and family at risk. And it takes away time from the limited amount of time we have together. And it makes me feel like I am a failure as a husband.
Not (necessarily) true.



Quote:
Maybe that sounds like bullshit. But that's what I feel.
Valid.
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  #123  
Old 07-18-2011, 09:46 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Wow, these are a good place to start to look at this stuff. But I did not ask those questions for you to answer here, nor to even answer right away, but to ponder them for yourself as you work on healing the relationships you have with your wife and with yourself. Things like this are deeply personal, and deserve careful investigation and reflection, more than one can do in just answering an anonymous person on a message board. It brings up issues surrounding self-esteem, sexuality, intimacy, letting one's guard down, possessiveness, love, expectations, sharing who you are at the core with someone and letting them share who they are. "Who am I? Who is my wife? Who are we together?" and so on.

And this is the nugget:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
A relationship . . . makes me feel like I am a failure as a husband.
Why not take this as a start and continue in your therapy together, is my suggestion.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-18-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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  #124  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:54 PM
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A loving relationship is expansive. It shows depth of caring and respect for others. It shows that there is more love in the world rather them selfishly getting off.
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Last edited by redpepper; 07-27-2011 at 03:39 AM.
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  #125  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:10 AM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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So I am supposed to be happy he loves her because it increases the love in this world? I love her so much that I can let her love someone else? That's how it works? How about people making a commitment and sacrifice so that what you have has value and meaning. Nothing ventured, nothing lost. Every story has at least two sides. Please try and see the other side.
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  #126  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
So I am supposed to be happy he loves her because it increases the love in this world? I love her so much that I can let her love someone else? That's how it works? How about people making a commitment and sacrifice so that what you have has value and meaning. Nothing ventured, nothing lost. Every story has at least two sides. Please try and see the other side.
to the first question; yup. To the second; yup.

How it works is that you give up on thinking of this the way you do... this is not monogamy and the rule book you were taught has been tossed out the window. The values and virtues are somewhat the same but created in such a way that they put the "self" first and others after. Not in a negative sense, as EVERYTHING is geared towards belonging, mutual respect, integrity, empathy/compassion for others and a whole lot more. There is no room, in my belief and from what I have noticed, for co-dependency; merging and folding into ones partners life so that each is completely reliant and dependent on the other. There is only room for autonomy.

Do a tag search and read the "foundations" or "lessons" threads and see what others think of how to make this work with a strong foundation. It does work and people are happy in it. There is lots to learn though.

The sacrifice you speak of comes when that little voice at the bottom of your heart still says that it is committed and still says it loves her. If you have this then you will walk through all this shit to the other side. There is another side. If it fades then you will still walk through it and end up without her, but alive still. You will live through this and you will likely be a better man for it if you choose to be instead of bitter and resentful. That is your choice, but you will carry on regardless.

The meaning and value to all this is that she is unhappy and because you love her you want to help her to become happy again. That is huge meaning and value. The balance is in making sure that you don't sacrifice everything in order for her to do so... that you don't allow her to make you unhealthy by not being firm in your own boundaries.

Monogamy rarely TOUCHES the amount of work that you are embarking on doing, but if you love her and are committed then you will do it. If she loves and is committed to you, then she will too. Right now that is what I would be working on finding out. The house, that is your relationship, is crumbled to the ground right now and I really think you need to find out if there is a reason to start building a new foundation. The old one is rotten and not functioning.

I asked if we could hear her side because I realize there are two.... I have not heard any indication as to whether or not we will be hearing it. I know there are two sides to every story. I have been here a long time.... you are not the first to go through this. Please realize that I also have been through this and this is why I am here.... to pass on what I know.

I completely understand that your world is turned up side down and that you are in pain... I have seen that in my own husbands eyes and HE DID GET THROUGH IT! You can too if you choose it.
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  #127  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
So I am supposed to be happy he loves her because it increases the love in this world? I love her so much that I can let her love someone else? That's how it works?
Whether you're happy he loves her or not isn't neccessary for poly life. That you be accepting of a partner's ability to receive love other than yours is.

And yes, it is possible to love someone so much that they can be free to love others. Think about that for a bit. Think about it without labels--without poly or mono or swinger... Can a person love someone so much that they can let that person love someone else? Well, isn't that the hallmark of actual loving? If you love someone only because they love you back or only because their genitals maintain a operationally safe distance from everyone else's genital, doesn't that mean your love is based on stipulations? Isn't the purest of loves free from such things?

If wifey is a possession over which you have ownership, then her unauthorized distribution of loving property rights would be a contract violation. If wifey is an independent (some may say autonomous) person, then her entering into a partnership with another party doesn't have to mean that your partnership lacks value. She just needs to update her CRM protocols and realign her vision with something more compatable with the expanded venture.
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  #128  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:29 PM
RobertCourage RobertCourage is offline
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Again, I tried to post and lost it. Ahhh! Here's today's update.

I am traveling now and the separation brings strange emotions. We are communicating positively. She is telling me that she feels that we are starting to grow closer together. Thats a good thing. And she is still saying she wants me in her life forever.

I know that she will be using my time away to meet with T. I hope that as she does it helps her happiness grow. I prefer to come home to a happy wife who is ready to give me the love and support I need as I struggle through my emotions.

I am taking it day by day right now. My emotions are going a mile a minute, up and down. But my planning is focused only on today, maybe tomorrow. So for today, I think the best option is to try and make this work. I am not sure what solution will make me truly happy - thats something I need to figure out. But for the moment, the solution that allows me to come home to a happy wife and happy kids is the one I will choose.

I do still feel strong feelings of envy and jeolousy. But I think I woujld have to be a robot to not have those feelings after all this time. I am working though all of these feelings and doing all I can to not get too angry or too depressed. Love is supposed to be uplifting and happy. I desparately want to get there and I hope that with time, I will.
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  #129  
Old 07-19-2011, 06:53 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCourage View Post
Again, I tried to post and lost it. Ahhh! Here's today's update.
If you go back in your browser, it will generally be there. Also, if you're on a private computer/device, you can opt to have the site keep you permanently logged in by checking the "Remember Me" box at login.

I believe the idle timeout is around 30 minutes, and when you're composing a message, that's "idle" time.
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  #130  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:52 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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In the past has your wife generally gotten what she wants..... Things around the house, vacations etc??? Does she not know what's at stake.....could she be playing a very dangerous game of chicken....some people don't learn without loss. Hate to say my wife is like that.


I had similar conversations about what a partnership means.... Love means....I said many times that under her new definition/ explanation it looked more like a room mate type relationship.....not a partnership....respect, like//love one other but free to do...come and go as needed....

I was asked by my wives therapist to come to a few sessions and I know from the facial expression that what I was saying was very different to what was being told to her. So I recommend going and laying out the down side to what's been going on. meaning she goes off has her thing in the process destroys her entire family....which later can't come back from.

Footnote: My wife "NOW" wants her old boring pathetic unsatisfied life back....she want everyone to jump in some time machine or something....
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