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  #81  
Old 01-02-2010, 02:04 AM
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Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Originally Posted by dakid View Post
with my queer background i am used to folk self-identifying and that being given utmost respect. so i guess i am struggling with this need to create distinctions between for example swinging and poly, instead of acceptance that if a person or persons identify their relationship as poly then it is poly. regardless of what their sexual and/or social activities are at the moment.
I was involved with the queer group at my university as part of the executive board. I do understand where you're coming from. Self-identification is an important part of my perspective as well.

There honestly isn't a need to create distinctions. The two communities overlap in many places and there are individuals who identify with both. This push for distinctions seems to stem from a desire by some again to give polyamory some sort of credibility or to avoid "cheapening" it usually due to sex-negative views.

There are a myriad of views such as the one Tristan Taormino expressed about the two in Opening Up.

Susan Wright, spokesperson and founder of the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom, expresses her view in an interview with Kasidie, a swinger magazine. Here is the link:

http://magazine.kasidie.com/2008/10/...-susan-wright/

Quote:
Kasidie: Not to long ago, I ran across a blog post on a polyamory website, where someone had written, “It’s no secret that there has been bad blood between the polyamory and he swinging community for years.” To which I thought, really?! I had no idea! As a swinger I always thought that polys were wonderful… Any swinger I know has had only had positive responses about polys. So I spoke directly to a polyamorist and was told that polys don’t really like swingers because they feel it’s cheapening their lifestyle. Polys are about having multiple emotional relationships. They don’t want to be mistaken as swingers, who they believe are all about meaningless sex, not love. But I don’t really see that the two groups are all that different. At least not in what they want - Tolerance, acceptance and sexual freedom.
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Susan: I agree. I think swinging is basically polyamory. It’s many loves. It’s a subset of polyamory. Swinging tends to be more couple oriented, while polyamory tends to be more individual oriented. That seems to be the way the two communities have fallen apart. I have sometimes heard sentiments like that from poly individuals talking about swinging as if it was just casual sex. But I know plenty of people in the swing lifestyle that have long standing relationships with other people. They get together regularly outside of just sex and have formed very close bonds of friendship. You can’t call that “casual” when you’ve been spending time with someone for 15 years. I think there’s misconceptions the polyamory community has about swingers as much as the mainstream does.
There are those who say there can be polyamory without sex and there are those who say there can be swinging without love. And there are those who are various places in between in perspective and in the forms their relationships take. It is such an amazing thing.

There is merit in accepting the broader multifaceted nature of these communities and of the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
what upsets me is the part where a relationship has to be "lasting" in order to be deemed poly. (lasting how long it seems nobody is willing to say).

i can love and be intimate with someone for just one night or for several years, and i would see that one-night of love as very different to swinging. i have in the past been more of a swinger and have no problem with being seen as one, it just isn't accurate to where i am at now in my interractions with others.

as it happens i do have two ongoing, lasting relationships which i think you would perceive as poly. i also had a five-year fcuk buddy relationship which some might not, but i do - because there was/is love there (just not the romantic kind). i may tomorrow choose to have loving intimate sex with somebody as a one-off, and i would identify that as poly. that's the thing...

x
Remember, others do not define polyamory for you. Others do not validate your relationships. You are the one who defines it for yourself. Who cares if anyone else says "that's not polyamory. You're not in a polyamorous relationship. You're misguided." It becomes a problem when others seek to enforce their views and opinions on others and invalidate their relationships because it does not take the form that theirs does.

Finding others who are on the same wavelength as you is what matters when it comes to forming relationships. Do not doubt yourself.

The configuration you describe is as poly as any other relationship. The freedom to ethically love a you will is beautiful.

~Raven~
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  #82  
Old 01-02-2010, 02:46 AM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Exclamation Moderation Note: Birdcage Laundry

This is a Moderation note to members who may be, or have been affiliated with the other site.

The moderation staff has determined that the airing of laundry from other forums, and continued conflicts arising from disagreements elsewhere does not need to be dragged into this community. We feel they are liable to lead to the threads becoming toxic.

Therefore the main posts dealing with discussing he-said-she-said have been unapproved for now pending decision of if they will be sent back for moderated revision or stricken entirely.

Any questions can be directed to a moderator who will be happy to assist.

We'd appreciate all members involved to find another means to work out their differences. Thank-you for your cooperation in this matter.

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  #83  
Old 01-02-2010, 10:48 PM
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Exclamation Moderation Note: Post Reapproval

The original post has been reapproved with modifications by the original author to remove specific mention of the board and persons involved. Hopefully this is sufficient to allow discussion to continue without further involvement from the moderation staff.

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  #84  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:04 AM
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ImaginaryIllusion thanks for your and YGirl's work on this sensitive topic.
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  #85  
Old 01-03-2010, 10:18 PM
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Quote:

I feel connection first and then look for common ground. I don’t seek out common ground to form that connection.
How do I deal with someone who has very different views than my own?
I accept their opinions and if I feel connection I look for that common ground like a pig looking for truffles…. Redpepper is a major case in point. WOW are we different, but wow are we connected!! There is something in her that is worth all the energy I have to find that common ground. Luckily our energies seem synced even when our opinions often don't The biggest part of that common ground is our energy...our love.

If I don’t feel that connection or sense they intend on persisting on moot points of difference…..I just don’t….I move on. There are way too many people in this world for me to get caught up on trying to connect with one of them unless there is that something about them. I don’t feel the need.
Dear Mono,

I get really moved by your writing. It makes me think of my love and me. He is so different he always knows the right questions to ask and the important issues to adress with people. While I just like people (or not) and can have really nice conversations without addressing the topics that are obviously of importance.

What even more hit me was that my relationship is draining at the moment. We have a lot of fights over minor and big issues. And it seems that our energy is just missing. The energy that was always just there, making connection simple. It seems sometimes our commongrounds is all there is left.

I am not going to leave us there bleeding to death. I want to find out what the drain is and block it. Our differences in communication on one hand, our differences in needs in a relationship on the other (he poly, I mono), and I probably will need some more hands...
It is the connection, it's that enormous love I experience when the energy is flowing and not the commongrounds that makes me want to invest all my time and energy.

Though I must add that commongrounds like ours, including a way of life, mutual enterprise and children is more than enough for most people to do what one can.

While writing this it occurs to me like RedPepper writes it is also me thinking I'm not good enough. That I have to be, communicate like my husband to be "good" and give my everything. So I have to accept that my way of being and communicating is also OK. And also that his way of loving, his needs are also OK. Just acceptance.... It is so simple and difficult at the same time.

Estar

Last edited by NeonKaos; 01-03-2010 at 11:56 PM. Reason: quote formatting
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  #86  
Old 01-04-2010, 12:51 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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crisare i guess if i am upset by some of the posts here (not just yours i should add) it is because i read them as saying that i am not polyamorous and therefore not a part of this community. also because the unspoken message reflects wider society in that it rejects what it can't understand, or what is different to the writers own experience. above all because i see a prejudice against sex that is outside of an established relationship in a particular format.

sex negativity has been historically very dangerous, even fatal, for people i consider allies such as gay men, sexually active women, etc. i fear for myself and others when i see such views continuing, especially within an "alternative" community like this one.

like most people i have a desire to find connections, a community, that i can be part of. i got my hopes up here that i would find somewhat like-minded people (not that i would agree with everybody all the time, but that there would be a certain baseline eg. sex-positive, anti-racist, etc). i was therefore upset to find (or to feel that) there were prejudices amongst folk here on a subject that is so important to me.

most of what i have wanted to say on this subject i think i have said either here or in the thread about differences between poly and slutdom. the discussion on that thread seems to be ongoing and is proving fascinating to me, so i think i will stick to that thread now and not duplicate myself here.

here's to mutual understanding, regardless of the struggle it may take to get there!

x

Last edited by dakid; 03-15-2010 at 10:34 PM.
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  #87  
Old 01-04-2010, 01:09 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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also, strictly speaking a one-night-stand is a relationship between two people who relate to each other for the evening or the night. i realise that's not how the word relationship is usually used, but in terms of dictionary definitions it is correct. they do relate with each other for the period of time that they spend together and therefore it is a relationship albeit a relatively short-lived one.

chemists talk of the relationship between substances, academics talk of the relationship between ideas, the word relationship has many many meanings.

i have a relationship with my bank, it isn't a loving or a sexual one but it is a relationship! my mother has a business relationship with her company partners.

i can love someone that i've known for just one night, i haven't many times and its been a while since it last happened but i have - so therefore i know it is something i am capable of. perhaps you haven't experienced this, perhaps its an alien idea to you or something you could never experience, none of that negates the fact that i have experienced it.

i have also experienced loveless sex, i am not claiming that all sexual experiences are loving, and i do not seek to negate or deny your experiences/your reality. i hope you will afford me the same respect.

x
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  #88  
Old 07-08-2011, 09:11 AM
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Kommander Kommander is offline
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Default How does polyamory work for you?

I am what I have begun describing as "fully polyamorous," there's probably a better term for it, which I will start using once I am made aware of what it is. Essentially, it means that I believe in placing as few restrictions as possible on the formation and development of relationships. While I realize true equality in multiple relationships is difficult, I do my best. I try to avoid using terms like "primary" and "secondary" (which, apparently, I'm not good at), and rather think or relationships as "different." If a partner of mine and I fall into the roles of a "primary," "secondary," or "just friends" arrangement; it is because of the natural development of the relationship, not because of a conscious decision, at least not on my part.

I also don't believe in "romantic love," as it were. "Romance" carries with it expectations and unrealistic ideals that I want no part of. I prefer to see relationships for what they are, not what I would like them to be. Relationships can feel romantic, but I do my best to not let it cloud my judgement. If I did believe in romance, I would probably be mono. So yeah, disillusionment with monogamy is a big part of what got me to this point.

While I've stated I like to keep the restrictions to a minimum, A few are necessary:

Protection must be used. This is just a good idea all-around.

Everything is open for discussion. Even the difficult subjects. Especially the difficult subjects. It doesn't work otherwise.

I am willing to change, but I change for one person and one person alone: myself. If I do something a partner doesn't like, it can be discussed. However, don't make demands.

Anyone I date is my equal. I don't control them, and they don't control me. Despite how things may turn out, everyone is also equal in my eyes. I'm not willing to give one partner priority over others or a higher status. Whoever comes first is the one that needs it most at the time.

Who my partners associate with and what they do is really none of my business. Unless it affects me directly, I don't really need to know. I'd prefer if my partners feel the same. Everyone is entitled to some privacy. I'd like to know, but only if one is willing to share. If another relationship is going to be an ongoing thing, I'd like to meet them at some point, but I can understand if others feel awkward about it, and I'm willing to wait until they're ready.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 07-08-2011 at 12:17 PM. Reason: user request pending merged thread
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  #89  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:03 AM
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clairegoad clairegoad is offline
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The answers to your questions are buried in this category: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5

You realize, of course, that the opinions/rules/comments that someone posts may change--- as they get more experience or different partners.

Keep reading... I know many don't like the primary/secondary/tertiary designations. They are useful. I realize everyone wants to be equal... but Some are more equal than others (thank you, George Orwell).

I am a secondary in a triad. My couple has been together for almost 17 years, married over a decade. They are emotionally, financially, legally and morally tied together. I've known them for about a year, have dated them for 9 months. They've always been poly, so they are far more experienced at this than I am. And frankly, this relationship has been quite emotionally smooth...

"Fully polyamorous?" That almost seems judgmental-- "I'm more polyamorous than you...." I love hearing about the variations in poly. This is a journey, it sounds like you've reached the destination.

You're talking about philosophical poly... which isn't as interesting to me as practical poly. We can sit around and imagine what it would be like...but real life is better.

Last edited by clairegoad; 07-08-2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason: I went back and read the OP's other post...
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  #90  
Old 07-08-2011, 10:44 AM
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Kommander Kommander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post
The answers to your questions are buried in this category: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5
Yes, I had considered that. Thank you though. If it doesn't already exist, I figured a "how this stuff works" summary thread would be helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post
You realize, of course, that the opinions/rules/comments that someone posts may change--- as they get more experience or different partners.
Yes, that is true. However, at any point in time, an individual has some idea of what works for them and what doesn't, even if they've never thought about it much. Everything changes over time, but that in itself does not make one's thoughts at the present moment lack in meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post
Keep reading... I know many don't like the primary/secondary/tertiary designations. They are useful. I realize everyone wants to be equal... but Some are more equal than others (thank you, George Orwell).
Yeah, pretty much. Striving for equality is the most that can be done a lot of times. It's difficult to actually achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post
"Fully polyamorous?" That almost seems judgmental-- "I'm more polyamorous than you...." I love hearing about the variations in poly. This is a journey, it sounds like you've reached the destination.
I don't like the implications of the term either, and it's gone once I think of something better. Maybe "freely polyamorous." More doesn't necessarily mean better. It could be said that those that place more restrictions on loving others than I do are "less polyamorous," but that doesn't mean I'm better than them, or that they're doing it wrong; just that they do it differently. And yeah, it is a journey. I may have reached a destination, but there are many other places to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post
You're talking about philosophical poly... which isn't as interesting to me as practical poly. We can sit around and imagine what it would be like...but real life is better.
There's more to philosophy than the hypothetical. Speculating does play a part, but knowledge, experience, and wisdom play much bigger roles. People tend to use the word "philosophy" to mean "shit I thought up with no basis in reality," but I was using the word in it's "the pursuit of knowledge" capacity. Everything I stated in my initial post, while some of it is speculation on how to avoid past mistakes, is mostly based on experience. Keeping what works and discarding that which does not. In the sense I intended, philosophical polyamory is practical polyamory.

Sorry if any of this came off as argumentative. I was clarifying my meaning, not telling you you're wrong.
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