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  #11  
Old 07-03-2011, 11:12 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Actual, real love is not addictive, though it is enormously precious--precious beyond measure, and infinitely pleasurable.

Romantic attachments can be addictive, but they are not real, actual love when they are addictive. They are pseudo-love, a cheap counterfeit, a poor knock-off.

Real love is entirely liberatory, the very opposite of addiction.

To the extent that a culture's people treat love as scarce, a substance to be guarded and dribbled out in teaspoonfulls, those people will be love-starved and confused about love's true nature -- and thus vulnerable to "love addiction" (which is never love).
I liked this post very much, especially the comment that love is entirely liberatory and thus the opposite of addiction. It's a really good point, considering how many addictions are probably fueled by a deep longing for love that goes unfulfilled.

Your second post about the hungry ghosts went a bit far, however, imo. I feel that there is something good about feeling desire and the challenge to solve the problem it poses. Someone told me recently that what people ultimately long for is to merge with God, the ultimate source of love. Whether you believe this or want to call it "God" or something else, I think the point is that we're always hungry for more love, to go further with love, etc. It is just the nature of life-energy, I think, to want to keep progressing toward greater goodness and love. Certainly you can be grateful and joyful for the love you have and have had, but surely it's also good to go forth and multiply it (to use a cliched expression) and to feel a hunger/desire to do that.
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  #12  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:02 AM
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Your second post about the hungry ghosts went a bit far, however, imo. I feel that there is something good about feeling desire and the challenge to solve the problem it poses.
As do I! Although I'm a "Buddhist" (of some sort)..., a practitioner of the Way of Buddha Dharma, I'm the first to insist that desire is not our enemy. It is our friend on the Way -- provided we're practicing the Way, which celebrates all wholesome desires while warning of the unwholesome ones -- and providing a practice path to transform all desires into wholesomeness.

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Someone told me recently that what people ultimately long for is to merge with God, the ultimate source of love. Whether you believe this or want to call it "God" or something else, I think the point is that we're always hungry for more love, to go further with love, etc. It is just the nature of life-energy, I think, to want to keep progressing toward greater goodness and love. Certainly you can be grateful and joyful for the love you have and have had, but surely it's also good to go forth and multiply it (to use a cliched expression) and to feel a hunger/desire to do that.
I'm a naturalistic and non-theistic mystic. "God," to me, is a problematic concept and word -- because I know that, ultimately, the entire Cosmos is the body of ... well, the unspeakable (about which love is its essence). If there is nothing which is not "God" (ech!) -- the Divine -- then "God" becomes quite a confusing and confused word.

That said, my spiritual life is much influenced by Sufi poetry: Rumi, Kabir, Hafiz.... God, to me, is a sort of concealing metaphor. I'd rather surrender to and awaken into the real world than to fall for God.

Buddhist author, Mark Epstein, has written a delighful and wise book called "Open To Desire,"
http://www.amazon.com/Open-Desire-Em.../dp/1592401082
in which he shows that desire is, indeed, the friend of the practitioner of Dharma--, and any authentic spiritual path. One should never attempt to crush or run from desire. That would be running from or crushing our precious humanity.

Our already whole hearts want to realize their own true nature, as and/or within unselfish desire. If our desires are generous and kind desires, toward ourselves and all others, all of existence, then we can celebrate these desires as the infinite and unending path of neverending awakening. (I don't believe there is an endpoint. "Enlightenment" is what the universe does, unendingly. And each of us are continuous with that, not separate from it.)
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Last edited by River; 07-04-2011 at 12:16 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:24 AM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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I'm a naturalistic and non-theistic mystic. "God," to me, is a problematic concept and word -- because I know that, ultimately, the entire Cosmos is the body of ... well, the unspeakable (about which love is its essence). If there is nothing which is not "God" (ech!) -- the Divine -- then "God" becomes quite a confusing and confused word.
It's good to hear someone struggling with divinity because they believe that there is some truth to be achieved in not simply going along with what someone else(s) have established. Personally, I can embrace atheism, buddhism, and "God" at the same time because they are all parts of the same integrated creative power to me, albeit with different forms of consciousness. I think people get so caught up in the conflict of competing truths that they ignore that truth moves a little further with each moment of enlightenment gained by understanding something new. "God" may be a confusing word because it ultimately refers to the creative power that everything evolves from and through, but creative power itself is a simple core concept, imo. Anyway, I think this is getting off topic maybe, but I have enjoyed the theological exchange.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:38 AM
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Personally, I think adherence to the three historically connected primary monotheistic traditions, with its punative and authoritarian "God," makes authentic spirituality extremely difficult to maneuver. That's why I'm a non-theist, and prefer direct mystical practice and inquiry.

And that's as theological as I will ever get! I'm quite done with it beyond that point.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:26 AM
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The way I see it, folks labelled as "love addicts" are people with a gaping hole in their heart centers. They feel and behave like "hungry ghosts" because they are deeply wounded by not having been properly loved during some crucial moments in their human development. They do have a problem, alright. They are starved, and don't know how to nourish themselves or be nourished by others.
It occurs to me that they are really addicted to their idea of what love is, not love itself.
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2011, 03:31 AM
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It occurs to me that they are really addicted to their idea of what love is, not love itself.
Well, shit... Who among us are not overly attached to our ideas about love? Let these cast the first stone.

Love is an ocean.

Bla, bla, blah....

... Anyway, I suppose us little babies in such vastness require our training wheels. And that's okay. Who wants to drown in "the ocean"?

How tender the Ocean? we ask.

More tender than you can imagine, She replies.




====


Kabir:


I talk to my inner lover,
and I say, why such rush?

We sense that there is some sort of spirit
that loves birds and animals and the ants -
perhaps the same one who gave a radiance to you in your mother's womb.

Is it logical you would be walking around entirely orphaned now?
The truth is you turned away yourself,
And decided to go into the dark alone.

Now you are tangled up in others, and have forgotten what you once knew,
and that's why everything you do has some weird failure in it.

Kabir says:

Friend, hope for the Guest while you are alive.
Jump into experience while you are alive!
Think...and think... while you are alive.
If you don't break your ropes while you're alive,
do you think ghosts will do it after?
The idea that the soul will join with the ecstatic
just because the body is rotten --that is all fantasy.
What is found now is found then.
If you find nothing now,
you will simply end up with an apartment in the City of Death.
If you make love with the divine now, in the next life
you will have the face of satisfied desire.

So plunge into the truth, find out who the Teacher is,
Believe in the Great Sound!

Kabir says this: When the Guest is being searched for,
it is the intensity of the longing for the Guest that does all the work.
Look at me, and you will see a slave of that intensity.
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Last edited by River; 07-04-2011 at 03:47 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:38 AM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Personally, I think adherence to the three historically connected primary monotheistic traditions, with its punative and authoritarian "God," makes authentic spirituality extremely difficult to maneuver. That's why I'm a non-theist, and prefer direct mystical practice and inquiry.

And that's as theological as I will ever get! I'm quite done with it beyond that point.
I seem to be unique among people who have rejected monotheism in that I have been able to re-discover it as a source of insight more meaningful than before I rejected it. Of course it was never pushed on me the way it seems to have been pushed on many people who vehemently reject and resent it.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:58 AM
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There's another thread on this topic:

thread on sex addiction
Did I ever tell you how much I love you? Thanks for this and the many other threads you find that lead people to other versions of the same topic. Warms my heart *sniff* *tear*
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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On the topic of sex addiction I agree with Marty Klein:

http://www.sexed.org/archive/article08.html

Let us not mix up addictions and compulsive behavior. It doesn't do justice to either of the issues or anybody suffering from either of them.
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  #20  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:34 PM
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Did I ever tell you how much I love you? Thanks for this and the many other threads you find that lead people to other versions of the same topic. Warms my heart *sniff* *tear*
Awww, thanks! <runs for tissues> :')
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/
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