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  #111  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:22 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
I think it's unfair for Seamus to expect to be able to control who you talk to or are friends with. He should have a say in who you're banging, but friends? That's too controlling for me. If it was me, I would keep things with the ex strictly platonic in order to maintain a friendship.

Just my two cents.
I understand that totally... he's not like that in general. He's actually been super supportive when I was pursuing W, who I've been interested in for a year and a half or so. He's still supportive about that. It's just this specific guy that he doesn't like. I don't know, maybe I should try and arrange for them to talk on the phone or something, but with one of them not speaking French and the other not speaking English that sounds compromised.

I'm still interested in advice, but I think unless someone gives me a better advice, I'm going to try and give it a few days or a week and bring the subject with Seamus again.
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  #112  
Old 05-26-2011, 09:38 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Tonberry,

Ah, that is much clearer. Sounds like the issue is the D gives Seamus the willies - he doesn't appear from your description to be unhappy about you pursuing men he feels treat you well and are safe. So why does D bother Seamus?

I've found that my wife has much better people radar than I do. I consider it when someone bothers her, even if I don't get the same feeling and if she can't put a finger on why someone feels sketchy to her. Often I go ahead with my interactions with that person but not always.

It's possible that Seamus is overreacting to something from the past, or he just reacts badly to D. It's also possible that he is picking up on something that you've overlooked or glossed over.

Of course, I would agree that Seamus doesn't have the right to pick your friends - and if you think about it and decide that you are comfortable, pick up the phone. I have a few people like D in my life - people who were important to me and we've lost touch - who I would like to run into again someday.
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  #113  
Old 05-28-2011, 08:49 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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It seems to me that you and Seamus have imagined quite a bit about what could happen if you contact D. - from friendship to sex to a relationship. But you don't even know if the number works or if he wants to be in touch with you again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
While I'd be fine with some boundaries about not having sex with him, or not kissing him, or not meeting him at all, the idea of not contacting him when I'm finally in the same country hurts me a bit. I feel like I'll probably regret it if I don't. . . . There is chemistry between us . . .
There was chemistry between you. You don't know if the chemistry would still be there. How long has it been since you've seen him? Since you were in relationship?

Sadness won't kill you. Some people are only meant to be part of our lives for a specified time. Some people are best left as a part of the past. In my experience, reconnecting with old loves is a crap shoot, and often causes a mess. When you have old memories that you hold precious, it becomes hard to stay in the present and see the current situation clearly. Maybe Seamus's intuition is accurate and D. would not be good for you now.

You're back in France and feeling nostalgic. I can understand missing people you knew there, but the turmoil you expressed in your post makes me wonder if contacting D. again would be worth it. It's one thing if you looked up some old friends, and he just happened to be present, and it was impromptu and happened without planning. But you are already placing so much weight (expectation?) on what would happen if you got together, it just seems to me that you're projecting big complications on what's possible, and this is all coming out of a mental/intellectual kind of worrying or ruminating on all this -- rather than a passion or real organic feeling that being in touch with him again is what you want. Even so, I would be cautious if I were you.

This is a new stage of your life. Why not move on from thinking about D. and create new friendships and relationships while there? I know you asked for advice, and so I guess that would be mine, although I'm more inclined to just call it my opinion than advice.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-28-2011 at 09:00 AM.
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  #114  
Old 05-30-2011, 11:40 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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So, I was waiting as I said I would...
And as I was waiting, I was thinking maybe it wasn't so bad. Really, with D I always seem to have had times I couldn't think about anything but contacting him, and then times I couldn't really care less if I was going to see him or not. That's actually part of the reason I don't think we'd work as a relationship.

Anyways, I thought about what nycindie said too. The last time we met was 2008, and the chemistry was still there even though we hadn't been together for 2 years. Now I don't think if it would have disappeared, but does that happen between adult friends? I've had it happen with people I knew as kids, because we grew up and became too different, but in a couple of years in your adult life, is drifting apart that much as common?

I don't really know. Anyways, Sunday night I was talking to Seamus, and I was very tired (due to the time difference I had to stay up until after 2 to get to see him), and my tired is most people's drunk. So I started rambling about how I was sorry I found the phonebook and how I made him sad, and he asked if I had contacted D yet.
I said no because I didn't want to make him sad. He told me I was cute but silly, that he'd get over it and I'd always regret it if I didn't. I said maybe, but maybe if I did contact him I'd also always regret it because I would make him sad, and out of two things I might always regret I'd rather take the thing that didn't make him sad.

I was very tired as I said, I'm not sure if I was speaking from the heart of what, I thought of never contacting him as something so hard that I'd never get over, and then suddenly it was like it was no big deal. It's weird.

Anyway, he said he was glad I cared about his feelings, but that he had only told me it would upset him because he wanted me to know, and not because he wanted to guild trip me and command my actions, and that I should do it "tomorrow" so Monday, which is yesterday here but probably today for a bunch of you.

Today I had a busy day dealing with health stuff (getting registered on health care again, which wasn't too complicated but I still had to go there and file forms) and Seamus was going to be out all morning and some of the afternoon his time, and I didn't expect to see him until I woke up later today (I haven't gone to bed yet).
After I was done dealing with my stuff, I thought of it, so I went to get the phonebook and sent a message ("hey, is it still D's number, this is Tonberry", something like that).
I got an answer a few hours later, and I have to say I was a bit shaky when I clicked to read it. It turns out it's not his number anymore, which was a relief and at the same time a bit of a disappointment I guess.

Seamus came home earlier than I expected so I told him, and he was obviously happy about it.

So that's that. I'm not feeling the urge to contact him anymore, I still think I might at some point, and after the talk I had with Seamus I think I'll go for it without torturing myself over it, but it can wait and I'll see about that later.

Oh, and about the fact that I thought about how things might work already, etc... I over-think stuff, that's how I work. I think of all the different outcomes I can think of and how to deal with each of them. When one of them occurs, it makes me feel more prepared to deal with it, and at the same time I can put things in perspective better when it's a negative outcome because so far it's never been the worst one.
I didn't present all the outcomes in my posts because some wouldn't have been an issue, which might have given the impression I was sure it would go a certain way. I was very aware there were many ways it could go, and I thought of some where we'd see each other and feel we were done, too.
So it's not like I was sure we'd feel the same as before, and both feel it, it just seemed to be the possible outcome that had the most potential for going awry.
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  #115  
Old 06-06-2011, 03:54 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Raga has been doing better lately about talking to me, so we talked for a few minutes a couple of times (through IMs) which is good. It's been over five months now so I'm glad it's progressing.
At the very beginning I was in a weird place, knowing I needed to give him time but wishing we could be friends again right away. After a couple of months I was in a bad place, I felt we'd never be friends again, and pretty much everyone I talked to who also knew him had shunned me so I wasn't really sure how to feel, I thought maybe I had hurt him more than I thought, I thought maybe he thought I had done things on purpose as opposed to doing what I felt was right.
I still though I had been right, but I was hurting in a lot of ways, and felt between a rock (my ex-friends who know thought I was a terrible person, and to the exception of one of them, refused to tell me why) and a hard place (my parents who were told about the break up and seemed to think it meant I magically had forgiven them for how horribly they had treated my husband, but as a result were pretty much the only people offering support, which I felt I had to refuse since that would have been, in my opinion, insulting to Raga).

Now, I wasn't completely alone: one of the common friends I had with Raga was still talking to me and just wanted to be left out of the whole thing, I had two friends in France who supported me, and of course there was Seamus, who stuck to me through the whole thing even though he meant being away from me for so long.

But now, things are looking much better. I completely got over those ex-friends who just blocked/ignored me everywhere they could without a word of explanation (or a question asked to me about things they'd heard to even check if it was true), because, really, if you can't count on your friends to tell it to your face when they think you did something wrong, and then listen to what you have to say about it, they weren't your friends to begin with.
I went back to France, finally (one big reason for the break up, maybe the sparkle that caused it), I got to see the two friends in France who could provide me with support (which they couldn't do much before, mainly due to time difference), and I'm working to get a job. So on my side of things, life is good.

But on top of that, Raga is happier again, and not only does it mean he's talking to me a bit more, and hopefully on his way to be my friend full-time again, but it also makes everything worth it that I had to go through to reach that result. So I'm really happy about that.
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  #116  
Old 06-20-2011, 01:15 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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A few days ago Seamus said something hurtful to me. The details aren't very important, but then he didn't talk to me for a few days. I thought he'd need to breathe and left him alone.

Then tonight he talked to me again, told me what was wrong. I told him what he had said was hurtful, and he said he knew, and had meant for it to be that way.
I didn't say anything at the time, as I was still feeling bad for hurting him in the first place, and hurting him enough that he felt he had to get back to me and hurt me on purpose.

Later on, he told me I should stand up for myself more, and that he had been shitty. I told him that yes, he had been. Anyways, I told him never to hurt me intentionally again.

And then we were good again. This whole thing is just for context though, because it made me think of my relationship with Raga.
With Raga, remember, I told you, I became abusive, he was a victim, etc. The more he took it, the less I respected him or myself, and the more miserable we both were.

But Seamus broke that circle. He didn't let me take it. I mean, sure, it was bad of him to hurt me in the first place, I realise that. But it was bad for me to take it too. It's something I wouldn't go around telling people because I don't want to blame the victim, but I still think if I hadn't stood up for myself, if he hadn't caused me to, I would have ended into another vicious circle.
I realise it's important not to have anything abusive in a relationship. But I also understand we're human beings and sometimes we can be resentful and hurtful. If nobody puts us back in our place, it happens again. It's something you owe to yourself to stand up for yourself, but it's also something you owe to the other person, because when you're disrespecting someone, you lose your self-respect too.

Of course, if you stand up to yourself and the other person takes it the wrong way, or remains abusive, then you need to get out of the situation. I'm talking about less extreme cases.

Anyways. It ended up with each of us respecting each other more rather than less. I know he was hurtful, and I know he did it on purpose, but he also told me to stand for myself, and to tell me he had been wrong.
And that can't have been easy. It's always hard to admit you were wrong even if other tell you so, but it's harder if people are letting you get away with it.
I have to admit that it's something I never did with Raga. Always I expected it to come from him. When it become obvious that he had no self-confidence left, I broke up so he could regain it. I wasn't as strong as Seamus was.
And as for Seamus, he can respect someone who calls him on his mistakes and ask him to apologize and never do it again better than someone who would just take it. As he said, that's the person he fell in love with.

I don't know how interesting it is to anyone else. But to me it was enlightening, because I can see how we were heading towards the same problems I had with Raga, but shifted course, and that's a good thing.
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  #117  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Lots of news here!

First, today is Seamus and my first anniversary. We set it as the 1st of July because we never bothered to write down the actual date. I found naked pics that Raga took of me for Sean dated from the 26th of June, but Raga had been fine with sending naked pics since before we even were an open relationship, so it's not enough to know if we were already dating or not. And honestly I'm pretty sure we were not, I remember sending the pictures to him and I remember he wasn't my boyfriend at the time.
Anyways! First anniversary for the two of us. He's working today and due to the time difference we probably won't see each other much, so we'll celebrate this weekend instead.

Other piece of news: I got a phone call from the welfare agency. Now this requires background because I didn't want to talk about it until it was settled. When I got to France I registered as unemployed in the hope they'd help me find a job. They have only sent one offer my way so far, but they also sent me to the welfare place to get some income in the meantime.
I was hoping I'd find work soon enough not to need it, but it's pretty crazy, I've been applying to anything I could find or think of, from selling shoes to selling burgers, and I didn't get a single interview.
Anyways, the welfare agency said they would need a judge settlement to explain why I didn't get alimony from my husband.

See, French law is pretty strong about family stuff. If for instance any of my brothers had a debt, I'd have to pay it if they can't because we're related. That doesn't apply to giving me an alimony, but being married does.
So the agency thought I was trying to commit fraud, getting my alimony and still welfare on top of it. However with divorce by mutual consent, no alimony is paid to either spouse unless there are children (or rather, because it's mutual consent, the spouses decide on the amount themselves and can set it to zero).
So after emails and phone calls and stuff, I managed to explain that the Canadian equivalent to mutual consent (that doesn't require Raga to fly to France to show up at the courthouse, like the French one does) requires a year separation, and that it's only been six months, but we'd be divorced already otherwise, so the law about him having to support me should apply as though we were divorced already.

They're willing to consider it, if I can send a copy of the separation agreement (which I have) as well as official proof of the Canadian law about needing to have been separated for a year to divorce without fault (which I don't have but I'm hoping to be able to obtain soon. If anyone from Canada knows how I can go around that, it would be greatly appreciated).

So that's a relief. The welfare isn't huge (pays for my half of the rent and bills in social housing meant for just one person), but I don't know what I'd do without it, as Raga kept the Canadian money, and we spent most of the French one getting to Canada in the first place. As it is, even with welfare I'll be a bit more in the hole ever month so I'm keeping my fingers crossed about getting a job.


Speaking of jobs, Sean got a promotion and raise! He's only been at his new job for less than 4 months, so it's pretty amazing (a 10% raise, too, not "just" like 2% or something). The raise will start in August (so, next month) and he's decided to save it up for getting me to the US and later for the wedding. Since my original plan of putting money aside while I'm here seems compromised right now, it's definitely very good. Plus it helps with the fact that his mom (who lives with him) lost her job last month and can't get on full disability yet.

Mmh... I think that's pretty much it. The main stress for me is money right now, what with some debt (oh, yeah, my parents contacting me saying I owe them money, apparently, including some debt in Raga's name) plus lack of a reliable income, but I'm glad that whenever I worked I always put half of it aside, so that I have a tiny bit left right now.

I also contacted Raga, since the separation agreement stated that he would keep the money that's in Canada and I'd keep the money that's in France: way back when we lived in France, I transferred half of my savings to an account in his name because savings accounts that had a lot of interest had a maximum amount of money and mine was barely over, so I split it half and half, thinking this way it could sit for years and gather interest.
But because it's in his name I can't get it back, so I went to the bank to ask what he'd have to do and then emailed him about it.

Money is annoying. I always feel bad complaining about it because it sounds cheap and petty, and I feel bad talking about it when everything is going fine because I know some other people are struggling. But I guess most of my news this time around was about money, and I really wanted to keep you guys up to date with stuff.
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  #118  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:34 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I don't know if showing the French government our government websites is enough, but here's the divorce stuff: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-...e/divorce.html
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  #119  
Old 07-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
I don't know if showing the French government our government websites is enough, but here's the divorce stuff: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-...e/divorce.html
Thanks I'll see if that works for them.
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  #120  
Old 07-02-2011, 03:34 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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I preemptively warned Indigo that if he saw divorce stuff in my browser history, it was NOT for him.
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