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  #291  
Old 07-01-2011, 04:16 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Neither is right, neither is wrong, both are fun.. both can end up with the same results..
Agreed. It is important that each person realize what is right or wrong for themselves personally. Don't let yourself be preassured or talked into casual sex if it's not your thing just because others don't have a problem with it. At the same time, those that really need the sex first in order to even begin to develope a connection should be aware of this about themselves.

Being aware of your own views and needs (no matter how others around you view it) and being able to vocalize this to others is very important, especially with partners or potential partners. Also being aware that our own wants, desires and needs may change over the years or as situations change. Just because we were comfortable with "A" in one situation doesn't mean that will always be the case.
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  #292  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:29 PM
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First, Tonberry, if you had read my post carefully you would see that I fully appreciate that there are occasions where people can actually "make love" (as contrasted with "just having sex" -- aka, "casual sex") outside of relationships which explicitly involve future commitment, or commitment to a long-term relationship. I have even indicated that my own life has been nourished by some such experiences (though this was long ago).

Let me get to the heart of the matter of my personal distaste toward "casual sex".

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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
You still reveal yourself naked, just physically rather than emotionally.
Seen open-heartedly, the human being is a whole, an integrity. It is not divided up into categories, but just has its whole life, just as it is. Language and concepts, when they get the upper hand and are not just tools for communication, can wreck havoc on this fundamental human integrity, our wholeness. When we split ourselves into "just physically" on the one side and "emotionally" on the other, and when we make a habit of doing so, we are damaging our capacity to see and live our own wholeness and that of the other. This is why I think all sex should properly be understood and experienced as "love making" -- which is what we call "sex" when we are fully present in it, with ourselves and with our partner/s.

In a better world, we'd live everything as a celebration and nurturance of this integrity, our wholeness and the wholeness of all others. We'd not split ourselves or the others up into tidy little categories which blind us to our own and their own true nature. Whether we are walking, eating, talking, drinking, writing, breathing, thinking ... whatever we're doing, when we bring our whole selves to these actions, the world is loved and healed. As we are, as each being touched by this is.

I don't think we humans should take lightly the fact that we can do things without whole-heartedness. And if we are not fully in touch with our whole-heartedness, we'd do best to practice awakening it in our lives.

===

One last thought (on edit):

The physical body simply IS the emotional body. It is simply impossible to touch or be touched without having one's emotional life--and even one's spiritual life--touch and be touched. And every human being rightly should be touched ONLY with love and kindness and open-heartedness. It can truly harm a person to be used as a sex toy or sex object ... while not being seen as the divine mystery we all ultimately are, in truth.
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Last edited by River; 07-01-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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  #293  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:44 PM
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"Love takes off masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within." James Baldwin
I love this quote! It is so very true! Thank you!
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  #294  
Old 07-01-2011, 08:28 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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I posted here in early April all excited at how I was going to attempt to try my second ever casual sex relationship - where I thought this guy was nice and I enjoyed his company but I really didn't imagine any romantic feelings happening, and not even sure a friendship would come out of it.

I didn't and don't think I'd consider casual sex relationships not to be poly unless I was going in refusing to let anything happen other than sex. I don't think you have to love all of your partners (whether serious or FWB relationships) in order for them to qualify as poly relationships, just to care about them. Just because it translates as "many loves" doesn't mean you have to in order to be really poly after all. It is also defined as ethical non-monogamy, and even casual sex with somebody you'll never see again falls under that umbrella if it follows your agreements with other partners. Having said that, I have totally contradicted the first sentence of this paragraph - but how I want to be poly excludes many things that can be viewed as poly. All that means is that TO ME I wouldn't consider having sex with somebody I wasn't open to caring about poly, but if somebody else wanted to consider it poly for them, I really shouldn't argue.

I just try to stay aware that everybody has their own ideas of what polyamory is for them. It doesn't make what I think or how I want to live right just because it is what's right for me. It does mean I have a right to choose my own path, and not let people tell me I am wrong because it isn't their path.

I am very glad that I didn't stop myself from attempting to try my definition of casual sex - I really have grown to like this person, and it has been interesting to watch feelings change, and I don't really consider this a casual sex relationship anymore. It is nice to see that everything doesn't have to be so black and white.
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  #295  
Old 07-02-2011, 07:01 PM
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Sometimes I just need to get off, and it helps when there's someone there to do it with. However, no matter how casual a liaison might appear, my feelings are always involved. I feel vulnerable, passionate, insecure, assertive, all those things, whether casual or committed. I may not feel love for someone I fuck casually, but I could, if I tune into their humanity and not just see them as body parts. I can't really see people as just a body anyway. It's definitely not the same kind of love I would feel love with someone I'd invested a relationship with over time, but more like an "I recognize the divine in you" sort of love. And because of that, I think I can enjoy sex for sex's sake, also because sex is a very healing act.

I hope I'm making sense.

The reason swinging doesn't appeal to me is because my idea of what it is tells me I would have to shut off my emotions completely, and I can't do that. It's just too much like what I did at discos in the late 70s - lots of drunk, stoned, anonymous sex and doing things I didn't really want to just to feel a connection. Nowadays I know I can have a connection with someone, respect them, feel my feelings, even if it's a casual fling.

Also, I feel that focusing on sex and casual fucking isn't what poly is, because poly is about love, but that doesn't mean that people who are poly can't enjoy casual sex or that it makes them not poly. It's just that I see the casual sexual liaisons as separate from their loving, polyamorous relationships.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-03-2011 at 03:09 AM.
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  #296  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:40 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I was noting what I saw as a trend in the tone of the conversation on the board in my post. I was not implying that the entire board felt the same way nor was I singling out anyone. I treasure this board for its quality of allowing various points of view to (mostly) graciously mingle - that's a rare thing on the intertubes. And I saw - and yes, I'm speaking for myself, who else would I speak for? - a particular issue where that rare quality was in danger of being smudged. So I pointed it out which resulted in a lot of great quality discussion.

I see casual sex as a point in a continuum that ranges from anonymous, 'bodies-only' sex to utterly sacred, totally emotionally enmeshed sex. Both of those points exist but there is so much in-between! And it's not static, people move between points. People also choose to remain in a set geography. And relationships morph - many of us have experienced where a relationship changed in unexpected ways - from casual to more attached or from platonic to sexual. I've seen this in my relationship with SW which has changed from solely a FWB to something more involved and more attached for both of us. Ariakas' earlier post that some of his meaningful relationships started from a casual hookup is another example.
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  #297  
Old 07-03-2011, 05:55 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent
...a particular issue where that rare quality was in danger of being smudged.
That is a rare quality, and this board is far from immune to destroying it; it's been smudged that way for quite some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent
So I pointed it out which resulted in a lot of great quality discussion.
Always nice when that happens. It's a shame that it's often so hit or miss.
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  #298  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Casual sex is also a fantastic way to meet someone. I picked my wife up in a bar.. my ex gf I picked up at a house party and promptly found a closet. By limiting the possibility, you limit who you might be able to love. Period..

Some people make friend first and become lovers
Some people fuck and then become friends/lovers

Neither is right, neither is wrong, both are fun.. both can end up with the same results..
I met Vanilla through a pre-arranged play date/threesome. I saw her picture beforehand and she didn't even have that luxury . And we are heads over heels in love right now. I think having such positive sexual energy to begin with really put things to motion.

If you sleep with someone on the first date, or arrange to sleep with them beforehand and just have a dinner or a movie before, does that qualify as casual sex if you fully intend to continue seeing them?

I've had one FWB and I later heard even he was not a proper FWB because we cuddled, watched movies and ate at restaurants together, i.e. did regular friend stuff. I was told that a FWB is someone you only call when you want to get laid and never ever stay the night ! So I'm unsure if my approach to FWBs is still counted in as casual sex, and if the latter approach is more correctly termed fuck-buddies.
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  #299  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think this shows how diverse definitions really are and why labeling is often a problem, as much as it is helpful for finding community/like-minded folks.

I think casual sex or "fucking around" is a perfectly fine part of poly relationships if that's how people express their desire and it's enjoyable to them. It's been a positive part of my life and isn't at all meaningless...... I think there's beauty in the diversity of ways people relate. When anything is compulsory or coercive it's a problem. I'm my world, poly isn't anything special or unique, it's just a different way of relating. As someone else posted, what matters most to me is honesty and communication.
Thanks for sharing this. Like you, there is nothing casual about any of my sexual activities anymore. It's been so long ago, I really can't remember when the last time was that I had truly casual sex. I also feel like being able to share your sexual feelings with someone is like kissing and hugging, just on a more intimate level. I'm not certain why society has to be so closed on what seems to be a natural expression of feelings. Seems as though people would want to be able to celebrate their sexual feelings for someone.
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  #300  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Maybe because that is all you talked about? I dunno. I can't remember. Again, not the opinion of everyone here. There are some people that don't think casual sex is poly. So what. Does that mean that they are wrong and those who believe that are right? Noooo, it means that they have a differing opinion. That's it. Everyone who comes here has an opinion, that is what forums are about. no? What are we suppose to say. Sorry that we think differently... why not just investigate and be interested in why... be curious rather than dismissive. We are all in this together no?

This was not necessarily directed at you snow... any one reading who is seemingly judging and on the defensive of those who don't believe casual sex is poly. Its funny how because a person can have a differing opinion they are some how judgemental isn't it?
I have to assume it sounded that way to someone. One thing I've learned about communication is you can send one message and people can receive a completely different meaning.
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