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  #31  
Old 06-29-2011, 03:27 PM
Ignorant Ignorant is offline
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Back in the first year my partenr and I were together and group sex didn't have a pile of bad experiences on my mind, I remember him saying something about there being no such thing as receiving a gay BJ. I asked him about his stance on that. Would he be interested in a guy joining us? He said he'd experimented a bit in his teens, some touching and kissing but not more than that. He and a GF had had a threesome with another guy that didn't include any sex between he and the guy and that it was not a good experience. Very vague about why it had not gone well. For some reason, he had to leave the room to take care of something and they had just gone on without him. How he expressed this was that in theory, he had no problem with homosexual overtones and it would only be fair if I was willing to have group play with antoher woman, that he also be willing to have group play with another guy. I was for it then but he was not. Back then would have been a great time to share his bisexuality because when I first asked if he wanted that I had no issue about him exploring it. My impression of his sexuality was not firm in my mind and since he said he had had some mild experience with it, I thought it likely would be a part of it to some extent.
His excuses were: very rarely attracted to men, knew no one he trusted for that kind of group play, didn't want his last experience repeated.
So it never happened but bad outcomes of group play with women did. As I lost interest in it I also began to feel he was being unfair. No guy he trusted for this? - but despite repeated back outcomes with group play with women - to trust them or not trust them was never a factor to him. This is where I felt a guarded commodity on the subject of reciprocity. It seemed TO HIM men were a threat and women couldn't ever be. I got tired of bad outcomes and the vibe that women were a sexually ineffectual risk to him compared to men.
It was around this time as well that he shared he was into a poly relationship standard. I took that poorly too at first. OH I don't want to have group play with women anymore so you want a relationshop model where you can continue without me? The hedonistic times stopped and we almost split up. I suddenly had more sexual hangups than ever before in my sexual life.

But we worked through them and after a handful of years I was ready to explore poly. Even had a threesome with a woman he was dating that - drum roll - went very poorly.

So I do really feel like I'm getting pushed at each stage of change and wondering what others of my personal comfort boundaries are next. Now its his sexual orientation. Yes I get angry. Jeesh! How much of the mess surrounding group play could have been avoided on road to accepting poly?

I feel like what really gets him going is doing my head in. You like group play? Cool me too! How about group play with a touch of unfair cock blocking due to me hiding my sexuality? No? Not into it anymore? How about I just see other women without you having to participate? No? What if we DADT? No? How about poly so you can have your fairness but not in my face? Sweet! Lets do that then.
I get a couple years of calm and suddenly.....
Oh BTW I'm into dudes and now that you got hangups about group play I want you to awkwardly participate while I show you everything about me I've hidden for years. Doesn't that sound fun? No? THIS IS WHY I HID IT FROM YOU; you don't accept my sexuality! Here is a guilt trip about my past struggles with my sexuality from before I even knew you. Also I have had sex with men and quite liked it but not telling you about it when you would have had less of a struggle with it just wasn't worth it to me.

I do appreciate the less judgmental responses. Its true I am really crap at explaining a situation clearly. Its a big part of the damamge my reactions cause. We have been talking and making good progress. I'm trying to not slow it by resting on what coulda woulda shoulda happened when. The smaller obstacle to this is - heh heh - we seem to have completely different taste in men.
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2011, 04:34 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Ahh, Ignorant, that was a very good summary. I hear that you feel betrayed that you gave him an opening years ago to explain and explore his bisexuality, and he didnt take you up on it. Now, years later, he feels braver and more trusting of you to tell you of his deepest desires and fears.

I applaud your decision to not hang onto resenting that he wasn't completely honest and open with you in the past. You might consider he probably was in a lot of denial to himself, and therefore couldn't be more open with you!

Now, it seems like he is projecting a bit. He is perhaps casting blame on you as a judge, when really, he is afraid of being bi, and judging his own desires as wrong, sinful, risky in our culture.

This is a time of transition for both of you. Keep up the good work talking, be respectful and gentle and let love lead the way.
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  #33  
Old 06-29-2011, 06:38 PM
Ignorant Ignorant is offline
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Yes. When I was willing and he, al the while saying fair would only be fair while taking a pass on any option for a guy in the mix, I never got to the point of imagining what aspects of sex between men I was or wasn't comfortable with. He seemed all feet dragging so I shelved it. No point in dwelling on what didn't seem would happen. No point in seeking out anything, porn or information, surrounding a group play scenario that involved homosexual acts between men. I felt if I did I might become even more interested in it and get even more upset that he wouldn't reciprocate.
Not to mention my gay male friends all telling me the worst position a woman could be in in a relationship is with a "bi" male. They didn't believe in such a thing. Only men who had not accepted their homosexuality yet. He didn't seem willing and my friends were telling me that was a GOOD thing. That pushing for reciprocity in the name of fairness was a risk of opening a can of worms he would never come back from if he had any gay leanings. Like oh oh its so good he won't want you anymore if you do that.

I am getting a better idea of what he is interested in having happen by asking about his bad threesome experience. Why was it bad that they continued without him? Why did he leave the room if he didn't want that to happen? How much of it being bad was about them continuing without him and how much was it about fearing rejection if he tried anything with the guy? If he'd asked and the guy had wanted to as well, what would he have wanted to happen? Some sexy talk about it while I take note of what seems to really turn him on about sex with a man and group play with me and another guy. I still don't really know what is or isn't sexually appealing about it to me either. Im in info gathering mode and numbed for the down the rabbit hole way this has been brought to my attention.

I've made it clear that I am still uncertain about participating and I'm tired of bending to his ever changing interests. He needs to think on it. I agree with the poster who suggested he get comfortable with this solo before asking me to rethink my stance on group play. Is he sure he wants me participating ot is that just about gaining acceptance of others for his sexuality? Besides, I have another relationship where his feelings on the matter do factor in to some extent. He is a bit troubled about to what end group play will effect our association. Will I be dating a third since I don't really get down with the casual sex deal anymore? Does my partner expect him to participate? Neither of them are attracted to each other. My secondary has no bi experience and no urge for it.
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  #34  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:09 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I totally understand when you say you "still don't really know what is or isn't sexually appealing about" seeing your husband with a guy. I think most women in Western society are taught to view male-on-male sex as something... undesirable. I remember when I was in my 20s, my sister told me she was turned on by gay porn and I just found that appalling! Still, a quarter-century later, I am not usually attracted to bisexual men and I don't even really know why. If it is someone I am physically attracted to, if I find out he is bi, some kind of switch goes off inside me and I am automatically not attracted anymore. When that happens, I really have no idea why not. I'm not a homophobe, I just don't find it a turn-on. If it was someone I was in relationship with, I would also need some time to process such a shift in viewing our sex life and, basically, us. But I wouldn't advise listening to your gay male friends about it, LOL.

I applaud you for making the effort not to invest in that "coulda shoulda woulda" line of thinking. The past is gone and today is a different day. Focus on this man you love and be as honest as you can in communicating what's going on without dredging up the past. With love and patience, you will be able to come to a deeper understanding of each other's needs, wants, and desires and be able to make a compromise that satisfies both of you. I am sure of it. The outcome may be radically different from what you ever imagined for yourself or your relationship, but life is meant to be an adventure, isn't it?
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An excellent blog post against hierarchy in polyamory: http://solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-i...short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 06-30-2011 at 01:12 AM.
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